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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Need some employment defense wisdom
        
(Message started by: Phil the Desert Rat on Jan 20^th, 2006, 8:07pm)

Title: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by Phil the Desert Rat on Jan 20^th, 2006, 8:07pm

Today, 5 p.m., my supervisor's supervisor's underwear was in a wad about "...all the time Phil has had off..." since January 3. Granted I did miss 7 days of work. This was my first round with these things, and it wasn't until the end of them that I started on the Verap and Cafergot (since changed to Imitrex nasal spray). So as of 5 p.m., I was told that I would attend a meeting with my sup's sup and the head of HR to determine how to handle this time off. Question: should I lie about the great, relaxing, carefree time I had, and not tell them about the fishing trips, the golfing, the thoughtful walks along the beach, the water skiing, and the nonstop orgy in the hotel room?

All cynicism aside, my question is this: have CHs adversely affected any of your employment situations? If so, what sort of backup should I be looking for (legal?). My doctor, the local clinic PA, and my neuro are all writing notes explaining the fact that I have a medical condition that incapacitates me for 24 hours per episode, without divulging what the condition is (HPPA confidentiality requirement). Other than the notes, the Rx's, the pretty pictures of the innards of my skull, and a timeline of the whole miserable experience, I don't know what else to do. And being me, prone to worry about things anyway, I will be on pins and needles all weekend about this.

Any suggestions?

--Phil

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by BarbaraD on Jan 20^th, 2006, 9:08pm

I'd just tell them the truth. You've got CH and have "episodes" periodically and it's a condition that you can't help - there is no known cause and not cure at this time. Out of episodes you're fine and will give 100%, but during episodes, you'll probably miss some work.

does your company have FMLA? Save up your time for the episodes.

I own my own business so my clients have just gotten used to me telling them to go to hell when I get hit.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by Phil the Desert Rat on Jan 20^th, 2006, 9:27pm

Wish I could do the same, Barbara! Already told them the truth...was being cynical about the vacation crap. The CH explanation seemed to satisfy a week ago...don't know what has changed (if anything has).

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by E-Double on Jan 20^th, 2006, 11:27pm

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=knowya;action=display;num=1114467535

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by Linda_Howell on Jan 20^th, 2006, 11:34pm

hmmm. Eric got to you with the link ahead of me. I swear not one of us ever sleeps.....

Quote:

Any suggestions?

Yes........Stop worrying about it. If you have done everything you can, then it is what it will be.

Lighting a candle though anyway....

Linda

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by E-Double on Jan 20^th, 2006, 11:45pm

on 01/20/06 at 23:34:23, Linda_Howell wrote:

Yes........Stop worrying about it. If you have done everything you can, then it is what it will be.

Linda

That is the most helpful suggestion that one can put forth!
:)

Title: I struggled with this for years..
Post by Richr8 on Jan 21^st, 2006, 1:20am

.. and just last week I took a copy of Simon's letter to my boss and he now completely understands and is letting me do whatever I need, to do, that is, telecommute, disability, vacation, whatever. my call., to assit in my recovery. The weight that has been lifted from my shoulders is amazing. I feel truly blessed in this regard. Twenty two years of service has accounted for something. I am glad it went this way, because if it did not , I was going the disability route anyway. I was able to struggle through when I was younger, But i was afraid I wasn't going to make it this time due to my age and conditon.

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by BlueMeanie on Jan 21^st, 2006, 12:23pm

on 01/20/06 at 20:07:31, Phil the Desert Rat wrote:

I have a medical condition that incapacitates me for 24 hours per episode
--Phil

Are you episodic or chronic ? If you're episodic, I'd explain that the condition may only last a few weeks then be gone for a couple years. Try to convince them that once they're gone, you'll be a normal person again.

How long have you been employed there ? If it's been awhile, then explain that you've been a good employee and have not missed until now.

Does the Trex spray work for you ? If it does, explain that prior to finding a med that works, you where in extreme pain and couldn't function, but now you've found a med that only keeps you away for a little while. (Trex shots work the fastest by the way).

JMHO... I'd drop the incapacitated for 24 hours line. That's looking like you'll not be working much.

Hope you get everything resolved and they are understanding. Did you print the letter to employer ? If not let them read it. It's worked great for me so far.

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by marlinsfan on Jan 21^st, 2006, 2:22pm

The ADA (americans with disabilities act) covers migraines, but not clusters. Technically, you are not covered, however the bill was written well before CHs were fully understood. If you get canned, a good lawyer may get you protected under the ADA if he's able to prove that CH's are worse than migraines.

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by maffumatt on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 11:44am

Sounds like a good time to ask if you can have an o2 tank at work.

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by Phil the Desert Rat on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 12:46pm

Well, again, thanks to all of your suggestions. Fortunately, I called every day I was off (missed 6 days of scheduled work time), and kept everyone in the loop. And fortunately, this matter fell to HR to rule on, and not to my boss' boss (he seemed quite upset about "all the time I had missed," though really, it was not that much, ATC).

I did explain the fact that next time, I'll be armed with the appropriate meds to manage this, and so will incur far fewer days off (if any). That was acceptable to HR. I will bring up the O2 tank-at-work (you'd think that in the USA, there would be an official "Bring Your Oxygen Tank To Work Day"...there seems to be a day for everything else!).

Thanks all, and as usual, the end result was better than I had feared. I will do my best to relax, and take it as it comes from here on end.

It's nice to feel human again! PF days, everyone.

--Phil

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by Nosferatu on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 3:19pm

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/1421.htm

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by maffumatt on Jan 24^th, 2006, 5:55pm

on 01/23/06 at 12:46:51, Phil the Desert Rat wrote:

It's nice to feel human again! PF days, everyone.

--Phil

we all know this feeling Phil, glad it worked out for you.
Matt

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by Dave_W on Jan 25^th, 2006, 12:10pm

Good going, all!

I've been lurking for quite a while, just thought I'd throw in a huzzah for this thread.

Pain Free Days!

Old Dave

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by djsound on Jan 25^th, 2006, 10:33pm

Yeah, I remember when I was 22 and working on an assembly line at GM. I couldn't see out of my right eye and my mind was in another dimension, but I never missed work. I just would grind it out. Now I know what it is and I get meds, so it is much easier to take. Plus I don't get them every day - just every year or so. Makes a differencec knowing how normal people live.

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by forgetfulnot on Jan 26^th, 2006, 5:54pm

Don't get the idea that your not going to be under the microscope for a while. If you work for a large Co. you are safer than working for a small Co. If a Co. has less than 50? or so employees all that federal protection doe's not apply. Good Luck!

Lee

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by maffumatt on Jan 26^th, 2006, 8:27pm

An employer is required to make a reasonable accommodation to the known disability of a qualified applicant or employee if it would not impose an "undue hardship" on the operation of the employer's business. Undue hardship is defined as an action requiring significant difficulty or expense when considered in light of factors such as an employer's size, financial resources, and the nature and structure of its operation.

Its hard to disprove "undue harship". If the company has less than 14 employees the law does not apply.

Title I of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA) prohibits employment discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities. The ADA applies to:

* employers with fifteen (15) or more employees

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by Gator on Feb 2^nd, 2006, 11:38pm

The Americans with Disabilities Act may not protect you at all depending on the severity of your clusters. At the time of my termination from Creative Labs, I was getting hit 5 - 8+ times per day. I had no preventative medication and was extremely limited on abortive meds. I had already used much of my FMLA authorized leave due to my son being in an accident which required him to have constant monitoring and assistance. I was placed on medical leave for the remaining period of FMLA and then given a month's leave of absence. When that time was up and I was no better medically, I was terminated. There was simply no "reasonable accomodation" that could be made. The State Employment Office even refused to place me due to my CH.

The courts have ruled that it is not reasonable to expect an employer to put up with a person missing hours per day or weeks/months per year, as is demonstrated in this 2003 court case specifically dealing with Cluster Headaches:

http://law.emory.edu/caselaw/11ca/mar2003/02-12971.opn.html

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by kayarr on Feb 6^th, 2006, 5:18pm

How about pre-employment defense. J. and I have been talking about him getting interviews and since the heart attack he has stayed away from imitrex. Anyone have any advice I can give him on how to do the interviewing process ?

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by Gator on Feb 6^th, 2006, 11:49pm

It is my understanding (I could be wrong) that an employer can't troll for disqualifying medical conditions other than to lay out the job duties and requirements and ask can you do them with or without "reasonable accomodation."

Depending on the job, a heart condition would not preclude a person from being hired, though it may cause problems with insurance due to pre-existing conditions clauses.

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by kayarr on Feb 7^th, 2006, 9:20am

Thank you for the heart answer. What I was meaning was he is wondering how to say in the interview "excuse me while I fix my head"? He is chronic and the Imitrex would give him about 3-4 hours of sure PF time so he could go on an airplane or and interview or go to the movies (which always was a trigger btw)

Can you think of an answer to leaving an interview?
His normal postition is in Production Supervision.

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 7^th, 2006, 9:55am

on 02/07/06 at 09:20:01, kayarr wrote:

Okay how about:

"Excuse me fellas, do you see it in my eye?, it's a phillips head screwdriver, can you help me pull it out?"

"Pardon me guys, I believe that Satan is clutching the inside of my eyeball and I need a little breather"

"Please excuse me I noticed a really excellent wall in the men's room that I'd like to go bash my head against.. you mind?"

"You know, sometimes they're like kind of funny, you see this? the way my eye gets all droopy like a basset hound. Isn't that hilarious?"

"Did it suddenly get excruciating in here? Or is it just me?"

honestly, honesty is always the best course. If they don't understand in the interview, they're not gonna understand later.

Scott

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by kayarr on Feb 7^th, 2006, 10:09am

Scott,

That is what I said (not quite so creative though) He seems to think that there is no way to get a management job with initial disclosure. I think he feels between that and being over 50 now he has less of a chance. Sounds to me more and more like I need to be doing More esteem building.

(excruitiating in here.....)

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 7^th, 2006, 10:25am

kayarr,

there's nothing wrong with the feeling of facing challenging job prospects. perspective can help (and is awfully hard to maintain). So I'll try and offer a few examples. Let's say I'm looking at someone who is 50 versus someone who is 28. The 28 year old has told me that he has 2 kids (ages 1 and 4). The 50 year old may miss a few days due to CH, of which he will communicate clearly and maturely to me, and probably call in to make sure all is going well when he is out. The 28 year old will likely miss as many days, things will pop up at the last minute and things will be less likely to be as smooth because of daycare situations, sick kids, and all that. Who's more beneficial to me as a production supervisor? I won't answer, but my point is that no matter who you are you can create a case that you bring strengths that outweigh any potential downside. Just as your downsaide can be minimized by over compensating with the strengths.

(Also, regarding my previous post - apologies to those feel it is blasphemous to portray images of CH in an unflattering light or in cartoons ;) ---

Scott

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by kayarr on Feb 7^th, 2006, 10:42am

I agree with you! That is exactly what I will tell him. Hope you don't mind me using your material.

It has been very hard for him to keep things in perspective lately. It bugs him that I am the only one working.

Thanks!
Kimberly

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by Dragnlance on Feb 10^th, 2006, 9:10pm

I printed off "Simon's Letter" and gave it to my boss, his boss and his boss above him. All came to my desk and apologized for not understanding. Yesterday my boss's boss called me in his office and asked what I knew of FMLA, and stated that he would get me some answers.

My suggestion, Print off Simon's Letter and also the front page of CH.com. Watch the blood drain from their faces as they read.
It worked for me, and I hope it works for you
Dragnlance

Title: Re: Need some employment defense wisdom
Post by pierreboni on Feb 11^th, 2006, 8:25am

Sadly, there is little or no understanding from people in general and employers in particular. Our suffering is associated with weakness and slacking off. I remember making superhuman efforts to go to work and perform during my first bout, before I actually had CH diagnosed. My employer's suspicion fed off of my own feelings of guilt and the situation deteriorated unitl I left the company.
The second time at a different job, I was actually amazed. After a new series began, I sheepishly went to my boss and told him, "you know, I have this condition called facial neuralgia...". I usually find that it's better to call it that. I first was diagnosed in France where CHs are called "algie vasculaire de la face". When you tell people you have cluster headeaches, they only hear the "headaches" part and become closed off to any explanation. In any case, I was amazed to hear my boss reply, "oh, I know about that. It's terrible..."
My advice, if it can help, is to be as straightforward with your employers as possible. Learn as much as you can about the condition (biomechanisms, prophylactic and curative treatments) and keep your employers abreast of what is going on. Keep a journal of your bouts and the treatment with a timeline: "7 AM: took Prednisone reduced dosage, no bouts today", or "4 AM: wake-up bout, took Imitrex nasal, pain relief in 15 minutes". This will help you forecast your bouts and help your doctor in determining the best remedies for you.
Don't expect, people at your job or elsewhere to be as understanding as the people on this board. YOu do have a cross to carry. Good luck, it's a bitch.