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Message started by deltadarlin on Jun 26th, 2008 at 9:11am

Title: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 26th, 2008 at 9:11am
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Judge Alito was downright hostile about the vote.  What can be more heinous than raping a child (btw, don't know how it is in other states, but in LA, the child must be 12 or under for the death penalty to be put on the table).

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by BarbaraD on Jun 26th, 2008 at 3:35pm
I'm with you Carolyn.... I think this was the WRONG decision.... but maybe the death penalty is too EASY on the jerks! Put 'em in general population and let the other inmates take care of them.... maybe that might me more "fitting punishment" after all.  Just don't let 'em out till they're good and DEAD!!!

Hugs BD

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Brew on Jun 26th, 2008 at 3:46pm
And I love 'em for upholding the 2nd Amendment this morning.

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Charlie on Jun 26th, 2008 at 7:27pm
I have to say that I agree with Brew anyway.

Charlie

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Brew on Jun 26th, 2008 at 7:30pm

Charlie wrote on Jun 26th, 2008 at 7:27pm:
I have to say that I agree with Brew anyway.

Charlie

There's hope for me yet. ;)

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by stevegeebe on Jun 26th, 2008 at 7:30pm
It was close Brew.  I have not dug into it yet. Interested to see how it shook out.  Could it have been along Party lines?

Carolyn, if I'm this guy I would contest the decision. Give me death..please!

Steve G

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Brew on Jun 26th, 2008 at 7:35pm

stevegeebe wrote on Jun 26th, 2008 at 7:30pm:
Interested to see how it shook out.  Could it have been along Party lines?

It was in accordance with a strict constructionist interpretation of our Constitution.

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by mattscott on Jun 26th, 2008 at 8:59pm
While the supreme court’s ruling on the death penalty is completely ridiculous to me, it is--if nothing else--consistent. It is consistent with a long standing national policy of not taking sexual violence towards children seriously. We simply treat it like a minor annoyance, rather than the unforgivable act of a monster. We aren’t sending mixed signals here: our country’s policy is that raping a child is not worthy of our most severe punishment, because it’s not that severe of a crime.
Chalk one up for the molesters!

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Charlie on Jun 26th, 2008 at 9:19pm
Actually I think they ruled.....no matter how uncomfortably... about using the death penalty for crimes other than murder.

It does make one cringe

Charlie

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 26th, 2008 at 9:27pm
I guess in my opinion, when they rape a child, they do take a *life*.  No, they don't kill the child, but that child's life is forever altered and no matter what, that child will NEVER forget what happened.  Look at the one case in LA, he raped his 8 year-old step-daughter and damaged her so badly that she had to have surgery?

Although, I did agree with their second ruling, now the *thugs* in DC might think twice!

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 26th, 2008 at 9:37pm

Charlie wrote on Jun 26th, 2008 at 9:19pm:
Actually I think they ruled.....no matter how uncomfortably... about using the death penalty for crimes other than murder.

It does make one cringe

Charlie


Treason is still a death penalty offense.  What's the difference?

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by stevegeebe on Jun 26th, 2008 at 9:50pm
They dare not repealed the death penalty for Treason.  They want to reserve that to prosecute the first wave of the Revolution.

Steve G

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Charlie on Jun 26th, 2008 at 10:08pm
Treason is a war time crime when it's used. This new thing is one of those things courts love to deal with....that's all.

Charlie

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Leesa on Jun 27th, 2008 at 2:41am
To me if ya rape a child you DIE!!!  Get the trial over with, no appeal no life in prision to hell with all that mess. Let someone RAPE them oh about a million times with a base ball bat dipped in rozin (sp) then in broken glass, THEN if they live they can have the injection. Hell put the "animals" in ole spakey!!! When I heard about the LA thing I was pissed off to say the least. It just chapes my ass!!

Glad to see I can still keep my guns!!! Even if they said I couldnt I would have any way. I found a shirt that says it all
"They can have my guns when they pry them outta my cold dead fingers!" Cuz thats when they will get mine and NOT before!!!
Leesa, gun owner for LIFE  :)

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by tuck on Jun 27th, 2008 at 7:46am
personally, I am thrilled with BOTH decisions!!!!! C'mon folks, I mean, how many of us have begged God while in the clutches of  MAJOR HIT to just "let us die"?  and why??? to ease our suffering, to end the pain. These bastards dont derserve the swift gift of death!!!!  Hell, I think before we lock em up we ought to give them a gift of 5000$ worth of free plastic surgery! a nice new set of boobs,,,,,ON THEIR BACKS!!! Then let Bubba, Tyrone, and ALL the rest of cell-block H have a real good time with their new "bitch". Hell, I hope the SOB's live to be a hundred!!!!!!             Tuck

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Charlie on Jun 27th, 2008 at 9:36am
Then there is an old idea by anti-death penalty types that all you need to do is lock them up and let the families come in once a week and beat the shit out of them.

Kind of appealing in this case, especially.

Charlie

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Brew on Jun 27th, 2008 at 10:20am
This wouldn't work in every case, but there are a few I can think of:

Lock 'em up with nothing on the wall except a picture of their victim(s), a la Susan Smith. Let 'em beat the shit out of themselves.

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by BarbaraD on Jun 27th, 2008 at 2:13pm
Oh heck, with Susan Smith it wouldn't work. She's SORRY now that she's found God. The kids are still DEAD, but she's SORRY - she just didn't know what she was doing at the time...  yeah right!!!! And you tell me what's too bad to do to her?

Hugs BD

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Groov on Jun 27th, 2008 at 7:36pm

wrote on Jun 26th, 2008 at 3:46pm:
And I love 'em for upholding the 2nd Amendment this morning.



Absolutely Brew !!!!

 It didn't need to be debated and the 5-4 vote should have been unanimous.
However, the point is that our high court did indeed rule to protect The Constitution despite political correctness and having to take heat.

 Hopefully future decisions will be made to preserve The Constitution without regards to the opinion D'Jour.

Cheers, Dave

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Brew on Jun 27th, 2008 at 7:40pm

Groov wrote on Jun 27th, 2008 at 7:36pm:

wrote on Jun 26th, 2008 at 3:46pm:
And I love 'em for upholding the 2nd Amendment this morning.

  It didn't need to be debated and the 5-4 vote should have been unanimous.

That's the part that still concerns me the most - that 4 people on the highest court were ready to re-write the Constitution.

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Groov on Jun 27th, 2008 at 7:56pm
So true Brew, but at least they "reluctantly" understand why it is imperative that we preserve as opposed to revise. A very simple concept that defines The Supreme Courts' very purpose.

  As it relates to the child rape decision.....I'm a little less informed.
Past precedent has seemed to only involve cases of murder. Can child rape be included and pass Constitutional scrutiny???

As with the 2nd decision, forget personal feelings on the subject and state how it would be ruled as Constitutional. Interesting subject to me.

"Personally" it is so beyond me how anyone could commit such a horrible crime that I am ashamed to think it even needs to be considered by the high court...SIGH !!!!

Dave

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 27th, 2008 at 9:54pm
Well, I've read the 8th amendment as many times as I can and I see absolutely nothing that would prohibit the use of the death penalty in the cases that were just overturned (specifically child rape).  The 8th amendment specifically states, "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.".

Now, given that this was written/ratified around 1785, what would *you* think would have been the punishment for a person who raped a child?  (1) It probably never would have gone to trial, (2) The defendent probably couldn't have found an attorney that would have defended him had he survived  being found out, and so on.

Think about it, back when this was written, the death penalty was meted out in far less heinous cases than the rape of a child.

In Furman v. Georgia, 408 U.S. 238 (1972) Justice Brennan wrote, "There are, then, four principles by which we may determine whether a particular punishment is 'cruel and unusual'."

The "essential predicate" is "that a punishment must not by its severity be degrading to human dignity," especially torture.
"A severe punishment that is obviously inflicted in wholly arbitrary fashion."
"A severe punishment that is clearly and totally rejected throughout society."
"A severe punishment that is patently unnecessary."
Continuing, he wrote that he expected that no state would pass a law obviously violating any one of these principles, so court decisions regarding the Eighth Amendment would involve a "cumulative" analysis of the implication of each of the four principles.

To be quite honest, unless states started trying to expand the scope of the death penalty, I don't see how frying a child rapist violates any of the precepts laid out by Justice Brennan.

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Brew on Jun 27th, 2008 at 10:01pm
Me either, Carolyn.

Me either.

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Callico on Jun 28th, 2008 at 1:08am
When written, according to other writings by James Madison, "cruel and unusual" referred to burning at the stake, the rack, drawing and quartering, and other things of that nature.  Hanging was commonly used, but had to be with a drop, not slowly as to intentionally cause suffocation.  
Firing squad was also used, but less commonly.  To have had the high court have to rule on pain caused by trying to insert the needle into a vein as cruel and unusual would have been laughed out of the court, and the attorney bringing the case would have been disbarred for wasting the Court's time.

Jerry

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by Groov on Jun 28th, 2008 at 3:15am
Nice work Delta !!!

After reading more carefully, I now understand that Justice Kennedy wasn't saying it can ONLY be used for crimes involving murder...only that it (in his opinion) is not a suitable punishment for this particular crime.

 I doubt his opinion is  shared by the majority of the citizenry.  With that in mind, I have to wonder if the death penalty will ever be ruled acceptable for anything other than what it is currently being used for.



  In answer to your question relating to what would happen to the accused......if he was found guilty, I suspect he would not last a week.
;)

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by BarbaraD on Jun 28th, 2008 at 9:12am
I didn't used to be for the death penalty until a nice lady was brutally murdered in my hometown by a man who actually "laughed" about doing the crime. It took 25 years to execute him, but Texas finally did it. Had they commutted his sentence (as the Bleeding hearts kept bringing up to the courts) he would have walked out of jail the next day (some loophole in the law).

And YES, there have been mistakes and some innocent people have been executed and for that we're all sorry. But with today's technology - we shouldn't be making those mistakes.

Back in the 1800s "horse thief" was a "hanging offense" - so I can't see why child rape wouldn't warrant the same penalty. I really doubt that the horse thief was held at the expense of the taxpayers for 20 years while the thief exhausted all appeals in the case.

The SC has just gotten so politically correct these days that they're interupting the constitution to mean what they "think" it "should" mean - not the intention.

And the second ammendment - what's to figure out -- of course we're "allowed" to keep our guns. Don't know about the rest of the states but in Texas the Real Estate laws offer "quiet and peaceful" enjoyment of owned real estate. Loosly interupted (by me) -- you mess with my land - I shoot you!

But on the other hand -- if some pervert ever touched my grandson do you really believe they'd "live" to see a courtroom?

Hugs BD

Title: Re: I just love our Supreme court!
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 28th, 2008 at 9:24am

BarbaraD wrote on Jun 28th, 2008 at 9:12am:


But on the other hand -- if some pervert ever touched my grandson do you really believe they'd "live" to see a courtroom?

Hugs BD


You know Barb, while this is true, you don't really know what you'll do until it happens.  Yeah, you have an overwhelking urge to kill the fuck*r, but you also have *thought* in the back of your head, that if you go to jail for killking the bastich, who's gonna be there for your kid (btdt, gtts),

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