I am wondering about the experiences our veterans here on the board have with the VA medical system.

I have DPOA for a vet. I have to deal with the VA regularly, more like fighting with them.

This vet was having very bad headaches and the doctor sent him to a cardiologist 210 miles away (nearest VA hospital) to check it out. He said a phone call to him from the doc would have filled her in, basically, nothing cardio-related would be causing these headaches.

As the head pain worsened and other symptoms started, such as confusion and a couple of other ones, (I was thinking stroke) I had to call his doctor, and get authorized to go to the ER. I was informed that if I went to the local ER here, they would not pay for the medical care received (I call that being held hostage). She, the doc, said I would have to drive 30 miles to her office for an exam, and then maybe she would authorize a visit to the ER.

We got there, and she saw us after waiting 10 minutes. After a cursory exam, she authorized us to go to a hospital there in town.  We went up front, and waited for 15 minutes while a person got the paperwork, which consisted of printing off a form, and signing it. This person had to complete a couple of other tasks first... call 2 people back about their next appt. date.  ::)

I was pretty livid. We got to the ER, and they got him in and examined right away, and sent off for a CT scan. Everything came back normal, thank goodness.

When you need to go to the ER after hours, they say if it is life threatening, you should go, but you need to call the VA. Well, another trip, unrelated, was required - after hours. It was serious. I called the VA 8 times and got a busy signal. Called the after hours duty nurse, got busy signals there too. Went to the ER, was treated, and told this vet could transfer to the hospital 210 miles away, for overnight observation. The ER doc allowed me to monitor him at home with some home medical equip.

One thing I've noticed is the VA tends to deny existence of medical conditions, therefore denying treatment. The way they dispense medicine, through the mail, or via FEDEX overnight, depending, could be much better. My vet has run out of meds, even though the refills were called in a week in advance, and they wouldn't be shipped, causing more medical problems.

One new doc sent him for xrays to see the cause of pain he has, and has had for years. Said the radiologist didn't see a single thing on the x-rays that would require pain medicine, and totally cut him off one, and cut back on the other by 3/4. Didn't bother to read the results of other types of x-rays, and the radiologist reports, and previous doctors reports that spanned years, basically did not read the medical file. Did not order any MRI's, or other tests, didn't send him to a specialist.

Getting in to see a specialist is next to impossible. They won't get him in to see an orthopedic surgeon, nor a neurologist, nor any other specialist required, and his health has suffered for it.

Cat, I know you had some problems. Has anyone else here who is a veteran, and relies on the VA for medical care had issues getting the right treatment? I swear, if I wasn't there to advocate, this vet would probably be buried by now. This vet is from the vietnam war era, and a lot of other viet vets have complained about the lack of medical care and been ignored. Now that the vets from the first gulf war have been in the system, and the more recent second gulf war vets are coming back, they've been complaining too. Looks like since these more recent vets are raising hell, they are being listened to. I guess they finally realized the vietnam vets aren't full of crap after all.  >:(

Of course, it didn't help that Clinton cut back on the $ going to the VA, and Bush cut it even more. Is this any way to treat our veterans, who have risked their lives defending out country?

But the thing that kills me is that if you call to get the ok to go to the ER, they tell you to go, but they hang it over your head that they may not pay for it. Sure, if it's life threatening, go, but we might now pay. However, if you drive several hundred miles, then we will see you, and pay for it. "Well, I think I'm having a heart attack, but maybe it's not... my chest hurts and I can't breathe. But if I go to the ER, they may not pay for it if I rack up several thousands of $ in medical bills. However, I can drive a few hours to the nearest hospital, and get treated, but I may die on the way."

I apologize for the rant, but I really am interested in your experiences. And if and how you managed to get the proper medical care without jumping through several hoops. How are you being treated by the VA?

Thanks.

This sort of BULLSHIT is DISGUSTING, INFURIATING, AND TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR!!!

Yet this is all that I hear about when dealing with those assholes!  It is fine to send our fine HEALTHY young men and women into places that totally fuck up their bodies and minds, but then, once they are out, and have to some how live the rest of their lives, the government (that sent them to their damage, in the first place) just wipe their hands of it, except for some piddling, token type care !!!

When is Uncle Sam going to start taking responsibilities for problems that Uncle Sam caused?

I get so furious and pissed at this.  I keep thanking my lucky stars that I don't have to rely on those idiots!

Chuck

Take a deep breath....  Dealing with the VA takes a lot of patients and persistence... but it can be done. I've been doing it for years with good results... (after a fashion). Got a Senator involved with my husband - after she got involved, he got excellent treatment  - one letter was all it took. Might try that one for "fast" results.

Right now I'm working with a Viet Nam vet who's been trying to get help since 2001. His daughter (old friends of mine) finally called and asked if I'd help him. I took him to ER in Jan with an infection, back pain and a rash and severe depression. He sat there and looked pitiful and I DID THE TALKING. The doc asked me who I was and I told her, "Your worst nightmare!"

Before we left, we had consults with Neuro, Psych, primary, Dematitus, and MRI scheduled and he was out of pain and we had scripts for antibiotics and the rash was gone (shot of steriods did that).

Since then we've been screned for Agent Orange and filed for Disability thru the DAV (good source for help). Patient Advocate is a good place to go if the docs aren't doing what you think they should be doing (we've filed a complaint on a psychiatrist and got one who is a lot better -- the first one we pulled was the psyche from hell - all she wanted to do was accuse him of being a drug attict - he wasn't and the drug screen came out neg -he wasn't even taking asprin).

But you have to be assertative and you have to "demand" that something be done. The docs there don't know what's wrong and you have to TELL them and pretty much tell them what you want done. If you pull one you can't work with - get another one.

As for the meds -- below is a link for ordering them. Go to this site and order them early. They'll mail them when they're due, but you don't have to remember to call. All the vet's meds will be listed here. Just check the boxes and they'll be mailed automatically.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Hope this helps a little. Remember PATIENCE... you're dealing with the government....

Hugs BD

BarbaraD wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 7:36am:

Take a deep breath....  Dealing with the VA takes a lot of patients and persistence... but it can be done.

I have to agree with Barbara.  I advocated for my dad with the VA during the last years of his life.  It helped that he lived very close to the VA (it was ME that had the long drive).

Thorough notes with doctor's names and extensions (and pager numbers), and follow up, follow up follow up helped me get dad the best care possible.  Dad was hard of hearing so we made the doctors speak loudly and often repeat things so he could hear, and I could write them down.

When dad died at home the VA on-call physician wouldn't pronounce him, so I called his cardiologist's pager and he called right back and pronounced dad at that moment.

Bureaucracy can be hard to navigate but it CAN be done.  But it won't be easy.

Best of luck and bless you for taking on this important responsibility.

Document everything and I mean EVERYTHING, get a copy of the records from the doc that said no to the ER and have a copy of his file made.  Call the VA hotline, I'll have to look up the number, and then, when all else ends up with a big fat zero - CALL THE IG AT THE PENTAGON!  Gimme a min. I"ll get his number.

Now, I'm a Canadian, I married a member of the USAF and I take GREAT pride in my husband and his career.  But (the ever present but.... welcome to Canadian health care in ONtario - at least that's how it is in southwestern Ontario - that is of course if you can get a doctor!)  So, anyone who wants to vote for nationalized health care, go spend some time seeing what it gets you.

I'll get those numbers and the forms you need to fill out to file with the IG PD.

Cat


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Quote:

Office of the Deputy Inspector General for Policy and Oversight Policy and Programs Directorate Frank Albright, Director The Policy and Programs Directorate reviews individual investigations, usually in response to complaints directed at the DoD or Members of Congress; issues department-wide policies affecting the Department's law enforcement and investigative activities; performs management reviews of Defense Agency IG investigative functions; and performs other special projects. Additionally, the Directorate administers the DoD Fraud Voluntary Disclosure Program and the IG DoD Subpoena Program.

This will get you started - you can search the site for the numbers and find the info needed to address the deplorable conditions of the VA.


I will dig out the letter I got from the IG at the pentagon as soon as I can get to the dresser it's all stored in ready for packing :-/

Cat

Addendum:

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Quote:

Public Corruption Public Corruption is the breach of public trust by elected or appointed U.S. Government Officials who ask, demand, solicit, seek, accept, receive, or agree to receive anything of value in return for preferred treatment. One major area of public corruption: Health Care Fraud. DCIS conducts significant investigations involving TRICARE, a managed healthcare insurance program administered by the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs), that provides health care to active duty, retired military personnel and their family members.

This should help lead you to the right direction at least.

Cat

Geez here I go again, being a pain in my hubby's backside hehehehe.

I went to the VA hospital once, non ch related, after I got out of the Army.  Was treated great, and they took great care of me.  

Thomas, you raise a FANTASTIC point, not all VA centers are bad.  The main source of the problem with the smaller VA hospitals is funding.  Personally, I've found the best way to get funding and attention to the problem is to go through the VA Inspector General.  YMMV.  Many of the docs there are now civilian (at least in the larger ones).  Matt's dad was a terrible tragedy of a VA hospital.

Since only the vets are allowed to gain care from the VA hospitals, it makes it doubly difficult to get change to take place - unless someone like John McCain goes for treatment.....(I'll shut up about that).  As advocates we can only follow protocol and chain of command and make as much loud noise as possible.

It's a sad state of affairs when this country says they support their troops as long as they are in the line of fire, (read that as the politicians) but woe be tied he who makes waves when they aren't in combat (I've suffered it).

On the VERY GOOD news side of things, there is an entire new facility being built for the express reason of treating our troops with PTSD.  


Every vet should have someone behind them who can make sure they get the care they need.

Ok, shutting up again......

Glad you did well Thomas.

Cat

Yeah the VA hospital here is adjoined to the UW hospital which is a pretty awesome facility.  I think that has a lot to do with it.  

That is awesome Thomas!  It will be interesting to see the state of affairs for our vets once the changing of guard occurs in Nov. (Jan.) - they are moving in the right direction, the question is, will it be fast enough.....

What I wouldn't give to have Paco's input on this topic...

Cat

Like Thomas, I only used the VA Hospital to have a couple of wisdom teeth removed soon after I got out of the service.  The doc was great!  He'd shoot me with novacaine to numb the area, then strap in the nitrous nose cone.  His words, "now we're going to make your brain as numb as your mouth is.  If you want to go higher, just give me the thumbs up and I'll crank it up till you're where you want to be".

Used CalVet for a homw loan which also went smoothly.

I volunteered for the Service.  I knew what the job may entail.  I don't think the military nor the Government owe me a thing.  I'm thankful for the free dental care, low interest home loan and Gi Bill for school but I would have joined even if those didn't exist.

I have no complaints.

For nine years after Ted got out of the Marine Corps he had no health insurance.  He went to the local VA hospital (probably the same one Thomas went to) and saw a general dr for whatever was needed and even got a referal to a podiatrist and got fitted for arch supports.  He got good care there and the drs were nice.

One thing -- when you go in to see the doc -- Be specific with your complaints... my hubby and now James have a bad habit of -- when the doc asks, "How have you been doing?" of saying, "Oh pretty good."   That's when I chime in and say, "Oh NO he's NOT!!! He's doing this and this and that etc....."  Remember the doc is only going to treat what you tell him/her is wrong. If you can't remember what's wrong write it down before you go in.....

Another thing with the VA -- you're going to get the kind of care you expect and demand. If you don't like your doc - change docs -- go to patient advocate and tell them you're not happy and want to change docs - there's a little paperwork, but you can change until you get one you can work with.

My husband got excellent care at the VA. And my friend James is getting very good care there at this time. But I ask questions and keep asking until I get answers.

Hugs BD

BarbaraD wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 12:54pm:

Another thing with the VA -- you're going to get the kind of care you expect and demand. If you don't like your doc - change docs -- go to patient advocate and tell them you're not happy and want to change docs - there's a little paperwork, but you can change until you get one you can work with. Hugs BD

And that there is the quote of the day!  Whether you are VA or active duty, there is a patient advocate available and you CAN use them and make damn sure you let them know what you think.  They WILL work for you.  They've worked for me.  Hell they even helped me get the Offutt Hospital shut down - they lost their accreditation because they tried to kill me.

When all else fails, USE YOUR PATIENT ADVOCATE!!!!

Cat

Barb, I appreciate the advice. I do accompany this vet to his doc appt's when I need to. Right after this new doc decided he was not in pain (what an ass hole), we got a new doc, and saw her imediately. I explained to her just exactly what was what, and we got his pain meds reinstated. Yes, I have been very insistent with her, and will not take any excuses.

The funny thing is there is a pain management doc who saw him several times, and can't understand how he can even function in all the pain he has, let alone live. So, now we have that fixed.

We use myhealthevet.com to order refills, but it takes forever to get them mailed, and they are only coming from 40 miles away. They've screwed up not filling the pain meds, and I've had to drive the 4o miles to get them, to keep him from going into withdrawal.

And of course, if the vet shows any dissatisfaction with his treatment, off he goes to see psych. He was accused of being a drug addict, when he had just gotten out of the hospital, and had had several IV's, and bruised up his arm. Once again, no look into the fucking chart laying on the desk in front of her.

We have a follow up visit with his primary doctor July 1st, which I have to go to, so I can explain the ER visit, and EXPLAIN to her, in medical terms, what the problem was, and how it was resolved. This woman remembers me from the first time I was there, and she knows I mean business.

Cat, thank you so much for the info, I'll print it off. I don't know if I need to go that far yet, but another screw up, and a well placed suggestion of what I will do will help, I'm sure.

Bob, you are lucky to get dental care. My vet doesn't. And needs major work desperately, but is on a fixed income from the... you guessed it... VA. He needs new glasses, they'll examine his eyes, but that's it.

I know Matt was pursuing legal action against the VA for his father. I am on the verge.

The thing that frustrates me is that he has chronic conditions and every time he sees a new doc, they never read the damn chart, they just ask. And so I tell them what, when and how long. He is very good at hiding pain, it's a habit, so if they can't see that look in his eyes, like I can, or they choose to ignore the obvious, they think nothing is wrong, without reading the damn chart first. Or they put him through extremely painful movements to see how far he can move, then wonder why he can't get up. Or why he is almost falling down. So I go.

It's just that I wonder if any other vets are dealt with like this. With him, it's not just a trip to get one thing treated, this is an ongoing medical problem(s) that need to have a knowledgeable doc that has a memory.

Or maybe the docs just don't get paid enough to give a rats patootie.

But thanks to everyone who posted. Please, if anyone else has something to add, please do so.

purpleydog wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:06pm:

I've had to drive the 4o miles to get them, to keep him from going into withdrawal. And of course, if the vet shows any dissatisfaction with his treatment, off he goes to see psych. He was accused of being a drug addict,

I know this quote is taken out of context, but when you see red flags.....ya know?

Hope you get the help you need for your friend!

wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:20pm:

purpleydog wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 9:06pm: I've had to drive the 4o miles to get them, to keep him from going into withdrawal. And of course, if the vet shows any dissatisfaction with his treatment, off he goes to see psych. He was accused of being a drug addict, I know this quote is taken out of context, but when you see red flags.....ya know? Hope you get the help you need for your friend!

I don't see any red flags, jonny, what do you mean by
Quote:

ya know?

? I don't have a clue. But I don't think you have a clue either.

Why don't you get back to me after you have fought two tours in a war, been shot a few times,  and then PERSONALLY have to deal with the aftermath for the next 35 plus years.

Still don't have a clue? I didn't think so. Oh, that's right, you refuse to answer questions about your lack of military service.