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Topic: Feel Cheated?? (Read 1680 times) |
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floridian
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Quote:
... the 93 million non-farm production and nonsupervisory workers in the U.S. saw their real earnings go up by $15.4 billion between 2000 and 2006. That's half of the Wall Street bonuses paid by just five firms in 2006.
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Brew
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #1 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 12:47pm » |
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If I were a communist, I would feel cheated.
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floridian
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Because the people on Wall Street have been working so hard, but the average American has not?
Being opposed to kleptocracy doesn't make a person a communist.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2007, 12:52pm by floridian » |
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Brew
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #3 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 12:56pm » |
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If I thought there was something unfair about it, and I was one of those who worship the almighty dollar, I'd become one of them. Since I'm not, it doesn't bother me in the least. It's the way capitalism works. Get over it.
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floridian
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You're welcome to believe that these Wall Street bonuses are the result of the financial wizards somehow creating value, not skimming from the workers and common shareholders. And I have some stock in a bridge company you might be interested in -- this stock is set to sky-rocket!!
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JeffB
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #5 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 1:08pm » |
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" It's been my experience that people who have no vices have very little virtues."
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Brew
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #6 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 1:11pm » |
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 me a river.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2007, 1:17pm by Brew » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #7 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 1:13pm » |
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Well afterall, the larger brokerage houses have been establishing offices in the Middle East, where the huge abundance of petro-dollars accumulated that could not be possibly imagined what to do with in the past couple years needed guidance. Bonuses all-around. 
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| « Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2007, 1:14pm by Kevin_M » |
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Paul98
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Funny how I have never really worried if someone else earns more than me or if sombody else won the lottery. If I don't have enough to pay the bills I either spend less or earn more. I think my neighbor can do the same. If he wants the CEO pay can apply for the job.
Nobody said life is fair.
-P.
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floridian
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Ok, if you all think that life is life, and there is no use talking about things we think are wrong, STFU about Ted Kennedy!!
I realize that the right-wing talking points say it is time to bring up Kennedy's past because he is leading opposition to the Presidents Iraq plan. But this is America, and Ted gets relected election after election. If you don't like it, move to Kyrgizistan!
(The fact that someone else wins the lottery doesnt bother me - I understand how it works. If my neighbor works hard and gets a raise or promotion or new job, great for him. But what is happening here is that the upper 1% is taking an ever larger share of the pie, and it has nothing to do with merit or worth or how people actually work. They are simply in a position to do so. Couple that with a tax system that shifts the burden to the 98% in the middle and lower end, and it changing America in a way that is neither inevitable or desirable. )
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| « Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2007, 1:50pm by floridian » |
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Brew
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #10 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 2:10pm » |
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on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:39pm, floridian wrote:| But this is America, and Ted gets relected election after election. If you don't like it, move to Kyrgizistan! |
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The people of Massachusetts get what they deserve. They elect him, so they get to hitch their cart to his ass - uh, horse. Just like the idiots that live here in Wisconsin. They deserve Kohl and Feingold. I didn't vote for any of them, but I believe in the democratic process, so I can either continue to live here and accept the consequences, or I can leave.
And if you don't like the way capitalism works, then either:
a) propose a system that's better,
b) run for office so you can punish evil big business,
c) become a Wall Street big shot so you can share the wealth,
or
d) move to Kyrgizistan.
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Brew
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #11 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 2:31pm » |
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And another thing - don't tell me to STFU about Ted Kennedy. I merely made a statement of indisputable fact:
"All my guns combined have killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car."
Please show me where I am wrong. Once you've determined that you cannot, then you can STFU.
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Mosaicwench
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #12 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 2:35pm » |
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on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:39pm, floridian wrote:| Couple that with a tax system that shifts the burden to the 98% in the middle and lower end, and it changing America in a way that is neither inevitable or desirable. ) |
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Could you provide a source for those figures?
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floridian
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on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:35pm, Mosaicwench wrote:
Could you provide a source for those figures?
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Sure, there are plenty of sources - lemme dig. I did not say that the middle and lower income tax payers shoulder 98% of the burden. What I am saying is that under the tax reforms of the past 6 years, the top 2% got nearly half of the tax cuts (in terms of dollars) and are paying a lower percent, and the burden is being shifted to the other 98%.
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floridian
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on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:10pm, brewcrew wrote:
And if you don't like the way capitalism works, then either:
a) propose a system that's better,
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Sure, although proposing a better system (or reforming the current one, which is all I suggest) requires starting with a discussion of what's wrong today. And the series of Enron-styled heists, pension system failures (today it was Delta Airlines), insider trading and back-dating options to cheat the average investor, and the crisis in health care all provide good starting points. These are all market failures, they disprove the dogmatic belief that the market will always lead to optimal results.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2007, 3:05pm by floridian » |
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Brew
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #15 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 3:01pm » |
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on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:56pm, floridian wrote:| I did not say that the middle and lower income tax payers shoulder 98% of the burden. |
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Heavens, no. We wouldn't want to mislead anyone now...
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floridian
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on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:01pm, brewcrew wrote:
Heavens, no. We wouldn't want to mislead anyone now... |
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Nope. I stand by my statement that the tax burden is being shifted away from the top 1-2% towards the rest of us. And you are unable to disprove that because it is a fact.
Still mad at me because I questioned your science credentials? Waah!
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Brew
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #18 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 3:57pm » |
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on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:13pm, floridian wrote:| Still mad at me because I questioned your science credentials? Waah! |
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My credentials are not even known to you, buddy. It is your socialism that has me concerned. It appears to me that you truly believe in your heart of hearts that life can somehow be equal and fair and just for everyone. In order for that to happen, evil (i.e., greed) must be taken out of the equation. I don't see that happening anytime soon.
The fact remains that the top 1% of earners paid about 37% of federal income taxes and 25% of all federal taxes in 2004. The top 20% of income earners paid about 67% of all federal taxes. By contrast, families in the bottom 40% of income earners (incomes below approximately $36,000) typically paid no federal income tax and received money back from the government. These, too, are facts.
It's your Pollyanna-ish outlook that concerns me. If you would move beyond it and learn to accept that life isn't fair - I mean really accept it, not just pay lip service to it - life would become so much more enjoyable. So what if Wall Street managers get astronomical bonuses? The price they have to pay for those bonuses usually involves the sale of their souls. I'll have no part of it, and as a result, I'm one of the happiest guys I know.
If it's a fight you're looking for, look elsewhere.
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floridian
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on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:57pm, brewcrew wrote:
My credentials are not even known to you, buddy. It is your socialism that has me concerned.
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My socialism? Which socialism is that? Because I oppose a program of tax cuts that benefits the top 1%, I am socialist? Because, like Ben Bernanke at the Federal Reserve Bank, I recognize that concentration of wealth poses problems for the future of this country, you paint me red?? What a joker you are. 
Ultimate and absolute equality ? I agree - its not gonna happen. But we live in a democracy, and we can make policies that favor fairness and equality, that actually make things better. Or we can make policies that do the opposite.
Sure, I could 'really accept' the idea that life is unfair, not do anything about it, and be blissful. By the same respect, maybe we should all accept the idea that life is about sickness and decline, it culminates in death, and rather than look at the problem and try to change things, we should sing 'don't worry, be happy.' No need to get worked up over new treatments for CH to improve things for everyone, lets just ride out the pain and enjoy the PF times??
I'm all for positive thinking. But not your style.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2007, 4:28pm by floridian » |
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JeffB
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #20 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 4:29pm » |
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I was wondering just how long it was gonna take before you were going to look for an argument again, Flo.
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Brew
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #21 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 4:34pm » |
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You are a real piece of work, Flo. Keep fighting. And keep feeling cheated. You've only the lining of your stomach with which to pay.
Shame on me for allowing myself to be engaged by you once again. My bad. I'll try harder to resist next time.
And as hard as it may be to believe, I wish you pain-free days and nights ahead.
Now I believe we are done. Unless you'd like the last word - by all means, be my guest.
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floridian
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on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:29pm, JeffB wrote:| I was wondering just how long it was gonna take before you were going to look for an argument again, Flo. |
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Have I stopped beating my wife? YES! I mean, NO!! I mean ... - people that call Nancy Pelosi a crazy eyed B_tch are merely sharing their opinion, while those who talk about issues are argumentative and spoil it for every one.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2007, 4:51pm by floridian » |
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Cathi04
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #23 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 4:49pm » |
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Isn't it cool that we live in these her United States, where we have the freedom to differ in opinions and not be hung by our thumbs for it!
HUH???????????????????
Now, gentlemen, shake hands, show respect for one another and move the hell on!!
CH is enough pain for one person!
Politically incorrect Cathi
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tanner
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Re: Feel Cheated??
« Reply #24 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 4:54pm » |
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OK, ya ready for a shocker! Brew, Jeff, Pat, you know I love you all but I am pretty firmly with Flo on this one 
Having worked first on the CBOT and later at the Pac Coast Stock Exchange (on an arbitrage desk linked to Ivan Boesky) I have witnessed from "back in the day" what insider info can do for those that have it and to those that don't.
For the last 20+ years until my back injury I worked as an Estate Manager for the Mega Rich (centimillionaires need not apply) and since Linda did the books in each case I am very aware of just how they manage to not pay their fair share of taxes if any at all!
Finally, having lost my socks in investments made in Global Crossing, Enron, and MCI to mention a few I am very pissed !
Now I am poor and humble again and if I could shake these frigging HA's, I could add happy to that! Screw the almighty dollar, but it would be nice to have a future in site.
............Tim
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