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Topic: Media and the war {off topic, sorry} (Read 1683 times) |
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RetUSN
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Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« on: Mar 25th, 2003, 7:41pm » |
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For those of you who have loved ones overseas does the media coverage bother you? I'm talking about the way the media keeps telling us troop movements and positions. And showing maps of where they are. I mean I think they are trying to be there with the breaking story, but it really bothers me that it could be at our people's expense. Ralph was in the Gulf the last time and his ship hit a mine, the way I found out was a blurb on the TV saying "USS Tripoli hits a mine in the Persian Gulf...news at 11". Those were the worst hours I can remember, I guess I've never forgiven the news for that. Does the media coverage bother anybody else? Sorry to be off topic, but I don't have anybody else to ask. Barbara
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Jarvis
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #1 on: Mar 25th, 2003, 9:43pm » |
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Barbara Hi - I think the "tripoli hits mine news at 11"type of story is just plainly irresponsible reporting and blatant advertising and that kind of stuff should not be allowed. It is unethical. . I do enjoy the majority of coverage and find it beneficial to some extent. But there is definately a fine line. Like when the reporter shoves the microphone in a soldiers face who is in the midst of a fire fight and says what do you see. If that soldier were me the reporter may have been the victim of friendly fire. Or bringing the families of war victims on air I feel is very wrong. Let them grieve for gods sake.
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Ree
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #2 on: Mar 25th, 2003, 9:57pm » |
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at this point its like the super bowl and I hate it... my kid is there for God sake and his friend is right out front. No I think we need privacy too... I am so afraid the media will blow something... just my opinion..
support the troops love ya sean, tim, toan, steve....
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #3 on: Mar 25th, 2003, 11:01pm » |
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I'll have to admit that 'being there in real time' has made an impact.....alot of people need ta realize what is goin on....it's the real deal.....these "are" the bravest people I have ever known in my entire life...I'm in AWE of them all.....that's what has made the biggest impact on me. But the reporters piss me off when they stick microphones in a solder's face when shit is hittin the fan.....what if a camera dude or reporter interfer's somehow by accident. I also don't think they should be allowed to announce accidents ect UNTIL family is notified in respect to them and even then use some tact of how they report it and when. Pam-Coots-with-thoughts-not-neccesarily-of-this-station
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Charlie
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #4 on: Mar 25th, 2003, 11:25pm » |
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Can't say I'm nuts about news media. The cable channels are in a huge contest to keep you watching. One hopes that the military significance is cleared but that doesn't help families.
The other thing is, it's getting like the child kidnappings and the like. That news looks very different in print. Newspapers are a good filter.
Charlie 
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Ted
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #5 on: Mar 25th, 2003, 11:26pm » |
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Before I get off on my tangent here about how I have seen here time and time again that "we are going into Iraq to give them freedom, so this war is justified," Let me point out and drop what I actually see here all the time. People bitching, not complaining but outright bitching that we have and USE our own freedom of speech in America. That we not only have but USE our freedom of the press in America. That we not only have but USE our freedom of religion in America. That we not only have but USE our freedom from illegal search and seizure in America. That we not only have but USE our freedom from self incrimination here in America.
So, if all that shit is a bad idea for us who propogates freedom, why the fuck should we inflict freedom on someone else?
That all said, Barbara, the maps and positioning isn't anything they don't already know. Only a select group of our media was invited to report on this war and if they gave out anything that would endanger a mission or our troops lives, they'd be booted out and chastised by the wole country. Theyt haven't been giving out any positions that will give anything away. As a matter of fact, it was Shwartkoff (how do you spell that name) who gave the media the info of where we were in the first Gulf War, knowing it would get out there, and then flanked to the complete opposite side, ending that war the next day, and a day early.
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fubar
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #6 on: Mar 26th, 2003, 12:13am » |
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Oh my... Ted and I actually agree on something.
Quote:| People bitching, not complaining but outright bitching that we have and USE our own freedom of speech in America. That we not only have but USE our freedom of the press in America. That we not only have but USE our freedom of religion in America. That we not only have but USE our freedom from illegal search and seizure in America. That we not only have but USE our freedom from self incrimination here in America. |
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Could not possibly agree more on that one, even though I find myself being an offender every now and then. It's kind of like evil committed in the name of good (crusades, for example). The bitching about the USE of the freedom is contradictory with the ideal of having the freedom in the first place.
So, we agree they have the freedom. I agree that controls are in place to prevent disclosure of battlefield tactics, and there probably is reporting designed to juke and psych out the enemy.
Now, where is the line when deciding what is responsible reporting and irresponsible? Of course, "Tripoli hits a mine..." is going to tragically affect a number of people. The sad thing is, it won't matter unless it costs the network ratings... that's all. If it can raise ratings and not get the network sued... air it. Fuck the victims, air it. this is where we have taken our freedoms, and frankly I don't think it's the fault of the law or the government. People have to choose to watch this crap to create the demand and ratings in the first place. Blame yourselves if you don't like what you see, because you can't see it if you don't watch. If you know how low a network will sink to get the 'scoop', stop watching them.
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LadyWitch
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #7 on: Mar 26th, 2003, 2:28am » |
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If I am going to argue with the anti-war protestors that this war is right, just, necessary and honorable how can I refuse to see what is on the television. I dont know if anyone else will understand this, but, if I am going to support putting our sons, husbands, wives, daughters etc in harms way, how can I not watch. Saying now that it should not be shown is like saying yes I want this war but only if you go fight it and I will sit here in my comfortable home and be safe. I think it is time we actually see what it is we are defending and what is happening to those that we send over there.
LW...lighting a white candle to help guide all home safely
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fubar
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #8 on: Mar 26th, 2003, 10:32am » |
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I not saying you shouldn't watch the news. I am saying you should choose your news sources according to the depths they will sink. In other words, you all create the markey for sensational reporting. The news stations are only doing what you want, what you have proven you will watch, what has proven to bring ratings. When those ratings change, so will the reportage.
-Fu
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BobG
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #9 on: Mar 26th, 2003, 12:56pm » |
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People don't watch the NFL or NHL games because they want to see who wins. They watch to see who gets gets a broken leg or who draws the most blood.
Watching car races is all about seeing crashes and fire.
Ratings sell commercials. Commericals equal money. BIG MONEY.
New/young news reporters may have lofty ideas about reporting the news but news broadcast companies and newspapers have nothing to do with bringing us the news.
Follow the money.
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Frank
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #10 on: Mar 26th, 2003, 1:20pm » |
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No holds are barred in the Middle eastern media. But I would expect that of barbarians who still stone and behead people. Yesterday I visited a website that has the Al-Jazeera TV videos showing U.S. POWs being interrogated, and another video showing dead U.S. soldiers with a smiling Iraqi moving the bodies around so that reporters could see the bullet holes better. Also many still photos of dead U.S. and British soldiers. Those Iraqi bastards watch this shit for 5:00pm dinner-time news.
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tommyD
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #11 on: Mar 26th, 2003, 5:22pm » |
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Barbara --
Regarding your original concern... You may hear me bitch about news being supressed by the US Gov and the big American media outfits, but as far as news from the theater of operations goes, I agree that releasing sensitive military info is irresponisble...
But....the news from Iraq on American media is from two main sources: embedded reporters and reporters working from various command centers. In both cases, all information is either released or reviewed and cleared by the military. A third possible source woould be independent reporters, the military calls them "unilaterals," and the last I heard, no unilaterals were being allowed across the border into Iraq. Doesn't mean some of them aren't there, but the mainstream media outfits are working very closely with the military.
Nor does all this mean some of the embedded reporters aren't not a very nice persons, but all their dispatches come through military channels and are subject to review and censorship, as is appropriate. It's part of the deal the news media cut to be embedded.
I, too, thought it strange some of the info of troop movements and such was being released....but it was the US military that was releasing it. Remember that the US is using some psycholgical tactics, misdirection, and misinformation to try and confuse the Iraqis. I assume that any info was released on purpose.
Media outfits may disagree with the military over what is released and what is not, and technically the Amkerican media can show what it wishes. But those who break the military's rules will see no more cooperation, they will be marginalized and all their souces dry up. Break the rules, no more stories.
And I agree with Charlie .... newspapers are a better source of info than TV. For a good look at how this war is playing around the world, check out Google News. (click on the "news tab" on the far right above the search box).
And folks -- remember that "all is fair in love and war." I haven't watched the TV that much, but I have seen American media carrying pics of Iraqi captives, and of attacks that surely killed Iraqis. Haven't seen closeups of bodies of Iraqis so far, tho... not sure what the reason for that is, but I doubt it has to do with the media being "responsible." Most likely, it's for reasons of access...we have no camera crews running around Baghdad looking for casualties.... Also could be because we Americans like our wars sanitized. Okay to see big explosions. Not Okay to see what those explosions do to human bodies.
I hope no one expects war to be pretty. Do you want war without death and suffering? There is no such thing. I feel war coverage should show the death and destruction - on both sides - that war brings. To do otherwise is a lie, and we cannot make good decisions as citizens if we are systematically lied to. Some may be disturbed, emotionally scarred by images of death. But that is the truth about war.
-tommyD
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RetUSN
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #12 on: Mar 26th, 2003, 6:10pm » |
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I've been around the military enough to know they will only tell you what they think you should know. And I know Iraq knows where our troops are without CBS. The incident that I was thinking about was last week, in the morning, a reporter traveling with a tank detail was giving a report while they were stopped for refueling. Now, I didn't see the report myself but my mom and my boss [not the same person] told me the gist of the report was how hard it would be for Iraq to hit them while they were moving, but if they were to hit when they stopped to refuel they could cause some serious damage. It really upset them, and all I could think of was the families at home watching. I haven't watched much of it on tv, mostly I read the paper. Barbara
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Charlie
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #13 on: Mar 27th, 2003, 12:36am » |
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In any kind of military operation, it's what you DON'T hear that's important, interesting, and other adjectives. At least this is what I read.
By the way, am I the only person who thinks calling any kind of bombing campaign, "shock and awe," incredibly stupid? Give me a break. Which moron in the Bush administration came up with this....probably the same inquiring mind that told Bush to call everyone "evil doers."
We're in a lot of trouble, kids.
Charlie
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Cerberus
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #14 on: Mar 28th, 2003, 1:03am » |
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I am more tired of the "spin" put on this war by the american media and certain other sources around the world. I do not believe that the war is going as well as they would have us believe. I do not think that casualties of American troops as well as Iraqi civilians is as minimal as we are told.
I really think that if the government wants more support for this war, they should be a little more forthcoming with the straight facts. I am an American and after watching the 9-11 disaster on tv I'm pretty sure I can handle the truth as opposed to the governments version of it.
By no means do I need to know troop movements, or tactics, or about special ops, all I want to know is the simple facts. But lets face it, the truth doesn't boost ratings, the truth would only take about 15-20 minutes a day and round the clock coverage demands speculation, analysis and conjecture. So in the mean time or at least till the conclusion for this war I'll be watching c-span which has provided the most balanced , un-biased, coverage of the war so far.
On a final note.....If there isn't an impeachment trial after this is all over I'll personally be upset. This is going to end badly in every way.
I support American service personnel but I do not support the administration that sent them there.
Ramon
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Cerberus
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #15 on: Mar 28th, 2003, 1:16am » |
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Charlie...
I have to disagree on the point that newspapers are better than television, the reason is because depending on the political affiliation the paper holds directly effects the type of coverage you will recieve from it.
geographics determine the spin of the stories in it....for example the Chicago tribune is a very liberal newspaper and their stories reflect it and report things differently than say....the washington post.
The only way to get accurate coverage of something like this is to watch and read all of the sources and draw your own conclusion, and still, you will only get what the government wants you to know. Mainly because most of the newspaper sources are the same as the Tv sources. the stories are the same the "spin" on it is the difference.
Ramon
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rumplestiltskin
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What is "uncomfortable"?
Do not open these sources if you you are comfortable with killing in yer name.
http://www.pacifica.org/
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/
"Take what you need and leave the rest"
By Helen Shooter
DONALD RUMSFELD, the US defence secretary, is urging George Bush on to attack Iraq. He demands war because "Iraq has nuclear and chemical weapons capacity". But one of the US's top daily newspapers, the Washington Post, last week underlined Rumsfeld's gross hypocrisy.
It detailed how Rumsfeld played a key role in supporting and arming Saddam Hussein in the 1980s. He was a key part of the project that saw the US supply the Iraqi military with viruses such as anthrax and bubonic plague for use against his enemies.
Journalist Michael Dobbs says in the article, "Declassified documents show Rumsfeld travelled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on an 'almost daily' basis in defiance of international conventions. "The story of US involvement with Saddam Hussein included large scale intelligence sharing, supply of cluster bombs through a Chilean front company and facilitating Iraq's acquisition of chemical and biological precursors."
Rumsfeld was appointed by US president Ronald Reagan to be his special presidential envoy to Iraq for seven months from 1983 to 1984. The US government had come to back Iraq after Saddam Hussein launched war against Iran in 1980. The US had seen its ally, the Shah of Iran, toppled in 1979, and feared that revolution would spread across the Middle East unless the new Iranian government was smashed.
Rumsfeld was sent to Iraq because he was trusted to follow orders without question. He had been deputy defence secretary under US president Ford from 1975 to 1977, Ford's chief of staff from 1974 to 1975, US ambassador to NATO from 1973 to 1974 and held various jobs in US president Nixon's administration from 1969 to 1973. Rumsfeld's job was to boost US relations with Iraq-despite the regime's use of chemical weapons.
In November 1983, a month before Rumsfeld made his first visit to Iraq, US Secretary of State George Schultz was told intelligence reports showed that Iraqi troops were resorting to "almost daily use of chemical weapons" against the Iranians. But when Rumsfeld arrived on 19-20 December, he did not condemn the Iraqi regime.
The message he carried to Saddam Hussein was that the US regarded "any major reversal of Iraq's fortunes as a strategic defeat for the West". Rumsfeld told Saddam Hussein that the US was ready for a resumption of full diplomatic relations, according to a State Department report of the conversation.
Iraqi leaders later described themselves as "extremely pleased" with Rumsfeld's visit which had "elevated US/Iraqi relations to a new level". "The fact that Iraq was using chemical weapons was hardly a secret," says Michael Dobbs in the Washington Post.
On 5 March 1984 a US state department issued a statement saying, "Available evidence indicates Iraq has used lethal chemical weapons." The next month Rumsfeld went back to Baghdad to meet Tariq Aziz, then Iraq's foreign minister.
He again did not condemn the regime for using chemical weapons. On the day of his visit a United Nations report said, "Mustard gas laced with a nerve agent has been used on Iranian soldiers in the 43-month Persian Gulf War between Iran and Iraq, a team of experts has concluded."
Yet the New York Times reported from Baghdad on 29 March, "American diplomats pronounce themselves satisfied with relations between Iraq and the United States and suggest normal diplomatic ties have been restored in all but name." It was not simply that Rumsfeld said nothing about the Iraqi regime using poison gas. He sent out clear signals that Saddam Hussein was a man to do business with.
Dobbs confirms, "The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr authorised the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague. The US policy of cultivating Hussein as a moderate and reasonable Arab leader continued right up until he invaded Kuwait in August 1990, documents show."
Dobbs reports the statement of Howard Teicher, a former National Security Council official, who accompanied Rumsfeld to Iraq in 1983. Teicher admitted in a sworn court affidavit in 1995 that the US "actively supported the Iraqi war effort".
Dobbs says in the Washington Post, "A 1994 investigation by the Senate banking committee turned up dozens of biological agents shipped to Iraq during the mid-1980s under licence from the commerce department including various strains of anthrax."
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"The non-governmental organisations, these people stand up and fuss at the United States because there's a baby in the streets who was killed by something."
Rumsfeld on critics of the US war on Afghanistan, from a transcript of an interview with the editorial board of the New York Times, November
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Peace
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dannyboy
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #17 on: Mar 28th, 2003, 5:32am » |
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Ted, Den, Charlie
Is Waco the same as Saddam cutting someones tongue out? Its not really is it, because Saddam was not democratically elected.
I mean, one thing that we know about bush is that he didn't rise to power in his own country by cutting people's tongues out.
Unless you read David Ike of course in which case you should also have your head read.
I don't know, just asking....?
I mean I know you're right about peace, and I say stop the bombing as soon as possible, but I'm just sick of the age of the dictator keeping his people in poverty. I'm from Africa dudes... It's a reaL FUCKEN problem down here. I wish the next move was for Blair to fly in and take out Mugabe. The guy is coupled on the Tote with Sadam and he's next door
I don't know, I just don't know
Dummyboy
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Charlie
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #18 on: Mar 28th, 2003, 7:20am » |
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Now I have even more to read about this mess.
As they say, we know Saddam has the weapons and materials to make some really nasty stuff because we have the receipts.
Here are some things I've gleaned from newspapers, foreign and domestic:
Halliburton, which didn't harm Dick Cheney's portfolio, is gearing up to make another killing by rebuilding what we destroy. It's very cozy.
I'm sick of Bush saying that this war is not against one man. Bullshit. We have been chasing one man in Iraq for 12 years.
Think this war ever was a cakewalk? Nope. Some generals have said that by concentrating on Saddam's palaces, torture chambers, and government buildings, and trying to avoid civilians, it's likely we have created a monster. Since we let them watch TV, they see how horrible we are, and will be anxious to take us on. War is hell.
What happens after we finish rearranging the landscape? You want to try to rebuild Iraq? What's it going to be like if we can't hold it together? Both the Kurds and the Turks would like to bite off part of northern Iraq and the religious crackpot groups and tribal types are dying to tear the place apart.
I still can get over that adults...and other inquiring minds in Washington, actually think designating anything as: "shock and awe," sounds anything but juvenile and inane.
I watch a lot of BBC on C-SPAN too. Between that and our media, I think we get a fairly decent picture. Still, as someone once said: Believe one half of what you read one fourth of what you see and nothing that you hear.
And finally: Shut up about Waco. It has no bearing this war. Chasing these crackpots around the web is a big waste of your time.
Charlie
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catlind
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #19 on: Mar 28th, 2003, 7:28am » |
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I have no doubt they'd love to get muggabe. However I don't think that Chirac would be very happy about that since he's in exile in France.
Cat
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jonny
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #20 on: Mar 29th, 2003, 2:37pm » |
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on Mar 28th, 2003, 7:28am, catlind wrote:I have no doubt they'd love to get muggabe. However I don't think that Chirac would be very happy about that since he's in exile in France.
Cat |
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What the hell is "Muggabe"?
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catlind
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #21 on: Mar 29th, 2003, 3:18pm » |
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Mugabe is the exiled president of zimbabwe.
If you do a search on google for "mugabe humanity" you will get 8000+ hits on his list of crimes against humanity. He, Saddam, and Osama are one of a kind.
And France is hosting his exile.
Cat
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jonny
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #22 on: Mar 29th, 2003, 3:30pm » |
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Thanks Chick.
............................jonny
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dannyboy
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #23 on: Mar 29th, 2003, 6:42pm » |
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Just one small fact wrong there Cat
He's not in exile.
He's at a conference of sorts. He'll be home to supress his starving subjects in a jiffy.
Danny
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dannyboy
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Re: Media and the war {off topic, sorry}
« Reply #24 on: Mar 29th, 2003, 6:48pm » |
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I agree Charlie, Underestimating the task at hand is universally a very poor start.
Get it right the first time or you send all the wrong signals to the opposition.
My fear too is holding it together.
Not so Funnyboy
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| « Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2003, 7:03pm by dannyboy » |
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