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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #25 on: Aug 29th, 2005, 10:04pm »
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I think I had a kip 10. I was having an argument with my girlfriend when it reared its ugly head. It felt like someone had my head in a large vise and was crushing it harder and harder. I seriously contmeplated wacking myself in the head with a fry pan. I think I usually have kip8 or 9s. The good news...I can never be tortured by terrorists becuase there is NOTHING worse than a kip10!
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #26 on: Aug 30th, 2005, 8:44am »
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on Aug 29th, 2005, 3:31pm, thomas wrote:
I don't know what I do when I have a 10, I can't think or concentrate, lots of beating and banging and screaming.  I'm sure it's an ugly sight, but I can agree with Chuck, they have been rare for me as well.  Thank God.

I have to agree thomas I havnt had alot of 10's but I know when I do because it is so intense I have actually blacked out a couple of times and the other times I was in no state to search for a pistol. Hence keep it locked and key with wife. I told her to keep it in case someone ever tries to break in while I am at work. She doesnt truely understand what I am going through but I think she tries.
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #27 on: Aug 31st, 2005, 2:54pm »
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try and step outside of the natural self-absorption that can take place with CH and be more thoughtful about some of these serious subjects Quote:

 
Not to keep this thread around, but I just checked in and have to disagree. (Or actually agree in many cases with the replies.) This is a serious subject. Many may really need to talk about it. As in the first note, I believe most have been there (KIP10) and many are there often - and yes, thank God, it is rare for anyone to take their own life. As several others point out, more or less, there is no more "cluster headache specific" topic than a KIP10. For those who are irritated or concerned with such a private, personnal, and scarry topic - thanks for your patience and understanding! By the way, anyone who would like an ear to listen, or shoulder to cry on, please post-mail me. Like I said, been there too many times. Rich
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #28 on: Aug 31st, 2005, 3:07pm »
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on Aug 31st, 2005, 2:54pm, StressFree wrote:
"try and step outside of the natural self-absorption that can take place with CH and be more thoughtful about some of these serious subjects"
 
Not to keep this thread around, but I just checked in and have to disagree. (Or actually agree in many cases with the replies.) This is a serious subject. Many may really need to talk about it. As in the first note, I believe most have been there (KIP10) and many are there often - and yes, thank God, it is rare for anyone to take their own life. As several others point out, more or less, there is no more "cluster headache specific" topic than a KIP10. For those who are irritated or concerned with such a private, personnal, and scarry topic - thanks for your patience and understanding! By the way, anyone who would like an ear to listen, or shoulder to cry on, please post-mail me. Like I said, been there too many times. Rich

 
I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. My point was that this is a VERY serious subject which we sometimes bat about a little to gingerly. I'm not irritated or concerned with such a private, personal, scary topic. It's nice that you're so sensitive to everyone's needs and patient with everyone's input, but there are some ways that subjects are talked about on these threads that don't call for a hug. And, yes sometimes, people like yourself can appeal directly to someone with a really serious personal issue and get them talking using personal messages that would be more appropriate than keeping them broadcasting out to everybody and getting everyone's input, both appropriate and sometimes inappropriate to someone in an emergency or dire situation. So call me impersonal, but I think the subject shoulld be thought about MORE, before it is posted about more.  
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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2005, 3:09pm by seasonalboomer » IP Logged

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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #29 on: Aug 31st, 2005, 3:31pm »
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I think I see your point now Scott. Seriousness of the issue was part of why I wanted to post a separate thread, since the other had drifted and didn't seem to capture the importance of this issue. Many of us are maybe not so much "Newbie's" anymore, but haven't seen the previous discussions either. There is always the archive search. For me though, I don't get as much out of reading old messages as I do with discussing something with others currently. One other thing I'd like to mention. Some people can deal better with an issue by venting and letting out some anger, some with non stop joking, and some of us with "hugs". I guess I'm  a bit "touchy-feeley". Ewe, that doesn't sound too good - affraid it's true though! PFDAN, Rich
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #30 on: Aug 31st, 2005, 3:33pm »
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Scott,  
 
I think that we all agree that this is a very sensitive and serious subject - there is no doubt about that. I think that anytime pain is involved, especially at this level, than it is more than important..
 
But I am confused - what was the matter with this thread? I think that it was originally wrote to find out more about why 'suicidal' was under a KIP 10... especially very few have done so. The only part that I saw that was not right was saying that people cant go through KIP 10's on a daily basis and that is misleading.. Did I miss something?
 
Dont get me wrong, not trying to start anything here... just curious. And you are right, we do need to be careful when posting on this subject...  
 
Okay - I am adding this but I just looked through the thread again and I think I understand what you are saying about people joking... is that what you meant? Sorry if I misunderstood you..
 
Thanks (and sorry if this sounds bad)
Jill
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #31 on: Sep 1st, 2005, 12:08pm »
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Ch has made me real low on several occasions since the first hit. Yes, there has been a time when I considered to end it all... but it was more of a passing thought than a serious thing to consider. But that thought gave me strength to go on with the battle against ch. Have I had a kíp 10? I'd like to say that I haven't. But I've sure had several kip 9s... and they're bad enough.
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #32 on: Sep 1st, 2005, 8:53pm »
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I am with Frank on this one. Sometimes it is not the pain, but the ongoing thing of this. By the third week in my cycle I am always very depressed and contemplating suicide. And I am GLAD this aspect of CH is mentioned because it let me know that I was not alone and mentally disturbed but suffered a very real aspect of CH. Most of the time when I am in cycle of CH, it also triggers my complicated migraines as well and I feel very very sick which is sometimes worse than the actual pain of the headaches (anyone else like this?) Anyhow I am glad I have this board and some very real friends to share with and talk to when sick.
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #33 on: Sep 3rd, 2005, 1:07am »
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Pain is totally subjective, whether it be physical or emotional.  When dealing with Clusters it is both and IMHO it amplifies it on both levels.
The KIP scale is a tool, nothing more.  It isn't scientific, it isn't "the final word" on cluster pain.  Only a means of TRYING to communicate to some degree what we are experiencing.  Personally, I think it is harder to differentiate between a 1-3 or 5-7 than to identify a 10.  For me there are two levels of pain...I can deal with it and I can't.  I am chronic and have shadows to varying degrees every day.  I have Kip 10's about 3x a week each lasting three to four hours.  I know when they are coming and I go into survival mode.  Long gone are the days of pacing or head banging....I become preternaturally calm, withdraw into my "cave" and prepare to kill anything which threatens to invade my space.  I am headed there now and gotta tell you ClusterChuck's  first post of this thread really rubbed me the wrong way.  For anyone to have the arrogance to question the validity of another's pain is offensive and I am surprised others haven't responded more vehemently to this.
The only absolute statement which can be made about Clusters is that they suck.  Everything else is very personal and differs from one to another of us.
Let's all try to remember that and not make judgements about anything.
The one obvious exception to this rule is in regard to Jonny.  He's allowed to be judgemental about everything because, well, who's gonna stop him???
Vison blurring, gotta go.
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #34 on: Sep 3rd, 2005, 6:48am »
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Kim wrote: "Pain is totally subjective, whether it be physical or emotional.  When dealing with Clusters it is both and IMHO it amplifies it on both levels."
 
I agree with this in as much that if the most intense pain an individual ever experienced would equal a K8, than that would be that persons reference point for a K10 until that person experienced a more intense level of pain which would keep climbing the scale. In other words, it is subjective based on the highest level of pain experienced because that level becomes one's reference for the worst pain. At least in my case, JMHO.
 
My 2 cents,
Bob
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #35 on: Sep 3rd, 2005, 7:07am »
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on Sep 3rd, 2005, 6:48am, Chillrmn1 wrote:
Kim wrote: "Pain is totally subjective, whether it be physical or emotional.  When dealing with Clusters it is both and IMHO it amplifies it on both levels."
 
I agree with this in as much that if the most intense pain an individual ever experienced would equal a K8, than that would be that persons reference point for a K10 until that person experienced a more intense level of pain which would keep climbing the scale. In other words, it is subjective based on the highest level of pain experienced because that level becomes one's reference for the worst pain. At least in my case, JMHO.
 
My 2 cents,
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 Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I've mentioned this many a time.
 
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #36 on: Sep 3rd, 2005, 4:22pm »
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on Sep 3rd, 2005, 1:07am, kimmeesue wrote:
Pain is totally subjective, whether it be physical or emotional.  When dealing with Clusters it is both and IMHO it amplifies it on both levels.
The KIP scale is a tool, nothing more.  It isn't scientific, it isn't "the final word" on cluster pain.  Only a means of TRYING to communicate to some degree what we are experiencing.  

 
I agree as well.  In fact, I see it every day.  I ask each patient I see what pain level they are having based on a similar scale, 0=no pain and 10=the worst possible pain they can imagine.  I can't tell you how many times I have someone chuckle and say "Oh, it's definitely a 10."  While they are smiling at me, I tell them that a "10" means pain severe enough to need an ER visit immediately.  That always gets a response like "Oh, no.  It's not THAT bad."  I ask them again what level they are having, and more often than not, they will say "It's a 9."   Roll Eyes
 
Those people have a very different perception of pain severity than I have.  However, I never say they don't have pain, or severe pain.  They feel that they do.  
 
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #37 on: Sep 4th, 2005, 6:09am »
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10s are not that unusal for a chronic (at least from this chronic's point of view) and suicide thinking isn't either. Most of us don't go thru with the suicide (as is attested by the fact that we're still here) but we DO think about it more than we care to admit. The pain, lack of sleep, depression, etc does that to us.  
 
When I was episodic (back so long ago) I could actually "forget" about my afflicition during the times when I was out of cycle, but now (since 97) they're with me daily and even when I catch a break, I KNOW they're still there and am on edge "waiting". It's just become a way of life. You know it's gonna hit - you just don't know when and you're on edge waiting.  
 
Anyhow that's my two cents.....
 
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #38 on: Sep 4th, 2005, 9:08am »
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Suicide is inherently a symptom of a K10.  
 
Newbie's won't be scared by the posts, they already are and just might find comfort in the fact that some of us have survived 30 years
 
Afterall, didn't your doctor use the term "suicde headache" , "worst pain known to man", or "people jump out windows" within 3 minutes of stating the diagnosis? The reality is that we start this adventure with the term suicide implanted in our heads, we just don't end it that way
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #39 on: Sep 5th, 2005, 6:20am »
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The thought of suicide is a very sensitive subject but I believe the thought has passed though most of our minds when we truly experience a Kip 10 attack. Yes I believe the thought is inherent for most when enduring a Kip 10. In my case during a Kip 10, seems part of my sanity erodes due to the intense pain. You try and think of anything to stop or getaway from the pain. I've not made that trip to an ER for I reason by the time I get there, the attack will be over, however my longest attacks have lasted only about 1-1/2 hours. And yes, that thought of suicide has danced thru my head for a fleeting second, then sanity comes back and takes over. Suicide is NOT the answer or resolution. The attack will end.
 
For a newbie that has yet to experience a true Kip 10, I feel it important that they understand this thought may occur, but the attack will end, and suicide is not the answer. Just be prepared in mind, spirit, and soul to fight this thought.
Bob
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #40 on: Sep 5th, 2005, 3:10pm »
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I knew two people who committed suicide by self-inflicted gunshot to the head.
 
Hunter S. Thompson, the gonzo journalist and author of "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas", "Hells Angels: The Strange and Terrible Saga of the Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs", and "Kingdom of Fear: Loathsome Secrets of a Star-Crossed Child in the Final Days of the American Century", in which he wrote "9/11 caused a nationwide nervous breakdown and let the Bush crowd loot the country and savage American democracy". Thompson spent a year living and riding with the Hells Angels in the mid-1960's. I knew him from many discussions with him at a San Francisco bar in the late 1970's.
 
On the day Hunter died, medic1852 posted this on CH.com:
 
Quote:
Little Something Something     Feb 20th, 2005, 7:35pm  
Started by medic1852 | Post by medic1852
 
Ok everyone I know in the last thread I was talking about how depressed I was. I have done everything I know how to do. I have played with my little pigs. I have practiced my guitar till my fingers hurt (cant pick my nose now). Looked at a ton of porn (why lie). Listened to all kinds of music. Then I decided to try my hand at writing. So I wrote down a little something something. It is dark and it is PURELY FICTION! So dont no-one freak it is just writing not a warning. But I figured I would post it hear for all the critics. Please be honest.
 
 
     "Black Talon"
 
The cold blue glistens in the light, in dark contrast of the white towel it lays upon freshly cleaned and polished. Its walnut handle shows the wear and age of its use. Next to it lays a single brass casing topped in black Teflon. Knowing this is the one, it will work.  
The magazine cold and empty waits for its spring to grow tight with pressure, as the single round is place into it. As it slides into place the action is smooth as silk, locking in place well seated, without fault.
The slide eases back pushing the hammer into place. The round chamber easily from the years of use the ramp has no burrs and is smooth. With a loud clap the slide slams forward locking the round in place.
The front sight post fits securely in place between my front teeth. The cold steel against my warm lips. I feel sweat building on my forehead. As I rock back and forth from the pain that is unrelenting behind my right eye which sags and waters from the pain.  
The slack is pulled from the trigger as the tension builds. Releasing the hammer from its place. Slamming home against the firing pin, which in turn ignites the primer. The powder burns rapidly but in my mind I feel each grain ignite. Pushing the black Teflon slug through the barrel.  
I feel the round travel down the length of the barrel twisting slowly in the lands and grooves. The slug exits the barrel tearing through the roof of my mouth as the Teflon gives way and the once round smoothness gives way to a small mushroom head with teeth like a saw.  
It continues to spin pushing up through the base of my skull now. I feel the heat from the round it seems as if it is and eternity for the pain to subside. Pieces of skull fragment tear through my brain along with the little jagged piece of lead tearing and pushing. The pressure in side my skull cavity is too much, the top gives way allowing what is left of my brain to pass through and become splattered on the ceiling above.
The pain starts to ease but now everything is black as I feel my body slam into the hard floor. But there is no pain in my head as it hits the floor, more like a sponge being dropped into a sink. The warm dark blood pours from what was once my head.  
But now it is over there is no more pain. The beast is gone; he will torment me no longer. Now it is done.
Rodger Brumley

 
This was my reply:
 
Quote:
Feb 23rd, 2005, 9:42pm  
Started by medic1852 | Post by BikerBob
 
Reply to "Black Talon", from Hunter S. Thompson...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Hunter here, from the great beyond, well, from beyond. Place isn't any fucking better here than what you meat-bound suckers are laden with. Don't fucking pity how some desperate soul leaves the world, just congratulate the occasional player with the balls to choose his own door out and move on. I didn't make love to the gun and the bullet didn't fuck my head spurting brain ejaculate onto the wall. I weighed my options, made the decision, shot myself, end of story. I avoided sure death 13 times before, but I could no longer avoid something that eons of flawed genetic programming cumulated in: that pathetic splattered mess I left behind.
 
No matter how you live your life, it will end the same way, collapsing alone into a void. Nobody is going to make that trip with you, so you'd better prepare yourself for it now. I saw the tunnel, I saw the light and do you know what it is? The light? Just one big burial site for all unfulfilled hopes and dreams still burning with desire. They say to go toward the light, like hell, I ran from it. With every ounce of willpower left to my thin existence, I ran. I have no unfulfilled hopes or dreams to contribute... and that's the lesson man, that's what it's about. You've got your one chance, don't fuck it up before you come here and piously march into that light secretly burning with your petty wishes."

 
BB
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #41 on: Sep 6th, 2005, 9:19am »
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Written during the 12th week of the cycle from Hell, the year before last.
 
 
Cluster Cycle
 
 
Swerve through malaise colored
days that wash over me like movies shot
through mustard-toned filters
 
Too many sleeping pills bring
fragmented montage of scotch scoured dreams
of drowning drowning and drowning
 
Autumn afternoon shadows stretching
long lavender fingers through my window
to jab my gritty eyes while television blares
broken babble blasting bombs and bloodshed
 
Future yawns before me in a chasm as
wide and dark as the perfect "O" of the
shotgun's barrel and I long for sleep as
smooth and cool as the trigger beneath my toe
 
-Frank H. Weeden
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #42 on: Sep 6th, 2005, 7:25pm »
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Man, Frank.  You're good.   Cry
 
I'm very glad you are still here to share that . . . and sorry for the suffering you had to endure to write it.
 
Namaste,
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #43 on: Sep 6th, 2005, 11:14pm »
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In my opinion, a KIP10 is NOT the cause for someone commiting suicide. It is definately a factor and could possibly push someone over the edge if they where already unstable.
 
I'm episodic and I would say I have (or used to before Trex) had at least 8 or so KIP 10's every cycle, every year. Many of those times I didn't even know what a Clusterheadache was before I finally found out what I had.
 
You learn to deal know matter how hard it is. Most newbies that come here are thrilled to find out others are out there. This board should prevent anything like that, not assist someone just because it is being talked about. My 2cents.
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #44 on: Sep 7th, 2005, 7:06am »
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Thanks, Sal.
 
BlueMeanie, I agree with you. There are so many factors that go into something like suicide. It's not just, "Oh god!! This headache is so bad!!!" *BLAM!!* Suicide is like a whole wall of stuff, with Kip-10's being only one of many many bricks that go into it.
 
If I became chronic, lost my job, wife asked me for a divorce, and found out that I had cancer, those would all be major things that would get me thinking about checking out. Then, after a particularly nasty stretch of intense cluster attacks, sleep deprived, and depressed, then that option would begin to look pretty attractive.
 
When it comes right down to it though, human beings are so tough... The idea of someone killing themselves because of cluster headaches alone, seems unrealistic to me.
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #45 on: Sep 7th, 2005, 7:13am »
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Sad
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #46 on: Sep 7th, 2005, 8:13pm »
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on Sep 6th, 2005, 11:14pm, BlueMeanie wrote:
This board should prevent anything like that, not assist someone just because it is being talked about. My 2cents.

 
Sorry, BlueMeanie, but I disagree.
 
If someone is considering suicide, talking about it is not going to throw them over the edge.  Like Frank said, there are a lot of other things going on when the unthinkable happens.  Most people considering it are looking for someone to talk them out of it, or hoping to find someone who understands.  I think this thread gives many good reasons for living, and offers a lot of understanding.  Every one of us posting here are proof that you can endure CH and still live a good, if not "normal" life.   Smiley
 
Namaste,
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #47 on: Sep 7th, 2005, 8:48pm »
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on Sep 7th, 2005, 8:13pm, Salvelinus wrote:

 
Sorry, BlueMeanie, but I disagree.
 
If someone is considering suicide, talking about it is not going to throw them over the edge.  Like Frank said, there are a lot of other things going on when the unthinkable happens.  Most people considering it are looking for someone to talk them out of it, or hoping to find someone who understands.  I think this thread gives many good reasons for living, and offers a lot of understanding.  Every one of us posting here are proof that you can endure CH and still live a good, if not "normal" life.   Smiley
 
Namaste,
--Scott

 
This is the part that disturbs me. Having lost two close friends to suicide I can honestly say that talking on this board is not going to save somebody's life who ligitimately is going to commit suicide. It might prevent somebody from hurting themselves at that moment and give them time to rationalise, but its not going to stop the people that are deeply depressed and not in control of thier own emotions.  
 
My honest advice is don't play with someones emotions if your not trained to do so. If you truely love someone get thier asses to a medical facility that can help them now. Because if you wait, you may be sorry later.  
 
I know, I lived it, take it the way you want.
 
Sean...................................
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #48 on: Sep 7th, 2005, 10:56pm »
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on Sep 7th, 2005, 8:13pm, Salvelinus wrote:

 
Sorry, BlueMeanie, but I disagree.
 
If someone is considering suicide, talking about it is not going to throw them over the edge.  Like Frank said, there are a lot of other things going on when the unthinkable happens.  Most people considering it are looking for someone to talk them out of it, or hoping to find someone who understands.  I think this thread gives many good reasons for living, and offers a lot of understanding.  Every one of us posting here are proof that you can endure CH and still live a good, if not "normal" life.   Smiley
 
Namaste,
--Scott

 
I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. If they are having a KIP10 and was thinking about suicide, (and not already over the edge), finding this board will help prevent it from happening. Because when they find out they are not the only ones out there getting these terrible headaches, it can make them feel much better. If that makes any sense.
 
Sean, I feel for ya. I went to Vegas last year leaving a worker who was very depressed (not from CH's).  When I returned, he didn't show for work. I called his house to see where he was. I found out it was too late. Sometimes nothing can be done, but a professional is the best route.
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Re: KIP10 symptom "suicidal"?
« Reply #49 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 9:01am »
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Quote:
can honestly say that talking on this board is not going to save somebody's life who ligitimately is going to commit suicide

 
I dont agree wiith this... No matter what, when someone comes here thinking about suicide, the headaches are a huge factor in this.. why else would they be on this board? Coming here and realizing that people understand and support them can make them feel like they arent alone in this battle. I know, I have been there.. It is important to realize when someone comes here looking for help than they probably dont want to go through with it, they are looking for help. If someone really wants to go through it, than they arent going to tell anyone....
 
That being said, I think that there are two different ways that one can consider suicide as a way out.. one when we are in the midst of a KIP 10 and one when everything is going wrong and we can rationalize...
 
I know that for me, when in the middle of a KIP 10, I will do anything to stop the pain and I know that I beg for someone to end it for me.. If I could, and I have before, I would take more meds than I should and do whatever I can to make it stop. This doesnt mean that I want to die persay but it is that the pain is so intense that I am not thinking in a rational fashion. I bet that most of us beg to die during a KIP 10.. hence the reason why suicide is on the KIP scale.
 
The other way, is when we are rational and not in pain and considering suicide. This, as you have said, is when there is so many things going on and the headaches are just a mere part of the scale.. this is one a different level..  
 
I have been on both of these levels and I know that there is different ways of thinking about this. No matter what, if someone on here comes and speaks about it, than we need to help them in anyway we can.. atleast letting them know that they arent alone and so forth..
 
Just my thoughts..
 
Jill
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"If you learn from your suffering and really come to understand the lesson you were taught you might be able to help someone else who is now in the phase. Maybe that is what its all about after all.."
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