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Topic: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ? (Read 1345 times) |
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mudplugga
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Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« on: Feb 5th, 2004, 7:06pm » |
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This might be a wild card, but I'm going to try it.
I have a slight suspicion that my CH could be connected to psychological Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorders and depression.
Between the ages of 11 and 15 I was sexually abused by a gang of pedophiles. It was discovered and then covered up at the boarding school I went to.
There's no surprise that it screwed me up, and it's taken me 'till now ( 50 yo ) to get it straight in my head.
I told nobody until about it 4 or 5years ago and since then I've been in constant therapy.
When I was in my early 20's I developed chronic ch, and had on average 2 daily for about an hour a time, and this continued untill about 7 or 8 years back when it became periodic.
The link is - at about that time I found a new way to deal with the abuse crap that I was bottling up. It was a dysfunctional way of dealing with it and not one I'd reccomend, but basically I found a way to deal with my problems by 'acting out' ( dysfunctional behaviours ) instead of 'actIng in ( bottling it up )
Perhaps that eased the stress / depression that I was unknowingly living with. ( and my wife and others that know me say that I was that way, with hindsight - but I didn't know any different )
So, when I dealt with it the right way and got therapy, the stress / depression lifted for the right reasons.
And about that time the clusters became short and mild.
But this year I have a pile of crap way out of my control, family shite, ageing parents, my job's changing drastically and some other stuff.
Bingo, it's stress and depression time - and I'm having the worst cluster ever, with the longest and most severe attacks I can remember. In the last 48 hours I've had about 20 hours of ch, and about 6 hours of that has been howling at the moon crazy time !
Strangely Monday nights seem free of ch, but Mondays I see my shrink.
The cluster started before Christmas.
This might all be coincidence, but another Survivor friend of mine who has ch has checked his diaries, and he reports pretty much the same effect. The depressed and stressed times are the worst for his ch.
Does this ring anyones bells ?
I'm not linking it to childhood sexual abuse ( CSA ) but to the underlying stress / depression / PTSD and OCD that went unnoticed by me.
Thanks
Dave
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t_h_b
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 5th, 2004, 7:13pm » |
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Yeah, stress and depression exacerbate CH and CH causes stress and depression. It's an awful cycle and when you're in it it's hard to fight the clusters. It really sucks. Somehow you have to find the inner strength to make the effort to get proper treatment and the right combo of meds to break the loop. Good luck--I hope you can get a grip on these things soon.
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Cerberus
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 5th, 2004, 8:21pm » |
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Oh yeah,
I am being treated for all three depression, stress , and CH definately a link betwixt the three, but no one is for certain just exactly what that means.......
For me, when the stress is released the CH hits, so far that has been the status quo, the depression was before I knew what CH was so who knows, but, there is definately a connection because I get reaaaaal "one track minded" when in cycle. Basically all I do is worry about CH related daily events: Do I have my meds?, Do I have my O2? When is the next hit coming, etc...
There is a link in the archives somewhere about the University of Iowa doing some sort of study on the effects of CH and Anxiety and other stuff in the archives as well regarding this...
Anyone?
Ramon
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Callico
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 6th, 2004, 12:02am » |
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I know ther is linkage here, but I'm not smart or kowledgeable enough to put it together. I know that during times of stress I am basically pain free, but when the stress bleeds off I get nailed. I have suffered from depression, but usually it would follow a cycle rather than precede it. Now that I am chronic I deal with it on a periodic basis, and have times during the day that I deal with it after an attack.
Jerry
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don
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #4 on: Feb 6th, 2004, 10:41am » |
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I have found that it is not the stress that triggers but the anger and frustration attached to the stress.
I have learned that if I can eliminate the anger and frustration as a reaction to whatever is causing the stress then I have less chance of being hit.
Still stressed, but accepting the situation for what it is.
I have a good technique for releasing the anger and frustration. I go to Weymouth and fart in Jonny's recliner. AHHHHHH !
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| « Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2004, 10:43am by don » |
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mudplugga
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 6th, 2004, 11:05am » |
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Ramon & Jerry
This is interesting, it's one of those things I hadn't really pieced together - but maybe this is to be the way mine are occuring.
Quote -
For me, when the stress is released the CH hits,
I know that during times of stress I am basically pain free, but when the stress bleeds off I get nailed.
I had some terrible crap to deal with end of November - early December and was having major panic attacks and depression.
Then after the holiday I saw my shrink and felt a whole lot better, really good in fact.
Untill the ch came back !
I'll have a look for the Iowa stuff, and thanks for the replies.
Dave
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| « Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2004, 11:12am by mudplugga » |
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floridian
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 11th, 2004, 12:41pm » |
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Quote:| I know that during times of stress I am basically pain free, but when the stress bleeds off I get nailed. |
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Under stress, we produce alot more cortisol/cortisone. Similar to the prednisone that is sometimes prescribed to help clusters. Remove the stress, remove the cortisol. Inflammation increases. The immune system gears up.
Adrenaline contracts blood vessels. Move from stress to slack, and your adrenaline levels decrease. Blood vessels expand. Trigeminal nerve gets pinched.
Other stress related chemicals that don't come to mind immediately probably have the same effect.
Of course, this is way simplified. Lots of other things going on inside to cause clusters.
Is stress a good preventive for clusters? Adrenaline and cortisone have pretty nasty side effects when you have too much for too long. Supressing the immune system with cortisone increases infection and risk of cancer. Adrenaline raises blood pressure and can wear down the heart. Got to be a better way - still searching.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2004, 12:45pm by floridian » |
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Jayne
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 12th, 2004, 6:09pm » |
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My old doc who was a chronic CH, said that he thought most clusterheads had suffered some sort of abuse, some just don't remember it.
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pubgirl
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 12th, 2004, 8:07pm » |
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Wonder what the hell he based that theory on?
Not knocking you Jayne or the others who have posted here, but I get worried by any suggestion that any element of causation is psychological rather than physical (and I don't mean attack triggers, I mean causation of the condition itself)
I worry that this just confirms the minority view that we are all disturbed, drug seeking and damaged.
W
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Bob_Johnson
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 13th, 2004, 11:01am » |
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It's so good to read that you have found your therapy helpful! But the question about the link between cluster and depression is one of those issues which is so hard to sort out.
Recent research is suggesting that PTSD, and perhaps other chronic emotional issues, result in enduring changes in brain structure. So, at least in theory, there may be a linkage--but final conclusions are likely some years off.
If you want to struggle with one complex paper on this issue go to: www.medscape.com. (Need to register but free.) Go to search box, select "search medscape", then enter, "cluster headache", look for article, "Migraine, cluster...and mood disorders." It's a slog to read but it may give some information of help.
(If you have problems, send me an instant message: icon to left of this message.)
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Bob Johnson
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floridian
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 13th, 2004, 11:45am » |
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Quote:| My old doc who was a chronic CH, said that he thought most clusterheads had suffered some sort of abuse, some just don't remember it. |
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Not buying that idea. Abuse is a real problem. It causes emotional problems and affects the body. But I haven't seen any evidence that child abuse is a cause of CH. Someone who testifies that they were abused should be taken seriously, and their allegations should be investigated. But assuming that most CHers have been abused? Show me the evidence. What about most people with migraines? Most people with chronic tension headache?
No memories of physical, sexual or emotional abuse. Some hard experiences that I do remember (death of grandmother, sliding down a hill on my face), but who hasn't experienced physical and emotional pain?
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| « Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2004, 11:54am by floridian » |
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Tiannia
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 13th, 2004, 12:51pm » |
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From a clinical / psychological stand point. There can not be a link that would say that CH is caused by abuse. In many many years and if reasearch was ever actually done, research MIGHT say that people who suffered some sort of physical trauma might be prone to stress triggered headaches. One can not make a general comment / connection that abuse caused HA or CH. Especially emotional abuse. Now if there was universal physical abuse and or physical trauma that each of us have suffered at some time in our lives, then there might be a connection that there was damage to a nerve and or portion of the brain that might be the connected to how CH start.
The medical connection regarding the chemical triggers when under stress is much more plausable and researchable.
Yes there is reasearch that shows that people who are abused can develop mental conditions that can manifest themselves physically. But there is nothing that eludes to CH as a defense mechanism that the manifistations generally develop from.
I'll just off my soap box now.
Tiannia
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Mark C
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 13th, 2004, 9:16pm » |
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IMHO...I have been, and continue to be treated for three ailments...Clusterheadaches, insominia and depression. I believe these to be hardware problems and not software problems, ie something physical is wrong in my brain, either chemically or anatomically...the hypothalamus is the common gland in all of the three. It's my brain.....
PF Today,
Mark
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Lori
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 14th, 2004, 12:15am » |
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I'm with Marc..my brain is messed up. I have clusters and I am also Bipolar. The good thing is I just got put on lithium for the bipolar and I'm praying that will keep the clusters away too!
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Blessings and PFDAN,
Lori
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Sean_C
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #14 on: Feb 14th, 2004, 10:55pm » |
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Geez Mud,
Glad to hear you have therapy working for you now. You are definately a survivor. I wish you the best.
As for me stress can trigger a cycle for me no matter what time of year, and once they start its all of six weeks till their gone. There doesn't seem to be an on/off switch. If they come I'm fukked period.
I do my best to stay calm and I always attempt to let shit roll off my back because of it. Give it a try, maybe you'll get lucky.
As for depression I fortunately don't suffer the syndrome, however it is in my family, and they do not suffer from CH. If I had a choice I would take CH. Depression is way worse without proper treatment. I'm glad all of you out there who do suffer from it are getting treatment. Its available so you might as well take advantage of it....right.
Overall I'm with Mark, its hypothalamus related somehow.
PFDAN to all
Sean
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Bunky
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #15 on: Feb 17th, 2004, 5:35pm » |
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Here's a crazy thought...With a high level of stress and anxiety comes a lot of adrenaline. Could it be that when your stress levels off, your body isn't used to not having that high level of adrenaline and actually goes into withdrawl - in the form of a CH - because it doesn't know any other way to get that adrenaline back?
My husband was under a helluva lot of stress over the past 10 years - working 13/14 hour days, caring for his physically and mentally disabled mother, dealing with a horribly greedy sibling on a probate issue, etc. etc. It was after he started making lifestyle changes (working less) his mother's peaceful death, and the end of probate that he started getting the chronic clusters. He had never before experienced a CH.
What do you think? 
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BobG
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #16 on: Feb 18th, 2004, 10:32pm » |
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on Feb 12th, 2004, 6:09pm, Jayne wrote:My old doc who was a chronic CH, said that he thought most clusterheads had suffered some sort of abuse, some just don't remember it.
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Jayne, your doc should be shot and kicked to the gutter.
The "supressed memories" theory is nothing but crap made up by greedy shrinks to keep people paying for treatments they don't need.
Doc "Were you sexually abused as a child?"
Patient "I don't think so. I have no memory of it"
Doc "No memory of it? That proves you were abused. You have supressed it. That'll be $350. Please pay on your way out and make 12 more appointments."
If someone was abused they would remember it. They may not talk about it or like to think about it but they remember it.
IMHO your doc deserves every cluster he gets. He's a sleezy quack.
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KarynG
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #17 on: Feb 19th, 2004, 1:54pm » |
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I believe the same deformed part of my brain that causes my CH probably causes me to be a nut as well, so I attract weird things in my life. So, I'm agreeing w/Marc and others although a lot less eloquently.
I've had a lot of major events in my life and I have had CH during times of great stress and depression such as during the death of family member and also during wonderful relaxing vacations and happy moments with my family.
If you don't remember being abused, you probably weren't. It isn't easy to forget.
Good Luck!
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don
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #18 on: Feb 22nd, 2004, 12:09pm » |
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Quote:| If someone was abused they would remember it. |
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Absolutely, positively not true.
The mind has a unique ability to bury memories into the subconscious.
Bringing these memories out ussually requires the assistance of a professional. Once they come out a qualified professional should be available to assist you with dealing with the trauma.
Are there quacks out there that want to suck up your buck? Yup. Just like with CH though there are also qualified knowledgable Docs who will assist you for the right reasons.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2004, 2:13pm by don » |
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mudplugga
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 22nd, 2004, 6:05pm » |
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I agree with Don completely, it is possible to bury memories. I work with survivors of sex abuse and know of survivors who have recovered memories and then gone on to have their memories confirmed by the abuser confessing.
I also know for certain that there is a bit of a cottage industry going where quack therapists are making a fast buck from "recovering" memories where there patently aren't any.
It's a minefield that's done no justice to anyone.
But that aside, thank's for all the response to my original question.
The more I look back and figure out dates the closer the link becomes to the stress / and or depression / that I have had since I was a boy.
The ch was chronic until I did 'something' about the way I dealt with my abuse.
I relieved the problems the abuse was causing me temporarlily and the ch became periodic with the periods becoming shorted and less serious. The best year I had about 2 years back when I had maybe three mild attacks.
Therapy replaced the dysfunctional 'temporary cure' and the ch continued to ease off.
Now I have a shedload of new stress and depression, and they're back with a vengence.
I'm NOT blaming the abuse at all, just figuring out if there is a link to the effects, such as stress, depression, PTSD, and OCD.
And it would be simplistic to say that 'childhood trauma ( of whatever nature ) could be considered a cause of ch
OK, what I've listed there is psychological, and the pain is physical, that we can all attest to !, but the psych' does affect the chemistry. Also Lopeframine, which I was prescribed for depression is also used for CH with varying success, but none for me unfortunately.
Dave
Bob
thanks for the Medscape link, that's one I'll be using again.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2004, 6:47pm by mudplugga » |
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pubgirl
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #20 on: Feb 22nd, 2004, 8:32pm » |
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Lopeframine is used for CH?
By whom?
Never seen anyone mentioning it.
Never even heard of it
Wendy
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| « Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2004, 8:44pm by pubgirl » |
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mudplugga
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #21 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 5:35pm » |
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Here's the info on Lofepramine -
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LOFEPRAMINE
Lofepramine is also known as Gamanil. It comes as a tablet or liquid.
Lofepramine is pronounced low-fep-pra-mean.
What is Lofepramine for ?
Lofepramine can help to treat low mood and loss of interest in everyday things. If you have problems in sleeping it could help improve this.
Lofepramine is also used as painkiller for some nerve pains, like Trigeminal Neuralgia or after you have had Shingles.
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It's an alternative to Prozac, which disagreed with me, but then this stuff did as well so I've kicked it into touch and am dealing with the depression through therapy.
The reason my doc tried this is that it's used for Trigeminal Neuralgia - and he thought that the short stabbing pains that have started to accompany my CH 'might be something to do with TN ?' - I was willing to try dog turd by this point !
Anyway I've upped the Verapamil to 480mg and the CH appears to have died off - or the period has come to a natural end ?
I live in hope,
Dave
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pubgirl
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #22 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 6:01pm » |
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Hi Dave (which Dave are you btw?) I was curious, so I just checked the BNF and although Lofepramine is recommended for some forms of neuralgia, it specifically states that other treatments should be used for TN.
Still don't see its relevance for CH but hope it works for you.
W
Hope the PF continues 
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| « Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2004, 6:04pm by pubgirl » |
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renny
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #23 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 11:31pm » |
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well I'm just gonna put it out there...I am knew to this brd and this particular thread has hit home...and that's all I'm gonna say...there is possible link..those of you that don't know...GOOD...the rest, we know what's up...You guys have been an ABSOLUTE GODSEND to me...and with that, I will bow out......thank you all for being so real..........Karen
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denisebyrd
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Re: Trauma / stress / depression and ch ?
« Reply #24 on: Feb 27th, 2004, 6:02pm » |
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HI, My Doc just added Lexapro to my list of meds, an SSRI to treat anxiety/depression. I haven't really hear much about it and I was wondering if anyone else out there has tried it . Yeah iam depressed and anxious, whether from years of the f------ ha's or not who's to say! Just looking for some input Thanks Denise
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