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   Author  Topic: kratom  (Read 5965 times)
durban_poison
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kratom
« on: Dec 19th, 2007, 10:55pm »
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i have found "kratom" mytragyina speciosa, a plant from thailand can provide temporary relief of ch.  the plant allows me to function at work under the worst circumstances. the relief however is only temporary and lasts about 6-8 hrs. i either brew a tea or take 15x extract and mix with water. has anyone else here ever tried kratom as a temporary remedey?
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Linda_Howell
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Re: kratom
« Reply #1 on: Dec 19th, 2007, 11:01pm »
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No I have not.   Lips Sealed
 
 
Can you give us the ingrediants in this wonder potion?
 
 
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Re: kratom
« Reply #2 on: Dec 19th, 2007, 11:13pm »
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     You sell this product.  
 
    Potter
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Re: kratom
« Reply #3 on: Dec 19th, 2007, 11:13pm »
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well the active ingredient is mytragine. its not exactly a potion just plant material or extract. i personally find it not so bad tasting but many find it very bitter. i take about 8-10 grams of leaf and steep for about 15-20 mins. i usually add mint to help the flavor.  it takes about 30mins till you know its working. the first effects is the pressure feeling dropping on the side of my head. then it feels kind of stimulating like coffee with a warm feeling in the stomache. after a hour into it it really takes hold of the pain. its great because it doesnt make me drowsy at work and puts you in a better mood. like i said its not a cure all but great for relief up to 8 hrs depending on dose. i dont recommend high doses over 12 grams of leaf because thats when i get drowsy and a little itchy.  i have a plant of my own but it doesnt produce enough leaf yet so i still buy it from other sources.  i imagine its not good to use this everyday or more then several days in a row because i have a feeling it may be addictive. a simple search on google will give a more scientific view of how it works and many sources. no i do not sell this product.  indigenous people have been using it for centuries.
« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2007, 11:15pm by durban_poison » IP Logged
Linda_Howell
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Re: kratom
« Reply #4 on: Dec 19th, 2007, 11:23pm »
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Go away.   We do not need nor want you here here.
 
 
    You are soooo.....in the wrong place.
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Re: kratom
« Reply #5 on: Dec 19th, 2007, 11:31pm »
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well obviously you think im trying to sell a product. im not, i was doing research and found there were others with similar issues. this works for me temporary. if you guys dont want to hear what others use why would you have this medication board? apparently i rubbed you guys the wrong way.  do you greet all newcomers this way?
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Re: kratom
« Reply #6 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 12:07am »
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I looked up this psychoactive plant on wiki:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratom
 
It has opiate like qualities similar to codeine, and it has withdrawal symptoms similar to morphine.  It is also listed by the US DEA as "Drugs and chemicals of concern" and is illegal in some other countries.
 
I don't think something that works in an hour or so would be of much help in cluster headaches, and I certainly will not be standing over a stove for a half an hour brewing an herbal remedy with one.
 
I'm all for "going natural" but this does not sound like an answer to me.
 
Good luck,
 
Ray
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Re: kratom
« Reply #7 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 12:11am »
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    Quote:
do you greet all newcomers this way?

 
absolutely not.   We always greet newcomers in a most respectful way when they come in here asking for help/advice/ or insights.    WE...who have  seen all kinds come and go...are more or less looking out for peoplewho would come here to scam our newer members.
 
 We cannot be scammed.  We have heard it all.  We have seen it all.  We have been there and done that.    
 
SO?   what news do you have for us?  Please.  We await your insights.   .
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Re: kratom
« Reply #8 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 12:16am »
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Apparently, the stuff can be addictive, with narcotic-like properties.  This from Erowid, which website is no doubt familiar to some folks here:
 
http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal3.shtml
 
Near as I can tell, it is not a controlled substance in the U.S.
 
As a substance with narcotic-like properties, I'm not sure what benefit it would provide to people with CH, without knowing more about its mode of action.    
 
Best wishes,
 
George
 
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Re: kratom
« Reply #9 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 12:25am »
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  Thank you George.    Kiss
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Re: kratom
« Reply #10 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 12:46am »
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I have had at least one other person report to me that he had found relief, using this plant.
 
Bobw
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Re: kratom
« Reply #11 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 1:12am »
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Another article from Erowid, concerning Australia's listing of kratom as a controlled substance in 2004.  Some brief notes are included concerning mode of action.
 
http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_info2.shtml  
 
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Ah! The foreigners put on such airs
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Re: kratom
« Reply #12 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 1:41am »
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It's structurally related to tryptamines. From Wikipedia:
Kratom contains many alkaloids including mitragynine (once thought to be the primary active), mitraphylline, and 7-hydroxymitragynine (which is currently the most likely candidate for the primary active chemical in the plant). Although structurally related to yohimbine and other tryptamines, its pharmacology is quite different, acting primarily as a mu-opioid receptor agonist.
 
Also from Wikipedia:
Naturally occurring tryptamines (see also Table of naturally occurring tryptamines) Short Name Rα R4 R5 R6 RN1 RN2 Full Name  
Bufotenin H H OH H CH3 CH3 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine  
DMT H H H H CH3 CH3 N,N-dimethyltryptamine  
Melatonin H H OCH3 H O=CH-CH3 H 5-methoxy-N-acetyltryptamine  
5-MeO-DMT H H OCH3 H CH3 CH3 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine  
NMT H H H H H CH3 N-methyltryptamine  
Psilocybin H PO4 H H CH3 CH3 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine  
Psilocin H OH H H CH3 CH3 4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine  
Serotonin H H OH H H H 5-hydroxytryptamine  
Tryptophan COOH H H H H H α-carboxyltryptamine  

 
Synthetic tryptamines
*snippage*
Sumatriptan H H SO2NHCH3 CH3 CH3 5-methylaminosulfonyl-N,N-dimethyltryptamine  
5-DAT H OCH3 H O=CH-CH3 O=CH-CH3 5-methoxy-N,N-diacetyltryptamine  
HPT H H OCH3 H C9H13NO2 5-methyloxy-N-demethylhydroxyephedryltryptamine  

 
Could be something to it. I'm going to stick with psilocybin for now. No opiate like anything...
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Re: kratom
« Reply #13 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 9:45am »
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on Dec 19th, 2007, 11:13pm, durban_poison wrote:
steep for about 15-20 mins.
 
it takes about 30mins till you know its working
 
after a hour into it it really takes hold of the pain.

 
I try to be open minded, but if it takes an hour, plus the 15 - 20 minutes steeping time, to "really take hold of the pain," what good is it for ch?
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Re: kratom
« Reply #14 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 5:06pm »
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If it works for 6-8 hours, that is enough time to get some sleep.  
 
It blocks the 5HT-2a receptors (serotonin 2), so I would expect it to work. But it also acts on the opioid receptors, so there is an addictive potential.  
 
Have you tried kudzu?  That also works on 5HT-2a receptors in a similar way, but does not have the opiate effects of kratom.
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailVie w&TermToSearch=9164589
« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2007, 6:29pm by monty » IP Logged

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Re: kratom
« Reply #15 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 8:34pm »
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on Dec 19th, 2007, 10:55pm, durban_poison wrote:
i have found "kratom" mytragyina speciosa, a plant from thailand can provide temporary relief of ch.  the plant allows me to function at work under the worst circumstances.

 
Hey man, if it works for you, God bless ya......keep doing what takes the pain away!
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Re: kratom
« Reply #16 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 10:22pm »
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agreed, what works for some doesn't work for others, and what worked once may not work the next time. CH is an odd Beast for sure.
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Re: kratom
« Reply #17 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 1:56am »
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Everything you ever did or didnt want to know about Kratom.
 
http://www.iamshaman.com/kratom/kratom.htm
 
Excerpt
"Mitragyna species are used medicinally,....,  the West African species M. inermis and M. stipulosa are effective traditional remedies against malaria, the former having also been shown by modern science to fight leukemia. Another species, M. africanus, is used in Nigeria to treat mental illness. The African species M. ciliata (aka M. ledermanni, M. stipulosa, Hallea ciliata, Hallea ledermanni or Hallea stipulosa) is used traditionally to treat inflammation, hypertension, headache, rheumatism, gonorrhea and broncho-pulmonary diseases."  
 
 
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Re: kratom
« Reply #18 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 2:30am »
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Good link, MJ.  
 
For anyone who's interested, may I suggest the section on pharmacology--it gives a much more detailed analysis of what's known about kratom's mode of action than anything else I've seen.  Of particular interest is the section that asserts that the action of the plant's alkaloids on the opioid receptors is predominant.  
 
Interesting substance, but I wonder how useful it might be in the treatment of CH.
 
Best,
 
George
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Ah! The foreigners put on such airs
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The pain they inspire
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Debonair.
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Re: kratom
« Reply #19 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 11:18am »
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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for whatever works.  If this works for you, more power to ya.  
 
It's definitely not an abortive and considering the addictive potential combined with the thought that clusterheads have addictive personalities to begin with, it is not something I would suggest using as a preventative on a regular basis.
 
Good luck and please be careful.
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Re: kratom
« Reply #20 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 4:43pm »
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on Dec 21st, 2007, 11:18am, Gator wrote:
...clusterheads have addictive personalities to begin with,

Excuse me? I can quit anytime I want. It's easy. I've done it hundreds of times. Wink
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Re: kratom
« Reply #21 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 5:53pm »
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on Dec 21st, 2007, 4:43pm, brewcrew wrote:

Excuse me? I can quit anytime I want. It's easy. I've done it hundreds of times. Wink

 
 
Yep and oxygen "cures" my clusters several times a day.  Wink
 
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