Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
        
(Message started by: Ueli on Nov 5^th, 2002, 12:56am)

Title: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by Ueli on Nov 5^th, 2002, 12:56am

Chinese medicine, including acupuncture, is of very ancient origin. However, that does not automatically mean it is better than modern western medicine. Quite in the contrary, only wine gets better with age.

It lies in human nature to want an explanation for everything, and if the knowledge at the time has none ready, anything that the cat dragged in is accepted wisdom.

The old Chinese didn't have our modern knowledge of chemistry and our analytic techniques. So they made up an alleged "energy" which permeates all things and they called it "chi" (or ch'i or qi). In order to balance the opposing forces of "yin and yang" this "chi" flows along some mysterious lines in the body, called "meridians" (a gross mis-translation, since meridian implies as symmetry, like the North-South line that splits the sky into East and West). If somebody is sick (of any kind) the "chi" is said to be out of whack and by pricking the body with needles at the right point it is possible to regain the balance, duh.

Darwin and his evolution theory came centuries later than "chi". To those who believe in this theory (e.g. others than the Kentuckyan monkey law believers) it is obvious that this archaic
system of "meridians" and "chi" cannot exist. In hundreds millions of years of evolution our body has developed some marvelous transport highways: The arteries transport oxygen rich blood to all parts of the body. The veins are responsible for the transport back to the heart. Any liquids seeped out of the blood circulation is collected by the lymphatic system. Our nervous system is far more sophisticated than any modern computer. It collects all kind external inputs, sound, light, heat, touch, pain etc. and sends it to the "central processor", the brain. In the other direction all sorts of commands are sent: to tell the muscles to make the most complicated maneuvers, like writing or speaking. In the outward direction are also the autonomous commands, that keep our heart beating, our guts digesting, our glands secreting, and scores of other functions too. All these features have been fine trimmed by evolution, that favours the better over the good.
How do the "meridians" that transport "chi" fit into this image? IMHO not at all. Although they had no reason nor function for 100 millions of years (and hence no pressure to change in one way or another) they allegedly developed in this huge time span into a sophisticated system that was waiting all the time to be discovered by a crafty guy who found that by sticking needles into the "meridians" he could "redirect" the "chi" and in this way cure almost every disease. What is most disturbing for me is that neither the pathway of the "meridians" nor the mysterious "chi energy" they transport can be verified by the sophisticated tool we have at our disposition today. The only "evidence" there is are some testimonials of fortuitous "success" stories. In most cases a spontaneous remission caused by the self-healing ability of our body. But of course, these chance events are shown off as proofs for the shaky theories, the more as there are no counter-examples (the failures are conveniently swept under the carpet).

But the scam artists of acupuncture thrive still today, like many other bogus "sciences", homeopathy, faith healing, head shrinking and many, many more. Because some people condemn modern medicine in face of occasional failures. They believe that the chemistry of "natural" treatments is entirely different (and of course much better) than the chemistry that has the flaw of being associated with the pharmaceutical industry. What they overlook is the fact that the pharma's have to show to the FDA the effectiveness (and the lack of severe side effects) of their products. On the other hand, the quack artists show of as "proofs" some fake testimonials, and they try their best to bring across the message, ardently avoiding an explicit statement that brings them on a collision course with the law. They are merrily suggesting the usefulness of their product, and of course suppress any failures.

Before dismounting from my soap box, I would like to quote two links to people skeptical to these archaic "science":

Acupuncture, Qigong, and 'Chinese Medicine' (http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html)

Acupuncture (http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html)

Give your money to the greedy pharma industry, that can help you in most cases, and don't waste it on dubious quacks who empty your wallet without helping you at all.

PFNADs
Ueli

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by Riccardo on Nov 5^th, 2002, 1:01am

Very, very good post, UELI. (and we need this......)
And I wholeheartedly agree .

Thanks

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by rain on Nov 5^th, 2002, 3:42am

great post....and with the info to back it up...WAY TO GO

Thanks from all of us suckers who might have otherwise tried it :)

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by Mark C on Nov 5^th, 2002, 11:22am

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by jonmach on Nov 5^th, 2002, 1:43pm

Had accupunture treatment in the throms of 8 kip pain
imidiatly reduced it to a 4 and then a shadow. carried the shadow for anouther10 hours and had anouther treatment went the night and second day with regular attacks but nothing over a 4 this is the first relief i have had in 2 weeks. i also got 6 hours of uniterupted sleep lkast night . and the 5:30 am alarm never went off. so i agree to disagree with your perception of chinese medicine.. thanks for the opinion
jonmach ;) :D

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by SteveY on Nov 5^th, 2002, 2:54pm

So are you saying you don't believe in accupuncture Ueli? ;)

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by jmorgan52 on Nov 6^th, 2002, 7:50am

Hi Ueli, have you had 1st hand experience of chinese medicine and acupunture in particular? I myself have not tried it, but I some have friends who swear by it , as well as herbalist and homeopathic methods. It may be all in the mind but it works for many (billions of chinese included?). The brain can produce its own chemicals to cure if given the right stimulus I guess. Who is to say if they are wrong? I am not advocating this for CH as I myself doubt it works, but may well work for other ailments. You have been quick to knock any alternative therapies as "snake oil". Have you ever tried any of them? I am personally convinced that my one month detoxification undertaken in April/May this year has either cured my CH (will know for sure in a few years time) or at least broken the cycle. Now 6 months HA free on an "alternative therapy" and feeling generally much healthier than for many years. Real Snake oil may even be just the thing for your CH?

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by sueellen83 on Nov 6^th, 2002, 11:40am

Good post Ueli.

Very infomative.

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by bronchas on Feb 8^th, 2003, 1:27am

Hi Ueli,

I do understand the difficulty of trying to grasp the existence of chi, let me remind you that science is far from explaining most pphenomenons that ocurr in this universe, I myself don´t find it as hard to understand the concept of a vital energy that runs through us, you use the example of a computer, well do you see the energy that powers you´re computer?, no, but this energy keeps it going, well so does chi work in our body. You might say that electrical energy is measurable by standard equipment. Well vital energy (CHI) is measurable as well, the russians and the chinese have done a lot of research and found many ways to prove it´s existence.

As far as proof that the manipulation of chi in the body by acupucture works or not, there are a lot of examples where it has, esepecially when it comes to pain, for example when president Richard Nixon went to China, one of the reporters who was travelling with him had apendicitis, so he was operated with no anesthesia, the pain was controlled by acupuncture only.

I have recently been diagnosed with CH, and I have started an acupuncture treatment, I am not taking any medicines so I will let you know how it goes as time goes by.

Thank you,

Daniel ;)

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by kim on Feb 8^th, 2003, 1:15pm

This is why I do not believe in Chinese Medicine:

Because I am not Chinese.

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by BobG on Feb 9^th, 2003, 11:55pm

Thank you Ueli. Very well said and done.

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by terrylch on Feb 10^th, 2003, 6:38am

:o
Hi Ueli,
This is just my impression. Don't get all heated up over it.
I get the feeling that you and way too many of the other people on this website work for the pharmacutical companies. Do you get a few $$$ for every time you post a yahoo for a drug, or doctors? It seems to me this site would be very interested in any method of combating CH that didn.t use drugs or doctors. But that isn't the case. I have noticed that when someone posts any positive results without using drugs or doctors, he gets lambasted big time. The negative put-downs run off anyone who might have a good idea. bye, terry

Title: Re: Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine
Post by jonny on Feb 10^th, 2003, 4:05pm

on 02/10/03 at 06:38:26, terrylch wrote:

I get the feeling that you and way too many of the other people on this website work for the pharmacutical companies. Do you get a few $$$ for every time you post a yahoo for a drug, or doctors?

LMMFYBO!!!!!!!

We are also spies for Mother Russia....LOL ;D

......................jonny (HONK)