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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl deriva
        
(Message started by: jakeman on Jan 31^st, 2005, 12:12am)

Title: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl deriva
Post by jakeman on Jan 31^st, 2005, 12:12am

Are any of the about uses for medical purpouses. Leave the orages alone.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by Bob_Johnson on Jan 31^st, 2005, 6:43am

Try again. Your question isn't clear.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by guesst on Jan 31^st, 2005, 9:58am

None of the medications you've listed are used to treat ch.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 31^st, 2005, 11:13am

Nope none of the above are any good for ch,but you seem to have a handle on usin em.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by guesst on Jan 31^st, 2005, 11:42am

on 01/31/05 at 11:13:05, vietvet2tours wrote:

but you seem to have a handle on usin em.

[smiley=crackup.gif]

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by jakeman on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 12:49am

Must have been wasted when I asked that question. Now, what question was I asking anyway? Oh, yes, do any of you know of legitimate uses for the opiate meds in the treatment of chronic cluster headaches? Either as an around the clock preventative therapy or just as an abortive med?

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by nani on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 12:54am

No. Proof: My last visit to the ER, I got 2 morphine/phenergan shots w/in one hour of each other and they did not even touch the pain.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by vietvet2tours on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 1:44pm

No use at all but if yer doin em how would ya know ya had a headache?

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by forgetfulnot on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 11:18pm

Methadone is the only narcotic I have seen peeps say helps cluster headache, YMMV.

Lee

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by pubgirl on Feb 3^rd, 2005, 7:22pm

A potential drug habit to add to my nicotine addiction and clusters, no thanks!

Opiates would be bottom of my list of things to try for CH

Think I'd probably go the home trepanning route first. ;;D

I'm almost not kidding here Jakeman.

Surely you haven't exhausted all other possibilities???

Because that seriously would be the only reason I can think of to use these drugs to "treat" CH. The CH gurus actively warn against their use, and although we can't say they are useless because there is small handful of people here who claim they work, there is equally a larger handful of people who have taken serious cocktails of drugs with no effect beyond being off their faces AND in pain. There is an even larger group of people here (i.e. most) who wouldn't touch them.

W the B

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by don on Feb 4^th, 2005, 7:06am

Quote:

Must have been wasted when I asked that question.

Quote:

Methadone

Might address a couple of issues.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by jakeman on Feb 9^th, 2005, 10:44pm

Actually I have exhausted all of my other options. For years the docs have been treating me as if I had Migraine headaches. I've tried just about every migraine medication known to man. None of them helped except Midrin worked twice. I had to take six capsules, but it did eventually take the edge off.

My pain doctor finally wanted to try Lortab 7.5/500. The stufff worked like a dream. For the first time in my life I got legitamate, complete and lasting relief. It was truly a miracle. They say that only about 8% of headache sufferers get relief from the opiates and that most people actually can get headaches from them. I guess I'm in that 8%. My problem is that I end up switching jobs a lot and my insurance changes so I have to go to new doctors who don't believe me and I have to go through the whole same regimen that doesn't work before they'll even consider the opiates. I understand why and I understand thier point of view, but it's still a very frustrating and very painful process.

So has anyone ever gotten any relief from the opiates? What about the emergency room? I've been there my share of times in total pain and recieved morphine, demerol and dilaudid as rescue meds. They all worked very well for me.

Like I've told my doctors, I'll eat dirt if you tell me it will take away the pain. I'm willing to try anything that works. For me, I know this works.

Thanks for your responses!

--Jake

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by Mr. Happy on Feb 9^th, 2005, 10:54pm

Glad you found some relief, but I'm thinking Clusters aren't what you got. Seriously, 7.5 mg of hydrocodone doesn't do squat for CH. You got something else.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by BobG on Feb 9^th, 2005, 11:16pm

Jakeman, I’m a little confused here. Have you been diagnosed with chronic cluster headaches. You have posted 3 times and haven’t mentioned any symptoms or reasons you think you may have clusters.
Have you seen a neurologist? Had a CAT scan or MRI?
You said you tried Midrin and it worked twice but you had to take six capsules. Was it the Midrin that worked or, if it was a cluster, did the headaches just end on their own?
I know it is a very personal question but I’m going to ask anyway. Why do you change jobs frequently?
I’ve been reading this board for quite some time now and I remember very few people say narcotics helped with their clusters. 99.99% have said don’t try it. It will either trigger an attack or cause rebound headaches.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by forgetfulnot on Feb 10^th, 2005, 1:52am

on 02/09/05 at 23:16:15, BobG wrote:

Bob, most mouth taken narc's do no good, just as mouth taken in the ER. The only effect way for narc's given is Iv or IM. These people saying no relief from narck's must be taking them orally.

Lee

PS: Worked for me,

Member of the clusterbusters.com

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by nani on Feb 10^th, 2005, 9:17am

on 02/10/05 at 01:52:37, forgetfulnot wrote:

Bob, most mouth taken narc's do no good, just as mouth taken in the ER. The only effect way for narc's given is Iv or IM. These people saying no relief from narck's must be taking them orally.
Lee

PS: Worked for me,

Member of the clusterbusters.com

No...if you read my post you would see I got two shots. Narcotics do not work for CH.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by taraann on Feb 10^th, 2005, 9:42am

I think all your comment should say narcotics don't work for YOUR CH. You are not a doctor. Narcs usually don't work for me either. Staydol works slightly for me for about 2 weeks then its useless for ME. Also I have had Dilaudid work for me on a couple occasions, but only after several doses through IV (the doc once commented that I had enough to knock out a horse, but was still in pain and awake)

Alot of ppl here think they are CH guru's. Being helpful and informative is wonderful and the whole point But telling ppl what WILL or WON'T work soley cause thats what they experienced or cause it's the majorities experience does NOT mean it's right for EVERYONE.

Edited cause of typing errors.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by don on Feb 11^th, 2005, 7:39am

Quote:

Narcotics do not work for CH.

But in extemes when you can no longer tolerate the endless pain they will afford some relief. I dont advocate narcs as an extended cluster treatment but there were many times when an ER administered narcotic saved me from going over the edge. A blanket statement like narcs dont work is misleading. The phentanyl patch has helped many people cope.

Quote:

You are not a doctor.

That right.

No one here is and I have found very few absolutes with Clusters.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by Kevin_M on Feb 11^th, 2005, 10:03am

Rapoport and Sheftell's book, "Conquering Headache" has given brief mention about it.

Acute Treatment of Cluster Headache

Daily use of opiates is not recommended, due to risk of dependency and rebound headaches.
--

Cluster Headache Treatment

Pain medication is not specific for cluster headache, but it may decrease the intensity of the pain if nothing else has worked. Cluster patients must not use opiates (narcotics) on a daily basis.
--

Miscellaneous Medications

Rarely do we prescribe opioids, both because they usually do not work well in migraine and are addictive, but they can be tried if all else fails. Injectable opioids such as meperidine (Demerol), should be used no more than twice per month; tablet forms nor more than twice weekly. This may be accompanied by promethazine (Phenergan) or hydroxyzine (Vistaril); some centers may administer morphine. Butorphanol (Stadol) can be given by injection or nasal spray.
--

Specialized Inpatient Therapy

When headaches become daily, severe, incapacitating, and when they are associated with disability, decreased quality of life, or rebound syndromes from analgesic and/or ergotamine overuse, aggressive therapy with intravenous medication and cautious withdrawal of the offending medications must begin.
--

Don's statement:

Quote:

I dont advocate narcs as an extended cluster treatment but there were many times when an ER administered narcotic saved me from going over the edge

pretty much reflects a similar message.

Kevin M

*edit* also, job performance would be a concern for me, insurance is tied to it.

*edit* under Cluster Headache Treatment, above, the last statement, is one rare time I have seen the word "must" used in the book.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by don on Feb 11^th, 2005, 11:31am

Thanks Kevin.

That provides a comprehensive evaluation of how narcotics play a role in CH.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by vietvet2tours on Feb 11^th, 2005, 12:06pm

Not one time was the word Oxygen used in this entire thread.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by don on Feb 11^th, 2005, 3:33pm

Probably because oxygen is not a narcotic.

I get your point though.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by bigred on Feb 12^th, 2005, 10:35pm

The thing you get from these medicines is an inpatiant treatment program to break you down and start again.
Narcotics should never be used to treat CH.
At least thats what my new doctor told me when I informed him my old doctor was giving me morphine tabs to beat the beast.
bigred ;;D

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by don on Feb 13^th, 2005, 7:07am

Quote:

Narcotics should never be used to treat CH.
At least thats what my new doctor told me when I informed him my old doctor was giving me morphine tabs to beat the beast.

I agree. For long term treatment, but, as Kev posted.....

Quote:

Rarely do we prescribe opioids, both because they usually do not work well in migraine and are addictive, but they can be tried if all else fails.

They do play a role.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by forgetfulnot on Feb 14^th, 2005, 2:16am

on 02/10/05 at 09:17:14, nani wrote:

No...if you read my post you would see I got two shots. Narcotics do not work for CH.

I’m am sorry little girl, but you are incorrect. Maybe not for you but to make an all inclusive statement such as yours is incompetent. And unhelpful to the many people who can’t take Imitrex for example. If you have science, post it, if you have an opinion post that as well . But be prepared for 30 year c/heads, like me to nullify your ranting. Narcotics given with the proper boosters will knock you out and fifteen minuets, later you have no headache. I played this game for twenty years, not an addict and thank GOD Imitrex works for me.

Lee

Edit: 100 mg Demerol always worked for me w/phenergan 25mg hurt like a SOB. They never gave me Morphine

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by catlind on Feb 14^th, 2005, 8:29am

I have tried the methadone regimen. Yes it got rid of the headaches, however it was prescribed wrong, I was told to take 1 10mg tablet 4 times a day - I ended up in the hospital damn near dead with methadone poisoning among other things.

I won't touch that stuff again no how no way, but it did get rid of my headaches.

Cat

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by don on Feb 14^th, 2005, 8:33am

Methadone also ranks high among the most difficult drugs to withdraw from.

Alcohol and Benzos fill out the top three.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by guesst on Feb 14^th, 2005, 1:35pm

on 02/11/05 at 12:06:12, vietvet2tours wrote:

Not one time was the word Oxygen used in this entire thread.

I was thinking the same thing.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by Karla on Feb 14^th, 2005, 11:09pm

Morphine or demerol wouldn't touch a ch. Dilaudid 4 mg would kill my ha and knock me out cold. I would wake up and not have a ha for another 2-4 days.

Methadone 10mg am and 10mg pm worked great for me for a year. It keeped me out off the er for migraine or ch. It keeped my chronic ch gone for over a year.

I switched to duragesic fentanly patch. 50mcg. I have not had a ch In almost 1 1/2 years that is amazing miricle to me. I am not buzzed or high. I can function fully and have a quality of life back.

I say narcotics do have a role after everything has been tried and nothing works.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by Katie54 on Feb 15^th, 2005, 9:16am

Hello fellow CH's, I just wanted to share this wierd experience to see if anyone else has had this happen to them. My CH usually come from June - Sept, every day...but a couple of years ago I had to have surgery for a pulled tendon in my hand (in april) and when June came around no CH...and last year I had to had surgery on my Thyroid and again no CH last summer. Now I do not know if the surgery had anything to do with me not getting the CH or what, but I think it is strange that since surgery no CH. Now I was given Morphine after the surgery, (you know the kind where you can pump it yourself) and don't know if it was this or the meds the anethist(sp) gave me to knock me out. Let me know if anyone else has this happen to them.

Title: Re: Heroin, Opium, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl de
Post by nani on Feb 15^th, 2005, 1:34pm

Hi Katie...welcome. Sometimes our cycles change. Some folks may only have an episode every 5 years. It's hard to say whether your surgeries had anything to do with the change in your cycle. My sister has episodic CH and each episode will prompt her to try something different. This year she gave up sugar and insisted that was why her HAs stopped. I explained that maybe her episode was over and she insisted it was because she'd detoxed. Who knows? We're all different and the beast will keep changing the rules of the game. Those are the only constants in CH. Pain free wishes, nani