|
||||||
|
Title: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 4th, 2008, 10:36pm Onset of cluster headache triggered by emotional effect: a case report P S Sandor1, P Irimia1, H R Jager2, P J Goadsby3, H Kaube3 1 Headache Group, Institute of Neurology, National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery, London, UK 2 Lysholm Department of Neuroradiology, National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery 3 Headache Group, Institute of Neurology Correspondence to: Correspondence to: P S Sandor Headache and Pain Unit, Neurology Department, University Hospital,CH-8091 Zurich, Switzerland; Peter.Sandor@usz.ch Cluster headache is a strictly unilateral headache that occurs in association with autonomic symptoms. Stress is a recognised precipitant of migraines, but not of cluster attacks. We describe the case of a patient having migraine for years, in whom extreme emotional stress triggered cluster headache attacks. Background Neuroimaging has contributed considerably to the knowledge about the neurobiology of cluster headache. Activation in the region of the posterior hypothalamus is observed,1 coinciding with subtle structural abnormalities in the same region.2 Genetic studies indicate an autosomal dominant inheritance with low penetrance and an increase in risk of 4–18 times for cluster headache in first-degree relatives when compared with the general population.3 Although the triggers for individual episodes are well recognised, the most important ones being nitroglycerin,4 alcohol,5 increased body heat and exertion,6 this is not the case for the triggers for bouts. Case report A man, about 50 years old, had been treated by us for a decade. He had experienced migraine without aura from his early teens. He had a positive family history of headache, with both his parents and two siblings having migraine. A typical migraine episode consists of pain that is mostly unilateral but with the side changing, periorbital or temporal, and sometimes bifrontal, accompanied by nausea, phonophobia, photophobia and often osmophobia. Our patient never had any autonomic signs accompanying his migraine episodes. The headache would typically be severe, with a throbbing character and exacerbated by movement. The episode lasted from 1 hour, when treated, to several days and prevented him from carrying out his daily activities. The episodes responded best to subcutaneous sumatriptan 6 mg and only partially to combined over-the-counter painkillers or non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. The frequency of episodes varied between twice a month and twice weekly over the 10 years of review. Overuse of drugs for acute migraine had been a recurring problem and attempts to reduce the number of days of taking drugs for acute headache on an outpatient basis proved successful and were followed by periods of prophylactic treatment. During phases of increased frequency of episodes and owing to overuse of drugs for acute headache, the headache had less features and was less severe, but returned to its original characteristics and frequency after withdrawal of treatment. In the past, the patient had used several ß-adrenoreceptor blockers and tricyclic antidepressants, as well as valproate and gabapentin, to prevent migraine. The patient is a non-smoker and does not drink alcohol. A few years ago, he had severe mouth ulcers and was examined to exclude possible Behçet disease. He has hypercholesterolaemia and arterial hypertension, which is treated with pravastatin (20 mg/day) and ramipril (10 mg/day). He is an academic and has held several responsible positions. After 10 years of marriage, he had gone through a difficult divorce and subsequently struggled to maintain contact with his three children. His private life has become quieter only in the past few years. He had remarried and his 21-year-old son had been living in his house for a few years. He came to see us via an emergency appointment in autumn 2004, because of a new, previously unknown type of headache that had started 2 weeks before the appointment. At this time, he was not taking any migraine prophylactics, had not changed his regular drugs and did not use any psychotropic substance, including illicit drugs. "Totally unexpectedly", his son had announced that he was moving back in with his mother, the patient’s ex-wife. The patient described this as the worst moment of the past years, of having had the feeling that "everything is taken away"; he was tearful while describing it. He said, "... during the afternoon I tried to rationalize this ... but it did not work and I had to cry several times". In the early evening of the same day, after an afternoon of intense worrying, he started to have a type of headache, which he had not had previously. The new headache occurred regularly thereafter, with a frequency of one to two attacks every 24 h, mostly occurring during the night and waking him up. This pain, starting abruptly, peaked in minutes, was strictly left temporoparietal and was accompanied by lacrimation and conjunctival injection. Whereas the previous headaches were worsened by movement and he preferred to lie down and rest, the new headaches were not exacerbated by movement, and he was restless and paced around. The intensity of the new episodes was higher than those previously experienced, with 10 out of 10 on a verbal rating scale. The pain was stabbing, not pulsating. As the pain was so unbearably severe, he always treated it with subcutaneous sumatriptan 6 mg, with resolution in 15–30 min. A magnetic resonance image with gadolinium showed no abnormality and particularly no hypothalamic or cavernous sinus or pituitary lesions. Cluster headache was diagnosed, and we started him on a course of steroids with prednisolone 60 mg over 5 days, tapering it down over 5 days. We introduced methysergide, which was increased to 5 mg/day, when no further headaches occurred. Eventually the dose was titrated down to 2 mg/day, with control of the headache and bearable, mild side effects. When the dose of methysergide was reduced to below 2 mg after 1 and 4 months, the new type of headache recurred twice daily, and was controlled when the patient increased the methysergide back to 2 mg daily. During the 2 weeks between the onset of the new headache and the appointment, and while he was on methysergide, no episodes of migraine occurred. Discussion This patient presented with a new type of headache fulfilling the International Headache Society criteria7 for cluster headache after having been treated in our specialised headache clinic for migraine without aura for 10 years and headache caused by the overuse of drugs. A careful study of the clinical notes and correspondence over the past 10 years did not suggest any previous occurrence of cluster headache. Several cases of cluster headache triggered by, or secondary to, lesions localised in the trigeminal territory, such as those caused by head injury,8 dental extraction,9 impacted superior wisdom tooth10 and ocular enucleation,11 have been published. Emotional triggers are well recognised for cardiac death,12 stroke13 and also for migraine.14 For cluster headache, the only reported emotional trigger for a first-time cluster headache is orgasm.15 The emotional stress temporally associated with the onset of cluster headaches was extreme in our patient and he became tearful, even when talking about it 4 months later. Cluster headache is very rare, with a prevalence of about 0.2%,3 and an incidence of 1.6 per million people per person-year.16 Against this background, we propose a causal relationship between the extreme emotional stress in our patient and the onset of his cluster headaches. Clinical or imaging hints for a secondary origin of the new type of headache were absent. In conclusion, we describe a patient who had migraine for years and in whom extreme emotional stress triggered a new type of headache. Placebo effects in the treatment of cluster headache are mediated by information and induce neurobiological changes. In a recent review, it was described as comparable in magnitude to migraine.17 Emotional stress as a trigger, also mediated by information, may be another example that the heritage in research from Descartes, of trying to conceptually separate the brain from the results of its function, is outdated. FOOTNOTES Competing interests: PJG is a Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow. Informed consent was obtained from the patient for publication of his details in this report. References May A, Bahra A, Buchel C, et al. Hypothalamic activation in cluster headache attacks. Lancet 1998;352:275–8.[CrossRef][Medline] May A, Ashburner J, Buchel C, et al. Correlation between structural and functional changes in brain in an idiopathic headache syndrome. Nat Med 1999;5:836–8.[CrossRef][Medline] Russell MB. Epidemiology and genetics of cluster headache. Lancet Neurol 2004;3:279–83.[CrossRef][Medline] Sances G, Tassorelli C, Pucci E, et al. Reliability of the nitroglycerin provocative test in the diagnosis of neurovascular headaches. Cephalalgia 2004;24:110–9.[CrossRef][Medline] Bahra A, May A, Goadsby PJ. Cluster headache: a prospective clinical study with diagnostic implications. Neurology 2002;58:354–61.[Abstract/Free Full Text] Blau JN, Engel HO. A new cluster headache precipitant: increased body heat. Lancet 1999;354:1001–2.[CrossRef][Medline] Headache Classification Committee of the International Headache Society. The international classification of headache disorders. 2nd edn. Cephalalgia 2004;24 (Suppl 1) :1–160. Reik L Jr. Cluster headache after head injury. Headache 1987;27:509–10.[CrossRef][Medline] Soros P, Frese A, Husstedt IW, et al. Cluster headache after dental extraction: implications for the pathogenesis of cluster headache? Cephalalgia 2001;21:619–22.[CrossRef][Medline] Romoli M, Cudia G. Cluster headache due to an impacted superior wisdom tooth: case report. Headache 1988;28:135–6.[CrossRef][Medline] Evers S, Soros P, Brilla R, et al. Cluster headache after orbital exenteration. Cephalalgia 1997;17:680–2.[CrossRef][Medline] Leor J, Poole WK, Kloner RA. Sudden cardiac death triggered by an earthquake. N Engl J Med 1996;334:413–9.[Abstract/Free Full Text] House A, Dennis M, Mogridge L, et al. Life events and difficulties preceding stroke. J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry 1990;53:1024–8.[Abstract] Wacogne C, Lacoste JP, Guillibert E, et al. Stress, anxiety, depression and migraine. Cephalalgia 2003;23:451–5.[CrossRef][Medline] Klimek A. Orgasm—a new trigger factor of cluster headache? Cephalalgia 1990;10:205–6.[CrossRef][Medline] Swanson JW, Yanagihara T, Stang PE, et al. Incidence of cluster headaches: a population-based study in Olmsted County, Minnesota. Neurology 1994;44:433–7. Nilsson Remahl AI, Laudon Meyer E, Cordonnier C, et al. Placebo response in cluster headache trials: a review. Cephalalgia 2003;23:504–10.[CrossRef][Medline] |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 4th, 2008, 10:38pm My mother in law has triggered cluster hits for me before..... |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by George_J on Feb 5th, 2008, 9:43am Interesting report, on several levels. The point made that activity by the brain can cause neurobiological changes within the brain is supported by lots of other research, elsewhere. Speaking only for myself, however, I'm unable to point to any emotional incidents that precipitated individual attacks, let alone indicate any particular trauma, physical or emotional, that occurred at the time of onset. I suspect (without any particular evidence) that emotional trauma is an uncommon factor surrounding the onset of cluster headache...but it's very interesting that it could be a factor at all--providing further evidence that emotional states can alter physical states within the brain. Thanks for bring this to our attention, Annette. Edited to add: I'd be interested to know whether similar case reports exist. One report may indicate simple coincidence, but more of them might increase suspicion that emotional trauma can be a significant factor in the onset of individual cases of CH. Best wishes, George |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by DennisM1045 on Feb 5th, 2008, 11:39am on 02/04/08 at 22:38:43, seasonalboomer wrote:
You aren't alone there Scott! ;) Thanks for posting this Annette. Very interesting... -Dennis- |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by starlight on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:02pm Thanks Annette. I think emotional stress can definitely play a role. My feeling though is that it is a complicated puzzle and that may be one piece of the puzzle. Hey, is that true--cluster headache strikes 1.6 per 1 million people--is that the percentage? I thought it was more like 1 per 1,000--anyone know? |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by starlight on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:09pm I have had CH come on when I was cognitively overloaded (no pot shots there please)--either reading tons all at one time like 8 hrs. in a row for a class (that I dropped) or even when the CH first set in I was working with one of those old fashioned cash registers at a grocery store where you are constantly looking at numbers and subtracting in your head along with hearing constant beeping--not that that is the most intellectually challenging thing in the world but maybe it is the constantness of it--also this is one of the reasons I think Dr. Gupta's article has some merit where he talks about the EYE playing a role--sometimes I really think that both of those things were hard on my eyes (or maybe only on my left eye) although I have no vision problems at all, don't wear glasses, one eye is better than 20/20, but it just seems odd than I can sometimes even start shadowing from reading for long period. I think the eye plays a role. Emotional stress, sure that can factor in, and it must, as it tends to make any physical condition worse. Just my two cents, Star |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by sandie99 on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:33pm Star, what you wrote about reading & getting shadows is familiar to me as well. I'm working on my dissertation and I need to read lots and lots of media theory and I've had to stop more than once because of shadows (in the past, I got hit as well). I do wear glasses, but before ch I could easily read school materials for hours without problems... Sanna |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Kevin_M on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:40pm on 02/05/08 at 09:43:34, George_J wrote:
Yeah, I'd have no idea about acquiring clusters through stress, but already having clusters and experiencing a prolonged increase in stress has triggered an upsurge in hits for me. The beast might find the door slightly ajar in these times; seems whenever you might say, "what else can happen," be prepared when you have clusters. ;) |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by starlight on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:54pm Sandie, I totally know what you're saying. I read a lot as a kid (bookworm even back then) and had no problem, even read in the dark a lot when I was supposed to be sleeping and had no problems at all. The one thing I can say is that it seems like the shadowing and actual triggering of certain CH cycles was possibly tied in to reading very quickly like trying to get a long novel read for class the next day and literally trying to speed read the thing or rapidly viewing numbers and such--I am naturally a very slow reader even though I like to read. Maybe it is how quickly a person reads or who knows maybe even the content like if it is difficult reading--or a lot of thought going on?? Dunno. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by PollyPocket on Feb 5th, 2008, 3:01pm on 02/05/08 at 13:40:25, Kevin_M wrote:
I totally agree. Same happened with me. The reading was a non-issue, but stress definitely increased the frequency of hits for me. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by George_J on Feb 5th, 2008, 3:50pm It's important, I think, to make a distinction here--there are really three levels at which emotional stress might conceivably trigger cluster headache: 1. An individual cluster headache attack when a person with existing CH is in cycle. 2. A round of cluster attacks--a new cycle--in a person with existing CH. 3. The onset of CH itself, in a person who did not previously have CH. What is most interesting, I think, about the article is that they're talking about "3"--the observation is made that a period of emotional stress is associated with the initial onset of CH in a person who did not previously have CH, implying that the brain's emotional state can alter the brain's physical state. If stress, indeed, caused the initial onset of CH, I think that is remarkable. But simply because something happened near the time that something else happened does not mean that one thing caused the other. At this point, it's really just an observation that a proximity between an emotional state and the onset of CH exists in a single example. That's why I'd like to see more examples. Interesting, nevertheless. Best, George |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 5th, 2008, 4:10pm on 02/05/08 at 15:50:53, George_J wrote:
I am looking George :) There is another article reporting NEW episode of CH occuring in people who had never had CH before, although some had other forms of migraine. However, this is not free. You need to have a subscription or pay privately to access the full article. Here it is in case you would like to read it in its entirety. " A follow-up study of 60 patients after an assumed first period of cluster headache. Sjostrand C, Waldenlind E, Ekbom K Cephalalgia, 2000; 20(7): 653-7 " However, below is the essence of it " Abstract: Cluster headache (CH), a primary neurovascular headache syndrome, is characterized by recurrent, unilateral, short-lasting attacks of excruciating pain in the temporal region. The pain is considered one of the most severe pain conditions known to humans. This thesis has focused on studies of the clinical picture, especially in relation to headache classification criteria, studies of the genetic background and a search for pathophysiological mechanisms through gene expression analysis. In Study I we prospectively evaluated the prognosis after one typical cluster period. We found that 13 (26.5%) had had one cluster period only during a mean observation time of 8.9 years, and conclude that some patients may suffer from one cluster period only. In the new IHS classification (2004) only one period is required for a CH diagnosis. " What is really interesting is the follow up study found 26.5% ( 13 out of 60 ) diagnosed with their first CH episode did not have another episode for the next 8-9 years or more. Out of those 13, 2 reported having their only CH episode during the time of severe psychological stress. Link to the full thesis http://diss.kib.ki.se/2005/91-7140-363-9/ |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by starlight on Feb 5th, 2008, 5:07pm George, I agree with you that that would truly be remarkable--if the condition itself was triggered by emotional stress. The examples I gave were examples of actual cycles being triggered (although the one in college fit right in with the starting date I always had back then in the fall), the first example when I worked in grocery store was when the condition itself began. My guess is that what goes on is some kind of perfect storm happening to create the condition itself--predisposition/emotional/cognitive/and/or physical stressor/perhaps maybe even that heart thing that some are said to have. I find what Dr. Gupta writes about the eye fascinating. And maybe the seasonal changes in light are affecting the eye in some way we don't understand...just my ramblings. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by starlight on Feb 5th, 2008, 5:12pm Oh and now that I've gotten off topic, yes, emotional stress has precipitated cycles for me, BUT how do you get around the fact that I like many (used to) have a starting date they could mark on their calender? That's a toughie. Could it trigger the condition itself? Not without a perfect storm--there are other factors involved in my opinion. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by starlight on Feb 5th, 2008, 5:23pm My final thought and I completely apologize for the ramblings: whether emotional stress is a big player or not, maybe when the purpose of sleep is understood more fully then CH will be understood. Why the headaches occur (I believe during REM) during sleep for many, the eyes are moving rapidly in REM, maybe the brain is processing information or whatnot during that point in sleep--it's all a mystery. I would say keeping stress levels down is a good thing for CH. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 5th, 2008, 6:15pm Star, thanks for sharing your thoughts :) Its obvious that there are MANY factors involved in the development of CH in an individual, ranging from genetic, to head injury to stress to malfunctioning hypothalamus... These factors affect different people differently. Therefore while there are some common denominators, there isnt an universal "laws" that applies to all CHers. What I find interesting that it is possible for emotional/psychological stress alone to CAUSE CH to develop as a new condition, as well as starting a whole new cycle in someone with pre-existing CH. This knowledge should lead to a more comprehensive treatment plan for CH, where emotional/psychological stresses need to be addressed/treated more aggressively, which is something not yet seen happening. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by otakuhouse on Feb 5th, 2008, 6:17pm All us mammals are graced with pattern recognition. Especially given the desperation to understand with this condition, I know I myself do silly things like associate an incredibly quckly aborted headache with whatever I ate, or if I exercised that day, etc. And I can find all sorts of connections in that static that convince myself I just have to do this or hold my head this way and it'll never come. But as my neurologist explains to me, it's not that simple. A series of events cause this - some of the pain is even the result of the onset of an attack and not the attack itself as the trigeminal gets loaded up with signals. It appears that there are many triggers for cluster headaches, and as we all point out, some or many of these variables must align for the worst to happen. I find exercise early in an attack will abort, others find not. I do look forward in years to come more research about the role of the optic nerve, etc. My girlfriend has been around me for this entire cycle being an absolute angel, and she gives me a third person perspective I sometimes lack. She pointed out that watching movies in a theater projected on film would almost always lead to an attack. This is really interesting to me. Films projected from celluloid cycle through the projector with a shutter mechanism, creating flicker. If you spend two hours in a cinema, you are actually spending an hour in darkness. For every concurrent frame you see a frame of darkness. Likewise, watching things on a non progressive scan tv during this cycle seems to trigger. This is an image which flickers. Watching things deinterlaced on an LCD monitor, however, is not triggering. Reading is causing (and normally i'm a voracious reader). I am intensely bored at the moment, btw. There could be something there, or maybe I just see patterns. But I think the best thing we can do is isolate the mechanism of cause before all, as the medications we are given do not specifically target that mechanism and have side effects. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by otakuhouse on Feb 5th, 2008, 6:19pm Oh one last thing - This current cycle began while I have very little emotional stress. I'm very happy with my personal life, feel good in my relationships, and just accomplished some good stuff at work. All my reading suggests that the triggers are many. But the mechanism is hypothalamus / vascular in origin. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Kevin_M on Feb 5th, 2008, 6:42pm on 02/04/08 at 22:36:06, Annette wrote:
Individual cases have been published of diagnosed clusters triggered by or secondary to the above incidents, also noting one for orgasm. Experiencing one first episode that started at a time of severe stress is now published. Quote:
More individual causal relationships are being designated as a primary origin. It could also be understood that these being singular case incidents of "lesions localised in the trigeminal territory, such as those caused by head injury, dental extraction, impacted superior wisdom tooth, and ocular enucleation" orgasm, and severe stress (another study, a six-year latency from a lightning strike) that there may be something else in common happening in these individuals, which seems to be the affecting primary origin if such a diverse array of head and brain causal relationships are being proposed. Each incident alone hasn't had much standing yet. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 5th, 2008, 6:58pm on 02/05/08 at 18:19:03, otakuhouse wrote:
No one knows what is the true mechanism or origin of CH yet. There maybe several. Prof Goadsby found some structural abnormality in the hypothalamus of several CHers but until ALL CHers are scanned and found to have the same abnormality, it is not conclusive that this is the origin of the condition. Cranial vascular dilatation occurs in a hit if triggered by alcohol or glycerin nitrate, but this doesnt happen in chronics or in out-of-cycle episodics. Therefore it cant be considered the origin either. More and more evidences are actually pointing towards chemical imbalances in the brain, specifically neurotransmitters such as serotonins, dopamine, noradrenaline, melatonin, etc and hormones such as testosterone and cortisone. Now what causes these chemical imbalances ? Ask this question and we are back to triggers ! If we look to other medical conditions for a pattern in pathophysiology, such as diabetes or migraines or schizophrenia, then there are risk factors which when coupled with susceptibility in a particular individual, lead to the development of the condition. One could say a person is "prone" to CH due to whatever reasons : genetic, head injury, smoking, lifestyles, developmental anomalies .... when exposed to ( maybe repeated ) triggers over a certain amount of time will develop the symptoms ? But then there are people who develop CH secondary to another known medical condition. The perfect example is our own beloved DJ. His CH was present alongside Moyamoya. When surgery fixed the moyamoya problem, it cured his CH too. However others with Moyamoya dont have CH ! :P The quest to knowledge continues ... :) |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 5th, 2008, 7:06pm on 02/05/08 at 18:42:04, Kevin_M wrote:
Yep, that is the missing link, I believe :) Maybe its a recess gene that CHers possess, which will be activated when exposed to a magic formula of events both biological and mental in a persons life time. To complicate matters more, this magic formula seems to be specific to unique individuals. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Pinkfloyd on Feb 5th, 2008, 10:04pm on 02/05/08 at 18:15:53, Annette wrote:
It's not happening yet because this is ONE case report. It means absolutely nothing....or very little at best. What it means is that it was an interesting story and the authors thought they could get it published, adding to their list of published articles. Get published or perish, as they say. I'm not sure what you're saying here. You think all cluster patients should be treated by a psychiatrist? Based upon one case report, you think doctors should change the way they treat clusters? BTW, being a professional and all, don't you think it a bit unprofessional to cut and paste a copyrighted article in it's entirety? Even though it's a free article (for registered members) it's still copyrighted. I think that having to become a member to read it, makes it actually, not "free" anyway. Bobw |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 5th, 2008, 10:57pm on 02/05/08 at 22:04:03, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Its free to register as member and article that are more than 12 months old are free for all members. What is your problem Bob ? |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by starlight on Feb 5th, 2008, 11:39pm Annette, I think that what you have written here is very intelligent. I rambled a lot earlier (apologize for that btw)--I've had these for 20 years--I will say that I believe for me emotional stress has played a role--I am open to the idea in fact that it (stress) could even trigger the whole condition...my guess though is that there is some other abnormality going on, and I do not believe it to be the hypothalamus. I understand why others do, but I do not believe that. I understand it makes "sense" in a vague, unsatisfying kind of way, but I do not believe it. I hope they figure out these HAs...keep thinking. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by pattik on Feb 5th, 2008, 11:58pm on 02/05/08 at 22:57:17, Annette wrote:
You have essentially stolen a copyrighted article without even crediting the site from which you stole it...bad manners and unprofessional. I'm assuming that you got it from the BMJ group. Here is part of their license agreement which may be too difficult for you to understand: Quote:
Technically, I shouldn't have even quoted this agreement here, but you should know that just because you signed up for the free look, you don't have the right to paste it wherever you feel like it. Pat |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 6th, 2008, 12:25am on 02/05/08 at 23:58:54, pattik wrote:
Stolen? I got it through JNNP, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery Psychiatry. It has a reprint there in pdf form available free to anyone who register. You spoke as if I have some personal gain by "stealing" this article! |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Pinkfloyd on Feb 6th, 2008, 12:38am on 02/05/08 at 22:57:17, Annette wrote:
You really don't want to know what my problem is. OTOH, there are some facts you need to know. As was pointed out above, it's against the law to copy and print (in any form) copyrighted materials. It's a classless unlawful act when you don't even give credit to the people you stole it from. When I said it was no longer, technically "free" when people have to join to read it, that means that there are dollars involved in memberships. Higher memberships mean the site can charge more for the ads they display on their site. When they can charge more for their ads, they can pay more for their articles. The people that own the copyrights to these articles get paid every time someone clicks on the article to read it. Even when people pay nothing to read the article, they still get paid for click-throughs. When more people click on, and read an article about cluster headaches, someone gets paid. The more they get paid, the more they want to write more articles on cluster headaches. The more people that click on a cluster article, paid subscription or not, the more that site will want to publish more articles on clusters. If 10 people here wanted to read that article, and were directed there by a link instead of the entire article, then 10 more people would have clicked on the site. Maybe 100 people would have clicked on it. Not now. Why bother...they can read the illegal copy of it here. Saves them time. The site owners will some day sit down in their board room and say, hmmmm....only three people clicked on that cluster article. Why waste bandwidth on something no one is interested in reading. Lets add an extra diabetes article this week. You have done this before and I wish you'd stop it and start posting links instead. It will help cluster research instead of hampering it. Bobw |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by nani on Feb 6th, 2008, 1:04am on 02/05/08 at 18:58:02, Annette wrote:
Which doesn't happen? The dilation or triggers? FYI, there are some of us chronics who can be triggered by both alcohol and nitroglycerin. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by BarbaraD on Feb 6th, 2008, 6:47am Ya know kids, I've been here longer than most and for all these years we've been grabbing at any straw that sheds ANY light on this dibilitating thing called CH. Anyone who finds anything pertaining to CH has always been free to post it (copyrighted or not) and that's always been something the rest of us appreciated and was open for discussion. Most of us appreciate the time the "donor" took to research what was posted. It's also how a lot of information was gathered that's available on this board. Now, with that said, back to our regular programing...... I've always found that my CH occurs when I relax.. not when I'm under stress (go figure that one). My doc and I watched this for a while and it seemed that everytime I totally relaxed, I got hit bad. When I went chronic, I had been thru about 6 months of the most stressful time in my life with "nothing" in the way of CH - then took a cruise and was in the middle of the Carribean on the "Love Boat" with "no worries" at all and BAM!!! - haven't had a pain free month since (that was in 97). Alcohol and nitro don't seems to trigger my CH but the barometer does. Other than that I don't know of any triggers except that I'm alive. Have never been able to pinpoint anything else (and Lord only knows I've tried so I could avoid it!). Oh well, back to the drawing board.... :D Hugs BD |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 6th, 2008, 7:04am So, the step in the process is to build a huge thread where everyone lists those things that have never triggered a CH for them. 1.) Fresh raspberries 2.) Toast with Marmalade 3.) A glass of water.... 4.) My labrador retriever ;) |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by pattik on Feb 6th, 2008, 9:44am on 02/06/08 at 00:25:35, Annette wrote:
Yes, to those who REGISTER. JNNP is part of the BMJ Publishing group who holds the copyrights, even for the articles offered free to REGISTERED USERS. Quote:
The license I quoted earlier is from BMJ, and it doesn't mention allowing people such as yourself the right to paste it wherever it benefits you. The extract is considered free, however. http://i27.tinypic.com/kecl8i.jpg Quote:
;) |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by tommyD on Feb 7th, 2008, 6:30pm Quote:
Really? Where? Bob Johnson and many others have posted abstracts, and there are links to info on this site that folks on this site have written, but otherwise, I don't know of many copyright violations on this site. Most folks post a few paragraphs and a link (this is okay under the concept of fair use) . Posting entire copyrighted articles or more than a few paragraphs of copyrighted articles is NOT okay. In the US, it is actually a criminal act, and both criminal and civil penalties are possible. And money doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it (outside of determining awards in civil suits). It doesn't matter if the copyright owner allows people to read it for pay or for free. Outside the bounds of fair use, copyrighted material can only be reproduced with the copyright holder's permission. And while there is a lot of unsettled law on who is responsible for the contents on a web discussion board, it might be DJ who would be in the hot water. Lets be careful, folks. -tommyD |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 7th, 2008, 6:59pm Alright, I havent posted here because I wanted to spend a bit of time thinking about everything that has been posted before saying anything more. I guess I was enthousiastic about posting new/interesting information that will benefit CHers and personally I didnt think posting that article would cause any problem to anyone, especially DJ. If any of you believe that this can be a problem then you can write to JNNP or BMJ reporting the incident. If they raise a question, I will be happy to respond to them. However, what I want to question is the motive of such a reaction. Everyone here knows that it stems from personal issues rather than anything else. I find it ironic that the same people who advocate the use of illegal substances would speak out so loudly about what is lawfully appropriate or inappropriate. I have seen many things done here that potentially is a lot more "illegal" or morally incorrect such as using someone else meds or using pirated copies of certain programs. I have also seen people being told blatantly to use LSD and to consume RC seeds which are all illegal activities when it comes to the laws. However, these activities have always been overlooked because it is based on compassionate ground. There are people who need these substances for treatment. So far DJ has not had any problem with the laws about these topics being discussed here, I fail to see how posting an article that is free with a free registration is going land him in hot water. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by writer on Feb 7th, 2008, 7:38pm I am very happy to read Annette's and Starlights' comments. They bring an openness that I've missed in the past, when posting here and alluding to the possibility of an emotional component in clusters always brought down the wrath of God from fellow sufferers, at least on me. To say such speculation was discouraged is an understatement. I do believe that in my own case, the trauma of repeated, early childhood sexual abuse was a major cause of my clusters in adulthood. It have a feeling that clusters are an expression of whatever trauma happened very early on, before there was adequate language to express the pain/confusion/terror. A kind of attempt "to tell," as it were. (The work of esteemed neurologist/psychiatrist Bruce Perry, M.D. described on his web site is very specific on the adult manifestations of early trauma.) I would not deny that there may be some genetic or other component in clusters as well, but a personal experience of my own may be of interest: Although I was an episodic sufferer, I was not in a cluster cycle. I had no (conscious) memory of trauma. But one day, writing in my journal, a torrent of hideous memories poured out, and as I wrote, faster and faster, a fierce cluster headache announced itself, even though I was not in cycle. My God, this has to be a clue, I thought. So I found an expert therapist in the child abuse field and spent years reliving the past so as to put it to rest and be able to live in the present. It worked. After 30 years of severe, seven-week bouts twice per year, I am free of cluster for 11 years and my life has expanded with much joy and contentment. This does not mean that child sex abuse antedates most or even a majority of clusters. What it does imply, to me, is that some very early trauma (see the Bruce Perry web site) did occur, and possibly combined with some genetic predisposition or hypothalamic or other dysfunction, to cause cluster. I have other thoughts about the trauma/cluster connection bit I think I've written enough for now. Thanks for the opportunity. Barbara |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by tommyD on Feb 7th, 2008, 8:03pm I must apologize for piling on... feeling grumpy (modem broke and I got gouged on the replacement). As practical matters go, it's not likely DJ or anyone here would suffer any ramifications unless posting entire journal articles became a habit - but med publishers are especially touchy about their copyrights. Free registration or not, they make money from that content. While it may seem odd, in the United States it is generally quite legal to discuss and even encourage illegal activites, including the overthow of the government itself. There are limits - one cannot incite violence, directly conspire to commit a crime, or speak with fraudulent intent, and you can be sued for libel - but here in the States we can say just about anything. And it is a criminal offense in the US to use copyrighted material without permission, though things usually don't get sticky until someone starts to think they're losing money. There are some good arguments for loosening the rules, but there would be little to read without copyright laws. And if you want irony, there are those (usually corporations) who try to use copyright laws to suppress free speech (happily, they usually fail). -tommyD |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Jonny on Feb 7th, 2008, 9:04pm on 02/05/08 at 23:58:54, pattik wrote:
My take on this is.......either you sue Annette for something that is not yours or shut the fuck up! Man, I thought this shit was over when Annette pushed Bobs face into the floor with her credentials.......and he apologised like the assh0le he was. Get the fuck over it, Bob......and have your hunch men back the fuck off......it dont look good on you, sir! |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by chewy on Feb 7th, 2008, 9:14pm on 01/14/08 at 06:05:01, Jonny wrote:
|
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Jonny on Feb 7th, 2008, 9:28pm Are you really that anal that you have to chase me around the board? Yes, I will stick up for Fletcher seeing that hes not here. Now tell me oh great Don, how Annette is hurting anyone with what she did to bring information to this family about CH? I guess you missed everyone thanking her for posting that info on the first page. What a fucking putz, BTW, I will be starting another thread soon......look for it.....LMMFAO. [smiley=grin2.gif] |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by chewy on Feb 7th, 2008, 9:36pm http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/bgull2/3202310120.jpg?t=1202438112 Make your new thread about Arizona. Theres a lot I can add to it. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Jonny on Feb 7th, 2008, 9:41pm on 02/07/08 at 21:36:45, chewy wrote:
Batter up! |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by nani on Feb 7th, 2008, 9:49pm on 02/07/08 at 18:59:24, Annette wrote:
I wouldn't flatter myself if I were you. It's not personal at all. on 02/07/08 at 18:59:24, Annette wrote:
From the Clusterbusters website: The Clusterbusters are a small, but growing, international group of Clusterheadache sufferers actively investigating the use of indole-ring entheogens and other natural substances to treat their disease. Our mission is to investigate indole-ring entheogens as possibly the most effective treatment yet found for Clusterheadaches, and to educate physicians, medical researchers, sufferers, and the public on the efficacy, advantages and disadvantages of this, and other treatments No one advocates using illegal substances. Those of us who make that choice, however, also choose (with DJ's permission) to share our experiences with others. There is no harm, and much good that comes from posting a link to good information. Whether or not one case study represents good info is subjective, I guess. Now, Annette, would you be so kind to answer the question I posed earlier in the thread? on 02/06/08 at 01:04:32, nani wrote:
|
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by starlight on Feb 7th, 2008, 10:35pm Johnny, Thanks for saying (although much more dramatically and probably with a few more swears) exactly what I have been thinking. I don't know what the "personal problems" Annette mentions are and don't want to know (none of my business), but geez can people back off of her? Don't think she meant to do anything malicious, OK she posted an article, don't think it was like some huge gigantic offense to humanity. Chill people! Please :) |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by starlight on Feb 7th, 2008, 10:49pm Writer, I am glad if something I wrote helped you say what was on your mind. I am sorry for the things you have experienced. That was brave of you to talk about that, and I am VERY glad that you found relief from your headaches. I don't think people should give you or anyone else a hard time if you feel that emotional stress caused or contributed to your headaches. I don't see the sense in people acting that way and feel it is counteractive to anyone healing from the headaches. Everyone has individual situations--not everyone shares the same exact kind of cycle or the same triggers or the same treatments that work, some have previous head trauma, etc. for example and all different factors like that, everyone has different things they feel they want to talk about, and people should be free to talk about their own personal situation I feel. Star |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by rolo65 on Feb 7th, 2008, 11:02pm This thread makes me think of a popular old song called 99 tokes on the oxygen mask. ;) I think we would all agree that we are here for help, and if you read threads like this one it will only make you want to go do something else. Some people need to learn how to take it like the preverbal grain of salt. Lighten up and lower your stress instead of aggravating it over inconsequential crap. :-/ The only known trigger for me is hooking up the last M tank on Friday when I forgot to order on a three day weekend. ;;D Rolo….. :) |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by MJ on Feb 8th, 2008, 12:14am on 02/07/08 at 18:59:24, Annette wrote:
Annette I cant say I have ever seen anyone blatantly told to use LSD on this site but then I dont read everything anymore and may have missed that. Those that discuss or encourage LSD use are quickly shut down by all members including BobW. What may be missing here is the fact that allthough you may have seen the suffering and pain one goes through with CH you yourself have never experienced that pain. To understand the willingness of some to find relief at any cost you must first know the desperation we all feel when relief does not come and over and over we enter the depths of hell. Many of the prescribed medications taken are ungodly cruel to the human mind and body, not to mention daily living. When someone offers to share a med unsubscribed, though wrong, it is to save them and I would assume those recipients have had that prescription in the past. I dont condone that but I understand it. With clusterbuster medications I will accept that forever as folks come to question about them. As I was saved so may another be but only if they so desire. (really its not a religion like it sounds) First you have to hunger to understand hunger and the same goes for extreme pain that many of us have been consumed by for so long. I believe that is why clusterbusters exist. That is why many accept the medications, treatments, etc.. that others cant understand. Lastly as a business man in America I fully understand why copyright laws exist it is to protect someones livliehood. Its no different than taking the tools of a carpenter who must build a house and expecting him to continue building. I cant say I have never been quilty of this but I understand it. Two very different issues. just my 27 cents. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by nani on Feb 8th, 2008, 4:04pm on 02/07/08 at 21:49:33, nani wrote:
|
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by AussieBrian on Feb 8th, 2008, 5:52pm on 02/06/08 at 06:47:02, BarbaraD wrote:
CH has in the past been known as Holiday Headaches or Executive Headaches because cycles have begun immediately following the sudden cessation of stress. One of our friends here at ch.com for a long time had a tag-line along the lines of "Stay sressed, never relax, never go to sleep". For this reason I have no problem at all with the suggestion that some cycles could be caused by the exact opposite - the sudden onset of stress. Interestingly I've twice in the past had cycles broken on the spot due to severe emotional upset. One when my father passed away suddenly and another when I was busy being shot at. Naturally I don't reccommend either as a cure but there you have it - stress can certainly be a factor for some. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 8th, 2008, 6:07pm on 02/06/08 at 01:04:32, nani wrote:
I have read several times here that alcohol and/or nitrogen doesnt trigger CH hits in chronics. Thanks for letting me know it does in some. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 8th, 2008, 6:48pm on 02/08/08 at 00:14:42, MJ wrote:
I will PM you the quote as I dont want to start another personal fight here. on 02/08/08 at 00:14:42, MJ wrote:
I have repeatedly stated again and again that I personally have no problem with people using whatever works for for CH. I dont have CH and will never feel the physical pain of it but I lived with it for more than 8 months and the pain of watching the person I love the most rolling on the floor, begging me to kill him to put him out of misery day in day out was also tremendous. I dont think anyone is entitled to say that the pain of one is more or less than the other. To tell the truth, I would rather have CH myself than watching a loved one going through a hard cycle. I have researched into psychedelic treatment as much as I could and have exchanged emails with both Dr Halpern and Dr Sewell on the subject. I have bidded for and won and am currently reading the books "Psychedelic treatment : New evidence for halluginogenic substances as treatment". I have read the clusterbusters website word for word. Personally I think psychedelic substances have huge potentials as medicine but as any substance with powerful mind altering effect, one needs to be extra careful in its use. There needs to be a lot more research done before one can say we understand how it works in a human body. on 02/08/08 at 00:14:42, MJ wrote:
I agree totally about copyright issue and the need to respect it. However, here I posted an old article that is free to all those who register, and registration is free. The site has a policy allowing free viewing of articles that are older than 12 months. Obviously from experience they would have found that most researchers ( people who use and quote articles for their own benefit in their own work or publication ) are not interested in old articles and that hardly anyone would use them. Otherwise they would not have this policy at all. Sure, if I was to be 100% politically correct I would only post a link and get people to register themselves to view the article. I will endeavour to do so from now on. Still what I did wasnt "stealing". The reaction I got from a couple of people was obviously an attempt at personal attack and defamation rather than being constructive. If we are to get nitty gritty, which one of us hasnt been guilty of copyright issues ? Strictly speaking we shouldnt lend a book or a CD or a DVD to anyone, because by doing that, the other person wont have to go buy their own copy and therefore the artists/writers lost out on a sale ! The same with downloading things from the Net. Just because someone uploaded something for you to see or read, doesnt mean you should copy it and download it yourself ? Are you sure you have never done any of this ? In effect, the minute anyone here posts a gif to wish someone a happy birthday or congratulation, is violating copyright laws. How many people here actually own all the gifs and pictures that they post liberally whenever they feel like it ? Maybe two separate issues, but the attitude is the same. My 25 cents :) |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 8th, 2008, 7:01pm Dear Writer/Barbara I am glad the discussion on the topic helped you and I have great admiration for your courage to share such personal information the way you did. I hope you will post and share more. Take care and painfree wishes. :-* |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 8th, 2008, 8:48pm Pinkfloyd, I have a question for you please. This picture of the statue that you have on your clusterbuster site, do you own it ? Did you take the picture yourself ? Just curious ... http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b149/bargainbazzar/statue.jpg |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 8th, 2008, 9:04pm Y'all need to give it a rest..... And I mean y'all. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by StressFree on Feb 14th, 2008, 6:04pm To those who often state "it's the hypothalamus". I must again say, there is more involved. Many threads here have covered physical stress such as illness being a trigger for cluster cycles. Also quite a few threads on emotional stress (fine line between physical and emotional right?) or the relaxation following stress. My question to those who seem to think there is nothing to this "stress" factor, why do many begin getting cluster attacks later in life if it is a matter of a "broken hypothalamus"? Seems to me, something must have broken it then... |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Ree on Feb 16th, 2008, 1:30pm [quote author=nani link=board=chspecific;num=1202182566;start=25#40 date=02/07/08 at 21:49:33] I wouldn't flatter myself if I were you. It's not personal at all. YES IT ABSOLUTELY IS... EVERYONE RANKS ON ANNETTE AND PICKS ON HER EVERY WORD... IT MAKES ME SICK AND THATS WHY THIS SITE THOUGH HELPFUL TO MOST CONTRADICTS ITSELF. IF I HAD POSTED THAT NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED... JUST THAT SHE IS A DR. PEOPLE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT FOR SOME REASON, INSTEAD OF FEELING LUCKY TO HAVE HER HERE. SORRY ANNETTE THAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS OVER AND OVER. I APPRECIATE YOU. THANKS FOR SHARING WHAT YOU LEARNED IN A GROUP YOU BELONG TO AND INNOCENTLY POSTED HERE TO HELP PEOPLE... FOR YOUR INFORMATION, "GROUP" MOST OF OUR AVATARS ARE STOLEN FROM COPYWRITTEN PLACES. REE |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 17th, 2008, 1:26am Thank you very much Ree for your kind words and support and I appreciate you greatly. [smiley=hug.gif] However, its not that "everyone" has a problem with me being a doctor. In fact I believe there is only one person who really does and a couple others who follow blindly. I am happy that since I posted the article, several have come forward to share their thoughts on the topic both in the thread here as well privately via PM and emails. As long as it has helped even just one person, its worthwhile. I hope this will open the path for people to speak about their experiences without the fear of being ridiculed. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by scarlet52698 on Feb 17th, 2008, 1:08pm I'm brand spanking new here but something in that article struck me b/c of DH's history. The guy in the article was a migraine sufferer who developed CH's. My DH has the same history and a month before his first CH he had to seperate from his business partner and best friend due to mismanagement on the friends part. I have been convinced that the two are related for my DH (I could be totally wrong however). I think the previous migraine sufferer part was interesting and I wonder how many people start off with migraines and later develop CH's. Thanks for sharing that Annette, I found it helpful. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Jackie on Feb 17th, 2008, 1:17pm The history of CH sufferers is so very different...or so I've found it to be. As to my hubby....he never had a headach in his life until the clusters began. Also...as to the stress, he said it was a good time in his life when they hit....relatively stress free and happy. So who really knows... :-/ It seems that clusters...a persons history, med. effects, what works and what doesn't, lenght of cycles, etc....is very unique and as individual as the person him/herself. Glad to see you're doing your homework, Heather.....good on you, Sweetie. Jacki |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by scarlet52698 on Feb 17th, 2008, 1:36pm I think you are right Jackie........it does all seem pretty individual. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by purpleydog on Feb 18th, 2008, 5:11am on 02/07/08 at 18:59:24, Annette wrote:
Annette, do you mean when you offered your husband's imitrex up here on the board, and that you would send it to whoever wanted it? And please, send me the thread you have supposedly copied that blatantly told someone to use LSD. Or RC seeds. Where is it in the law books that telling someone to use LSD or RC seeds is illegal? Is that illegal in Australia? I would like to know who you think follows BobW blindly. You are implying that the people on this board cannot think for themselves. Almost all of the people who post articles on this board, always post the source, and a link to it. Oh, by the way, being a doc means science rules your professional world. Nani, I see she bypassed answering your question again. Oh, btw, Don, nice pic. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by purpleydog on Feb 18th, 2008, 5:30am on 02/07/08 at 21:04:01, Jonny wrote:
Like you apologized to Unsolved like the ass hole you are? ;;D And ran him off the board? ;;D And, to answer your previous question, how do you run someone off the board? ;;D By dogging the hell out of them, and telling them how worthless they are, and telling them they aren't family, Jonny. ;;D And by telling them how pissed off you are that that person is sucking away your tax dollars (and they are sucking away every dollar you pay in taxes, apparently), by being on SSDI for the same condition you have, and they can't get any control of, and have it way way worse off than you. ;;D |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by AussieBrian on Feb 18th, 2008, 8:52am on 02/18/08 at 05:11:04, purpleydog wrote:
You can help me out here, Purpleydog, because try as I might I just can't work the search engine to find where she mentioned BobW as the leader of the push. I'm confuseder even more by your allegation she'd send her husband's Imitrex (Imigran here in Oz) to anyone who simply asked. They were free samples she'd organised and qualified that unequivacably by stating it would only be by arrangement with the sufferer's own physician. It interests me that so few people have a problem with Annette's presence here (and get so much help in return) yet the RC brigade are so down on her, so here's the bet - Close your eyes and count to five and tell me the name and/or subject of this thread. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by nani on Feb 18th, 2008, 11:11am on 02/18/08 at 08:52:07, AussieBrian wrote:
OK... I see your point, Bri. So, Annette, would you please tell me who you think has the problem, and who you think follows blindly? If I'm included in your "blind followers", let me just say that I am quite insulted by that. I'm not a "follower" at all, and I'm quite capable of coming to my own conclusions. Also, regarding your question about the photo on the CB site, that's an openstock photo approved by the CB attorney. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Annette on Feb 18th, 2008, 4:39pm on 02/18/08 at 05:11:04, purpleydog wrote:
Why dont you ask MJ or Gator ? They both know and also ask them what they thought about the thread themselves. Also ask Pinkfloyd about what he supposedly does to threads that discuss LSD use ? apparently he moves in and shut them down. However, that didnt happen here. Edited to add : this thread has gone off topic enough, I will start another thread for PurpleyDog and Nani down in the General Board, and for anyone else who want to join in, discussing copyrighted topics, LSD advices and anything else. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Linda_Howell on Feb 18th, 2008, 5:58pm Please don't. I can't for the life of me, understand why you'd want to. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by E-Double on Feb 18th, 2008, 7:11pm bullshit triggers my emotional stress levels. You all need to have a drink with Bri |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by purpleydog on Feb 18th, 2008, 8:02pm on 02/18/08 at 16:39:59, Annette wrote:
I'm asking you, Annette, you are the one who said you had it. Why don't you send it to me? Do you have it, or not? Why would I want to ask PinkFloyd about what he does to threads that discuss LSD use? Why do you think he moves in and shuts them down? He's not a moderator on this board, only DJ can shut down a thread. I think you are confused. Brian, I can quote it, but according to Annette, one person apparently has a problem with her, but also according to Annette, everyone here knows who that is. And I'd like to know who is blindly following this person, as nani does, because that not only is she insulting nani, if she is speaking of her, but she is insulting everyone on this board. And when she said she had imitrex/ imigran available, she said it was her husbands, that he hadn't used it, samples or not, it apparently belonged to him. And I distinctly got the impression that "going through a physician" to send them was a thinly disguised excuse to send them. And she wouldn't be able to go through anyone's physician to send any drug samples here in the United States. We have HIPPA laws. Meaning no medical personnel may discuss your case with anyone else, without written consent from the patient. Meaning no doctor, or nurse would even acknowledge a patient even being a patient of anyone's practice. I'm sure you have similar laws in OZ. However, I do think it's interesting how Annette wriggles out of any direct questions asked of her, and how she states what she has read, and what the majority of people have said on this website, as medical fact. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Jonny on Feb 18th, 2008, 8:10pm Chris, Have you ever asked anyone on this board to send you Imitrex that was not yours and was not perscribed to you? A yes or no will do! |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by purpleydog on Feb 18th, 2008, 9:19pm on 02/07/08 at 18:59:24, Annette wrote:
|
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Jonny on Feb 18th, 2008, 9:21pm Why dont you answer the question, Chris? Why? |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by thebbz on Feb 18th, 2008, 9:37pm That's some heavy reading. I'm all stressed now. oops wrong thread. :D thebb |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Gator on Feb 19th, 2008, 3:42am on 02/18/08 at 16:39:59, Annette wrote:
Why don't you just leave me out of this. I've made a special point of staying out of crap like this and I don't appreciate you dropping my name to bolster your credibility. Since you have dropped me in it, though, the thread to which you keep alluding, but never post a link to was this one: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1195576685 You sent me a PM describing your concern with someone recommending LSD to a person who does not have clusters. My reply was: Quote:
I also sent you the following in response to a PM prior to this one: Quote:
I have made my position on hallucinogens quite clear on numerous occasions, but I'll say it once more. While I do not use them, I support those who do. If it is true that a deformed hypothalamus is the epicenter of our suffering, it is very unlikely there will ever be a cure, meaning the best we can hope for is to treat and control. The hallucinogenics provide one of the most promising methods of controlling this nightmare to date and I applaud those who put their bodies, their reputations and their freedom at risk to continue the experimentation. I hope that one day the idiots who are denying the chance to even try to prove or disprove the effectiveness of this treatment will pull their heads out of their asses and see the suffering they are causing. As to the posting of copyrighted materials, http://www.plainboard.com/ch/chtherapy.pdf This is a copyrighted work as is plainly noted on the first page of the file. Anyone want me to delete it from my website and deny sufferers access to one of the most read and recommended documents on this message board? I think it's safe to say most would not. The one time it was unavailable (when was in the process of changing websites) people freaked out because they couldn't find it. Let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 19th, 2008, 5:07am on 02/19/08 at 03:42:47, Gator wrote:
Thank goodness that line isn't copyrighted..... ;) |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by E-Double on Feb 19th, 2008, 10:34am bravo Mike |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by Linda_Howell on Feb 19th, 2008, 12:28pm Ditto to what E-dub said. You're a good man Mike. |
||||||
|
Title: Re: CH episode triggered by emotional stress Post by thebbz on Feb 19th, 2008, 2:18pm Gator....aid. Rock on Mike thebb |
||||||
|
Clusterheadaches.com Message Board » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1! YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved. |