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fjleonard
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Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« on: Dec 18th, 2003, 7:22pm »
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Ok....So....I am very curious....from all that I am reading I get an overwhelming indication that "many" of us have used drugs (and I include alcohol in that) recreationaly in past lives...
 
I have looked and searched but have been unable to see if we have been surveyed formally or informally on this topic, so I have to ask the question in the interest of "looking for clues" as to "cause" for this beast....
 
How many of us have abused drugs or alcohol in the past prior to getting CH?? And to show good faith, I'll start with my own history....
 
- Started drinking heavily in High School mainly at parties, but could occasionaly down more than a quart of cheap whiskey in a show of "stupid" bravado...never considered myself an alcoholic, but definitely fit the "abuser" tag. I continued drinking (sometimes heavily) even for about 6 years after I began getting CH. I would medicate myself to prevent and then party away. Finally stopped altogether for 10 years and now drink only socially when off CH cycle.
 
- Started smoking pot my last yr in high school, and used to think it was kool to hyperventilate and pass out...course the pot was so bad, that was the only way to really get a buzz!!  Tongue Then after high school, started getting into REALLY good pot, and was a pot head for pretty much the next 10 years, getting high pretty much every day, although I would occassionally leave it alone for extended periods of time just to sort of get my head together or whatever. I stopped smoking pot altogether at the same time I stopped drinking.
 
- Other drugs.....during my early 20s I played around with a lot of things....cocaine, speed, crystal, and yes...good old LSD....I never really did a lot of any of them, but LSD was one of my favorites especially while stationed overseas because we could't get pot very easy on Okinawa, but acid was easy to get in a letter. Again, I stopped all drugs completely in my late 20s.
 
It may also be relevent for me to point out that I had become chronic in my mid 20s and that when I finally decided to completely stop all drinking, partying, etc, I immediately went back to episodic....hmmmm....
 
Sooo....I guess with all this talk about indole rings and molecular structure of halucenogenics and the similarity to DMT and Seratonin....it REALLY has me wondering about a connection between initial recreational drug use (especially Acid) and "why these damn things started in the first place"!!!!  
 
I realize many may be concerned about posting data like this in a public, but for those brave souls willing to step up, I'm sure there are many of us wondering this same thing.....
 
Regards and tanks in advance for those willing to join in!! Smiley
 
Joe
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #1 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 2:21am »
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I see your point in wanting to compare drug use to CH.
 
Growing up in the early 70's, I have seen hundreds of people who did the drugs you're reffering to. I've tried a few in my younger days.
 
Problem is, they do not get Cluster Headaches.
 
And I'm sure that there are alot of people here that where not druggies growing up.
 
Therefore, my opinion is we do not even need to go there.
« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2003, 2:59am by YOSIMITE » IP Logged
Flash
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #2 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 3:42am »
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CH started when I was 16.  I didn't start drinking till I was 18, and did not start drug use till I was 19 1/2.  The first time I took LSD I was 23 1/2 and it killed my CH.
 
So no!
 
Also nature does not distinguish between legal and illegal drugs.  So a banana, a cup of coffee, an aspirin, crack - there is no distinction.
 
This belief that illegal substances have caused the CH is guilt related not steeped in reality.  Go to the forum for any disease and you will see people asking this same question - did illicit drugs cause my condition?  Am I being punished?
 
Err nope.
 
Hope this puts this matter to rest now.  
 
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #3 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 5:51am »
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I'll go along with Flash on that,  started getting CH when I was 15,  and by then was only abusing alcohol a little (parties etc) and smoking (tobacco).  I always used to wonder if the tobacco made it worse but then I quit and there was no effect!
 
In fact mosttimes, smoking a cigarette after an attack would disloge any lingering shadows but made it worse at the begining of an attack.  oh well.  you live and learn i guess.
 
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #4 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 8:11am »
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I started getting CH when I was 10 years old and I promise I had not touched any drugs.  I have only smoked pot once and it caused me to start the cycle from hell and I have really never drank alot.
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #5 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 8:24am »
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I started getting them after a period of time when I was smoking a lot of pot and snorting white crosses, and also drinking heavily.  But I don't do the first two any more, but the Beast still comes around to wrack my brain.
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HannahFroukje
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #6 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 8:36am »
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Hmmm, we´re a bit boring over here, and I´m from HOLLAND HAH! So you would almost expect us to have tried every drug in the book.
 
But no, Jos (the one with the headaches) never even smoked pot once, and when I started telling him about LSD and mushrooms he didn´t even know what it was exactly, hee hee  Grin. So nope on drugs here.
 
But it´s a fact that he´s always been loving his drink. He doesn´t really get a buzz from alcohol, he is just used to drinking a lot socially, but he will get regularly " really really " social ....  Grin.  
 
He developed cluster headache after a serious car accident with 3 months of coma, when he awoke from his coma, and regained his consciousness, his first cluster started. So I figure it has nothing to do with his habits?
« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2003, 9:42am by HannahFroukje » IP Logged
jminmilwaukee
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #7 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 9:57am »
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I think there may be a problem with your drugs in Holland.
 
I believe the only way to prove my theory is to hop a plane and "inspect" the issue.
 
More to follow  Grin
 
jmin
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HannahFroukje
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #8 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 10:54am »
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Oh yeah, well you could try to:
 
* Drink our caffeine
* Smoke our salvia divinorum for your appetite
* Eat our yummie chocolate psilobyne mushrooms  
* Smoke some weed after dinner
* Chew down a couple 'a morning glory seeds to make you extra social. And have some DMT or amfetamines, or some stackers.  You don't wanna gain too much weight now do you ...
 
But ehm ... where's the drugs?  
 
 Grin Grin Grin
 
Do not try this at home! Just kidding ....
« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2003, 2:30am by HannahFroukje » IP Logged
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 11:01am »
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Never did anything like that  Wink  Roll Eyes Grin
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 11:10am »
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I started getting Clusters when I was 15 years old. Did not smoke, drink or do any drugs, when I first got them.
 
So there goes that theory with me.
 
Although a lot of people say I'm a Drug Addict cause I use Oxy IR for Pain.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes  That's like saying anyone that has drink's alcohol is an alcoholic. But that's a rant for another time.
 
Jim
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 19th, 2003, 1:23pm »
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Quote:
* Smoke our salvia divinorum for your appetite

 
Hannah, could you tell us more about the appetite enhancing properties of this herb? Very interested,
 
 
Lee  
« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2003, 1:25pm by forgetful » IP Logged
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 12:02am »
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Thanks so far for the honest and straightforward responses....and yep, Hannah, I had picked up that you and Jos had probably never used recreationally....(and btw....still pullin' for you guys!!!). I didn't really expect that all of us had been recreational users in the past, but I would still be very curious to get a read on the percentage, etc....
 
and now for the board "vets" who took exception to my inquiry....
 
1) I never mentioned "ilicit"....in fact was very careful to use the term "recreational"....and nope...no guilt complex here...pretty presumptuous on your part!
 
2) I have seen many people jump into the ocean and not drown too...doesn't mean I can't drown if I jump in...maybe that's too simple a comparison, but you can apply the principle to just about any topic you want, including drug use and headaches....fact is we're all different and not everybody is effected the same way by various influences, etc...
 
3) as far as "not going there" or "putting the matter to rest"....as far as I'm concerned..until these things are solved for every last sufferer....sorry....but those are lame comments and not helpful at all! We have to be willing to explore just about any and all aspects of our lifestyles, backgrounds, heritage, etc.....
 
4) Although not "all" of us partook "recreationally" prior to onset of the beast....that does not preclude that use as "A" possible trigger.....fact is many diseases are cured or controlled by a substance often very similar to or identical to the culprit that started the problem in the first place....so...like I said, IMHO until these things are solved once and for all, NOTHING is off limits for consideration by anyone truly interested in finding the cause, effect, and cure! Of course...if you're only here as part of a "social thing"...then I guess you can censor the conversation any way you'd like.....
 
Lastly.....if, because you have been around for so long on this board that you find a "newbe" asking honest questions to be offensive...you either need to take a break....get a life....or just tell us we aren't welcome in your #&$%# club!!
 
There.....I feel better now......I'll just shut up and go back to lurking!
 
Joe
 
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #13 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 1:55am »
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No reason to go to lurk mode Joe. People seem to do better here if they cause a little trouble now and then anyways!!
I thought it was a good question. I've thought about it myself. Even the people that say it has no affect (which, they may be right) thought about it at some point, just to come up with their opinion.
Just as we all seem to have differences in what drugs etc. help us, I think there can also be different things that, if not "cause" clusters, there may be different things that "trigger" that 1st attack. Just as Imitrex helps some and not all, or verapamil helps some but not all, it could be that different things bring out the "beast" in us, so to speak. Personally I think that environmental effects are causing many different things to "go wrong" with people.  
I don't know if instances of Clusters has been increasing but there has been discussion as to why the percentages of men vs. women has been changing. It seems that migraine has been increasing in the general public.....I've seen estimates in the 40 million range.
Same story with other diseases.
So, point being....it seems that there are different things that can trigger our bodies to start "clustering"..
Accidents, head injuries, chemical exposure, many things people just can't put their finger on. I know at least two people that link their cluster cycle to diving accidents. I don't see why it isn't possible that ingesting "any" chemical couldn't be "a" cause. Again, not the fundamental cause (changing the physical make-up of the hypothalamus) but a trigger type cause.
 
I think the fact that many of us are smokers (nicotine) is a bigger factor than consuming what are considered illegal drugs (if you don't live in Holland Wink
 
The only drugs I did as a youngster was some pot for a short time. (it was the 60's....."does anyone remember laughter?) Not very often and had stopped that for probably 10 years before clusters appeared. Alcohol was never really abused.  
But,,,,the only thing I ever experienced that came close to a cluster was when I was about 16 and someone laced (without my knowledge) some pot with PCP. I thought my head was going to explode and I was going to die.
That was when I stopped pot.
 
Maybe when we find out all the things that "trigger" clusters to start in people, we'll be able to find what common thread binds them all, and work our way to the "cause" of clusters. That is one step away from the cure.
 
PF
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #14 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 2:32am »
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on Dec 19th, 2003, 1:23pm, forgetfulnot wrote:

 
Hannah, could you tell us more about the appetite enhancing properties of this herb? Very interested,
Lee  

 
Well I wouldn't advice you to use it for that, it's a plant that's said to be a strong halluci... oh ... that word again, I'll give it my best shot: hallugenocenic ...
 
I just heard somewhere you get a bit hungry when you use it. It was a joke, so don't try it please!!! If you need appetizers, I'm sure there's something else you would prefer.
 
HF
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #15 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 2:42am »
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on Dec 20th, 2003, 12:02am, fjleonard wrote:
3) as far as "not going there" or "putting the matter to rest"....as far as I'm concerned..until these things are solved for every last sufferer....sorry....but those are lame comments and not helpful at all! We have to be willing to explore just about any and all aspects of our lifestyles, backgrounds, heritage, etc.....  
 
Lastly.....if, because you have been around for so long on this board that you find a "newbe" asking honest questions to be offensive...you either need to take a break....get a life....or just tell us we aren't welcome in your #&$%# club!!
 

 
I think it's a logical question, have been wondering about it myself a lot. I've always felt that Jos' smoking does have something to do with his clusters (I didn't count that under recreational drugs, but why not)... he kinda sees it himself too ... but he's not ready to give it up, has been thinking about it though.
 
Well let's face it, what is a reason for person A doesn't have to be a reason for person B, perhaps not even for C ... or F ... but perhaps it will be for the rest of the alfabeth ...it could be that there are factors that play a part in the background of a lot of people, so yes, I would be interested in that too. It's a fact that a lot of clusterheads are smokers. You can't conclude by that that smoking gives you CH (I don't have it ...) but what if it's possible that you have this TENDENCY to get CH hid away somewhere, and that it's possible that smoking triggers it out of it's hiding place?
 
Have been wondering about this "sleeping beast" myself. Will obviously be not considered as a "sleeping beauty". Grin Perhaps there's a "gene" for CH that just needs to be triggered? With an accident? With drugs, even modest or recreational? With hormones (the pill). With strong emotions? With physical stress? Perhaps it's not the sort of trigger that counts, but just the fact if the trigger fits your pattern.
 
I would like to know more myself about that triggers.
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #16 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 10:50am »
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Thanks for the reassurance Bob & Hannah....and sorry to all for my brief outburst...pain makes one do strange things, as I'm sure you are all "painfully" aware (pun intended) Embarassed .Anyhow, I know both guys who set me off have contributed FAR more to this forum than I have or probably ever will.....so again..my apologies for getting offended.
 
Anyhow...on the subject of smoking...(cigarettes, etc..), I hadn't considered that, but I guess any consideration of foreign substances would have to include tar, nicotine, etc...as for me, I started smoking at about age 12 and stopped about before I started getting CH in my early 20s. I guess if any of these things are triggers, I made sure I haad my bases covered by trying it all!!
 
Joe
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #17 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 11:18am »
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on Dec 20th, 2003, 10:50am, fjleonard wrote:

Anyhow...on the subject of smoking...(cigarettes, etc..), I hadn't considered that, but I guess any consideration of foreign substances would have to include tar, nicotine, etc...as for me, I started smoking at about age 12 and stopped about before I started getting CH in my early 20s. I guess if any of these things are triggers, I made sure I haad my bases covered by trying it all!!

 
Well yeah, while you're at it, why not try it all  Grin Grin Grin hee hee.
 
You really never thought about cigarettes? And it makes so much sense that cigarettes have something to do with CH (okay c'mon you all shoot me  Grin). It couldn't be a coincidence that Oxygen helps a lot of CH-heads, ... while this is a treatment for chronic smokers with chronic lungdisease as well ....
 
Hugs,
 
Hannah
 
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #18 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 11:38am »
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Trying to be as open minded here as possible. I am guessing that there IS some outside influence  triggering CH cycles.  
 
Even if you didn't smoke, drink, do drugs, or whatever. How about your parents, grandparents, or someone even further down the line. Maybe the trigger could be traced back to your DNA.
 
After all we are just spirits in a material world.
 
The cycle could start when everything is in perfect alignment with the past at some given time or day. It could be something that we may not even know about because we where not in existence yet at the intitial onslot.
 
It's frustrating at times and causes changes in attitutes and expressions. I am learning that I must deal with this and will try to be more open minded and considerate on this board.
 
Sorry for bashing.
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #19 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 2:46pm »
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I believe my clusters are from the implant I recieved from aliens during my prime breeding years. This is why I have a tiny lump (or tranciever) in my left earlobe. THe clusters get worse when they are downloading patches (bill gates is thier leader).  Grin
 
Seriously....who knows for sure?!? These are all questions we hope will one day be answered (cause, hereditary, etc).
 
Jmin
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #20 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 3:35pm »
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Eternally on the track of what we need to avoid, so as not to get clusters....
 
Been there too, done that too.
 
At the moment I am casting my net wider. Ever since I learned that eating chocolate does not cause migraines; it is the migraine coming on that causes a craving for chocolate... (Dr. Ferrari) I think in broader terms about cause and effect.
 
 
I might argue a possible genetic predisposition. Some on this board have close relatives with clusters. My gran had headaches every single day of her life...
Also, lots of things that clusterheads share might very well have a genetic impulse.
 
Unorthodox sleeping habits for one (some call'em sleeping problems) - go look at the hypothalamus.
Overuse of substances or procedures that give pleasure - go look at the way our endorphins throw us into a closed pleasure loop, so we cannot quit smoking once we start, and won't leave our PC alone.
 
Genetic make-up may also be the reason why I prefer cold on the pain and others prefer heat, and why I can deaden an attack with alcohol while it is a trigger for others.
 
 
And there we have the direct trigger. Perfume, MSN, liquorice (me), blue cheese and wine,
whatever. Different for all of us.
 
 
And in between there may very well be a proto trigger, pre-trigger, whatever.
For me that may have been menopause, after which I switched from migraines to clusters.
For Jos that may have been  his car accident. Who knows what it is for others.
 
I am freewheeling here, look ma, no hands!  
 
Trying to determine direct causes, intermediate causes and first causes of clusters is like trying to hit black eels in a dark room with a black stick, while being blindfolded.
 
  Undecided
But continue we must, most certainly. Kiss
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #21 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 4:07pm »
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If I please may add something ....
 
Some find it interesting to try to hit their own cat and see if they might really be able to kill it ( I remember the kitty-kitty game now that was posted somewhere, I tried to kill a few myself  Grin).
 
Other just get frustrated when they keep trying to hit the cat in the dark.
 
Some people feel helpless if you don't give'm something to hit with. Or at least have an idea that there might be something you could hit with. Like me for instance. I have to keep looking, keep searching for clues, possibilities, possible solutions. Or else I would get crazy, insane. I have to focus on something! They try constantly to outsmarten their cat and in the process they feel less helpless, because they're doing something or at least try to.
 
It's not easy to always go on searching , but some people can.
 
Others feel utterly helpless if they are forced to keep searching, because they feel confronted with the fact that they will perhaps never find it, never find the cure, and therefore never be able to be "happy". For those people relieve comes at the very moment when they finally stop searching and give it a rest. They try to live together with their cat and accept the situation as it is, without wondering why.
 
It's not easy to stop searching but some people can.
 
And then ofcourse there are lots and lots of people somewhere inbetween these two  Grin.
 
Now having said that, at this moment I could really do with someone who's good with crying women that feel utterly helpless, because ... well, just because I am crying and feel utterly helpless. I still can't find his cat and I can't stop looking for it either.
« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2003, 6:15pm by HannahFroukje » IP Logged
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #22 on: Dec 20th, 2003, 7:15pm »
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Frouk, have a virtual cry on my shoulder! I know it is not sturdy and male, but at least I know a cluster when it hits me, lol.
 
 Wink
 
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Re: Recreational Drug Use - Historical / Cause?
« Reply #23 on: Dec 23rd, 2003, 6:08am »
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You appear to have missed my point entirely.  It is man that groups things into specific categories.  Nature does not m,ake a distinction between legal, illegal, recreational, illicit, food, drink, smoke etc.
 
CH doesn't know what substances are classified as recreational drugs - it is society that makes the distinction.
 
The chemistries of cannabis, crack, PCP, and LSD are entirely different.  LSD for example has a chemistry very similar to ergotamine which is nothing like a recreational drug and is actually used to treat CH.
 
The point I was trying to make is that recreational, illegal, illicit whatever drugs have nothing in common with each other apart from belonging to the subset of psychoactive substances that includes alcohol, pherimones, nicotene, camomile, bananas, incense...  If your question was:
 
"Does anyone think that psychoactive substances cause CH?"
 
Then obviously no, because that iut too broader definition.
 
If the question was:
 
"Does anyone think that cannabis causes CH?"  
 
That would have been more sensible.
 
However your question lumped a bunch of unrelated substances together, so it made no sense.
 
Do you see where I'm coming from yet?
 
Please also be aware that if I flamed you, then you'd know about it, but neither that nor this was a flame.  In fact it's been over a year since I last flamed someone, and that was for religious drivel of the highest order - so you're not in any danger.  I'm just blunt.  Hanging around here for 5 years made me that way...
 
BTW that last bit was intended as dry humour.
 
 
Flash
 
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