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Title: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 3rd, 2006, 12:23am ...do you smell the smoke? ;) Seriously, though... It's always been my feeling that kudzu and CB treatments work kinda the same way. Which is probably why kudzu will interfere with the treatments. This is all my own speculation, mind you. I have no facts to support this at all. Anyway... I know that kudzu (taken as a tablet) will not work as an abortive. I was thinking about how well SPUTs can work as an abortive. Is it possible that grinding up a kudzu tab and keeping it under the tongue would also work as an abortive? Just thinking out loud.... Anybody have any ideas? |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by Mr. Happy on Mar 3rd, 2006, 1:36am So recruit some Beta-Testers. God knows the field is fertile enough, even tho I still think of Kudzu as the Ultimate Placebo. There've been enough successes spitting back with positive results that I still keep several jars handy. You go first. You're cute when your ears steam like that. RJ |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 3rd, 2006, 8:24am on 03/03/06 at 01:36:33, Mr. Happy wrote:
That's why I posted this. ::) Anybody interested? |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by Kevin_M on Mar 3rd, 2006, 8:32am on 03/03/06 at 00:23:14, nani wrote:
Hard to say yet if one pill would have enough abortive ability. What if I sneeze? :) :-* |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by pattik on Mar 3rd, 2006, 8:53am on 03/03/06 at 00:23:14, nani wrote:
I thought you were going to suggest that we start smoking it ;;D I might be willing to try this as a sput the next time one of my shadows pops up. I'll let you know. |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by JJA on Mar 3rd, 2006, 9:07am Well nani, Research backs up your speculation, i.e. that 'busters and kudzu do work in the same way...only opposite... [smiley=bigcry.gif]....Resisting the urge to explain something you don't care about... Your idea is definitely worth trying... Jesse |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 3rd, 2006, 9:09am Oh, I care, Jesse. Odds are though, if you start using your neuro-science vocabulary, I will go cross-eyed and pass out before I understand any of it. ;) I'd be open to you writing up a lil something on it and I'll put it in the newsletter. |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by seasonalboomer on Mar 3rd, 2006, 9:20am Nani, If you use the Nature's Way Kudzu, they come in caplets anyway, so no grinding necessary. As for beta testing it...... they got a bit of a smell to them from the caplets anyway that doesn't lead me to wanting to do anything but slide it down as quickly as possible anyway. Let's find some Capsaicin sniffer to try it, they'll try anything :o..... just kidding and apologies to the Capsaicin sniffers. Scott |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 3rd, 2006, 9:26am Chugging down mushroom or LSA "tea" isn't tasty, either. But, who cares... it works! |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by Dragnlance on Mar 3rd, 2006, 9:51am Well, I admit to taking several Kudzu tabs when hit. One time it seemed that it cut the duration down. I will try it when I get a big hit. Not willing to do it with the every day hits though. I love Kudzu, and can tell you with certainty that it works. I was totally drug free before starting it. This week, I had two pain free days in a row!!! THAT NEVER HAPPENS! It is always one day here, one day there. Not only that, I slept all night last night and woke up pain free today! This from a 42 year chronic. I will promote Kudzu every chance I get, because (for me) IT WORKS!!!!!!!! :D |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 3rd, 2006, 9:57am The theory behind SPUTs is that holding it under your tongue will rapidly increase the absorption of the medicine. Thanks, Lance! Let us know, OK? |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by ABarham on Mar 3rd, 2006, 10:15am Okay - now I'm confused, but what's new? I am new here so trying to absorb all of this is quite the task. About kudzu - If taking the "purchased" brand, should it be used as an abortative or a preventative? If using the actual root of the plant, and God knows it's everwhere around here, what do you do with it? How much do you use? is it just the root? If anyone wants some of the plant, let me know. I could make a lot of people in SC happy just to get rid of some of it. Although my theory is that the more you try to eliminate it, the more it takes over. whatever!! Really don't want to start another Social Security thing here PLEASE. If that happens to me again, I may just have to start reading and not posting. I really don't want to do that. LOL Mama Louise |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by Dragnlance on Mar 3rd, 2006, 10:22am LMAO!! Hi Louise. Sorry about my part in the SS thing. Kudzu is used as a preventive. I find it reduces the strength and duration of hits. I am noticing a reduction in the NUMBER of hits too! Nani is suggesting we try to use Kudzu as an abortive too. None of us have tried it, so do not know if it works Lance |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by mynm156 on Mar 3rd, 2006, 10:56am Hey thats possible. You should PM Pinkfloyd and see what he thinks. Rock On! |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 3rd, 2006, 11:18am The behind the scenes wheels are turning, Howard. Louise, everything you ever wanted to know about kudzu (but were afraid to ask) is located here: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1110584362 There are threads linked within the thread. Read everything. Sorry, it's a lot...but worth it. Then, feel free to PM me for more info if you'd like. :) |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by wing_nut on Mar 3rd, 2006, 12:24pm Ok Nani, I'll be your Beta, and yes, I did participate in the Capsaicin study. :) I have suffered for 30 years but only get episodes every two years. I'm on the longest one ever right now, so I'll try anything. Shoot what will it hurt? I was PF last night 1st time in 4 months, so I am optimistic and have decided the devil has left me. But if he does return this weekend I'm game. I'm like Lance and am a big believer in Kudzu. |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 3rd, 2006, 12:27pm Thanks wing_nut. If you plan to try LSA, you should avoid kudzu. Kudzu can interfere with Clusterbuster treatments. |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by wing_nut on Mar 3rd, 2006, 12:48pm Good stuff Nani thanks. I ordered the seeds, but I am aprehensive to try. would much rather be in your study first ;) |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 3rd, 2006, 12:50pm That works for me! ;;D Hopefully it works for you, too. If the kudzu works, then by all means, continue it. Don't be afraid of seeds, though. As long as you are informed and follow the instructions, they're pretty harmless. And very helpful. |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 3rd, 2006, 1:33pm on 03/03/06 at 10:15:11, ABarham wrote:
Sorta like clusters :-X BobW Why is it everytime Nani starts thinking.....I get another project [smiley=laugh.gif] Probably has something to do with smoke signals cause the same thing happens with my wife....weird. |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by BikerBob on Mar 3rd, 2006, 2:34pm on 03/03/06 at 13:33:35, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Bob, if Nani's new project is to investigate the efficacy of "kudzu sputs", I would just delegate it to Flo. ;;D BB |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 3rd, 2006, 3:16pm on 03/03/06 at 14:34:06, BikerBob wrote:
:P Personally, I think this questions begs the expertise of Bob and Flo. And Jesse. Are you working on anything right now, BB? The more, the merrier. Oh, Bob... your wife and I are here to think up the stuff... not actually do it. ;) |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 3rd, 2006, 3:46pm on 03/03/06 at 15:16:12, nani wrote:
See BB..Now you went and did it. This is like having a friend call to invite me to go fishing when he knows I have to paint the house. I suggest you sloooowly back away from the monitor before you end up with a paint brush in your hand. ;;D Bobw |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by Mr. Happy on Mar 3rd, 2006, 5:08pm Bob.....you're sounding more and more like Rev. Ivan Stang every day.........back when the Wholly Profit Bob Dobbs ruled the wallets of the "pink" consiracy, and charged `em double. >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:56:47 GMT >And now the sponsor of the last 2 Cleveland shows, Steve Bevilacqua, of >The Flying Lemur Bookstore, wants to produce a 15-CITY SUBGENIUS DEVIVAL >EAST COAST SLACK JIHAD TOUR!!! In 2 WEEKS in OCTOBER!!! And there I was, >in the middle of 18 different overwork-induced illnesses, my tongue >hanging out, tired, BROKE, and he asks me if I'm interested, and what do I >say? "YES." Jesus. What a fucking idiot. But, yes, it looks like we will try to do: Try and deny it. RJ |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 3rd, 2006, 6:05pm My brother, Iben Stung, once said; "Pull The Wool Over Your Own Eyes and Relax In The Safety Of Your Own Delusions." Bobw (I have to go buy some Rum & Maple tobacco for my pipe) |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by wing_nut on Mar 7th, 2006, 11:21am Ok Nani, Here's an update for your study. Sunday night, woke up with about a KIP 7. opened my Natures Way cap, put it under my tongue. OMG. It tasted horrible. Anyway, left it for about 3-5 minutes. had to wash it down. After that I shot myself with Trex. Here's the interesting part, I haven't had a HA since. I have had one every night for the past 3 months and now I have gone 2 nights in row PF. Is it coincidence? |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 7th, 2006, 11:28am Wow! Very interesting.... Did it not abort the HA, and that's why you took the trex? I'm curious, because kudzu has shown that it will make trex (and probably other triptans) ineffective if taken up to 2 hours before. So, I wouldn't stop using the kudzu as a regular prevent, remember that the timing is critical to success. But, if it were me, I might try a kudzu SPUT everytime I started getting activity again. I'm sure it tastes bad ... but do you think it was worth it? edited to add: I would also not use trex. We can't know if the SPUT is working unless we try it by itself. Kudzu should (from what testers report) render the trex useless, so if it does, it's a wasted effort. And, money down the drain. |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by wing_nut on Mar 7th, 2006, 11:41am Was it worth it? Or will I do it again. ;;D I will definately try it again. I'm like all the rest of you. I will keep trying as long as it tames the beast. |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by Dragnlance on Mar 8th, 2006, 3:58pm Ok, here is my test. Monday nite. k7 hit. I opened a capsul and put about 20% under my tongue. Kept it there for 15 min. Nasty tasting stuff by the way. I noticed a 2 point drop in the hit, (down to k5) did not abort but did make it more bearable. I have had some shadows since, and a minor hit yesterday, but nothing major. I will try again on the next major hit. Not certain that I would want to do this with a minor hit, as the stuff tastes terrible. Lance |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by BikerBob on Mar 8th, 2006, 5:35pm on 03/07/06 at 11:28:16, nani wrote:
Nani, I'm very surprised to read that. Could you show us the research on that? I understand that triptans interfere with the effects of kudzu, LSD, LSA and psilocybin. However, I find it hard to believe that kudzu can interfere with the abortive effects of triptans. Sumatriptan is a powerful vasoconstrictor that should work as an abortive regardless of what kudzu is doing with the 5HT receptors (theoretically, IMHO). [smiley=huh.gif] BB p.s. Dayum, you made me pick up a paintbrush... ;) |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 8th, 2006, 5:48pm on 03/08/06 at 17:35:46, BikerBob wrote:
Hell no, I can't show you, BB. I've delegated all the paint brushes. No really, the reports came from testers, one being ozzy's wife who gets migraines. Trex is always 100% effective for her. She was testing kudzu as a migraine prevent and when she took a shot of trex about 1 1/2 hours after a kudzu tablet, it didn't help at all. There was at least one CH tester who reported the same, but I can't remember who. It's all on that original kudzu thread (the twenty-something page one). My guess (again, I only guess and follow my intuition) is that it in some way counteracts whatever effects trex has on those 5ht receptors. I've been in touch with wing-nut. She tried another SPUT for hit and waited 30 minutes, with no result. She did a shot of trex at that point. Lance, thanks for trying and I'm glad you got a little break. :) |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by wing_nut on Mar 8th, 2006, 6:19pm Wing_Nut here.... nani asked me to post my most recent beta experience The beast awoke me at 2:00am.(KIP 7) I did the SPUT. . After about a half hour, I couldn't take it anymore, had to shoot some Trex. 5 min later it was gone. So, in summary, Both times I tried the SPUT I ended up using my Trex and the beast was gone. Dragnlance, only 20%? big weenie. ;;D You gotta go for the whole thing. For the rest of you, it's Great! It turns into a mud like substance that is not very easy to get rid of. And might add very delicious!!! And the best part...... you have the pleasure of experiencing the flavor again in morning. [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: I've been thinking... Post by nani on Mar 10th, 2006, 1:20pm Update from an outside tester: My sister (who is ECH) suffers from migraines, too. She uses kudzu as a migraine prevent and uses psilocybin (SPUTS) as a migraine abortive. Both work well for her, if she can avoid a SPUT before 2 hours have passed since her kudzu dose. She agreed to test a kudzu SPUT. At the onset of a particularly bad migraine she opened a 613 mg kudzu capsule and held the contents under her tongue for 16 minutes. (She said she was going for 20 minutes, but couldn't take the taste anymore, LOL) She swallowed what was left and waited. Three hours later, she went for a mushroom SPUT and it helped, but did not completely abort the HA. :-/ |
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