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New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> My "alternate therapy"  is ready to
(Message started by: Squanto on Oct 7th, 2005, 11:14am)

Title: My "alternate therapy"  is ready to
Post by Squanto on Oct 7th, 2005, 11:14am
I'm a new member. I've been lurking here for about a year.

I'm a 70 yo WM, onset of cluster headaches over a year ago. Non-smoker, rare alcohol, no triggers uncovered (yet)
Classic signs and symptoms. About Kip 6-7 when first started.
Had a tapering course of Decamethasone and 6 months of Verapmil. This reduced the intensity of the pain but also seemed to make it more constant. Low grade pain and autonomic signs nearly all day every day with "spikes" every 6 hours. 5AM, 11AM, 5 PM and 11 PM.O2 via high flow mask helped only for about 5 minutes after O2 stopped. Nasal Lidocaine "moves" the pain further back in my head. Only use it when I want a "change." Imitrex (3 mg by injection) aborts a HA until the next one shows up 6 hours later. Tried Melatonin, Vit B2, Magnesium, and Calcium. Stopped everything but Lidocaine and Imitrex inj about 3 months ago. No signiifcant change in pattern or intensity. I haven't used Imitrex in 2 weeks in prep for first "alternate therapy" dose.

I know there's no cure. But I'd like some respite. Ordered a PC grow kit from the Netherlands. It's been growing for 2 weeks and I have my first harvest drying as I write. Ought to be cracker-dry by this weekend.

I've read about SPUT, sip, PinkySharkMark's tea and other dosing regimens. I have questions about all:

SPUT: a "less than eraser sized piece under the tongue" Dry or fresh? How long? Suck or chew or just let it lay there?  How often to repeat?

Sip method:  I read the plan Flash wrote in July 2004. Is the 0.25 gm fresh or dry?  In tea? Eaten?

I read that high heat degrades the active ingredient - this makes me wonder about effect of the boiling water used in making the tea.

Lots of questions and a long post. More to add but I'll cut it short (well a little shorter than it could have been.)

TIA
Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by SteCo on Oct 7th, 2005, 12:24pm
Hi Squanto,
Appears you have been doing alot of reading....GOOD for you!!


on 10/07/05 at 11:14:24, Squanto wrote:
I'mStopped everything but Lidocaine and Imitrex inj about 3 months ago. No signiifcant change in pattern or intensity. I haven't used Imitrex in 2 weeks in prep for first "alternate therapy" dose.

Yea...try your best to stay clear of trex with this treatment...you still on lido or off that too?

Quote:
I know there's no cure. But I'd like some respite. Ordered a PC grow kit from the Netherlands. It's been growing for 2 weeks and I have my first harvest drying as I write. Ought to be cracker-dry by this weekend.
AND you have a white thumb to boot!!! 2 weeks??? amazing! I wish!!!

Quote:
I've read about SPUT, sip, PinkySharkMark's tea and other dosing regimens. I have questions about all:

SPUT: a "less than eraser sized piece under the tongue" Dry or fresh? How long? Suck or chew or just let it lay there? How often to repeat?

I use dry sputs. I place them directly under the tongue as it seems to work faster this way.....similiar to homeopathic thinkings..lot of small blood vessels under there to get the goodness in your system quicker. I kinda "mush" them under my tongue and leave them there until they are nasty tasteless noodles. I have used them to abort individual CH's (to buy some time (relief) until I can properly dose). I have also used them to clear out residual shadows. So far..my usage of them is not enough to close down anything for a larger dose. But everyone is different.  

Quote:
Sip method: I read the plan Flash wrote in July 2004. Is the 0.25 gm fresh or dry? In tea? Eaten?
I am pretty sure dried and yes in tea form..been utilized for mini doses (more like taking daily amounts like traditional CH meds I think). I have not personally tried it yet.

Quote:
I read that high heat degrades the active ingredient - this makes me wonder about effect of the boiling water used in making the tea.
Again..... proof you have read well LOL. I have done the tea. This process helps eliminate unwanted gas otherwise that may be present by taking them whole. Following the tea recipe (vit C.) helps also extract the goodness out of the meat too. Just do not chop them up until you are ready to add it to the tea brew...the oxygen in the air will degrade the goodness as well. I think the short amount of boiling does not do a ton harm (heat wise) to the mixture...it works just fine.. trust me!!! Just follow the directions and you'll be good to go.


Quote:
Lots of questions and a long post. More to add but I'll cut it short (well a little shorter than it could have been.
Ask away!

Also get that O2 set up again (link on left Pay particular attention to the high flow regulator and mask) as it may start working a LOT better when used with this treatment. Some folks (like me) will get some post dose hits.....just send them back to where they came from with the O2

SteCo

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by nani on Oct 7th, 2005, 1:28pm
Hi Squanto. You've sure done your homework! Good for you. Ditto to everything SteCo said. The only thing I would add is that someone suggested getting the water just before it reaches the full boil stage.
Take a look at LSA, too. Some of us have had success using a few psilocybin doses followed by a few LSA doses.
Keep us posted, OK?
Pain free wishes, nani

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 8th, 2005, 7:04am
SteCo & Nani, thanks for your replies.

First:  About the Lidocaine via the nose. I usally reserve that for special circumstances. If I know I'm going be somewhere where I to have to be sharp mentally, I'll use the Lidocaine.  During the headache peak my thoughts run around like water on a hot griddle. Just can't concentrate. The Lidocaine changes the quality of the headache enough to get by. I don't use it very often. I'm concerned about developing an allergy to it and then it (and Lidocaine's  cousins) couldn't be used if needed in the future for dental work or minor wounds.

Second: about the LSA (lysergic acid amide): There's a couple of things that bother me about going that route. I've spent almost 3 months getting to the stage of having the "alternate therapy" ready to take. To interrupt now and trying to find a source and actually obtaining the seeds (Hawiian Baby... etc) while my dried product is sitting on the shelf,  is a real obstacle for me. AND I'm a little concerned about the reported possible toxicity of the seeds. I feel pretty sure that psilocybin is "self-limiting" as far as toxicity is concerned. Especially since I'm growing my own. I'd feel differently if I were buying 'em whole from someone or picking them in a cow pasture. So for now, I'll pass on the LSA.

Third: My initial dose and follow-up dosage is problematic based on the things I've read here and other web sites. Based on what I've learned, I'm going to try for a Level 2 experience (1.5 gm dried stuff prepared as tea) and follow up with a second dose (if needed) in 5 days.  Being "chronic" and in a cycle that started 14 months ago, I acknowledge that my chances to sucessfully abort the HA and terminate the cycle are slim. But i'm willing to give it a try.

Fourth:  When reading about dosage, preparation and storage I find a LOT of contradictions and things that just don't make sense.
For example, the oft repeated statement, "I have used them to abort individual CH's (to buy some time (relief) until I can properly dose)." What's that mean? If you can take one dose, why not another?
The "arguments" for significant doses spaced over somewhat rigid intervals of 4-5 days seems contradictory (to me)  to how folks report the sip or SPUT methods work.
Another example: The statement that the mushrooms should be finely chopped shortly before instilling in just-boiled water "because Oxygen causes the active ingredient to degrade." Yet folks say they've stored the dried product up to a year in a jar or baggy (even tho' plastic is said to also degrade the ingredient) with no loss of effectiveness. The air that the stuff is stored in is 19% oxygen! It don't compute.

I suppose this confusion (on my part) is because, so far, nearly everything is anecdotal and there's a lot of "science" (ie. the chemistry) intertwined with human variability and what actually may be several different pathophysiologies all falling presently under the one diagnostic label of "Cluster Headache."

I'm post something here when I get back from my "trip."

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by pattik on Oct 9th, 2005, 10:05am

on 10/07/05 at 11:14:24, Squanto wrote:
I read that high heat degrades the active ingredient - this makes me wonder about effect of the boiling water used in making the tea.


Squanto, I believe that you read correctly.  It has been my understanding from my reading that the correct method for making the tea is to boil the water, then remove from
the heat, add the shrooms, cover and leave to steep for 20 minutes.That way you get max extraction and do not degrade the active ingredients.

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Mr. Happy on Oct 9th, 2005, 8:02pm

on 10/08/05 at 07:04:56, Squanto wrote:
I'm post something here when I get back from my "trip."

Neato, Squanto.


on 10/09/05 at 10:05:03, pattik wrote:
It has been my understanding from my reading that the correct method for making the tea is to boil the water, then remove from the heat, add the shrooms, cover and leave to steep for 20 minutes.That way you get max extraction and do not degrade the active ingredients.

Tried that. Lotta work, mess, and if the heat thing is tru, then there *should* be problems.
I just chaw `em down. Have eaten worse. No big deal, and another satisfied customer.

Man......you're older than Charlie.
Wowsers.
RJ

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is read
Post by forgetfulnot on Oct 9th, 2005, 10:57pm

Tried that. Lotta work, mess, and if the heat thing is tru, then there *should* be problems.
I just chaw `em down. Have eaten worse. No big deal, and another satisfied customer.

Man......you're older than Charlie.
Wowsers.
RJ
[/quote]


No need to make tea or suppositories, like hap said just chew up up and swallow.

Lee

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is read
Post by SteCo on Oct 10th, 2005, 11:01am

Quote:
Third: My initial dose and follow-up dosage is problematic based on the things I've read here and other web sites. Based on what I've learned, I'm going to try for a Level 2 experience (1.5 gm dried stuff prepared as tea) and follow up with a second dose (if needed) in 5 days. Being "chronic" and in a cycle that started 14 months ago, I acknowledge that my chances to sucessfully abort the HA and terminate the cycle are slim. But i'm willing to give it a try.

Hopefully you will be very surprised (on the positive) on the outcome. I would do (and have done) the same amount to begin to break up the cycle.

Quote:
Fourth: When reading about dosage, preparation and storage I find a LOT of contradictions and things that just don't make sense.
For example, the oft repeated statement, "I have used them to abort individual CH's (to buy some time (relief) until I can properly dose)." What's that mean? If you can take one dose, why not another?
The "arguments" for significant doses spaced over somewhat rigid intervals of 4-5 days seems contradictory (to me) to how folks report the sip or SPUT methods work.
Another example: The statement that the mushrooms should be finely chopped shortly before instilling in just-boiled water "because Oxygen causes the active ingredient to degrade." Yet folks say they've stored the dried product up to a year in a jar or baggy (even tho' plastic is said to also degrade the ingredient) with no loss of effectiveness. The air that the stuff is stored in is 19% oxygen! It don't compute.


I should have qualified the boiling issue a bit further. Although I have let the mushies actually boil (once or twice, for a VERY short time) and then let them steep, I just follow the tea recipe exactly.....have had no issues with them not being potent enough.

On the storage and chopping deal. I made this mistake awhile back. I pre-chopped (did not know o2 would degrade them) a good quantity of material and then measured out a portion - for steeping and placed the rest in a baggie. The chopped up material in the baggie definitely lost alot of potency. So only chop up what you will be using for the tea. Leaving them whole helps preserve them and  helps limits o2 degradation, although I think there is still some degree of degradation that does occur. Does this clear up your concerns?

About the sputs/sips deal. The smaller amounts utilized for these are theorized not large enough to shut down the receptors for larger doses. I am sure there is a "boundary" of sorts for this, but it is not known what this is. Also, each of us are different so one amount may shut down the receptors for one person and not do anything for another. To further explain, if a person did a 1.5g dose on a Friday night (reaching say a level 2)....then did an equal amount the following night, it is likely that person would not feel alot. So the larger amounts shut things down and this is the reason the 5 or so day waiting period came about.  

Please update on your progress when you get a chance.

SteCo






Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 10th, 2005, 11:39am
Well, so far this experience hasn't been what I expected.

First of all, I'd planned to take my first dose on Sunday. The bits were 'cracker-dry" and ready.
I awoke Sunday morning pain free for the first time in months! Suggestion? Synchronicity? Happy fortune?  Hell, I don't know!  If I'd taken a dose I'd be claiming the psilocybwhatever had done the deed. But I hadn't.  Sunday passed with only a short "spike" at about 5 PM, the usual time. Lasted less than 30 minutes. Good night sleep and awakened today (Monday) pain free. WTF ! ? !

I didn't have breakfast and debated for an hour or so whether or not to dose. I read the posts saying esstentially, "Don't worry about the tea, just scarf'em raw." or words to that effect. So, about 9:00 I decided if I didn't do it today, the rest of the week was full of things that wouldn't tolerate me being high. Plus if I somehow had timed this whole thing at the end of a very long cycle (doubtful) maybe a dose now would be appropriate to keep a "next cycle" at bay.

So, I blenderized 2 fresh caps/stems and 1,000 mg of Vitamin C in 8 oz of Orange juice.  Chugged it down. No bad taste. No nuthin'

It's 3 hours later. Burped a few times.  Farted once. Feel a little drunk. i.e. unsteady  on my feet, can't type worth a damn. no colors, no giggles, have a low grade tension-type head that wouldn't deserve an asprin. Nothing at all like the CH "left sided-boring pain in the eye, sweaty forehead-stuffy nose-oh damn is it gonna get better" pain I've had for the past year or more. And no mind bending colors or funny preceptions. Just about what 3 gin n tonics would do - back in the old days of first Liberty after 30 days at sea.

So, can the  psilocywhatever get any credit. Unless verbal diarrhea counts - Jury's still out.

When I can type better - I'll follow up

Squanto  

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is read
Post by SteCo on Oct 10th, 2005, 12:59pm

Quote:
First of all, I'd planned to take my first dose on Sunday. The bits were 'cracker-dry" and ready.
I awoke Sunday morning pain free for the first time in months! Suggestion? Synchronicity? Happy fortune? Hell, I don't know! If I'd taken a dose I'd be claiming the psilocybwhatever had done the deed. But I hadn't. Sunday passed with only a short "spike" at about 5 PM, the usual time. Lasted less than 30 minutes. Good night sleep and awakened today (Monday) pain free. WTF ! ? !
LOL...the power of suggestion maybe??? Any chance you have been "handling" your material in the last few days? Believe it or not, some migraine sufferers have gotten relief simply by holding a small quantity in the palm of the hand for a short period of time. Never read any CHr doing this, but ya never know. Could be a natural remission time too. [smiley=huh.gif]


Quote:
So, about 9:00 I decided if I didn't do it today, the rest of the week was full of things that wouldn't tolerate me being high. Plus if I somehow had timed this whole thing at the end of a very long cycle (doubtful) maybe a dose now would be appropriate to keep a "next cycle" at bay.
IMHO, that is a drawback of the therapy...you have to set aside some time to go thru it....but beats the heck out of the alternative - the Ch's. And yes,  maintenance  doses, doses that are taken out of cycle, prior to typical cycle periods, season changes, etc., have been shown to delay or miss entire cycles.

Quote:
It's 3 hours later. Burped a few times. Farted once.
Only once?!?!...should have been five minimum...what did you do wrong???
Just kiddding ;;D ;;D

Try to keep track of what level you reached..will be help you down the road and your tolerance level.

Quote:
Unless verbal diarrhea counts
counts for 1/4 pt. out of 1.

Whatever is happening, VERY happy to hear you are getting some relief!!!
SteCo
edit; spellage

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 11th, 2005, 6:43am
Damn !!

I don't think I reached "Level 2" yesterday with my initial dose. About 4 hours after injesting I felt pretty "normal."  No headache.  Just a little stomach queasiness that lasted until I went to bed/sleep (about 11PM)

Awakened a 4 AM with a KIP 7. Earlier and more intense than the "usual."  Prowled around the house for 15-20 minutes wishing could shoot up the Imitrex or had O2 on hand. Instilled the nasal Lidocaine and within minutes was back to a KIP 3. Now 7:30 and it's about KIP 2-3.

I'm gonna stay "detoxed" and dose again on Friday (4 days) with a few more caps.

Thanks for the support.

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by nani on Oct 11th, 2005, 7:58am
It's normal to have more intense activity for a few days after you dose. That seems to be a sign that it's "doing something". I'd wait at least 5 days before dosing again, just to see if it's made a difference.
I have used Red Bull to abort post dose hits, and it's worked well for me. You have to slam it down the minute you feel it ramping up. Caution: there a lot of caffiene in it, so it will likely keep you awake for a while. I've also heard reports that a teaspoon of powdered ginger in water will abort quite well. Worth a try, I think. Keep us posted.
pain free wishes, nani

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Jeepgun on Oct 11th, 2005, 9:53am
Good luck, Squanto. I hope that you get this treatment dialed-in pretty soon, and get on to some pain-free time. Hang in there.

-Frank

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Ikeyboy on Oct 13th, 2005, 2:25pm
I have done and still do this treatment and would like to say something about storage and oxygen.  I dried a bunch and stored them in baby food jars.  After weighing the proper dosage, I placed them into the jar with a small ball of drying agent (calcium chloride) tied up in a piece of my wife's old panty hose.  I then removed all of the oxygen by using a
CO2 cartridge (like for bb guns, etc.) with a water pipe saddle tap valve (like what comes with an ice maker kit) and a piece of small plastic hose.  CO2 is heavier that oxygen, so it forces the bad stuff out and stays in the jar until I can get a lid on it.  I also put a small bead of silicone sealant aroung the top of the jar before I tighten the lid.  I put up 16 jars 2 1/2 years ago and can still get a good dose from one of the jars.  They may be impotent now, but I won't know until the end of the month when I do my annual dose again.  I will keep you posted.  I hope this tidbit helps with the storage issue.

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Ikeyboy on Oct 13th, 2005, 2:27pm
Oh, I forgot to say that I put them in the freezer (frost free type) until needed.

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 13th, 2005, 7:42pm
Thanks all for your imput.

Except for the big hit the morning after my 1st dose it has been a pretty benign week. Can't say I've been entirely pain free, but everything is SOooo much better than several weeks ago.  Mostly I just have a very dull ache in the area of my usual CH. I've had periods of  the autonomic symptoms (sweaty forehead, congested eye and nose, droopy eyelid, irritabllity and difficutly focusing on fine details) usually peaking at the times of day when my CH usually "spiked."

Other than that  - the only side effect I had is a feeling a little "scatterbrained." i.e. more dyslexic than usual, trouble adding columns of numbers, stumbling over words, sorta "absent minded professor" thought patterns. I haven't the foggiest idea if this is related to my dose Monday or not. Or is just my 70 year old head.

Anyway, tomorrow brings me to 5th day after the first dose. So I'll dose again. This time I'll follow the suggestion(s) of several of you made in private messages and use 2+ gms of dried product made up in tea.  Note: the orange juice and blender method just seems so much simpler but...in for a penny, in for a pound.

I'll report here again when I'm "on the other side."

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Mr. Happy on Oct 13th, 2005, 11:48pm

on 10/13/05 at 19:42:36, Squanto wrote:
I haven't the foggiest idea if this is related to my dose Monday or not. Or is just my 70 year old head.

Praise Wotan! Alive at 70, and still dosing.


Quote:
This time I'll follow the suggestion(s) of several of you made in private messages and use 2+ gms of dried product made up in tea.  Note: the orange juice and blender method just seems so much simpler but...in for a penny, in for a pound.

Old hippies never die. They just smell that way


Quote:
I'll report here again when I'm "on the other side."

We talking X Files or ClusterBusters? Us "kids" have inquiring minds.

Just passin' thru,
RJ


Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 14th, 2005, 4:32am
Hi Squanto,

Glad to see things are improving for you. Please continue to keep us updated on your progress.

PFDANs to you!

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Jeepgun on Oct 14th, 2005, 7:33am

on 10/14/05 at 04:32:36, Chillrmn1 wrote:
Hi Squanto,

Glad to see things are improving for you. Please continue to keep us updated on your progress.

PFDANs to you!



Ditto. Very best wishes, Squanto! :)

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is read
Post by SteCo on Oct 14th, 2005, 8:52am

on 10/13/05 at 19:42:36, Squanto wrote:
Can't say I've been entirely pain free, but everything is SOooo much better than several weeks ago.


Amazing what a little fungi will do.

All the best!
SteCo

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 15th, 2005, 9:32pm
Holy Shit ! ! !  I am REALLY too old to do this stuff!

I am now 7 hours post-dose.

I ain't EVER going to do that again!  The only thing I can compare my afternoon experience to was the afternoon 15 years ago when my appendix burst.  Without the belly pain but nearly everything else was similar. delirum, anxiety, embarassement, drenching sweats and time stood still for at least 3 hours.

Scared the hell out of my wife and my dog (a 80 pound mixed black Lab) totally freaked out.

Now that all that's out of the way, here's the details"
I have had NO prescription or OTC meds for the past 2 + weeks, except  nasal lidocaine as mentioned previously.

I had "dosed" on 10/10 using two fresh caps (each  about the size of a nickel) blenderized in Orange Juice and Vit C  Hardly any side effects (see previous ramblings)

It being 5+ days later, I followed what seemed like good advice and prepared 2.0 gms of DRIED product (OBTW if someone wants the scales - private message me and I'll send'em the scalesfor free. I'll pay the postage. I aint gonna use 'em again) in the reciepe posted by PinkMarkShark. Only deviation, after the tea cooled I put ice in it. Drank 1.75 cups of tea over 15 minutes.

About 45 minutes later I began to see very pretty color changes to the paintings we have on our living room walls.  Not feeling all that good tho', I went to lay down in bed.  The next 4 hours were pure hell!

I kept reassuring my wife, "I'm okay. This will pass. You don't have to call 9-1-1."  But I was thinking, "In six hours this will be all over - I hope.  If she has me taken to the ER, it'll cost us $3,000 to do what I'm going to have to do at home in my own bed."

I kept telling her, "The good news is I don't have a headache."  But to myself I was saying, "I'll  settle for the damn headache!"

Couldn't vomit. Only burp and burp and burp. ( I had thouroughly filtered out all the "bits" so the tea was pretty "clear.") Sweated like a horse. Drenched my underwear and the bedding.  I think I dozed off a couple of times. But the damn clock didn't move.  

Finally, after about 4 hours, I felt well enough to stagger into our living  room and asked my wife to fix me a scrambled egg and some toast.  Ate it and the burping slacked off

Right now, I feel a little tremulous, a littel unsteady  on my feet and damn-it be-careful-what-you-pray-for. there'e a dull pain behind my left eye and my left foreheard is sweaty.

We'll see what the morrow shall bring. I'd been looking at ways to store  my "extra product." Well, forget that! I repeat, I AIN'T DOING THAT AGAIN! If someone wants to claim I did something wrong, well tough shit. I AIN'T GONNA DO IT AGAIN

I'll give post-dose follow-ups until it bores eveybody. BUT I ain't gonna do that again!  Did I mention, that I  ain't.....

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by vig on Oct 15th, 2005, 10:02pm
the LSA seeds can supply some of the effective medicine without the trippy effects....

Hawaiian Baby WoodRose
Morning Glory
Rivea Corymbosa

glad you're OK Squanto
Hope you'll be pain free

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 15th, 2005, 10:08pm
Let's hope this did the trick for you, because it seems that you a had a bit of a bad trip... but on 2gr? That's unusual...
Keep posting about your progress!

and as Mr. Happy would say:
"Praise Wotan! Alive at 70, and still dosing."

Good luck,
Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Mr. Happy on Oct 15th, 2005, 10:26pm

on 10/15/05 at 21:32:51, Squanto wrote:
Holy Shit ! ! !  I am REALLY too old to do this stuff!

Well......that's kinda what I thought from the beginning.....especially if you weren't part of Leary's frenzy way back when. Trying this stuff for the first time, when you should be measuring your fiber and Geritol.....well, you win the Balls of the Year award as far as I'm concerned. Like you, the whole hallucinogenic thing is WAY outta my league. Did my damndest to be a good little Hippie back then, but never did find any of the UNIVERSAL JOY, ENLIGHTENMENT, and ETERNAL SATISFACTION the rest of `em seemed to enjoy. Scared the shit outta me.

Two grams was balls indeed, from my perspective. Can choke down one gram, if it's crappy stock, and manage the ride......but I'm too old for this shit as well. Hope your O2 program works out a little better. That, and a nice bowl of oatmeal.

Woodstock sucked too.
RJ

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 15th, 2005, 10:44pm
Even though there will be no future doses for you, a good thing to do is to ingest the mushrooms on an empty stomach. If you're gonna swallow down a turkey before doing this type of treatment, it's gonna suck solid all the way through.
Word of advice for the young and old
Wishing you well,
Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 16th, 2005, 6:30am
Hi Squanto,

Hope to see your CH benefitted. Whether you stop dosing or not, please continue to update us on your condition.

Just a thought, you did appear to benefit from the much smaller dose the first go round, without the uncomfortable side effects. Possibly this would be better suited for you, as in sputs.

Again, please keep us informed on how you're doing regardless of how you treat your CH.

Edited to add: You may also want to consider Vig's suggestion on trying the seeds. Lots of folks have reported success with the seeds including myself.

PFDANs to you.

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 16th, 2005, 11:51am
As Chillrmn just said, if you need to do a maintenance dose, consider the seeds.
Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds are natural of course, and you won't have any of the undesirable side effects.

Ask any of us where to buy them. Don't go to a flower/plant store, as their seeds are often treated with pesticides. You could get sick from that.

Out of curiosity, did you ever do any psychedelics in your youth? Or was this your very first time... just wondering.
I have never heard of such bad reactions to mushrooms before with such low dose.

Do you know what kind of mushrooms they were (cambodians, equadorians, ???)
Some species have more of a kick and psychedelic properties than others.

Also, I asked you before, but did you eat prior to taking them?

Do you have any other conditions besides CH? Physical or mental?

I'm just trying to figure out why you got so "sick".

Also, keep in mind that the first 4-5 days after dosing can be hellish as far as the hits go. Don't be too concerned if you get more attacks at different hours than your regular hits. Make sure you have 02 available and suck on it the minute you feel any twinges in your head.

Please keep us posted and again, best of luck to you!

Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by BikerBob on Oct 16th, 2005, 12:31pm
Rex, the shrooms Squanto used were Mexican.

Note from Wikipedia:


Quote:
Please note that individual brain chemistry plays a significant role in determining appropriate doses. For a modest psychedelic effect, a minimum of one gram of dried cubensis mushrooms is ingested orally. 0.25-1 gram is usually sufficient to produce a mild effect, 1-2.5 grams usually provides a moderate effect. 2.5 grams and higher usually produces strong effects. For most people, 3.5 dried grams (1/8 oz) would be considered a high dose and likely to produce a very intense experience. Above this, the mushroom experience rapidly becomes overwhelming. For a few rare people, doses as small as 0.25 grams can produce full-blown effects normally associated with very high doses. For most people, however, that dose level would result in virtually no effects.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stropharia_cubensis

BB

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 16th, 2005, 12:47pm
Thanks Bob...  ;)
Well, he did ok the first time with 2 fresh caps, except for the burps and the one fart! ;;D
I know that 2 fresh caps is probably not much at all, and I think the age factor has something to do with it.
But, again, you're right... doses can affect you a different way from one day to another! I'm speaking from experience...

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 16th, 2005, 1:27pm
First to answer some of the questions

1) I ate a light lunch (fruit and Doritos chips) I dosed 3 hours later. Stomach should have been pretty much empty by then.

2) No, I never did psychelics in my youth (see I can't even spell it) And the number of times I've been commode hugging drunk is less than 2-3. (Tip: Don't ever try to eat a Balute (sp?), an aged fertilized egg, in the Phillipines when you're sober.)

3) I'm in good health. Actually, I think I'm a pretty young 70 year old. Of course, folks in their 30's-40's might find that hard to believe. (Just wait, guys. ) No medical problems except the chronic CH ( aka Hemicrania continua ICD Code Hemicrania:346.9 ) Taking no medications for any medical problem.

4) The Amazing Nature grow kit was sold to me as Stropharia cubensis, which I believe is the European name for Psilocybin cubensis. Are they also called "Mexican?" When I compare pictures of the P C's to mine they look alike - whatever that means.

5) When I (carefully) weighed the dry product, it looked to my untrained eye to be about what 2-3 fresh caps would have looked like dried.  After the storm started I was pretty sure I'd screwed the pooch and taken too much. But there wasn't anything I could think of to do except ride it out.

It's now coming up on 23 hours since started to drink the tea. Today has been sorta hungover feeling. Not really a classic cluster headache, but "headachy" if that makes any sense. Sorta a mild tension type headache, kinda want to take an aspirin or two, but I'll tough it out.  

Prior to dosing I'd seen someone's (Flash ?) suggestion to "work up a sweat" the day after. I did that. Didn't hurt but didn't seem to help either. Early this morning I was really thirsty and chugged a lot of water/Gatorade. Early-on my stomach was a little queasy - but now after lunch it's okay.

A friend who has a history of doing strange things back in the 60's says  I'm in the "guilt phase." Right now I say never again, but in a few days when/if the headache comes back, I'll say, "Well, maybe."  Right now I don't buy that.

I'll try to leave feedback here as long as it seems relevant.

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 16th, 2005, 1:38pm
Squanto, thanks for your reply.
Well, if you had never touched any psychedelics before, yep, 2gr could be a heavy load for you.
From the description you gave "I began to see very pretty color changes to the paintings we have on our living room walls", it seems to me that you were doing good but suddenly realized that "Hey, this ain't exactly normal".
It's important to stay calm, enjoy whatever is happening, listen to some soothing music and lay down. Sweating is actually very frequent. The problem is, if you begin to panick, things can go wrong... anxiety, paranoia, etc...

If you consider redosing, please read about LSA!
Hawaiian Baby woodrose
Morning glory seeds
or Rivea Corymbosa

It's very effective and some members here had very good success with it, including myself.
Again, without the visuals, nausea, sweating, etc...

I do not doubt that you're a young 70 y.o! ;;D
Otherwise you wouldn't have tried the alternative treatment!

Hence the "Balls Of The Year" award you got from Mr. Happy!

Let us know how you're doing. So far, what you're describing is perfectly normal. Go ahead and take aspirin, if that works for you.

Take care,
Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Redd715 on Oct 16th, 2005, 1:49pm
I can relate to some information that may help in the next coming few days.

There are some folks who will get hit just post dose (6-8 hours), and then the hits taper quickly over the next 2-3 days and they remain PF for a period of time, while still others do not get hit again untill day 2 or 3 after dosing and then they taper off to PF time.  Each person is different in this but this appears to be the two main patterns.  BobW (or someone else) will correct me if I'm wrong.  

If the hits come again in a few days please do not panic.  Give it a day or two and hit the 02 and see where it goes.  

On a positive note, I know of one sufferer who has taken the LSA seeds and has had no trippy effect at all, and has gone from his usual 3-4 hits per night every night to 1 hit every other night.  That is a dramatic improvement in my book.

Keep us posted please. [smiley=twocents.gif]


Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 16th, 2005, 5:47pm
rextangle wrote:
Well, if you had never touched any psychedelics before, yep, 2gr could be a heavy load for you.
From the description you gave "I began to see very pretty color changes to the paintings we have on our living room walls", it seems to me that you were doing good but suddenly realized that "Hey, this ain't exactly normal".
It's important to stay calm, enjoy whatever is happening, listen to some soothing music and lay down. Sweating is actually very frequent. The problem is, if you begin to panick, things can go wrong... anxiety, paranoia, etc...

Somebody reported getting the "giggles" with a low dose.  Well, I might have giggled once when the colors of the paintings started to change.  I was really trying to stay calm and intended to enjoy the ride.  Then bottom dropped out. At the height of the experience I was determined I was going keep track of any unusual visual things.  But with the sweats, twitch, inability to stay still and trying to convince my wife that she didn't have to call 9-1-1, I didn't see a damn thing worth writing home about.  I remember thinking, " I can't believe folks do this for fun!"

Right now I'm doing okay. A little tired, but I purposely skipped my afternoon nap Us "old folk" like to take naps you know. No headache.

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 16th, 2005, 6:31pm
Well, at least your head is still good. If you had try this... uh 50 years ago, you would probably had a better time.
I hope that you stay pain free so that even if your experience wasn't enjoyable, it'll pay off!
Stay in touch,
Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Sophie on Oct 16th, 2005, 10:27pm
Squanto
Sorry to hear about your "bad trip."
About a year ago I decided to try the shrooms. I sort of entered into to this blindly and did not have any help with the ordering of spores. So I made my best guess, which turned out to be a Mexican strain. When I finaly was ready to harvest, I was lucky enough to find Cluster Busters and some good advice. I am close to your age, and also have had no previous experiance. My first cup of tea was 1.5g and I was mildly uncomfortable for about 30 minutes. Then I relaxed and enjoyed the next couple hours but no real "tripping."
Five days later I uped the dose to 2g. I was very uncomtable and didn't care for the effects. So, I guess what I'm saying is don't give up---just keep your doses at 1g dried----tea is supposed to keep the nausea at the minium. I keep my doses at 1.5 or less.  I started this last spring at the beginning of a cycle. And it took 4 doses---plus a few sputs to put a stop to the cycle.
I have experimented with the seeds to knock shadows.
I am very sensitive to them also. I use less than what is suggested----except for one mistake when I over did that.
I haven't been at this very long, but this summer/fall has been the best in years.
I understand that there are less trippy shrooms, and everyone should do whats best for them. We don't always get it right the first time---but I know the results make up for our efforts.
Age---who knows? Paranoia--maybe? Experiance---probalby helps.
Good luck---maybe that last dose did the trick--and that's what counts.   Sophie ;)

                             

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 17th, 2005, 2:14pm
I'm now 48 hours "post-dose."

When I awakened this morning I was pain free. Yaaay! But within an hour slowly developed a dull pain behind left eye and on left side of head. Booo! Maybe a KIP one and half.  Has persisted most of the day.  A little grumpy today - but that may be normal for me. :)

No real "hits" yet (thank God!) Last night I had a series of what I'd call "mini-flashes."  Sharp sudden pain in the left eye. Lasting only seconces and maybe a minute apart. Went on for about 10 minutes and then went away.  Hasn't come back.

And so it goes

Squanto
[b][/b]

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 17th, 2005, 3:58pm
Thanks for the update Squanto!
I suggest you use 02 as soon as you feel any discomfort.
It seems to me that you have them under control. Now, make sure they stay like that and do everything you can to prevent the attacks from ramping up.
Keep us updated.
Thanks and good luck to you
Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 17th, 2005, 5:14pm
Agree with Rex.......looks like you're getting a positive response.

Wishing you continued PF time,
Bob

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 18th, 2005, 3:59pm
It is now 3 days post-dose

I really didn't (don't) intend to report my progress every day but today was a little different and I thought I'd write it down before my "old-timers" memory made me forget.

Awakened this morning (about 2 hours later than my usual wake-up) with just a slight shadow. Nothing significant compared with other mornings. Then about 11 AM (one of my "usual" times) I got hit pretty hard. Kip 5 or so.

I used nasal lidocaine and got almost immediate relief. Which is good, but different. Usually the lidocaine just knocks the edge off and moves the pain further back in my head.  This time the pain was gone!  Hmmm !?!

Then about two hours later the dull ache came back.  But just a Kip 2 or so.

So I suppose the clusterbusters treatment has made some sort of  difference.

I went back a re-read the Erowid and ClusterBusters info.  As far as I can tell, except for the first hour after the tea,  all I had was side effects.  All the descriptions of level 2 and above just don't fit my experience. Different strokes for different folks, huh?

And so it goes.
Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is read
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 18th, 2005, 4:14pm

on 10/18/05 at 15:59:32, Squanto wrote:
It is now 3 days post-dose

I really didn't (don't) intend to report my progress every day but today was a little different and I thought I'd write it down before my "old-timers" memory made me forget.



Your sharing of your experience may help others whom are not getting relief with the treatment they're presently on. Keep sharing please. That's how I decided to try this treatment and it ended up being the most responsive and effective for my CH.

And it appears you are continuing to benefit......glad for you.

PFDANs to ya!
Bob

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 18th, 2005, 4:27pm
Yes Squanto, as Bob said it "Keep sharing please. That's how I decided to try this treatment and it ended up being the most responsive and effective for my CH. " .

At the risk of repeating myself... USE 02 as often as possible to keep them where they're at...
Again, good luck and thanks for the update.
Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is read
Post by SteCo on Oct 18th, 2005, 6:14pm

on 10/18/05 at 16:27:46, rextangle wrote:
At the risk of repeating myself... USE 02 as often as possible to keep them where they're at...
Again, good luck and thanks for the update.


Ditto what the others have said...iffin' the o2 did not work in the past.....you may be very surprised now. An effective abort. for many folks. I am not sure if it is even possible, but the lidocaine may have given you a rebound ha today?  Better to play it safe with the O2.

Time for the "wait and see what happens" mode....with a little luck, the post activity will fade away....along with the memory of CH.

Don't give away the farm/accessories just yet!!...you may need/want it later. Now you know where you do not want to go again, dose size wise. The tea seems to add some "umphhhh" to the equation for sure. Prolly where the term kicka$$ came from.

Also, you may need the 2-3 Tanq. & Tonic size doses to help with current cycle too... you do know you are "comfortable" with that size and it seemed to help you....hope you do not tho!!!

Once you get out of cycle, smaller more manageable dosings (=2-3 T&T's-like you did before) buzz levels....called maintenance doses, taken periodically (prior to anticipated cycles, season changes-if this affects you) over the course of a year, may keep the beast locked up somewhere else instead of in your head.

Thanks for the updates!
All the best
SteCo

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Beastfodder on Oct 19th, 2005, 8:26am
Your post takes me back a few years - and the good news is you're on exactly the right lines, since it's all worked out for me (so far).

If  heat destroys the active ingredients - it's at temperatures over 100c. Have always and will always boil the psilocybin first. Get a stock by straining out the boiled mushrooms (5-10 minutes boiling should be enough).

If you've ever seen wild mushrooms dry out and the little maggots that live in them crawl out and die you'll know why it's best to strain and throw away residue.

Volume of liquid is down to how much you want to drink and assume all weights given via clusterbusters are for dried 'shrooms.   More than half a mug is a lot to drink.

It's a matter of taste but the stock is pretty poor tasting - and much more attractive with some acidity - lime or lemon juice - added.  (you could even make a meal of it - lemon grass, corriander etc).

An added bonus is that extra vitamin C helps keep the 'trip' in check.

Very best of luck to you  

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 21st, 2005, 7:09am
Well here I am on the 7th day after dosing (2nd time)

Shadows are there most of the day every day- i.e. just a dull pain in and behind my left eye. Occasionally, eye congestion and forehead sweats. Doesn't interfere with life style (if you can attribute any style to my life) but when things get quiet (like driving the car or trying to read) the ache is noticable.

Last evening about 7:30 while eating out with my wife, the pain swelled up to about a KIP 4.  When we came home (about 8:30) I decided to try a SPUT. Broke off a small chunk of dried cap - wasn't very big, I cant' think of a common item to compare it to. After hydration in my mouth it was about the size of half of green pea. (aint' THAT scientific!)

As Nani suggested I left it under my tongue and sorta "moved it around"  for about 30 minutes.  Taste wasn't bad, texture leaves somethng to be desired but not awful. Finally spit it out.

Effect(s)  ?
Nothing, nada, zip, no change in the pain. No side effects.

So maybe what I did was a TSaPIT?  Too Small a Piece Under the Tougue.

Over the next 2 hours the pain gradually receded to a level 2 or so.
(in spite of the jokes about it on another  thread) maybe a sub-division of the lower KIP scale levels would help.  Especially, when we get over-focused  on these things.) Went to bed and the last thing I recall before dropping off, "the ache's still there."

Anyway, woke up  this am (later than usual) and felt pain free for about an hour.  Then the ache in my eye returned. And now 2 hours later it persists.  Took a couple of Naprosyns an hour ago - no benefit yet.

I know this a lot of detail - I'm thinking this is the only way to keep a log of what has happened with my "alternate therapy."

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 21st, 2005, 8:51pm
Squanto, thanks for the update!

I hate to repeat myself, but I've suggested a few times that you use 02 as soon as you feel a twinge of a HA.

From my understanding the mushroom therapy will help tame the pain and how often the hits occur, but in order for this to work you need to be quick with the 02, hoping to keep things down as much as possible. 02 kills shadows great and abort nasty attacks if you get to it as quickly as possible.

If you do decide to redose, remember to use a small amount! Hope you kept that scale of yours!

Keep us posted and thank you again!
Be well,

Rex


Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 22nd, 2005, 6:48pm
BUMP...

Squanto, read my previous post.
Thanks,
Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 24th, 2005, 7:13pm
I'm just about 10 days post 2nd dose. I think things are better over-all compared to the weeks before my 1st dose.

It may be wishful thinking. I had so hoped that the clusterbuster treatment was going to stop the headached cold. Hasn't happened tho'. I suppose my expectations were to great.  But,  I'm really trying hard NOT to focus my life and daily activity on the headaches. I've been off Imitrex injections for over a month. 3 times since my last full dose of "alternate therapy" I've been hit hard enough to want an Trex injection.  All three times I've done SPUTs. I suspect I'm not doing the SPUT thing right. I'll start another topic and ask some questions about SPUT.

For example: I woke this morning at 4 AM with a KIP 4-5. I cut a chunk a little bigger than the last one and put it under my tongue. Within 15-20 minutes the pain was gone. I sucked and moved the chunk around for another 30 minutes and then spit it out. (I took a picture of the re-hydrated piece. If/when I figure out how to post an image in these messages, I'll let everyone see how big was. By then tho' we'll have moved on to other things.) Anyway, within a hour of spitting out the chunk the pain was back. Only a KIP 2-3 though.  A dull ache persisted all day - most noticable when I wasn't occupied.  

An aside to Rex:  I'm having a little trouble getting O2 set up.  I have a  540 regulator (Thanks Mr Happy) and a week ago I ordered a clustermasx mask but it hasn't been delivered yet.  There's only one supplier of welding oxygen in my town.  I made the mistake of telling the retailer what I was going to do with it. I guess I babbled the truth. He refused to sell/rent me a tank. Citing liability concerns.  I've asked my GP to send a scrip to the local medical gas folks.This week I'm going to see a welding supplier in a town 25 miles away and lie about what I'm going to do with the O2. Nothing is as easy as it oughta be. When I get all the durn pieces together I'll report the benefits of trying O2 again post-dose, if any.

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 24th, 2005, 7:26pm
Hey Squanto,

Thanks for the report. Well, I'm glad that your CH have weakened since your last dose! Great news.

And now I understand why you're not talking 02 much...
Yep, don't tell the welding supplier that you're gonna suck on that tank, they won't sell it to you, even though it's still 100% pure oxygen... just tell them you're picking it up for a buddy who's doing welding if they ask you anything.

I'm not exactly sure why you would want to post a pic of the "spitted and re-hydrated piece of mushroom"
I'm pretty sure most of us can figure it out without the visuals... :o... unless a member requests it!!! ;;D

Again, good to hear from you and looking forward to your next pictureless post.

Cheers,
Rex


Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 24th, 2005, 7:38pm
Rex wrote:
I'm not exactly sure why you would want to post a pic of the "spitted and re-hydrated piece of mushroom"

Well, I'm not trying to gross everybody out. The size of the piece(s) has been problematic for me. What's a "small piece?" How to describe the size of the piece that did or didn't work. I'm just not facile enough with words to come up with a description that conveys the actual size of the piece.

So, I'll stop fiddling with posting the image. I've got other things to do anyway. :-)

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 24th, 2005, 7:42pm
Ok, let's just compare it to a dime. Is the piece bigger or smaller? If I was you, I would stick with something smaller than a dime.
Also ingesting it may give you a bit of time release...

See, there's still no need for a pic! ;)

Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by thebbz on Oct 24th, 2005, 8:22pm
;;D Hope your allright. Hey dont give up so easy. That is the thing proper dosing is critical with any therapy.
Even as kids we didnt trip alone. There is a marked difference in potency of dried mushys vs fresh. The dried are more potent indeed. I hate to see you abandon a therapy that could work because of a misguided dose.
I'll take your left overs. LOL
Hope your PF. Hope I dont have these at 70 cause 46 is bad enough.
All the best
jb ;)

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 26th, 2005, 7:28am
Here's what I posted under my thread asking about SPUTs.

Awakened at 6:30 with a KIP 4.  I've got things to do today. I didn't want to take the chance this thng would go away on it's on -as it does sometimes. After a few minutes I tried a SPUT.

A little bigger chunk thiis time. After 20 minutes pain receded. Swallowed what was left with 1/2 glass of orange juice. Now (about 2 hours later) I'm "almost" pain  free. When I stop and look for the pain it's jut barely noticable. So for practicable and comparitive purposes - it's gone. No side effects. No gastric upset.

I now have a pretty good idea how big a chunk to put under my tongue. And what to do with it. (chew and swallow with orange juice) Haven't tried (or needed) the SPUT multiple times a day suggested by Pink Floyd. We'll see.

carpe diem! (or something like that)

Gonna order some LSA today. As things change - I'll re-post.

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 26th, 2005, 1:22pm
Good going Squanto, and glad to hear that you're improving.
Keep up the good work,
Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Oct 29th, 2005, 5:08am
Good News!  I've had the most pain free 48 hours I've had in well over a year!

When I got up Thursday morning I quickly ramped up from pain free to a KIP 3.  I cut a small piece (my usual size) and put in under my tongue,  played with it for about 30 minutes. By that time the pain was gone. I chewed up the residual chunck and swallowed it with orange juice. Remained pain free all day. After supper felt the start of another hit. Did another SPUT. Pain receded to just noticable. Again I chewed and swallowed what was left. Slept 6 hours. No problem.

Awakened Friday morning pain free and stayed that way all day ! ! !
Yaaay!

Drove to a neighboring town to buy a welding O2 cylinder. (I've screwed myself with the only welding supply dealer in my town) Paid $140 for a 80 cft cylinder (filled.)  I'd found a place, via eBay, where 80 cft tanks, new and empty, can be bought for about $145 with free shipping. So I figured the price was right. Came home and set up my rig. Clustermasx, 540 regulator, 2X size bag, and the welding O2.
Tested okay.  Ready for whatever comes.

Took a 90 minute nap. No pain on awakening. I'd quit the afternoon naps because of the hits I got afterward. Now I'll risk it 'cause I've got something to fight 'em with.

About bed-time (10 PM)  got a small hit. Cut a chunk and did a SPUT. Pain relieved within 20 minutes. Spit it out. Why? I dunno - just did.

Awakened a 4:30 AM Saturday with a KIP 3. Got up and turned on the O2. 15 minutes at 10 LPM.  Pain receded after about 5 minutes. Kept up theO2 for  full 15 minutes to keep the treatment standard. (Note to self: find something to do while sucking O2 - time really drags) About 45 minutes after O2 the pain has crepted back. No much - maybe KIP 2.

I reported my impressions of the Clustermasx under another topic  ("Clustermasx Review")

I think I'm now officially a "believer" in the clusterbuster Rx.
3 small hits in 48 hours is the best I've been since this damn thing started last year.
It ain't a cure. But I've gotten relief. That all I said I wanted.
Actually, I lied - I want a cure! But I'll settle.

Unless something radical happens (good or bad.)  I'll  shut up and let this thread die.

Thanks for all your support, suggestions and good will.

Squanto (a.k.a. Gene)  

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 29th, 2005, 5:25am
Hi Squanto,
Looks like you're finding the combination/amount that works best for you and don't be surprised if your PF periods start extending to longer durations. Appears you're responding very well to the treatment and glad to see the O2 is working for you. Glad to see this is happening for you.

Hope you rethink about letting the thread die.......lot of sufferers are following this thread and I'm sure your experience is providing insight to others for how they may find relief.

Here's to wishing you extended PF times!
Bob

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Oct 30th, 2005, 2:02pm
Hello Gene,

This is great news! I'm glad that this is working so well for you. Keep us posted!
And I agree with what Bob (Chillrmn1) said.

DON'T LET THE THREAD DIE...
Even if you only post once a week to say "Still PF"... you have no idea how important that is to a lot of us!!!

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Enjoy the relief!!!!!

Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Nov 12th, 2005, 7:19pm
Some folks said I shouldn't let this thread die. Things have changed a little (details follow) so I'll sorta wrap this up and move on.

It's been 33 days since my first shroom dose and 28 days since my second dose which had decidedly unpleasant side effects.

I'm pretty sure that over-all I'm doing better than I was before the first dose. I tried keeping a diary, but I began to feel like I was paying too much attention to the Beast. So, I let that slide. I still have nearly daily left-sided headaches (centered in the left eye) Ranging from KIP2 to KIP 4. No more KIP 5's and above. The autonomic symptoms (sweaty foreheard, droopy eyelid and nasal congestion) are rarely present now. There are some pain free (nearly) days. I appreciate those!

I've used high-flow (10+LPM) O2 via a ClusterMasx for up to 20 minutes.  Usually my pain is better, but not always gone, after 5-10 minutes on the O2. I try to stay on the O2 for at least 5 minutes after I notice a change in the pain.  It's not uncommon for the pain to recurr within an hour or two after the O2.

I done SPUTS (small piece of dried shroom under the tongue) when the  pain spikes up to a KIP 3 or 4 and I got something to do that I don't want the headache to come back in the middle of. Usually, the pain goes away within (not more than) 30 minutes of putting the piece in my mouth. The pain usually stays away until the next day or so. No trippy effects with the small piece.

I've never had the O2 or SPUT fail to give my some relief. Not always complete relief but enough to notice and consider the treatment was worth doing.

It seems to me that now that I've getting some relief I'm impatient to get over the whole damn thing. It seems I'm just reacting to the headache(s) and none of what I've tried to date has been preventative (sp?)

I've obtained some Hawaiin Baby Woodrose seeds and I'm going to move on to that.  I'll start another thread about that - 'cause as it happens, I've got questions.

Thanks for everyone's support, suggestions and help.

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by rextangle on Nov 12th, 2005, 7:26pm
Hi Gene,

And good to hear from you. I was thinking about asking you for an update, but you've beat me to it.
It looks like you've definitely made some progress and have some good tools on your side!

Since you're gonna try the LSA seeds, start with 3 of them.
I suggest that you crush them first and let them soak in water for 2 hours. I've put them in a coffee grinder before and mixed the powder with water.

Drink up and forget about the nasty and bitter taste!
It's like old pond water!

Feel free to PM me with any questions, or you can just post too.

Please continue that thread, it's always good to hear from you,

Rex

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Nov 20th, 2005, 9:54am
Since this thread is about my experience with the shrooms:

It's of note that my AmazingNature grow kit is still sprouting almost 60 days after I started it.  Not as many as the first couple of "flushes," but two's and threes keep popping up. Nice healthy buggers.  Every few days I just squirt the cake with some water I've boiled. I've gotten my money's worth out this kit.

I've saved some of the spores (those that fell into the water that's hydrating the kit) in some sterile hypodermic syringes. Don't know what I'm going to do with them.  Just seemed a shame to let them go to waste.

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Dec 10th, 2005, 10:38am
Well, the facts are in - I lied. For sure I lied to myself.

After my bad trip (experience)I said I wasn't going to "dose" with the shrooms again. Ever!  

Well, I got really tired of the KIP 4's that lasted all day except when I could get some temporary relief with 100% O2.  

I tried the RC seeds route. I guess the gaelic word for the seeds I bought is, "duff."  If that means "didn't do enough" I figure that's right.  It's been 5 days since my last attempt for 20 seeds to do anything. It hasn't been a pleasant week.

This morning I awoke with a KIP 4 and said, "Today's the day."
I weighed out 0.75 grams (zero point seven five)  of dried product, ground it up for 1/2 cup of tea and downed it. (Used Pinkyshark's receipe but didn't let it steep very long nor did I squeeze the juice out of the dregs. Threw the crud out.)

Got comfortable on the couch, turned the lights up, put a Tangerine  Dream tape( Underwater Sunlight) in the music box, and put my dog's head in my lap. Thirty minutes later I was feeling a little anxious (more like scared) that maybe 0.75 gram was too much. I was nauseated, burping and feeling the first stages of a being drunk. But I was reassured because the headache was gone. So I tried think pleasant thoughts and to relax.

Lots of visual symptoms. Nothing scary or unpleasant. I think the music and bright light really helped. (Aside: there are sections of that Tangerine Dream tape that have always conjured up memories of scuba diving. Not this time. Brought up memories of train trips I've made.) At about an hour and a half I had about 20 minutes of a strong shadow. I thought, "Oh shit, I don't want to get hit in the middle of this dose." But thankfully, the shadow faded. As did most of the stomach effects (I wonder if Beano would help the burps and nausea?) I enjoyed the rest of the trip. (a little past level 2 I'd guess)

Another aside: There's a 4 x 4 ft painting that's been on our living room wall off and on going on 35 years. It's my wife's impressionist rendition of the California coastline as seen from La Jolla cove.  I'll never look at that image the same way again. There are things in there that my wife never knew she put there.

At 4 hours, I'm  still feeling a little "drunk"  and befuddled (more than usual) but no stomach or visual effects. Had a light breakfast (no fat) and gonna chill out the rest of the day. I'm pain free. Here's hoping I stay that way. If not, I've O2 to fall back on.

Maybe I've graduated to the clusterbusters board.
And so it goes...
Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Flash on Dec 10th, 2005, 11:35pm
Nice one Squanto!  Perhaps next time try just 1/2 a gram cos it sounds you got a little higher than intended.  But the good news is that you handled it.  It's normal to feel a little apprhensive just as things start to kick in.  I get that every time.  There are 6 cures for it that I know of:

1) Sex.  This works every time.

2) A herb called skullcap.  Someone else will be along shortly with info on this I'm sure.

3) Booze.  I usually have a few shots of malt whisky beforehand to make me feel invincible.  For a maintenance dose this works just great.  During an episode or whilst chronic it is of course likely to trigger an attack, but in my experience the shrooms always deal that so no problem.  However probably best
not tempt fate at this stage...

4) Doing anythign engrossing like playing a computer game, going on an online chat room, or writing a letter.

5) Rent and watch a good movie.  One you haven't seen before.

6) Very important.  do not chug down the shroom juice in one go.  Sip it over a period of 10 mins.  No longer than 15 mins though!  This just smoothes out the onset.  It is especially important for higher doses because going from baseline to level 3 very quickly can be quite disconcerting LOL!

To get rid of gastro intestinal discomfort, then the usual advice is no make sure you do not injest the shroom flesh only the juice (which it sounds like you did) and to dose on an empty stomach.  You get used to the tummy thing after a couple of goes though.

I hope this advice helps, and I hope you get some good solid PF time.


Flash

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Dec 17th, 2005, 2:10pm
Thanks Flash for the tips.

It's been a week since my 0.75 gm dose. The headache pain started creeping up 3 days ago. I knocked it down with one SPUT. And tried ginger powder without benefit. It's been more than 24 hours since the ginger and 3 days since the SPUT. Couldn't find any skullcap in the herbal stores I looked in locally, so I will save that for another time.

Awakened this a.m. with a KIP 4-5. Made up some tea with 0.5 gm of dried product. Made it using PinkySharkMark's receipe. As Flash suggested I stretched out drinking the tea over a 10 minute period.

Still had a little anxiety after about 30 minutes. Not as intense as the previoius dose.  Passed quickly.  Not as much burping, more yawning, and it seemed to me, more muscle twitches. At 40 minutes I was pain free. The visual effects were not as vivid as before - but still there. Not a bad experience at all.  Used different music this time (The Chieftians & The Eagles)  Confirmed the "set and setting" advice. I felt more in control this time- except when I closed my eyes I was flooded with memories (not bad ones) that hadn't crossed my mind in years and memories that if I had a list to pick from, I would never have picked to dwell on.

The sex idea has merit. Too bad my wife was off doing volunteer work this morning. Nothing else came up. I loaded a movie in the DVD player but never started it.  I doubt that I could write letters or play games "under the influence."  The suggestion to sing out loud was LOL for me. The neighbors would think somebody was getting killed over here and my dog probably would have bite me!

The clock seemed to stop. The tracks of the music CD seemed to last forever. By 2 hours aftering starting to drink the tea all the effects, except for some "stomach awareness", seemed to have passed.  

Its now 6 hours post dose. I'd guage my experience as a solid level 2. I've got a little tension type headache now  but otherwise feel okay.

I really really would like to enter a PF period of days or even weeks. It is a lot to hope for, but I can wish can't I?

Thanks for all the support.
And so it goes...

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is read
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 17th, 2005, 4:33pm

on 12/17/05 at 14:10:33, Squanto wrote:
I really really would like to enter a PF period of days or even weeks. It is a lot to hope for, but I can wish can't I?
Squanto


it's as good a time of year as any to make such wishes.

I would suggest:
1. If you haven't already, read our info on Ginger in the Mushroom FAQ (detox section). It may give you some different ideas on it's use for shadows etc.

2. Tell your wife that charity begins at home next time!!

3. I wouldn't go over this size dose. It should be more than enough or maybe even too much. I'd back off a little more next time, maybe .4g - .45g
This is a level that some of us need to acheive but in most cases, less is more.

4. Good choice on the music. Find some Chieftains with Van Morrison...very good stuff.
With the mention of the Chieftains, I searched out my favorite Irish band, the Saw Doctors, to see if they were coming to the US soon, and found out their new album is called.....The Cure ;-)

Best of luck and thanks for all the great reports.
Bobw



Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is read
Post by Flash on Dec 18th, 2005, 9:49am
Squanto,

Just to recap - what type of shrooms are you using? Also check the description matches what they actually look like. Either:

A) You have strong shrooms.

OR

B) You are very sensitive to hallucinogenics! Others considering this treatment should take the latter into account - this is why it is recommended for people to start with a LOW dose.

I agree with Bob, that you probably should not exceed this dose, and probably reduce it. My recommendation would be to half it and see what happens.

Glad it all went well though. Here's hoping you get the right result. For many people a Level 2 dose produces the optimum busting effects.

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by Squanto on Dec 20th, 2005, 7:29am
1) The mushrooms are Stropharia cubensis, which I've read is the European name for Psilocybin cubensis.  Home grown with a "grow kit" from Amazing Nature (in the Netherlands)

2) I agree that I may be more sensitive than the average bear. My age? The shroom strain? My genetics?  My set? Sumthin' else? I dunno. Now that I'lve got the range - I'll fire for effect. I'll just factor in my personal idiosyncroniciity as I go.

The good news is after about 48 hours of headaches (up to about KIP 4) I've been pain free for about 36 hours.  I credit the last dose.

The bad news (for me) is I'm going out of the country for about 10 days.  If the headaches return, I'll have to depend on NSAIDs and nasal
Lidocaine.  

Hope everyone has a pain free holiday. I'll chack in next year.  :-)

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by Squanto on Dec 31st, 2005, 7:41am
Squanto's back in town.

It's been two weeks (14 days ! ) since my last 0.5 gm dose of shrooms.

I've had more pain free days in the past two weeks than in the past 16 months! (or it seems like it)  I'm still getting some minor hits but they don't last long enough nor are they severe enough to really complain about.

I've been away from home for the 2 weeks, so I didn't have O2 or SPUTS to fall back on. I took a vial of Imitrex but didn't use it. I had my nasal Lidocaine but didn't use it. Hot showers and Naprosyn eased me over the rough spots.

The trip revealed a couple of things. (Maybe I should say "journey" because in  the context of this thread   "trip" has other connotations.)

(1) I've got a friend who kept insisting that since my headaches began after I got my dog and that "undoubtedly" my headaches are the result of an allergy to dog dander.  I gave up arguing with her about it long time ago. Besides - Gus the dog is here to stay. On the trip, the first real hit a week into the trip was almost welcome. Proved to me that the dog's not to blame.
(2) the rhythm of my (and other folks) headaches are source of fascination for me.  When I get hit, I can tell the time of day without looking at a clock. It's going to be within a few minutes of 5 AM, 11 AM, 5 PM or 11 PM.  It's been like that since the first hit. The varioius meds have smeared that a lttle but the rhythm is still evident. On my recent trip we were 4 time zones away from home (actually on the Azores out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean)  The pain or silent hits were still at 5, 11, 5, or 11 o'clock local time. This strikes me as weird. My sleep pattern seemed to be stuck on "home time" but my pineal gland (?) had adjusted to local time. Daylight, sunshine, night time effects? I dunno.
(3) I don't need the headaches to be grumpy. Portuguese drivers fill that bill nicely.
(4) In my search for personal triggers I haven't been very successful. On this trip I can say without a doubt that a nap is a 100% trigger for me. Wine, chocolate, getting cold, gettng hot, cheese(s), Chinese food, the list goes on - none caused a hit. But "the nap" is my enemy.  Durn! And I deserve one ever now and then!

Since I'm not totally pain - silent hit free I'm considering another 0.5 gm dose. I'm really pleased with the progress I've made.  But, we always want "more" don't we?

Happy PF New Yeat to everyone.

Squanto

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
Post by pattik on Dec 31st, 2005, 9:21am
Squanto, Welcome back, and your results sound very encouraging.  From my own experience 18 months ago, the end of a vacation triggered an unusual summer episode for me.  Some people find that when a source of stress winds down, then that's the time to be on your toes about a new episode.  Stress might actually keep the beast away, at least for a while.  I'm really glad to hear you have been doing so well--may it continue.
Pat

Title: Re: My "alternate therapy" is ready to
Post by MJ on Dec 31st, 2005, 10:38am

              "we always want "more" don't we?"
               Boy thats the truth.

Welcome home Squanto.

Glad it went well for you these past weeks. Keep the faith. Keep the dog.  Happy New Year

MJ



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