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Penobscott
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Alcohol and CH
« on: Jan 14th, 2008, 11:40am » |
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Good God, I love beer! And not just any beer, I love those dark bitter imports and micro-brews that are just chock full of live yeast and high in alcohol. Damn near drank beer every night of my life. But alas, I have had to quit cold turkey since this last cycle started to ramp up. (1st in 8 years) Now I can't say for sure if it's the lack of alcohol or the Verapamil, but I've just come through 3 PFDs with nothing more than a couple of phantoms and a cramp in my colon.
If there's one piece of advice I can give, it's LAY OFF THE LIQUOR! Doesn't matter if it's beer, wine or booze, you have to stop completely. For me this is quite difficult. I think about it alot. I guess you could say I am one of those "functioning" alcoholics. Those people who go through their lives without all the serious reprecussions of alcoholism. Nevertheless, I drank way too much and couldn't stop if I tried. Not until the CHs started up again. I doubt it's a blessing in disguise, and I'm sure I'll start right back where I left off as soon as this cycle is over, but I'd really like to hear from those out there that can relate to what I'm saying. And I'd really like to hear from those who haven't given up on alcohol to see how they are coping. If folks can back me up on the abstainance route, maybe we can help a few others. If I can take a break from drinking, anyone can.
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LeLimey
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #1 on: Jan 14th, 2008, 11:45am » |
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Alcohol can be a big trigger for a lot of clusterheads. Generally episodic sufferer's are triggered more by it than Chronic's but that's by no means a rule.
The good news is once your cycle is over you should be able to go back to chugging Duff Homer! 
It's best to leave it 3-4 weeks minimum after your last attack before trying a drink though - just to be on the safe side!
Hope it helps and also that your cycle is short.
Helen
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Bob_Johnson
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #2 on: Jan 14th, 2008, 11:59am » |
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Many years ago I found a single report out of Europe which said: any distilled spirit was a killer; red wine bad when in cycle; white wine o.k. all the time.
If you want to do your own trials.....
=================================
And a wee benefit of having CH? I suspect the protective factor is that we quickly learn when to stop using.
Cephalalgia. 2006 May;26(5):623-7.
Predictors of hazardous alcohol consumption among patients with cluster headache.
Schürks M, Kurth T, Knorn P, Pageler L, Diener HC.
Department of Neurology, University of Duisburg-Essen, Essen, Germany, and Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA. schuerks@hotmail.com
The purpose of this study was to identify predictors of hazardous alcohol consumption in patients with cluster headache (CH). We investigated 246 German CH patients with the Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test (AUDIT). The average daily alcohol consumption was 6.5 g. Predictors for hazardous drinking (AUDIT>or=5 points; 21.5% of patients) were male gender [odds ratio (OR) 4.15, 95% confidence interval (CI) 1.35, 12.71], episodic as opposed to chronic CH (OR 4.8, 95% CI 1.38, 16.67) and a low demanding job as opposed to a high demanding job (OR 2.28, 95% CI 1.15, 4.51). OUR DATA INDICATE THAT CH PATIENTS DRINK LESS ALCOHOL COMPARED WITH THE GERMAN POPULATION AND THAT CH SEEMS TO PROTECT AGAINST HAZARDOUS ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION. MOREOVER, PREDICTORS FOR HAZARDOUS ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION IN CH PATIENTS ARE NOT DIFFERENT FROM THE GENERAL POPULATION.
PMID: 16674774 [PubMed]
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| « Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2008, 12:12pm by Bob_Johnson » |
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Bob Johnson
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JB1
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #3 on: Jan 14th, 2008, 6:04pm » |
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Right there with you on the dark beer! Good news is you can go back after the cycle ends, if you so desire. My doc put me on Frova and Lrica 2x a day for three days, then off for three days (you can't do the frova for much longer without rebound effects). We repeated this three times. It seems to have broken the cycle, PF for the last two weeks, and I've had one to three beers a day! Like you I'm an episodic clusterhead, usually about 5 years apart (Thank God). Anyway check with your doctor and good luck!
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chewy
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Quote:| Nevertheless, I drank way too much and couldn't stop if I tried. |
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Wrong.
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Barry_T_Coles
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #5 on: Jan 14th, 2008, 11:00pm » |
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I’m chronic & when in high cycle alcohol of any sort is a killer; I’ll go the full cycle feeling like a tipple but know full well that if I do then it’s good night Irene.
When in the low cycle I can drink Stout (home brewed), white wine & whiskey but if I have a beer then I will shadow badly like I did last night, I had the first beer I’ve tried for 2 years & within 20 minutes I was shadowing heavily KIP 3 bordering on 4, Ah well looks like beer is still out of the equation & I think I’ve lost the taste for it anyway.
Cheers
Barry
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mar768
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #6 on: Jan 15th, 2008, 11:26am » |
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I hear you. My favorite thing in the world is to ski in the day and go out for a few beers after. I am in a cycle right now...on sunday, I was feeling ok, so I decided to chance it. I had one glass of beer and the cluster was triggered almost instantly....Its bad enough we have to suffer with these freaking things, but we can't even have a drink?!
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Turts
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #7 on: Jan 15th, 2008, 8:37pm » |
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im rowin in that boat too!!!
regular drinker, say 2 beers a night, 3/4 nights a week, and more than likely, a few more than that on a weekend.
when in cycle i have found that a drink will ease a shadow, in those first few weeks when things are just starting up. but once the actual HA starts a mouthful is enough to kick in a full blown attack from the beast. (He must be a tee-totaller),
i will still drink on occasion during a cycle, just to prove that it is not in charge. but i definately pay the price.
Like barry im a home brewer and id say that there a kinder to your head than commercial beer. (in or out of cycle
TUrts
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| « Last Edit: Jan 15th, 2008, 8:39pm by Turts » |
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'I'm very brave generally,' he went on in a low voice: 'only today I happen to have a headache.' (Lewis Carroll)
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Crappy
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #8 on: Jan 16th, 2008, 2:44am » |
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This is all very interesting, because I haven't been able to make heads or tails of the alcohol-to-CH relathionship to my CH, especially since it's supposed to be such a hellish trigger.
I'm chronic, but alcohol isn't really a trigger at all to me. I was a tee-totaller myself until a few years ago when I fell in love with micro brews. I never touch it during the day, but when I get my worst hits at night, 2 or 3 beers will keep it from passing the kip 5-7 mark. That seems to be the opposite of what everyone else reports, especially since alcohol is a vasodilator.
Zomig, O2, etc. work great during the day, but at nights my attacks are pure terror, and nothing works. Starting at 7 or 9 PM I get back-to-back attacks every 1 or 2 hours until 2 or 3 AM, kip 7 to 9, and nothing stops them. 2 drinks and I can bear them - the pain is still there, but I can handle it, and it doesn't make me dance or cry. Then at 2 am I can head off to bed.
This has never jived with CH to me, so I'm wondering if it makes sense to anyone else? I've gone beer-free for a month just to see if it would help, but all I get is more pain. Thoughts?
Edit: The other thing that happens with me at night is that my blood pressure rises steadily as high as 190/110, and rises along with the attacks. Damn hypthalmus. Doc's still working on that. I think the alcohol helps calm me, which is probably why it helps. During the day it stays under control.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2008, 2:46am by Crappy » |
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Akash
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #9 on: Jan 16th, 2008, 3:27am » |
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I am 24 years old and have been suffering from CH for 5 years now. I have gotten them every year from early december till late january. (usually 6-8 weeks) I am scared becuase this is the 5th year in a row they have come on daily 5-10 times a day for close to 60 days. Anyhow, alchohol murders me when I have a cycle. Whether its half a shot or 3 sips of a beer, I am in my room crying and headbanging for hours. marijuana makes them worse also. Usually at the time of the high my CH lowers then as the high goes away it shoots up and lasts longer than usual. I drink daily when I am not going through cycles.
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rbmb
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #10 on: Jan 16th, 2008, 12:56pm » |
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I am an habitual white wine drinker but can't touch it or any other form of alcohol when in cycle....believe me, I've experimented and any kind of alcohol, no matter how little, just kills me. Within 5 minutes I'm pacing the floor, holding my eye and cursing myself for doing something so stupid. So, when in cycle, I just give it up. I miss my wine alot at first but after a couple of weeks I don't really think about it much. Once the cycle is over, however, I'm back to 2-3 glasses in the evenings. I suppose this makes me a borderline functioning alcoholic, although I don't drink until I'm slurring my words or having trouble walking....just to a warm buzz. I am sure my liver enjoys the break when I go into cycle and take a break from the wine for awhile. I'm in a long headache free period right now.....wonder how long it will last?
Rich
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Akash
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #11 on: Jan 16th, 2008, 9:38pm » |
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has anyone heard of CH going away permanently? and why is there not more info on them? why do my doctors not know anything about them? When was the first documentation of this? Is it a new syndrome? I have been getting CH every year for 2 months in the same 2 months. Dec-Jan. Will this last me the rest of my life?
Hell hath no wrath like CH
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Brew
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #12 on: Jan 16th, 2008, 10:58pm » |
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on Jan 16th, 2008, 9:38pm, Akash wrote:has anyone heard of CH going away permanently? and why is there not more info on them? why do my doctors not know anything about them? When was the first documentation of this? Is it a new syndrome? I have been getting CH every year for 2 months in the same 2 months. Dec-Jan. Will this last me the rest of my life?
Hell hath no wrath like CH |
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You should start a new thread with this question on the CH Specific board. Hardly anybody will see it here.
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Brew
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #13 on: Jan 16th, 2008, 11:04pm » |
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Ya know, I just quit drinking altogether about two years ago - not because I felt I had a problem with alcohol, but because all aspects of my life seemed to be simpler without it. I don't miss it, and it doesn't complicate my CH anymore.
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LarryM
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #14 on: Jan 17th, 2008, 11:35pm » |
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Once replied to a MD who was trying half heartedly to help ( as in reading about CH for the first time while he examined me) if I was drinking alcoholic beverages. I told him at the present I would rather drink urine, he didn't appreciate my sarcasm. He felt a total lack of proper respect on my part.Secrets revealed, I don't like doctors as a rule though some are excellent. Ever check the alcohol content of mouthwash, during the worst of the worst it could be a trigger for me.
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mudplugga
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #15 on: Mar 6th, 2008, 12:39pm » |
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I'm not so sure about the link between ch and alcohol, not for me anyway.
I was chronic for about 20 years and I'm now periodic for about 10 years.
I went teetotal for maybe 15 years, spanning both types of ch, and I can't remember, or see any difference at all.
I think it has something to do with relaxation for me, and alcohol helps me relax.
Most evenings now, I'm in a periodic cluster, I will get a ch whether I drink red wine at home with my evening meal or not.
If I go out to a bar and drink with friends, I don't get ch.
I think the difference is that going out keeps me more alert and active by standing and talking and moving from bar to bar.
At home I sit down and relax - and the ch appears.
I've talked about this with my wife, who says I drink too much anyway  and she agrees. My worst time was when I was teetotal.
Dave
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kevmd
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #16 on: Mar 6th, 2008, 1:44pm » |
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shhhhhh!!!!!! stop the beer talk as I miss it so much. I am targeting St. Patty's day. Mmmmmmmmm beer!! Haven't had a beer since the end of January. I really really miss beer. And my Southern Comfort. Drooling all over my keyboard thinking about it
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washed-out
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #17 on: Mar 7th, 2008, 5:25pm » |
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I am chronic (if it are CH, I am not diagnosed in 100%) and even small glass of beer can start attack for me... (or even usually starts). I remember that I had one of the worst attacks ever after drinking ~0.3 litre of pretty weak beer. one day i drank small wine-glass of red wine - the same...
(btw i am still looking for some 'food triggers'. i realised that i got attacks after eating pizza... though i don't remember any after mushrooms, cheese, bacon, tomato separately)
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purpleydog
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #18 on: Mar 8th, 2008, 1:24am » |
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When I was episodic, alcohol would trigger me. After I became chronic, I can drink anything except tequila, that gives me bad shadows, and it's not worth it.
I don't drink much, I'll have a drink once in a great while, or if I do spend the night having a few, I have no problems whatsoever. One of the benefits of being chronic, I guess.
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mudplugga
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #19 on: Mar 9th, 2008, 6:19pm » |
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I generally drink between one large glass of red wine, sometimes two ( nearly half a bottle ) or a couple of cans of Guinness most nights with my evening meal. It's not often I have a day without a drink, but I sometimes do and it doesn't bother me.
On a Friday night my wife and I go out for a curry at our usual place and I drink a whole bottle of red wine over about 3 hours. ( I would drink less, but by the glass it's expensive )
If that's a drink problem then that's another story, I do have an addictive nature so 'we' keep an eye on my intake. It's been worse.
But I also spent about 10 years teetotal believing that the chronic ch was made worse by alcohol.
This Thursday I was brought home from work in bits with ch in the morning. I had another Thursday night, without any alcohol prior.
I had ch Friday morning, ( three 7's in a row ) but felt ok in the evening so we went for a curry, and a whole bottle of wine - no ch.
Saturday evening I had a regular glass of red, the size you'd get in a pub, and about 2 hours later I had a Kip3.
Tonight I had two big glasses, and nothing so far.
I'm not doubting that some people are triggered by alcohol, but I'm sure that it has more to do with the extent of my tiredness / relaxation than any particular external trigger.
On Thursday and Friday morning I was very tired from a bad nights sleep ( I have aponea and night terrors ) I think this is more likely my trigger.
Perhaps this might be another thing to explore for other people?
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| « Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2008, 6:25pm by mudplugga » |
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Trooper
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #20 on: Mar 15th, 2008, 2:09am » |
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Alcohol will always trigger a headache for me and I also have found it harder to abort the ha if I have been drinking. Last year I was in cycle right before My husband and I got married. We were having a big engagement party at a bar and I was really bummed that I was not going to be able to drink. I read a post on here from someone talking about taking imitrex before drinking to keep from getting hit. I would not do this all the time as it seems a bit reckless and dangerous but this was a special event for me. I took an Imitrex pill before we went out and it worked. No headach or hangover.
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George_J
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #21 on: Mar 15th, 2008, 2:13am » |
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I don't mind a beer or two in normal circumstances, but when I'm in cycle, I'd rather flatten my big toe with a three-pound hammer.
Ain't happening when I'm in cycle. No how, no way.
Best,
George
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Trooper
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #22 on: Mar 16th, 2008, 12:40am » |
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Here is a link that may shed a little light on this subject.
alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/26/2/155.pdf
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Guido
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #23 on: Mar 16th, 2008, 1:15am » |
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brewcrew has the answer. It is quite simple, no alcohol no problem. If you can't stay way from alcohol then you most probably do have another problem. There is NOTHING functional about that.
Sorry to sound like a hard ass, but I spent 33 years singing similar songs. Quit foolin yourself.
Guido.
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Crappy
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #24 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 6:40am » |
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Trooper: Your link doesn't shed much light to anyone, since nobody can view the article (or even an abstract) without a special account. Maybe you could summarize the article and explain what light it sheds.
I appreciate the posts by mudplugga and purpleydog. My main concern back in January was that my neuro had missed some primary diagnosis, since reasonable amounts of alcohol do not act as a trigger for me, and in fact seemed to help at times. Since only one in ten CHers are chronic, it's sometimes difficult to distinguish the differences, but there most definitely are some.
My worst hits are every evening and night, but especially the two k9s I get at 11pm and 1 am. When I couldn't handle them anymore, and before my diagnosis, I gave in and drank a few nights a week (always after midnight). These night time hits come along with hypertensive "crisis," meaning my BP raises above 180 (as high as 200). I've been thinking that alcohol reduces my hits only because it relaxes and reduces the hypertensive crisis, which seems to be the true trigger (or related to it). Vasodilation is body-wide, reducing overall blood pressure as I've measured it. This seems to make the worst nights liveable. Still, I force myself to go through the hell of 2 kip 7s and then 2 kip 9s each week a few nights in a row just to make sure alcohol doesn't make things worse.
I had never allowed my wife to see my go through anything worse than a kip 7. My sister-in-law saw some CH videos on YouTube and told her about them, so she secretly stayed up one night and watched me go through my nightly hell. After witnessing that, on the nights when I refused to drink SHE started telling me to have a few, although I know enough about dependance and rebound headaches to limit it.
Any other chronics out there with similar experience?
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