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mudplugga
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #25 on: Mar 20th, 2008, 8:04am »
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For the last week or so I have drunk very little, which I think is down to the Kudzu that I'm trying ( interesting drug ) which I think could work well for anyone with a drink problem.
 
I enjoy a drink, but extremely rarely get falling over drunk, it was about 15 years ago when I was last that smashed. But I drink most days and have a reasonable tolerance to alcohol. I can drink a 13% bottle of red wine over a 2 to 3 hour period with a meal and still behave myself.  Wink
 
But the kudzu seems to have the effect of making me lose the desire to drink, it's taken away that expectation of the pleasure that I had before.  
And although I have an addictive personality ( smoked for over 30 years, have various OCD problems and sex addiction ) I, and my wife, realise this and make sure alcohol doesn't become another addiction, but the kudzu still seems to have had an effect on the desire to drink.
 
Has it had an effect on the ch?  
I really don't know. CH is such a variable beast and I find it impossible to quantify what works and what doesn't. Which is the reason I have stayed off prescription drugs for the last 2 cluster periods, I really couldn't tell what worked, what didn't or what actually made it worse.
Which to a degree is the same with alcohol, but last night I had a glass of red wine and experienced nothing more than a very mild shadow about 3 hours later, which according to my diary is the same as the last few days when I didn't drink.
 
Having lived in this body for the last 54 years I am however convinced that it plays tricks on me.
For as long as I can remember I have had sneezing fits for no apparent reason, other than it might be hereditary because my old man does the same.
I can start sneezing anywhere, anytime without any trigger that I can identify. Deserts, frozen wasteland, air conditioned planes and rooms, in the shower or whatever, 'something' in my body tells me to sneeze violently and do it for minutes at a time. Is a similar mechanism at work with my ch?
I think it's possible for a purely internal trigger to kick in and have an effect on our body. In nearly 35 years of ch I have tried cutting out every suspected trigger with no effect at all. I've seen doctors, neurologists, chiropractors and every quack who promised salvation without any success at all in preventing or lessening the frequency of attacks. The only relief I have found is O2, I drink Red Bull but it might just be the cold drink that helps, it's that randomness of ch again.
 
I'm not disputing that some people do identify triggers, I wish I could.
I just think that maybe some of us could be spending too much time and stressful effort on looking for something that might remain illusive.  
« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2008, 8:04am by mudplugga » IP Logged
debOUCH
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #26 on: Mar 20th, 2008, 6:48pm »
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[.
 
I
But the kudzu seems to have the effect of making me lose the desire to drink, it's taken away that expectation of the pleasure that I had before.  
 
Medicine
Studies have shown that kudzu can reduce both hangovers and alcohol cravings.[4][5][6] A person who takes kudzu, will still drink alcohol; however, they will consume less than if they had not taken kudzu.[7] The mechanism for this is not yet established, but it may have to do with both alcohol metabolism and the reward circuits in the brain. The Harvard Medical School is studying kudzu as a possible way to treat alcoholic cravings, by turning an extracted compound from the herb into a medical drug.[8]
 
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superhawk2300
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #27 on: Mar 20th, 2008, 11:57pm »
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Alcohol has never, ever triggered a CH in me that I can remember. I used to be quite a drinker and no matter how much I pounded it never was an issue (regarding my CH, that is, other things not so much)
 
My friend has one beer over an entire evening and the beast kicks his balls worse than ever he says.
 
Maybe he's just a wuss. I've have to point that out to him later.........
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mudplugga
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #28 on: Mar 21st, 2008, 8:00pm »
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Well it's now 4 hours since I had a hot lamb Jalfreizi curry and a few bottles of Cobra lager, and so far all I feel is GOOD!  Grin
Maybe I'm tempting fate, who knows? Perhaps I'll be on the floor in a heap before the night is finished?
 
But what are the chances of that happening to me anyway? Pretty high at the moment, so it's a risk that I'm willing to take based on the utter randomness of my ch and over 30 years of fruitlessly searching for triggers.
 
The kudzu is interesting, it certainly has changed my desire to drink, and I definitely drank less than usual.
But I still enjoyed the beers and they tasted fine. It certainly doesn't work by making alcohol nasty.
I can imagine that a great many people with alcohol problems would benefit greatly from kudzu, a friend of mine who is struggling to stay sober will be getting a free sample from me for a start.
 
I have no idea at all if it's actually helping the ch though, but reading about the way it works on the brain, in the same area as LSD and shrooms, I tend to think it is probably doing something. I certainly hope so because it's easy, relatively cheap and I'm having no side effects from it, and I have a shedload of allergies.
 
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #29 on: Mar 21st, 2008, 8:06pm »
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Now you do realise if you'd said Lamb rogan I'd have had to kill you don't you? You had a lucky escape!  
 
I'm very pleased to hear the kudzu is working well for you, long may it continue!
 
I am chronic and have never been triggered by alcohol although red wine WILL give me a "normal" headache pretty quickly. I rarely drink it anymore for fear of anything worse which is a shame but it's an easy sacrifice.
 
I can't explain it but I "know" when I can or can't drink. If I fancy a drink I'll have one but when my head is bad I find alcohol absolutely repellant so I don't know if it WOULD trigger a hit for me then or not. I'm not about to find out either!
 
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mudplugga
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #30 on: Mar 22nd, 2008, 12:14pm »
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I had a 6 in the early hours of the morning that lasted maybe 2 hours, but for the last week or so that's become normal.
And it was about 8 hours after drinking a couple of bottles of beer.  
I think by that time I would barely register on a breathalyser, and if alcohol was going to have an adverse effect then it would happen sooner than that.
 
I'd be interested to hear how rapidly a ch comes on for those that are alcohol triggered.
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #31 on: Mar 22nd, 2008, 1:09pm »
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My friend who alcohol is a trigger for, can drink one beer, with dinner, and later that night at the ususal time (2 -3 AM) get the biggest hit of his life.  
 
He's tried it enough times, "semi-scientificly" to be sure of the effect for him.
 
It doesn't appear to be a situation that the hits come on becasue the booze is still in you, but that it triggered the conditon that will be a CH later, much earier.
 
Same holds true for me and my triggers. I don't get a CH any sooner when I play with my triggers, it just makes sure that I do get one when it is due, and it will be bigger than it would have been.
 
I hate to put it this way, and I don't know you, BUT
 
It seems to me that either you have an alcohol problem or your CH hits must be the most tolerable ones on the planet and you're mis judging the kip scale.
Ask most people and they would rather smash a finger with a hammer than take a full CH hit. I know of know one who simply loves the taste of beer (or ANYTHING - lets leave out the booze part for now) so much they would endure CH hits to eat that item.
 
Like-wise, the toll the abortives take on the body and pocket book along make those the most expensive beers you'll ever drink. I do not beleive it is a "taste" thing.
 
I can't think of any of my favorite things I'd insit on having if they cuased my hits. I live to play NFL rules tackle football. Exersize is a trigger for me. I am just coming out of cycle. No football for me in the fall this year. Do you have a year round committment to beer stronger than my committment to train and play football. I woud doubt it.
 
You may want to check out that river in Egypt.
 
Good luck to you buddy. I hope things work out for you.
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #32 on: Mar 22nd, 2008, 2:52pm »
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Superhawk, I'm not offended by your comments at all, I'm thinking out loud and hoping to provoke some discussion.
 
My kip 10's have seen me dragged from the kitchen to the living room so I do less injury to my head. There's carpet in the living room and hard tiles in the kitchen.  
During the 25 years of chronic ch I tried everything imaginable, and denied myself all manner of things, systematically, in the effort to find a trigger. I found nothing.
I have diaries and charts, I drove my doctor mad, and nearly drove my wife out of the door.
Friends and workmates have taken me to A&E because of their concern.
And looking at the few available video's on Utube I believe my use of the Kip scale is pretty much in line with other peoples.
 
Since I went episodic about 6 or 7 years ago I have experienced very few screamers though, the majority are 5-6 and under, which are ( for me anyway ) much more tolerable. I just get more of them daily than when I was chronic.
 
Am I in denial about my drinking? I don't think so. There's a few alcoholics in our family, my father for one, and I come into contact with many others in my role as a counsellor to sexual abuse survivors.
Like I said earlier, I keep an eye on it. At the moment it's a pleasure.
 
So, why am I banging on about it?
Mainly because I believe there is a possibility that people can get hung up on looking for something, a trigger maybe, that might not be there. I went teetotal for over ten years and according to my diaries it made no difference.
I've given up smoking, no difference. All manner of foods and drinks, no difference.
 
I have severe allergies  to bee stings, nuts, feverfew and penicillin, so I know my body is capable of being triggered. I don't deny the effect of triggers or the fact that many ch sufferers have identifiable triggers. I've tried to identify mine and can't, so I'm left with a choice of accepting that either any external triggers are extremely rare or illusive ( or I'm too dumb to find them  Wink ) or my triggers are internal, similar to the sneezing fit triggers I mentioned earlier.
 
The other driver of my thinking and behaviour is that I refuse to roll over and be beaten.
I spent way too long arranging my life, our lives, around my ch. ( and other issues I won't bore you with  Roll Eyes )  
I refuse to do that now, if I'm between individual attacks in my ch periods then I will live my life to the full.
Of course that entails making a balance between prevention ( kudzu ) dealing with it ( o2 ) and the level of pain / frequency that I'm willing to put up with, and where I am now is pretty close to that. I have had terrible side effects from prescribed, misprescribed drugs, herbal and alternative remedies. I nearly had my right arm paralysed by a chiropractor who assured me that he could cure my headaches by pulling my head off!
That kind of stuff is now past the balance point for me, I want a decent quality of life in the good periods, and I'll put up with a bit more in the bad.
 
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #33 on: Mar 23rd, 2008, 12:28am »
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When I was episodic, I had two triggers I could identify. One was alcohol in any form, beer, wine, or liquor. The other was cigarette smoke.
 
When I was in cycle, and I had a drink, I would get hit almost immediately. When I realized alcohol was setting me off, I stopped drinking while in cycle. Cigarette smoke would do the same, so I stayed away from smokers as much as possible.
 
As I mentioned before, after becoming chronic, neither triggered me. I've smoked on and off for the last 35 years, mostly off, but now I'm on again, no problems. I have no idea what triggers me now, except sometimes when I'm under a lot of stress. And I had an unknown sinus infection put me into a major "mini" cycle last year, with shadows in the 7 to 8 range, and hits in the 9 to 10 range, back to back, for 4 days straight, until I could contact my neuro (I was out of state) and get a pred taper called in to stop it.
 
After I got home, about a week later it happened again. I finally got the sinus infection cleared up, after another pred taper, the trex and O2 weren't working. Since then, I've been back to my normal twice a day, or more, hits. Who knows what sets those off.
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #34 on: Mar 23rd, 2008, 5:20am »
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Alcohol is a trigger for me, and if I am in cycle it is going to bring on a cluster and one to two sips is enough and I get hit within 5 minutes.  
More often than not if I am not in cycle and I drink I will still get mild to moderate h/a which I am often willing to tolerate.  It will usually go away on its own.  That may be a thing of the past though, who knows.  My drinking days may be over Sad Sad Sad  I used to wonder if I was just allergice to something in there, LOL.  Aleve cold and sinus worked wonders, along with a nice margarita Grin
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #35 on: Mar 24th, 2008, 3:35pm »
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I find that, when I am in in a cluster cycle, alcohol is not a problem. But when a cycle is approaching it can bring it on fast, and when in a cycle, any amount, even breathing the vapors of rubbing alcohol, will start a series of headaches that are quite a bit worse than if alcohol wasn't involved. So I never, ever drink during a cycle. I've found that going out and not drinking is a whole different experience. It's still easier to get to know people when they're drinking, even if I am not.
 
I've also had the same experience with msg as well as free glutamic acid, such as is found in sharp cheddar cheese. I avoid all foods with glutamic acid. Once a cycle started the day of a visit to a Chinese buffet.
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #36 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 1:50pm »
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Like all of you, or anyway most of you, I'm a big alcohol fan (unfortunately my fav is red wine).  However, Larry M even if your doctor didn't appreciate your sarcasm re: rather drinking urine during a cycle I loved it!  I don't even know if I believe in triggers - when I've had a cycle, I get headaches once/twice per day for about 3-4 weeks, then they taper off to every other day and quit entirely for at least a year.  It doesn't seem to matter what I do or don't do.  This seems quite mild compared to many of you, so I may quit being such a big baby about it!  Anyway, I am terrified of alcohol during a cycle, as much as I miss it.  I'm heading into the end of week 4 now, and had p/f days on Saturday and Monday, so am filled with optimism.  I have the flu, but it's really hard to care when you compare that to a CH!  
 
ps. in response to permanent relief - I had no CH's for 19 YEARS after 10 years of annual episodes.  Thought I was done for good.  But this year has changed everything.  I am thinking about adding semiannual trips to Amsterdam into my budget.
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #37 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 7:51pm »
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Rosebuddy, try the kudzu.
 
It takes away the interest in alcohol, how I don't know but it does. I've hardly drunk anything for about 2 weeks, well a whole lot less than usual anyway.  Roll Eyes
 
Does it have a beneficial effect on the ch? I still don't know, we're dealing with a random complaint here.
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #38 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 11:18pm »
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Hi,
 
I have never been much of a drinker, but if I'm in cycle,
I am not telling tales when I say that the smell of alcohol will trigger a hit.  At my daughters birthday last year, my wife made a rum cake and I had a single piece, and I was in agony for hours afterward.
 
Being in cycle now, I'm very careful about triggers.
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #39 on: Mar 27th, 2008, 1:05pm »
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What really blows is that I just ended a cycle last (Thursday/Friday?) and have not seen the beast since then. I had a few drinks this weekend and nothing happened. I thought I had kicked the beast in the balls....(until next time)...
 
Then last night, I grab a sixer of my favorite microbrew on the way home to enjoy TWO with dinner and that BASTARD came back for an encore.  
 
I can usually tell when my cycles are ending...I come off "headache schedules" gradually and just feel a tick or twinge behind my eye during the time i normally experience pain. Gradually that tapers off until the next cycle starts. (This was my first cycle in over 5 years).  
 
However, I was quite bothered by the fact that the beast returned last night after only 2 freaking beers. What the hell did i do to him? And what really struck me as odd is that this CH was harder to shake than any in this most recent cycle.  
 
I've read most of the posts in this thread, and I think, based on reading everyone's past experiences, that the alcohol consumption shouldn't resume so quickly. The last thing I want to do is start up another cycle....
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #40 on: Apr 1st, 2008, 9:09am »
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I 100% agree with no alchoal during clusters.  I have been cluster free for a year and a half.  And wouldn't you know, the cluster fairy paid me a visit last week.  Bastard!!!  But anyway, i was camping this last week.  So it was BBQ and my favorite pale ale.  Let me tell you, big mistake.  Every night I was up with a 7-8 CH for a good 40 minutes.  But I still ignored the headaches and did the same thing the next day.  Then last night I went to a BBQ and had a Heniken and had no problems then had a Firestone Pale Ale and shazam!!  My wife looked at me and said oh no!  are you getting one?  So I sat through a good hour long 7-8.  Lesson learned!! :-X
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #41 on: Apr 1st, 2008, 12:07pm »
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my first cyle .....60 days ....last hit was almost 2 wks ago,alcohol a big trigger......... fri nite i had a sloooooooooooooooow glass of wine, kinda scared, but did it, and no hits, sat another sllllllloooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww glass, nothing....................i think i done ....................for now @ least.........................i am going to try to not  run my life thinking when/if will be back.............................
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #42 on: Apr 1st, 2008, 12:43pm »
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     Smiley!!!Yeah Deb!!! Smiley
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #43 on: Apr 1st, 2008, 6:51pm »
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Well, I'm now 100% convinced that alcohol does not trigger me. I'm NOT disputing that for many people it is a trigger, but I can't register any cause = effect from alcohol at all.
 
This cluster I've been more vigilant than ever in recording what I do, drink, eat and anything that could be a trigger.  
The end result ( 9 weeks and I think I'm on the wind down  Kiss ) is that I can't identify anything as a trigger, although I acknowledge that there must be some kind of trigger.
 
I can barely say the attacks have been regularly timed, and there's no pattern of severity either. It's random.
 
Yesterday lunch time I was with a party of family and friends in a pub for lunch with an ice cold pint of Guinness in front of me when that 'feeling' arrived.
I went out to the car where my secret stash of Red Bull was and downed one fast, then said to myself "to hell with it, I'm here to enjoy myself"
 
So I went back in drank the Guinness, ate my meal and had a second pint.
All I had was a slight shadow.
 
Was I lucky? probably.
But I don't say that in respect of getting away with being triggered by the alcohol. I firmly believe that I was just lucky it was never going to be anything more than a shadow.
After all, the alcohol would have negated the effect of the Red Bull.
 
As I've said before, I'm not recommending alcohol while in a cluster. All I'm pointing out is that for me, and maybe some others, the trigger(s) aren't external. They are within our bodies, some kind of chemical trigger that seems be random.
 
It's the only thing I can think of that triggers my ch, I've had some alcohol nearly every day during this cycle, and it's been no better or worse than previous cycles when I've avoided it.
 
Perhaps, for some of us, we need to extend our search? I don't know how, I'm an engineer not a physician, Maybe we need to record more detail, things such as mood, stress, the more intangible things.  
I certainly will if I have another cycle in the future, because after over 30 years of looking for external triggers I haven't identified one solitary thing.
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #44 on: Apr 2nd, 2008, 12:03pm »
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I just wanted to comment on the microbrews.  Although I find many of them VERY tasty, even when I'm not in cycle I can get a migraine from them.  Safest beers for me are, for some reason, Dos Equus (which I can even drink during a cycle) and usually Miller Genuine Draft.  Not that I've tested every single beer, but those two are good for me.  Last choice ever would be a Leinie's, even though I like it; it's positively a migraine-producer for me in the best of times, and even if it didn't cause a CH, I wouldn't want to add a standard migraine to my already full dance card!
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #45 on: Apr 2nd, 2008, 12:58pm »
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on Apr 2nd, 2008, 12:03pm, Rosebuddy wrote:
I just wanted to comment on the microbrews.  Although I find many of them VERY tasty, even when I'm not in cycle I can get a migraine from them.  Safest beers for me are, for some reason, Dos Equus (which I can even drink during a cycle) and usually Miller Genuine Draft.  Not that I've tested every single beer, but those two are good for me.  Last choice ever would be a Leinie's, even though I like it; it's positively a migraine-producer for me in the best of times, and even if it didn't cause a CH, I wouldn't want to add a standard migraine to my already full dance card!

 
 
 Grin
 
Good to see someone out there doing the "hard" research. That's some kind of dedication to finding the answer that can work for you.
 
Scott    Wink
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #46 on: Apr 2nd, 2008, 1:52pm »
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Quote:
I've had some alcohol nearly every day during this cycle,

You have more of a problem than CH.
Good luck with that
thebb
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Re: Alcohol and CH
« Reply #47 on: Apr 2nd, 2008, 5:19pm »
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on Apr 2nd, 2008, 1:52pm, thebbz wrote:

You have more of a problem than CH.
Good luck with that
thebb

 
It's no problem at all, I enjoy it immensely.  Wink
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