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Topic: I do not think (Read 1709 times) |
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BikerBob
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Re: I do not think
« Reply #25 on: Mar 16th, 2006, 10:57pm » |
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Don, the debate is about whether or not narcotics are a CH trigger. You say they are and he says they're not.
You are the one who made the original claim that narcotics are a trigger. Where's your reference material to back up your claim? Got any links to webpages that say so?
You're being adolescent, almost infantile, by trying to change the subject to:
on Mar 16th, 2006, 9:19pm, chewy wrote:Anything you say Mr. Floyd. LMAO!
( A 52 yeargrown man who refers to himself as "PinkFloyd". Well.......decide for yourself. To many schrooms Mr. Floyd? LMAO) |
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Show us your backup material for your claim or STFU.
BB
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nani
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Re: I do not think
« Reply #26 on: Mar 16th, 2006, 11:01pm » |
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Rapunzel, I'm sorry you're having such a bad time. Hopefully we've been able to help. Please ignore any posts to this thread that are not directly related to yours. We really are here to help. pf wishes, nani
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Others may come and go, but MY power is MINE.
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chewy
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Rapunzel,
Try skipping the darvocet and see if there is a differance.
If the melatonin is ineffective try the dramamine.
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CHTom
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If there is a scientific article that proves that narcotics are a trigger then I'd like to see it; the same for narcotics causing CH "rebound" HA pain. None of my docs-neurologists, internists, neurosurgeons-have ever said to me that narcotic use for CH pain causes "rebound" headaches or trigger a CH attack and there is nothing in the medical literature that supports either contention. Aside from your mind being made up that they do cause these phenomenons, Chewy, what is your proof? I've asked this question before on another post but no answer came and I think that the reason is that because there is no answer, no proof. I'll wait while you dig something up-send the link. Maybe we should follow the advice of the guy-I forgot his name-who recently posted that regular enemas will stop CH pain-"sheeesh "(want to use another word but it would probably get censored out  ). I think that I'll go have a nice big bowl of Fibre One with prune juice now.
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burnt-toast
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Re: I do not think
« Reply #29 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 8:33am » |
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Repunzl - other interested parties. Let's keep things moving in a positive direction.
Here are a few online resources - CH - Diagnostic, Treatments/Medications, Rebound H/A, Narcotics use.
Everyone can make up their own minds about the best treatment option(s) for themselves.
Very well written/illustrated article apparently done privately by someone close to our little CH hearts http://www.miqel.com/clusterheadaches/clusterheadaches.html
Good article covering CH diagnosis/treatment/medications, etc.
http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_treatments_cluster_attacks_00 0099_8.htm
Good general CH diagnostic/treatment/medications brief reference to opiates and valid uses http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic229.htm
General headache descriptions/includes CH - briefly cover rebound headache/dependency issue and treatment options http://www.achenet.org/resources/headfact.php
CH specific reference diagnosis/treatments brief reference to little value in opiates
http://www.touchbriefings.com/pdf/1239/rozen.pdf
Good article on rebound headaches/causes, symptoms, prevention
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00613.html
Article on medication overuse/rebound headaches http://www.achenet.org/articles/38.php
Good general CH diagnostic/treatment information with links to good sources of CH specific information http://www.rnweb.com/rnweb/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=109931
Typical UPMC article - Brief do’s/don’ts and reference to abortive/preventative treatments for CH http://headache.upmc.com/ClusterHeadache/Treatment.htm
Brief article CH symptoms/treatments
http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/central/migraine/cluster_ headache.htm
Not an article but in includes a user input 1-10 rating scale on the effectiveness of Vicodin etc. (Hydrocodone; Acetaminophen) in treating CH http://remedyfind.com/rem.asp?ID=16026
General headache article/includes CH, covers rebound H/A, Narcotics and the need to treat underlying causes http://www.milwaukeepain.com/headaches.html
Two very good online prescription drug reference sites to research the meds. from these articles
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginformation.html
http://www.drugs.com/
Tom
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BarbaraD
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Re: I do not think
« Reply #30 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 8:34am » |
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Tom,
I don't know where it is, but for years (or years ago) we've been proving that analgesics cause rebounds. Neuros will tell you that.
Darvocets have analgesic in them. And they will cause rebounds.
Sometimes I take 3 Excedrin with Coffee to abort (under a Kip-5) but I have to be very careful not to do it often.
Very few CHers are helped by narcs (there are some exceptions). Most of us use vaso-constrictors to abort.
But drugs like Vicodin, Darvocet and the likes have been proved to be mostly useless in treating CH.
Hugs BD
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CHTom
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on Mar 17th, 2006, 8:34am, BarbaraD wrote:Tom,
I don't know where it is, but for years (or years ago) we've been proving that analgesics cause rebounds. Neuros will tell you that.
Darvocets have analgesic in them. And they will cause rebounds.
Sometimes I take 3 Excedrin with Coffee to abort (under a Kip-5) but I have to be very careful not to do it often.
Very few CHers are helped by narcs (there are some exceptions). Most of us use vaso-constrictors to abort.
But drugs like Vicodin, Darvocet and the likes have been proved to be mostly useless in treating CH.
Hugs BD |
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Barb, analgesics may cause rebounds in regular headaches, but clusters are a whole different ballgame. To say that narcotics cause "rebounds" in CH and that it has been known for years but not being able to cite the source doesn't quite do it. SOME neuros may say that they cause rebounds, but not all do and it needs to be backed up by more than one article that was published somewhere, someplace, some time ago.
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E-Double
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Re: I do not think
« Reply #32 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 8:47am » |
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You really have to be on an analgesic for some time consistently and continuously to get the bone crushing REBOUND.
It sucks
Educate your doctor.
Empower yourself!
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I can't believe that I have to bang my
Head against this wall again
But the blows they have just a little more
Space in-between them
Gonna take a breath and try again.
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burnt-toast
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Re: I do not think
« Reply #33 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 9:01am » |
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I agree with your assessment Barbara. Narcotics are not the way to go but I guess everyone has to choose their own path (or poison if you would).
Many studies agree that narcotics have little value in treating our disorder and may in fact lead to more problems. However there is a consistent resurfacing of this issue and some feel that by treating the symptom -"Un-Godly" pain they find relief. About 11 years ago I was doing the same thing - but by maintaing a good H/A journal it became apparent I was barking up the wrong tree and getting nowhere in the treatment of my condition or finding real relief.
With my Neruos. guidance I've experimented extensively with abortives/preventatives for the last decade and tracked the effectiveness of each treatment/combination/dosages/medication schedules.
Guess what - progress in the form of reduced frequency of attacks (not perfect) and reduced severity in most attacks (again not perfect) and for the last 6 weeks remission of what has been a chronic condition.
Most if not all research indicates that abortive/preventative treatments are not 100% effective but are the most effective treatments currently available.
But good record keeping is needed to really determine what is working and what is not and how to adjust treatment to find the best relief.
Tom
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Kirk
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Just Curious
« Reply #34 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 9:24am » |
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on Mar 16th, 2006, 8:16pm, chewy wrote:| My mind is thoroughly made up. Narcotics are known triggers but if it helps then occasional usage is fine. |
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Could you justify that statement for me please. I have been taking Methadone and Oxycodone daily for 6 months, and they have not tiggered a CH yet. Before that I have taken Morphine, Fentanyl and several other heavy pain killers finding the right mix for chronic pain. So far they don't do a damn thing for CH. Nor do they trigger them.
In the 6 years between the old board and the new board, no one has mentioned to me that narcotics has been a trigger for them either. 
You just seem so adament about it.
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rapunzel
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Re: I do not think
« Reply #35 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 9:54am » |
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I cant reply to the narcotic usage- because I havent found anything that really works yet...however I have discovered something that i will NEVER take again.
I posted yesterday that the doctor prescribed me depakoteER and topamax.
I took them last night.
I slept all night long. no head pain at all. I was like in a coma. I went to bed at 8:30. I woke up at 3:30 am totally disoriented.
I tried to read, could not make any sense of anything.
I slept some more. I have been an emotional mess- cried, I have snapped at my children, argued with my husband, had some weird pain between my eyes, across the bridge of my nose...my head has been all groggy- foggy
I have spent hours trying to clear my head because I have to go to work in an hour. Im still not right, but I showered, feel better than I did, ate some cereal and at least i can make some sense out of some posts now.. I definitely have a hangover type headache. One thing is for sure, I will never ever take those pills again. Better to suffer from clusterpain than be a vegetable trying to function.
i think.
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burnt-toast
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Re: I do not think
« Reply #36 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:16am » |
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on Mar 17th, 2006, 9:54am, rapunzel wrote:I cant reply to the narcotic usage- because I havent found anything that really works yet...however I have discovered something that i will NEVER take again.
I posted yesterday that the doctor prescribed me depakoteER and topamax.
I took them last night.
I slept all night long. no head pain at all. I was like in a coma. I went to bed at 8:30. I woke up at 3:30 am totally disoriented.
I tried to read, could not make any sense of anything.
I slept some more. I have been an emotional mess- cried, I have snapped at my children, argued with my husband, had some weird pain between my eyes, across the bridge of my nose...my head has been all groggy- foggy
I have spent hours trying to clear my head because I have to go to work in an hour. Im still not right, but I showered, feel better than I did, ate some cereal and at least i can make some sense out of some posts now.. I definitely have a hangover type headache. One thing is for sure, I will never ever take those pills again. Better to suffer from clusterpain than be a vegetable trying to function.
i think. |
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Don't give up on finding treatments that work for you. You're Neuro. went for some of the big guns (depakoteER and topamax) in treating your CH. Based on side effects, etc. I've stayed away from these two and never agreed to take them.
I'm reposting these links. Please take time to look through them and consider all of the treatment options available. Then use the Prescription Drug references to see what you can be comfortable with and then work with your Neuro. to develop a treatment plan that you both agree on.
Here are a few online resources - CH - Diagnostic, Treatments/Medications, Rebound H/A, Narcotics use.
Very well written/illustrated article apparently done privately by someone close to our little CH hearts http://www.miqel.com/clusterheadaches/clusterheadaches.html
Good article covering CH diagnosis/treatment/medications, etc.
http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_treatments_cluster_attacks_00 0099_8.htm
Good general CH diagnostic/treatment/medications brief reference to opiates and valid uses http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic229.htm
General headache descriptions/includes CH - briefly cover rebound headache/dependency issue and treatment options http://www.achenet.org/resources/headfact.php
CH specific reference diagnosis/treatments brief reference to little value in opiates
http://www.touchbriefings.com/pdf/1239/rozen.pdf
Good article on rebound headaches/causes, symptoms, prevention
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00613.html
Article on medication overuse/rebound headaches http://www.achenet.org/articles/38.php
Good general CH diagnostic/treatment information with links to good sources of CH specific information http://www.rnweb.com/rnweb/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=109931
Typical UPMC article - Brief do’s/don’ts and reference to abortive/preventative treatments for CH http://headache.upmc.com/ClusterHeadache/Treatment.htm
Brief article CH symptoms/treatments
http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/central/migraine/cluster_ headache.htm
General headache article/includes CH, covers rebound H/A, Narcotics and the need to treat underlying causes http://www.milwaukeepain.com/headaches.html
Two very good online prescription drug reference sites to research the meds. from these articles
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginformation.html
http://www.drugs.com/
Tom
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Would the owner of the propane torch, egg beater, pipe expander and vise grips please claim these items. They're lodged in my head and I need the space.
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E-Double
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Re: I do not think
« Reply #37 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:16am » |
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on Mar 17th, 2006, 9:54am, rapunzel wrote: Better to suffer from clusterpain than be a vegetable trying to function.
i think. |
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That is exactly how I feel!
I need my wits!
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I can't believe that I have to bang my
Head against this wall again
But the blows they have just a little more
Space in-between them
Gonna take a breath and try again.
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chewy
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Quote:Everyone can make up their own minds about the best treatment option(s) for themselves.
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Absolutely.
I digressed by even responding to Pinkfloyds outburst. Forgot what board I was on.
Sorry about that Rapunzel
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Melissa
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rapunzel- Have you talked to your doctor about Oxygen (O2)? See if you can get him/her to prescribe it for you with a non-rebreather mask. For more info. on O2, click on the button to the left of the screen that says "oxygen info".
If he agrees for you to try it, and it kills an attack within 20minutes, then I'd also consider purchasing a clustermasx (which will make it work even faster).
Take care,
 mel
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