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starlight
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Bipolar and CH
« on: Mar 25th, 2008, 3:23pm » |
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I was wondering--is there any known connection between bipolar and CH? Just wondering--this is not a comment on myself or anyone else--but the question entered my head as lithium is effective (sometimes) for both. Anyone know is there ever a correlation between the 2?
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Annette
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #1 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 3:37pm » |
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There are some similarities between the two such as both involve similar neurotransmitters: seretonins, dopamine, noradrenaline, melatonin etc. Both can be seasonal and cyclical. Meds for one work for the other. However, they affect different areas of the brain : BP affects the limbic system and CH affects the hypothalamus. Gene alleles are different also.
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MR_JESTER
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #2 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 9:44pm » |
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I'm no expert on Bi-polar disorder, but I was diagnosed approx. 8yrs ago with Adult ADD/OCD and mild Tourettes Syndrome, as was my oldest daughter.
The neurotransmitters function basically the same within the traits where dopamine and nor-epi are involved.
I would be very interested to see if any type of study has every been done to identify a link.
you have peaked my curiosity!
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Charlotte
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #3 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 10:01pm » |
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I think I see a correlation in the cyclical nature, in my family, and I think the bi-polar is less random.
My full-blood sister has severe migraines & I have ch and other "short" headaches. I think the actual ch gene came from my Dad's ancesters.
My two half sisters are both bi-polar. One is severe, and what I call a "rapid cycler" and violent, and I have lost track of her.
The other has two cycles that I can see, the long cycle is 2 years, and the short cycle takes 3 days to go up or down, and about a day staionary at up or down. She is currently doign well on lithium and cymbalta.
Of the next generation, one daughter of the milder bi-polar sister has both bi-polar and severe migraine, and a daughter of my sister w/migraine has severe migraine.
Of my 5 kids, 3 have headaches, but not ch.
My non-blood related sister with the same dad as my bi-polar half sisters is not bi-polar and does not have headaches, but has a bi-polar daughter.
Seems like a pattern to me.
Charlotte
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| « Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2008, 10:04pm by Charlotte » |
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starlight
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #4 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 11:14pm » |
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Mr. Jester,
That's weird that you mention about you and your daughter having mild Tourette's--I am pretty sure I had that as a kid--I had a very very noticeable head tic and other tics as a kid, my parents just thought I was "weird"--I outgrew them when I was about 12 but looking back I am pretty sure that I had Tourette's as a kid. I really think neurologists diagnosing CH need to start questioning our histories to find any possible connections.
Charlotte, a friend of mine just got diagnosed with bipolar disorder and with the lithium connection it got me wondering--to me, I would not be surprised if there was some kind of connection--not in every case by any means but maybe in some-- to me that is weird that the meds help both and also disorders share some similarities, I was thinking that too with the rapid cycling bipolar and mixed manic states--there is some kind of pattern of some kind that has a similarity. I just wish neuros would ask more about histories. It is funny neuros never seem to delve much into this.
Star
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E-Double
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #5 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 11:40pm » |
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Why are you always looking for a connection between CH and other disorders???
The fact of the matter is that it could be connected to hundreds of different disorders
If truly due to a malfuntioning hypothalmus then mayne it related to hyperhydrosis?
Maybe it is related to :
eating disorders
MS
sleep disorders.........
I don't know what else...just a few off the top of my head which have been linked.
I think it is a stretch or maybe not (how's that for circular talk?)
because the hypolathingamjiggy controls so many damn things in our bodies.
JMO
hugs,
E
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DragonSlayer
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #6 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 12:59am » |
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The hypothalamus is a region of the brain that controls an immense number of bodily functions. It is located in the middle of the base of the brain, and encapsulates the ventral portion of the third ventricle.
hypothalamus
the portion of the diencephalon lying beneath the thalamus at the base of the cerebrum, and forming the floor and part of the lateral wall of the third ventricle. It includes the optic chiasm, mammillary bodies, tuber cinereum, infundibulum and hypophysis (pituitary gland), but for physiological purposes, the hypophysis is considered a distinct structure.
The hypothalamic nuclei activate, control and integrate many of the involuntary functions necessary for living. The various hypothalamic centers influence peripheral autonomic mechanisms, endocrine activity and many somatic functions, e.g. a general regulation of water balance, body temperature, sleep, thirst and hunger, and the development of secondary sex characteristics...
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| « Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2008, 1:07am by DragonSlayer » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #7 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 8:04am » |
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A study was posted here awhile back showing the occurance of Bipolar I from among a large sample of cluster sufferers to be the same percentage as the rest of the population, about 1 to 1.2%. I searched and couldn't find it presently but am sure of what it said.
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Kevin_M
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #8 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 10:50am » |
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For general population:
Quote:RESULTS: As originally reported nearly two decades ago by the primary investigators of the ECA, the lifetime prevalence for manic episode was 0.8%, and for hypomania, 0.5%. What is new here is the inclusion of subthreshold SSM subjects, which accounted for 5.1%, yielding a total of 6.4% lifetime prevalence for the bipolar spectrum.
(see study # 22)
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.soft.bipolar.html |
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Newer figures are probably revised upward, I've seen up to 8%.
Here is the study of clusters and bipolar from 2003. Although the conclusion reads:
Quote:Conclusion: This study indicates that, as with migraine, bipolar is seen with an increased frequency among cluster patients. Certain medications, such as sodium valproate, may be beneficial in treating both illnesses.
http://www.headachedrugs.com/archives2/bipolar.html |
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You will see the findings match the general population for the bipolar spectrum.
Quote:Of the 275 cluster patients, 134 had episodic cluster, and 141 were chronic cluster sufferers.
COMBINED: 18/275 patients (6.5%) were bipolar. 1.1% were bipolar I, 2.2% bipolar II, 2.2% cyclothymic, and 1.1% bipolar NOS. |
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The 6.5% bipolar stated here is in line with the general population for the bipolar spectrum, which includes bipolar I, bipolar II, cyclothymic, and NOS. The wording of this combined result does not say that the 6.5% is actually the spectrum of bipolarity, it only says bipolar, then breaks down the percentages for each of the categories constituting the spectrum.
You will see here, when the very same Robbins Headache Clinic evaluated 1000 migraine patients, they added the same four categories together to get a total and called it the bipolar spectrum, according to DSM IV.
Quote:The lifetime prevalence of bipolar illness in the 1000 migraineurs is as follows: Bipolar I: 2.1%. Bipolar II: 2.4%. Cyclothymic Disorder: 1.3%. Bipolar disorder not otherwise specified: 2.8%. Total for the Bipolar Spectrum: 8.6%.
http://headachedrugs.com/archives/bipolar_spectrum.html |
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sorry, forgot a link, been added now.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2008, 10:57am by Kevin_M » |
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starlight
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #9 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 11:32am » |
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EDouble,
This post was based mainly on curiosity. Friend got diagnosed with bipolar, we
were talking about the illness as well as lithium (how it is a salt) and of course my wheels started spinning--wanting to know if BP could ever play a role in CH--seems a question that has been asked before judging from studies Kevin posted (thanks Kevin  ).
I guess it is wrong of me, but something in my brain has always resisted that CH is just an isolated phenomenon, although, admittedly, it probably is in most cases.
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starlight
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #11 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 12:18pm » |
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MJ,
Thanks, that looks very interesting! I will definitely check it out!
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Charlotte
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #12 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 12:23pm » |
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Star, I love your curiousity. You are always fun for me.
love, Charlotte
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E-Double
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #13 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 1:40pm » |
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my curiosity got lost in translation....
u answered my question staing that you dont believe that it is an isolated disorder.
wasn't knocking...just curious
Eric
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starlight
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #14 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 2:38pm » |
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Charlotte,
Thank you for saying that!
EDouble,
I didn't think you were knocking--sorry if it sounded that way--if anything I could tell that you yourself are curious also as from your post I could tell you had also been interested in correlations and done some research into that.
I think I couldn't explain very well what I wanted to say--braindrain from allegies going on this week--anyway, I think Charlotte hit it in her post when she described a "cyclical nature"--that's what was thought-provoking to me--from talking to my friend and what has been going on with her (for a LONG time)--the parallels between CH and bipolar are so similar but NOT the same, and yet....SO similar... it's almost like when I was thinking about the 2, something occurred to me, but it was as if I couldn't put my finger on what it was, it was too vague of a thought...
but one thought I do have 1) I am thinking in some cases, could CH in some cases be a defense mechanism against the mania or depression of bipolar? In other words, one or the other is going to set in or has begun to set in, and the headaches kick in in an attempt to fend it off in some or any cases?
Definitely don't expect a yes or no answer here, just a thought, food for thought...
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E-Double
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #15 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 2:48pm » |
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Honestly hun,
I was not curious to anything else but your curiosities.
I am just relatively familiar with this part of our brain and how it affects everything.
I was saying that if a person has anything unusual going on there is a chance that it has to do with the hypothalmus.
Good luck on your quest.
I have CH and I sweat a lot.
Otherwise healthy
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I can't believe that I have to bang my
Head against this wall again
But the blows they have just a little more
Space in-between them
Gonna take a breath and try again.
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Portland_kait
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Re: Bipolar and CH
« Reply #16 on: Apr 3rd, 2008, 2:29pm » |
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There is A LOT of stigmas associated with Bi polar and Cluster sufferers.
I have both.
I have wondered about the correlation because sometimes episodes become worse with both in change of seasons and weather.
I just went to the ER on the 1st of april because of having one of my worst clusters. It took them three hours to get me in at the stoke of midnight. That is one of the worst hours for me.
Worse was the older gentleman sitting beside me with the O2 tank the whole time!
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