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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> Lidocaine...
        
(Message started by: Prense on Dec 6^th, 2003, 11:33pm)

Title: Lidocaine...
Post by Prense on Dec 6^th, 2003, 11:33pm

OK, doc has me trying lidocaine 2% visc cause she is concerned with the amount of trex I use. I dab a little on a q-tip, then shove it in my nose on the affected side and kind of roll it around in there a little (as directed). Anyway, nothing happens at all except some minor numbness inside my nostril...am I missing something?? I have been giving this crap 30 minutes to do something before I stab...getting kind of old letting a CH run that long. I'm open to suggestions.

Chris

Title: Re: Lidocaine...
Post by mmaya613 on Dec 6^th, 2003, 11:54pm

No offense, but are you at the dentist or at a neurologist. If a doctor told me to stick a q-tip of lidocaine in my nose for a ch. I would laugh and walk out, and go home and look through my provider booklet for a new doctor. Just my thoughts. I hope your not offended. I know what your dealing with, but I don't think your doc does. [smiley=huh.gif]

Title: Re: Lidocaine...
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 7^th, 2003, 12:42am

on 12/06/03 at 23:33:31, Prense wrote:

I'm open to suggestions.

Chris

OK, so you're using a solution that is only 50% of what is the recommended strength so I guess you should do it twice?
Try your best to not lose any of the solution off the Q-tip along the sides of the nostril and since you have a viscose solution, be sure that you apply the solution directly onto the Sphenopalatine (Pterygopalatine) ganglion (nerve center). It's ok if its absorbed into the 5th (trigeminal) nerve although its believed to be it's absorbtion and affects upon the 7th nerve (facial) that aids in cluster relief with this application.

If you noticed a little sarcasm in my response, it isn't directed towards you, but to the medical establishment that has produced so little in the way of cluster treatments and what little has been shown to work, the medical community treating us, won't take the time to get it right.

Lidocaine does work for some people. The odds of it working are GREATLY reduced if not done properly.
Here's the info directly from the people that did the trials that showed how best it's used....

and I quote myself....
(please note the "older method" was older when I compiled this several years ago.)

This treatment was first discovered by Lee Kudrow, MD.
Still remains a very good treatment for many, and is probably the
least expensive "prescribed" treatment you can find.

Use 4% topical Lidocaine HCL, Brand name Xylocaine (Astra),
also available as a generic from many manufacturers (Roxane). It is
OLD, NOT compoundable, (as it is a "single, diluted chemical) and
cheap--approx. $20/50cc, but some pharmacies make a big deal
about it and charge outlandishly. It is off-the-shelf (not OTC), and
can be ordered easily by ANY U.S. pharmacy. It should cost about
$.05/treatment. Do NOT use
Lidocaine with epinephrine added,(which is what most dentists use
for local anesthesia).

Use a nose dropper, preferably graduated, and draw up .5ml or .5 cc
or 20 mg. (all the same thing if it's 4%). Dose is NOT that critical,
but administration technique is! An older method using cotton-
tipped swabs soaked in lidocaine is no longer used.

Lie supine (on your back) on a bed or bench with your head
"hanging off the end", and lowered about 60 degrees from the
horizontal.

Tilt head about 30 degrees TOWARD side of pain.

Insert dropper with lidocaine "in it" in the nostril on the side of the
pain until it is "comfortable"--not a critical distance.

VERY SLOWLY, squeeze dropper bulb and instill lidocaine so that
it "pools" at the back of the nasal passage (which is the WHOLE
idea) and doesn't go down throat. Try to take about 1 minute to
instill the .5cc and then stay in that position for 1 additional minute.

Get up slowly.

4% Lidocaine is somewhat bitter and, some may run down your
throat or out your nostril when you arise. It "numbs" any mucosal
surface it come in contact with, so do not eat or drink for 30
minutes as you may have a transient swallowing problem. You may
also feel numbness in your nose, or some localized burning
sensations, and you may also feel numbness along the second
branch of the trigeminal nerve including the upper teeth, gums and
tongue on the side of instillation. All of these side-effects should go
away within about 30 minutes.

This may be repeated in 2 hours, and, although the amount of
Lidocaine used is small by comparison to its other medical uses, the
safety window for repeating this treatment has NOT been
established.

"Close" to the rear of the nasal passages lies the Sphenopalatine
(Pterygopalatine) ganglion (a group of nerve cell bodies), and it is
the absorption into this area which is "believed" responsible for its
action. This is a large ganglion, and very complicated anatomical
area, which is also near the "second" branch of the fifth (trigeminal)
nerve, however it's the affect of lidocaine on the 7th (facial) nerve
which courses through this area which is thought to be relevant in
this instance. A temporary, chemical nerve block may be the reason
for efficacy.

Good luck prense, hope you find something to give you some relief.

PF

Title: Re: Lidocaine...
Post by Prense on Dec 7^th, 2003, 10:35am

on 12/06/03 at 23:54:45, mmaya613 wrote:

Careful what you say...

I already knew that Lidocaine has been an effective abortive for some folks...I just figured I wasn't doing this correctly.

PF, thanks for the advice...exactly what I was looking for. Ironically, she was talking about using a 4% solution when she discussed this with me. It wasn't until I reached the pharmacy (240 miles later) that I noticed it was a 2% solution script that she had written. I have no idea why she did that. I am having no side effects from the trex usage, and it is about 85-90% effective. Therefore, I am not really looking at this as a viable option, but I wanted to humor her.

Thanks again!

Chris

Title: Re: Lidocaine...
Post by mmaya613 on Dec 7^th, 2003, 3:44pm

It just seemed strange. Sorry for my tone. I can just see the beast laughing his ass off at Lidocaine for some reason. But I am Sorry.

:-/ :-*

Title: Re: Lidocaine...
Post by ave on Dec 7^th, 2003, 3:47pm

Silly as it may sound... there is another source of lidocaine and it comes in a spray.

It is called Stag Delay Spray and numbs and desensitizes male members. It is meant to prevent premature ejaculation if the cause of the disfunction is hypersensitivity of Dick's head.

You can buy the stuff at shops that sell marital aids.

I am just mentioning this because a spray may be easier to use.

Title: Re: Lidocaine...
Post by t_h_b on Dec 8^th, 2003, 11:09pm

Try 5% strength and ointment instead of the viscous jelly. Don't use the swab--squirt a good glob in, cover the other nostril, and snort it up. If it doesn't burn, it isn't working.

This helped me a lot. Early enough, it would sometimes abort the CH, provide some relief if not.

I started out with the swab and it just doesn't get enough in there and the jelly runs too much. The ointment will stay put unless your nose gets really runny when you have a CH.

Good luck!