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Topic: Check Out These Oil Executives! (Read 11592 times) |
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Callico
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #25 on: May 23rd, 2008, 4:37pm » |
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Charlie,
The reason we have not had any new oil refineries built in the United States since 1973[b][/b] is nto the oil companies' fault. There has not been a permit issued for construction of one by the Federal government since then. They have been allowed to expand existing refineries, but have not been allowed to build new. In 1976 Hess Oil, for whom I worked built a new refinery in Aruba because they had been trying since 1965 to be permitted for a refinery in NJ, but were repeatedly turned down by the US government.
There is a refinery in the planning and developemental stages in AZ that has been in the permitting process for 10 years now, BUT STILL HAS NOT BEEN PERMITTED BY THE EPA.
Today in the House hearings Maxine Waters showed her true colors when she said that the goal of the liberals is to "socialize" and for"the government to take over and run your oil companies". Some here would probably think that was a good idea.
Jerry
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"When He acts on the left, I cannot behold Him; He turns on the right I cannot see Him. But He knows the way that I take; when He has tried me I shall come forth as gold." Job23:9,10
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fubar
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #26 on: May 23rd, 2008, 4:52pm » |
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I, for one, welcome our new socialist overlords. 
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Kevin_M
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #27 on: May 23rd, 2008, 8:02pm » |
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on May 23rd, 2008, 4:37pm, Callico wrote:| Maxine Waters showed her true colors when she said that the goal of the liberals is to "socialize" ... |
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Confusing. How can this person say the goal of the liberals if these are her true colors? Is there a quote for this?
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mattscott
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #28 on: May 23rd, 2008, 9:01pm » |
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Glenn Beck to Big Oil,what should be said.
GLENN: Enough. We brought together the heads of big oil. See that big head over there? Yeah, he runs Shell. That one? That runs ExxonMobil. Mr. Big oil, we're here to talk about the high price of gasoline. How could it have possibly gotten this high?
Let me tell you what we've done here in congress. We told you that drilling in ANWR is off limits. We told you that drilling off the coast of Florida and California is off limits. We told you, Mr. Big oil, that there wouldn't be any new leases for drilling in the Gulf while China and Venezuela and even Cuba pursued these leases and have just signed 100-year leases on the oil in the Gulf of Mexico. We here in congress have promised, as all three presidential candidates have also promised, to introduce and pass in the next term a cap and trade legislation bill that will increase the price of gasoline according to the EPA by an additional $1.50. Some people say it could be as high as $5 additional per gallon. Order, order. We have said that we're shutting down oil fields in Colorado. We won't let you develop shale oil fields in several Western states. And yesterday we passed legislation that would let us sue OPEC with the full understanding that they'll never retaliate. Yes. We have allowed environmental attorneys to sue you big oil fiends for future possible destruction of Alaskan Eskimo village which legal experts believe is the same strategy used to bring down big tobacco. We're especially proud of our recent action to protect the polar bear and their habitat which just happens to be where the future oil deposits happen to be located. We told you that you're making too much money and that we're looking at seizing any money that we consider windfall profits. Yes. We have allowed you to drill in some very small areas in Alaska while simultaneously creating very generous environmental laws which have tied up the very production we authorize through years of litigation after you spent the money on buying and setting up equipment. We told you through our policies that we would not allow you to build a new refinery in over 30 years. In fact, this great country, under our tutelage, has even reduced the number of operational refineries by half since 1982. Order, order, order. We have even told your potential competitors in the nuclear and hydroelectric industries that we would send the environmental lawyers after them if they even dared think about building a new plant or a new dam. We've refused to fund or allow the deployment of coal-to-oil technology which has been around since the 1930s. We've told you that you have to make different blends of gasoline, let states like California dictate what unique gasoline blends you have to make for them. We will not reduce our federal gasoline tax. We won't even consider reducing it for the summer months. So Mr. Big oil, tell me why exactly are gas prices so high? Order, order!
Stop. That's what should be said. Thank you. That's what should be said. Instead congress is going to bring big oil in front of them today and say, "Oh, oh, are you price gouging?" .
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Jonny
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #29 on: May 23rd, 2008, 9:24pm » |
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mattscott,
I dont know who the fuck you are.......but, you are dead on my friend!!!
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Kevin_M
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #30 on: May 23rd, 2008, 9:32pm » |
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There does seem to be a small problem with even expanding refineries in the continental U.S., hard to believe I guess. This portion from a PBS interview, December 2007.
Quote:Problems for Indiana facility
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Twelve refineries in the U.S. have been expanded since 1995, but when BP tried to expand their facility in Whiting, Indiana, this summer, it ran into huge problems. BP also wants to refine more Canadian crude, which it says would help reduce U.S. reliance on Middle Eastern oil.
BP Vice Chairman Stephen Elbert.
STEPHEN ELBERT, Vice Chairman, BP America: This expansion is really important, we believe, for the nation and for the Midwest and for us. This country really needs a secure, stable supply of energy. The fields that we've relied on in the past in the West, some in the Gulf, are beginning to run out. We're beginning to import more and more oil from offshore, from foreign countries. And it's a national priority for the country to have a more secure and a more stable supply of crude oil.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Unlike Marathon, BP said it needed higher limits on ammonia and other pollutants it discharges into Lake Michigan. It got the go-ahead from both the state of Indiana and the EPA. BP said it would seldom need to use the upper limits of its pollution permits and would not compromise water quality.
The refining process would continue to take in and discharge 150 million gallons of Lake Michigan water daily. That water is treated in an 11-step process that removes the majority of its toxic pollutants before the water is return to the lake, says plant superintendent Joseph Morrison.
JOSEPH MORRISON, BP Employee: I'm taking a sample of the water that's flowing from the process out into Lake Michigan right now.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Is this as clean as the water in Lake Michigan is now?
JOSEPH MORRISON: Yes, this is as clean as the water that's coming into the process from Lake Michigan.
Pollutants in discharge water
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: But as clean as it looks, the discharge water does contain small amounts of 23 different toxic pollutants, including chromium, strontium, benzeprine, mercury, ammonia, and total suspended solids. The new permit raised the limits for ammonia by 54 percent and total suspended solids by 35 percent. That outraged many in neighboring Illinois.
...Last month, BP backed down.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/environment/july-dec07/oil_09-19.html |
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| « Last Edit: May 23rd, 2008, 9:34pm by Kevin_M » |
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Charlie
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #31 on: May 24th, 2008, 1:24am » |
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It's stunning that some people here actually buy what big oil's lobbyists and bought and paid for "scientists" say. It's similar to accepting the bizarre bloggers world domination conspiracy theories. It's like my neighbor that actually believes what Detroit says: that labor is the cheif cause of American auto makers problems in this market. Egad!
Who is more likely to exaggerate, lie, or denegrate anything that might just make business take a second look at what they are doing to the country..while piling unheard of sums of cash that never benefits our historically patient citizenry and sending it to offshore accounts...big oil or people that have some doubts about what they are told and stand to make almost nothing on this idea?
For God's sake how much more bending over does it take?
Charlie
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Callico
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #32 on: May 24th, 2008, 1:55am » |
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Kevin,
Unfortunately I do not have access to the quotation from Maxine Waters at this time. I personally heard her speaking to the gentleman from Shell when she said that. I will be looking for a transcript tomorrow when I have the time.
Charlie,
"Big Oil" does not have to send those "huge sums of cash" to offshore accounts. 90% of their revenues come from off shore. Also, most of our oil companies in the United States are not U S owned. They were bought out in the 70's and 80's because of the regulations they were having to put up with in the US made it untenable for them to continue as American owned entities. American Oil Corporation, the original "Big Oil"(Standard Oil, John D Rockefeller), known as Amoco was bought out by British Petroleum (BP) as was Gulf Oil. Shell Oil is a subsidiary of Royal Dutch Shell, and has always been so. ExxonMobil is primarily foreign owned. Citgo is Argentinian. ConocoPhillips and Marathon are about the only major American owned companies left. This is not all inclusive obviously, but I think you can take my point.
the bending over we as American citizens are having to put up with comes from socialists and anti-capitolists in our government. What I heard in the "hearings" today sounded more of Marx and Engels than it did of a free economic policy.
Jerry
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"When He acts on the left, I cannot behold Him; He turns on the right I cannot see Him. But He knows the way that I take; when He has tried me I shall come forth as gold." Job23:9,10
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fubar
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #33 on: May 24th, 2008, 3:41am » |
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Charlie... it's not a question of believing big oil and their lobbyists. The economics of it are all very simple. Pointing fingers at big oil as the problem fails to acknowledge that they do everything than can do, within the law, to have product to delver to us. If you could show me where they have fought to limit their ability to produce (and in the process, increase supply and reduce price) you'd have a leg to stand on here.
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Kevin_M
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #34 on: May 24th, 2008, 6:24am » |
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on May 23rd, 2008, 4:37pm, Callico wrote:| Today in the House hearings Maxine Waters showed her true colors when she said that the goal of the liberals is to "socialize" and for"the government to take over and run your oil companies". |
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on May 24th, 2008, 1:55am, Callico wrote:| Unfortunately I do not have access to the quotation from Maxine Waters at this time. I personally heard her speaking to the gentleman from Shell when she said that. I will be looking for a transcript tomorrow when I have the time. |
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I thought the most unmistakable bearing of what she said made very clear she speaks for herself.
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| « Last Edit: May 24th, 2008, 9:29am by Kevin_M » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #35 on: May 24th, 2008, 7:17am » |
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on May 24th, 2008, 3:41am, fubar wrote:| Pointing fingers at big oil as the problem fails to acknowledge that they do everything than can do, within the law, to have product to delver to us. If you could show me where they have fought to limit their ability to produce (and in the process, increase supply and reduce price) you'd have a leg to stand on here. |
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Without being specific to the understood present, there has been a related example in the past making a showing possible.
In a shocking betrayal, they saw fit to capitalize on opportunism,** which revealed in 1947 having overcharged the navy during WWII and afterwards. (Chevron and Texaco, $1.23 a barrel as opposed to other country buyers, .95 - $1.00 a barrel) After examining oil agreements dating back to 1928, a commission concluded that domestic and international oil trade, as well as U.S. and world production, had been artificially restrained and manipulated by the largest multinationals* in an attempt to fix oil prices. Moreover, the oil giants had divided up among themselves the world's most important markets and producing areas with a view to suppressing competition.
Any public airing of the report's findings would have been a spectacular blow to America's credibility as a pillar of fairness and equal justice, offering the Soviet propaganda an unexpected bounty of material for attacks against Western capitalism. For this reason, Truman finally decided to resolve the matter through civil litigation rather than criminal proceedings, there was no way the defendants could escape a guilty verdict as they stuggled to regain an impossible purity.
*the Seven Sisters: Exxon (Standard Oil of New Jersey), Texaco (Texas Oil Company), Chevron (Standard Oil of California), Mobile (Standard Oil New York - Vacuum Oil) Gulf Oil, Royal Dutch Shell, and BP (Anglo-Iranian Oil Company).
from a book encompassing the incident.
**capitalize on: to take advantage of; turn to one's advantage.
opportunism: the policy or practice, as in politics or business, of adapting actions, decisions, etc., to expediency or effectiveness without regard to principles or consequences.
(interesting when combining the emboldened definition)
Capitalism has occasionally snuck in its related ugly cousins.
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| « Last Edit: May 24th, 2008, 8:55am by Kevin_M » |
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BarbaraD
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #36 on: May 24th, 2008, 8:04am » |
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It definitely goes back to supply and demand
We SUPPLY the Congress and then FORGET to DEMAND that they do anything.
If you ask the average man/woman on the street who their rep or senator is - they don't have a clue, yet they keep electing these idiots and these idiots keep doing whatever they want because no one tells them differently.
Until the people of this country wake up and start DEMANDING their EMPLOYEES in DC start doing something NOTHING will ever get done and we'll keep getting screwed.
But that would take an effort and getting off our apathetic butts and getting involved and most people aren't willing to do that.
My 2 cents...
Hugs BD
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LeLimey
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #37 on: May 24th, 2008, 8:10am » |
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on May 24th, 2008, 8:04am, BarbaraD wrote:
But that would take an effort and getting off our apathetic butts and getting involved and most people aren't willing to do that.
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Nope Barb, sadly you are right. You were right about everything you said, the answer to everything is in our own hands but we prefer to sit and bitch and whine than stand up and ACT.
If we all took to writing, phoning, emailing people in power then they would have to listen. While we don't - they won't.
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Kevin_M
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #38 on: May 24th, 2008, 8:51am » |
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on May 23rd, 2008, 4:37pm, Callico wrote:| There is a refinery in the planning and developemental stages in AZ that has been in the permitting process for 10 years now, BUT STILL HAS NOT BEEN PERMITTED BY THE EPA. |
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While there may be other hurdles, local or other agencies, financing, and dealing with oil companies, according to the EPA site an approval went through.
Quote:Arizona Clean Fuels Refinery Permit
The proposed Arizona Clean Fuels Refinery in Yuma, Ariz., would be the first new oil refinery built in the U.S. in more than 30 years. EPA worked in partnership with the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality during their permitting process for the refinery, and the permit was issued in the record time of nine months.
http://www.epa.gov/region09/annualreport/06/air.html |
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Quote:Arizona looks to Saudis to build Yuma oil refinery
Backers of a proposed $2.5 billion oil refinery in Yuma are talking with Saudi and other Middle Eastern interests about investing in the Arizona project.
Refinery backers also are lobbying Congress for tax and other incentives to help the massive project get built. Those incentives are included in a controversial energy bill backed by business interests and the Bush administration but panned by critics as corporate welfare for big oil.
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2005/05/02/story7.html |
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The Saudi's were mum to the approach of investing but financing seemed to be attempting gov handouts, as of 2005.
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| « Last Edit: May 24th, 2008, 9:17am by Kevin_M » |
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Charlie
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #39 on: May 24th, 2008, 9:29pm » |
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BP and others have the gall to place feel-good tv ads about all the good stuff they do for the environment. No doubt you people believe this is as sincere as their conservation research that would adversely affect their bottom lines. Stunning.
In my 60 years, I've never seen anything even close to what oil and drug companies are allowed to get away with today...unbelieveable tax breaks, looking the other way on just about every enviornmental and finanacial regulation...thanks to whole new neighborhoods of D.C. lobbyists on our side. After all this the same administration that hired 150 graduates of Pat Roberston's law school to make sure the DOJ is watching out for us. Oil is looking out for us too, of course. They're peachy keen and you can believe everything they say.
It's pernicious greed by these unpatriotic citizens whose mottoes amount to: "We got ours, you get yours," without a thought of contributing something to the very country that allows such power to private bad citizens. It's well-known that it's the little guy that does the most contributing to worthy causes, not our oil friends making the rounds on CSPAN describing how they are so good for the country. This is 19th century behavior. These people have no interest in anything not directly beneficial to the bottom line. They don't like to defend themselves. It's a pity they have to now and then. They don't do well with well-educated people. They like a citizenry not too complicated but that understands just enough to pile up debt consuming mass quantities.
These guys spend all the money necessary trying to convince the rest of us that they are God's gift to humanity rather than that they are the beneficiaries of our country's gifts to them....Does anyone with a smidgeon of gray matter really buy it? It boggles the mind. They love America but hate Americans.
Charlie
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| « Last Edit: May 24th, 2008, 9:31pm by Charlie » |
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Brew
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #40 on: May 24th, 2008, 9:33pm » |
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I just figured they were in it for the money. Like every other business in America.
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #41 on: May 25th, 2008, 1:04am » |
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I do NOT think the government should subsidize new refineries. ExxonMobile made 10billion last quarter alone, that alone could pay for 4 new refineries.
And the terrorists in Saudi can shove their money up their ass.
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Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half the population is stupider than that.
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MJ
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #42 on: May 25th, 2008, 1:20am » |
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If we are going to complain of the price of gas,
then we might as well complain about the true price of gasoline wich is estimated to be between 11 and 15 dollars per gallon in the US now.
Summary of Industry Giveaways in the 2005 Energy Bill
http://www.citizen.org/cmep/energy_enviro_nuclear/electricity/energybill /2005/articles.cfm?ID=13980
I do have undecided issues with our elected officials providing same with all the spending cash they want in addition to that generated through good business.
On the other hand I have no problems with someone making a lot of money.
Wish I had a lobbyist.
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MJ
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Charlie
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #43 on: May 25th, 2008, 2:15pm » |
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Well....I too have no problem with people making a lot of money. The thing is that I have no problem with the rest of us making a little money. Wish we could do what the feds do to keep afloat. They just print more of it making it kinda cheap but it's useful for other things.,,. 
Damn. I wish I could do that too though.
Charlie
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Brew
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #44 on: May 25th, 2008, 2:23pm » |
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on May 25th, 2008, 2:15pm, Charlie wrote:Well....I too have no problem with people making a lot of money. The thing is that I have no problem with the rest of us making a little money. Wish we could do what the feds do to keep afloat. They just print more of it making it kinda cheap but it's useful for other things.,,.
Damn. I wish I could do that too though.
Charlie |
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You could secede from the Union and establish Charlestan. Then you could print as much money as you want.
All that would remain is for you to drum up a few allies. 
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Charlie
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Re: Check Out These Oil Executives!
« Reply #45 on: May 25th, 2008, 11:19pm » |
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Great idea Brew! 
Charlestan is a beautiful place.
Come on down...
  
Charlie 
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2008, 5:43pm by Charlie » |
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