...think of you and your struggle to keep your head above water with your bills......They go on vacation!

"Rep. John Culberson used his cell phone to record this video after Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats refused to vote on an off-shore drilling measure, shut out the lights and turned of the microphones in the House of Representatives."

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RICH SCUMBAGS!!!! [smiley=bash.gif]

Pelosi is INSANE.

Bush needs to order a special session (he can do this, executive order) and FORCE the issue before the election.

Make those A$$holes vote and show their true colors.  Then WE THE PEOPLE can know who we are voting for.

Damnit to hell Jonny!!!!!  Why do you do this to me?!?!?!?! I just finished a cycle from hell, was feeling REALLY good, and you got me ALL FIRED UP over the #@%@$#%@ lib dems again. OK,, I am breathing deep,, relaxing,,, oohhmmmmm,    ,  there, all better now.  kind of amazing how well the country has been doing since the dems took over the majority,, aint it????  P.S. Jonny,, whatever you do,, PLEASE dont get me started on France.     Tuck

tuck wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 9:55pm:

kind of amazing how well the country has been doing since the dems took over the majority,, aint it????

Yeah aint it?.......have a look! ;)

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wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 9:43pm:

Bush needs to order a special session (he can do this, executive order) and FORCE the issue before the election.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Bush to do that.  Keep things as they are, or it might mess with his oil income.

Anyway you look at it, we are screwed.  Republicans or Democrats.  They are all idiots.

It has been said over and over again, but it will never happen.  We need to clean house, and get a whole NEW batch in both houses!

But again, we are left with the decision of the lesser of two idiots.  And it almost doesn't matter which party they are part of.  Neither one cares about you and me.  Only lining their own pockets, and the of pockets of their lackeys ...

What a GREAT fix to be in!

Chuck

wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 9:43pm:

Pelosi is INSANE.

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Pelosi dont give a fuck because WE pay for her fucking gas, not just in her car.....but,in her fucking lear jet!

Edit to add: And some folks want to elect Obama?....he says he is going to raise ALL taxes.....LOL

SUCKERS!!!!!  ;D

I never, ever enter into any political debate but I DO have a question....

Does anyone really think that Democrat or Republican...either one of them....actually gives a rats ass about the average guy/gal  out there working his/her  ass off.???  They care only about themselves no matter which party the ascribe to.




 

I can't speak for the ones who get elected, because they seem to have abandoned all of the the principles I would associate with my party of choice, but as a registered Republican, I GIVE A RAT'S ASS.

I want a government that does the bare minimum required to ensure that every American has the opportunity to be prosperous.  That's right, the bare minimum, BUT I WANT THEM TO DO IT.

Lower taxes, a strong military that protects our way of life, a free market, a reasonable energy policy.  You know, the little things.

Even though the Republicans have been stupidly irresponsible during the last 8 years, I cannot get behind putting in a radical left wing communist (Marxist actually, but that's putting too fine a point on it for most people) in office.  Obama is a proven believer in redistribution of wealth, higher taxes, and putting 'world' citizenry above his commitment to American sovereignty.  These facts are indisputable.  It's just sad that 'americans' are willing to let the Democrats completely destroy this great country in the name of retaliating for 8 years of Bush.

</rant>

This lunatic idea that Democrats have been responsible for much of anything since they have the majority is absurd. Everything they come up with that might do some good faces the standard Bush veto and gets set aside because of the lack of veto proof majorities....much to the delight of the the obstructor in chief.

Charlie

if you read my comment Charlie, I said the Republicans were stupidly irresponsible for the last 8 years, so I hope it's clear I don't singularly blame the Democrats for the state we're in.

Linda_Howell wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 11:24pm:

I never, ever enter into any political debate but I DO have a question.... Does anyone really think that Democrat or Republican...either one of them....actually gives a rats ass about the average guy/gal  out there working his/her  ass off.???  They care only about themselves no matter which party the ascribe to.

Our people in congress truely lost touch with the fact that we pay them to represent us.  They have entitled themselves to our riches and instead of representing us they manipulate us.  Who in gods name gets to give themselves a raise?  (owners of their own buisness are an exception)  The only way the people of this nation can regain control of their nation is to vote a critical mass OUT of office so that the incoming congress can't learn the ways of the past congress and the old ones left would be to afraid to teach the new ones.  What is the critical mass?  I would guess it would be close to 80% at this point.

Charlie, you do realize that the Dem's are just as, if not more guilty of taking away your liberties and freedoms as the Repub's.  The difference is the Repubs do it in the name of security, the Dems do it in the name of "benifit of society".  You look at the history of the 9th court of apeals and then look at the decision they upheld in my header post and tell me that the Dems truely want you to be free.  Far from it.  They want the citizens to be totaly dependant upon government so control lies with congress, not the people.

-P.

Me, I'm ACTIVELY campaigning AGAINST anyone who's in OFFICE now.....

And I think it's about time everyone quit trying to place BLAME on everyone else and work toward a SOLUTION for getting out of the mess we're in. The fact is we've got a PROBLEM - regarless of who's fault it is -- placing blame will NOT solve it -- we NEED a SOLUTION! So far I haven't heard one from ANYONE!! Only more blame and name calling from ALL sides...

I'm sick of all of 'em....

Where's Kinky Friedman when you need a THIRD PARTY?

Hugs BD

BarbaraD wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2008 at 11:54am:

we NEED a SOLUTION! So far I haven't heard one from ANYONE!!

Revolution?

Move to another country?

Linda_Howell wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 11:24pm:

I never, ever enter into any political debate but I DO have a question.... Does anyone really think that Democrat or Republican...either one of them....actually gives a rats ass about the average guy/gal  out there working his/her  ass off.???  They care only about themselves no matter which party the ascribe to.

well they care about the major corporations that contribute to their campaigns.

From Fubar:
Quote:

if you read my comment Charlie, I said the Republicans were stupidly irresponsible for the last 8 years, so I hope it's clear I don't singularly blame the Democrats for the state we're in.

That was a general comment Fub. It's in response to dozens of posts about the idea that Democrats are the ones getting in the way of doing good for the country. Little if anything gets by when there is a constant veto threat.

From Paul:

Quote:

Charlie, you do realize that the Dem's are just as, if not more guilty of taking away your liberties and freedoms as the Repub's.  The difference is the Repubs do it in the name of security, the Dems do it in the name of "benifit of society".  You look at the history of the 9th court of apeals and then look at the decision they upheld in my header post and tell me that the Dems truely want you to be free.  Far from it.  They want the citizens to be totaly dependant upon government so control lies with congress, not the people.

I'll take the Democrats over the GOP any time for protecting my right to read and do what I like. It's the Republicans since 2000 that were caught running fake news conferences, censoring at levels not seen since WWII, and claiming that the Executive branch is immune to Congressional oversight. No matter who is elected, he will have to get out the Scotch Tape and try to patch up what's left of the Constitution and things like Justice and the FDA that have been planted with idiot friends, incompetents and or political hacks.....not to mention those that have close ties to the very businesses that they are supposed to keep track of.  

Democrats aren't scary unless you make so much money that you have to do your banking in Aruba. When I was a kid, Republicans were close to Ron Paul in their thinking; today they pretend to be guardians of the faithful and peer in bedroom windows......so long as it gets them elected. Of course there's always torture "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques," God what horror and embarrassment for the country. There isn't much left of us when we behave like our enemies.

Charlie

Charlie,

I really think both parties have lost touch with the Constitution.  Back in the pre-PAC days both sides could come together for the good of the country and the citizens, now they both hold the hands of the PAC's.  Congress has become so polarized that any good one side proposes, the other paints as very bad.

With respect to torture; Do you think waterboarding and terrorists on a leash compares to what has taken place in the past???  Remember Viet Nam?  They used to shoot prisoners in the legs to try and get them to talk.  One good form of interrigation was to take two prisoners up in a chopper.  They would start asking questions.  If there was no response they would throw one guy out and the secong one would sing like there was no tomorrow.  This was during the Johnson admin.  

Thank god the US congress didn't use WWll for their own agenda.  We and all of Europe would be speaking German right now. :D

Both parties have lost touch because they have become isolated from the everyday life of the people they were elected to serve.  Elect them out of office and get fresh reps. in there.  ALL OF THEM!

-P.

Paul98 wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2008 at 6:41am:

Both parties have lost touch because they have become isolated from the everyday life of the people they were elected to serve.  Elect them out of office and get fresh reps. in there.  ALL OF THEM! -P.

Paul you are right on this one, but to UNELECT these people it would take the PEOPLE doing it and sadly, the people just don't have the balls to do it.

Until we get some common sense back in DC and some PACs out of DC and career politicians OUT, we're just gonna be complaining. Maybe someday the people will get enough and get out and vote all the "old guard" out and we can start over with new faces, but .... then I wake up and it's the same old hype....

Hugs BD

BarbaraD wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2008 at 7:21am:

Maybe someday the people will get enough and get out and vote all the "old guard" out and we can start over with new faces, but .... then I wake up and it's the same old hype.... Hugs BD

Exactly.  This same crap was played out just 2 and 4 years ago.  Its the same ol hype about 'change'.  You know....'real change'.  Remember the first 100 days hype and all that BS early last year?
There are some politicians on both sides of the aisle that I like, but I do not like either party.

America doesn't torture......hasn't anyway. Our founders would be sickened to learn of it. I still have a hard time believing it. It just ain't American. Bulldozing Gitmo would be a start.

Charlie

Linda,

Good on you...  But don't sugar coat it...  Both parties have shit the bed with respect to honoring their oaths of office and remembering who they really work for when they were elected and took office.  IMHO, the time has come where we need to push for term limits for members of the House and Senate as well as a total ban on earmarks.

The current majority liberal leadership of the House and Senate are little more than power hungry pinko liberal hippie dopers from the 60's. Despite all the promises made prior to their election, they turn out the lights on debate in order to ensure a continued and unopposed push of their own socialist agenda... but then liberalism is a mental disorder, so the folks that voted for them should have known better.

Unfortunately, the obamanoids pulling the strings on their self anointed marionette messiah who sounds good, but can't speak a complete Marxist sentence without a teleprompter, have mesmerized the democratic voters with a gucci and shallow promo of change.  And that change will make Nikita Khrushchev's promise to have communism take over the US without a shot being fired very prophetic and so terribly true.

As compassionate members of this site who reach out to help fellow sufferers time and time again, remember one thing about this false prophet...

He has consistently voted in favor of legislation that permits a butcher to reach into a woman's womb, grab an unborn child by the feet and rip it far enough out of the mother's body to expose its neck in order to plunge surgical scissors into the base of the child's skull and sever the spinal cord to prevent it from taking a breath and be considered a "Live Birth."  Think about that when you hear the word "change" come from his lips.

This jerk is so weak and unexperienced it's pathetic...  Think about the following scenario when the string pullers are not present:  The NMCC calls the White House to convene a Missile Conference...  "Mr. President, there are confirmed indications of multiple missile launches targeting Washington DC, New York, LA, and San Francisco....  What retaliatory option do you choose?"

"Ah... ah ah ah...  Let me put it this way...  er... er... er, ah ah ah..."  

If you find this scenario hard to believe, listen to and watch the You Tube videos of his latest "Town Hall" meeting in Cedar Rapids... Please note that all the videos are posted by "BarackObamadotcom" and have been carefully edited to omitted the Q&A part of the meeting where he fell on his face unable to utter a complete and intelligible sentence when asked questions of substance.  I watched it live…

Think about that long and hard as well before you vote...  Think also about the gent in Oregon with terminal prostate cancer and the fact that the state sponsored medical insurance will not give him the very expensive drugs that would help him maintain a reasonable quality of life for the year or two he has left, but will fund doctor assisted suicide…  Government can only ration…

On the other side of the isle, too many of the minority republicans have lost their conservative moral rudders so have become as useless as tits on a boar hog.

Yes, John McCain has his problems, but I know where he came from, where he was, where he is now, and where I think he can lead us...  I can't say that for the self anointed Marxist messiah dancing to the pull of strings at the behest of people like George Soros...

So what do we do?  

Talking about the problems and potential solutions in a forum like this is good, but that dog won't hunt if that's all the farther we go...  

We all need to think long and hard about all the politicians we intend to vote for in the next and subsequent elections and why.  We need to be as critical of them as we are of our own convictions to ensure the decisions we make on who to vote for are consistent, supportable, and in keeping with our own values.

This is America.  Our form of government isn't perfect, but it is so much better than the alternatives.  Let's side with the millions of Americans who have given their lives defending our Constitution and way of life to keep it that way.  Think!

;D

I'm voting Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job
 of spending the money I earn than I would.

 I'm voting Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as nobody is
 offended by it.


 I'm voting Democrat because, when we pull out of Iraq, I know that the bad
 guys will stop what they're doing because they now think we're good
 people.


 I'm voting Democrat because I believe that people who can't tell us if it
 will rain on Friday  can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in
 fifty or a hundred years if I don't start driving a Prius.


 I am voting Democrat because I know we don't need to develop American
 energy resources as long as I properly inflate my tires.


 I am voting Democrat because I believe that business profits are
 unnecessary.  Businesses only need to break even and give the rest to the
 government for redistribution to deserving people who are entitled to it.


 I'm voting Democrat because I believe five elite liberal judges should
 rewrite the Constitution to meet international standards and to implement
 "laws" that could never get past American voters.


 I'm voting Democrat because I believe that when the terrorists come over
 here, I don't want to have any guns in the house to fight them with.


 I'm voting Democrat because I believe "marriage" is whatever anyone wants
 it to be except for those who belong to some right-wing religious sect.


 I'm voting Democrat because I believe oil companies' profits of 8% on a
 gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon of
 gas at 20% isn't.

 Makes ya wonder why anyone would EVER vote Republican, now doesn't it?

EXCELLENT post dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tuck wrote on Aug 6^th, 2008 at 4:59pm:

EXCELLENT post dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didnt write it, man....I just presented it...LOL  ;)

Quote:

I didnt write it, man....I just presented it...

I've got a parrot that's just as well trained. ;)

Jonny,

There have been many times that you and I have been at opposite ends of the spectrum.

But, with this post, there is nothing here that I can really argue with you about - darn!  >:(

However, yes the Democrats took a vacation without finalizing some critical votes, but so did the Republicans, Independents, and whatevers.  In other words, EVERYBODY left leaving vital votes undecided and the American citizens hanging in the balance.  

I vote for a new party!

Sandy

The republicans left ONLY after a five hour protest of the lights being turned off by the Dems.

"Update 7: Rep Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) just pretended to be a Democrat. He stood on the other side  of the chamber and listed all of the GOP bills that the Dems killed.

He then said, "I am a Democrat, and here is my energy plan" and he held up a picture of an old VW Bug with a sail attached to it. He paraded around the House floor with the sign while the crowd cheered.

Update 8: It's over.

Right at the stroke of five Georgia Rep. Tom Price announced that House Republicans were ending their impromptu protest on the floor of the chamber, ending a five-plus hour rebellion with a round of "God Bless America."

The assembled tourists, aides and members in the chamber gave Price and his compatriots a standing ovation. They left the chamber to shouts of "USA! USA! USA!"

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If the dems and reps would use all that hot air for something productive we wouldn't have an energy problem!

Hugs BD

Gee, last year the democrats had time to vote themselves a pay raise before they turned out the lights.

With the way things are going with the energy vote quashing by Nancy Pelosi, next year they will be voting for their raise in the dark!

Roland  ::)

I like Evan Bayh of Indiana. A moderate Democrat. Hopefully he will balance out the ticket with President Obama. Evan's a good man, and his record shows it. Find some dirt on this man.....good luck.

Of course, in the interest of full disclosure....he is my cousin...our grandfathers were brothers. :)

KJ wrote on Aug 6^th, 2008 at 7:01pm:

Hopefully he will balance out the ticket with President Obama.

Quote:

Hopefully he will balance out the ticket with presumed democratic nominee Obama.

There. Fixed it for ya.

Republicans vote themselves raises too in the middle of the night. Been at this shit for centuries.....bashtards.

Brew is right. "Presumed" President. Dewey was the winner in 1948 until Truman won it. Iffy things: elections.

Bayh is a good man but I like Biden. He'd put the foreign policiy debate on a new level.

Charlie

Charlie wrote on Aug 6^th, 2008 at 9:23pm:

Brew is right. "Presumed" President.

Quote:

presumed democratic nominee

There. Fixed it again.

wrote on Aug 6^th, 2008 at 5:41pm:

The republicans left ONLY after a five hour protest of the lights being turned off by the Dems.

na na na na boo boo. i don't think it makes any difference. bush is such an incredible prick that their not going to get anything accomplished.

the bush administration did push their mexican trucking pilot program for another 2 years. this effects anyone who consumes anything or has loved ones driving up and down the road.

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How can the American public not begin seriously talking about a revolution?  Our country was founded on the very idea of ending the very crap we are putting up with right now, and instead of revolution, at least half of the country is marching in lockstep towards radical leftism, BEGGING to be screwed even harder.  Idiocracy?  I think we're there.

wrote on Aug 6^th, 2008 at 11:10pm:

How can the American public not begin seriously talking about a revolution?  Our country was founded on the very idea of ending the very crap we are putting up with right now, and instead of revolution, at least half of the country is marching in lockstep towards radical leftism, BEGGING to be screwed even harder.  Idiocracy?  I think we're there.

Socialism is a form of adictive cancer.  Once it is established it is very hard to get rid of and eats from the inside out.  For many it is the apearance of getting something for nothing.  For pols it is the pusher's first freebie.  Feels good kid...want some more?  Vote for me and I'll get ya some :D

Once you start taking incentive out of working hard (taxes) and pride in your work (habitual welfare) society heads right down the crapper and you end up with places like Co-Op City in NY.  Almost exclusivly; the further left a country goes the worse off the common population is in that country.

-P.

I really think the last GOOD president we had was Harry Truman. He got up, went to work every morning, did what had to be done, went home at night, drank his buttermilk and went to bed. He didn't make excuses - he just did what had to be done and said so. I think he was the last president we had with any "common" sense.

Yeah a revolt is what it's gonna take to get our country back, but the people just don't want to put out the effort. Maybe we can hire some of these "guest workers" to do it for us. I hear they work pretty cheap...

Hugs BD

The thing about the revolution was that it was to get rid of autocracy. George II has created the most autocratic adminstration in my lifetime. They are populated by people that are forced to declare their right-wing political purity rather than ability.They are asked why they want to serve George Bush. They seem to forget that they are there to serve us, not him.

Charlie

Charlie,

George II is so bad, and he's only there until the Messiah gets elected, so everything be be all better next year.  Right?  I don't pay nearly enough taxes today, and I should feel like an a$$hole for driving myself to an actual job.  Thank God that will be fixed next year.

This is a scary time my friends.

Shawn

I've actually campaigned for Oklahoma's HD 43 in 2006.  Didn't like what I saw from either sides behind the curtains, but I am a little concerned about OBAMA taking the US flag off his plane....kinda Un-American.

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[smiley=JAW_DROP.gif]

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Shawn......The horror we have witnessed for the last nearly eight years is stunning. Bush is a nightmare and his own party as much acknowleges it. Every GOP candidate...except McCain runs screaming at his offer of help in their elections. Bush has found the one thing that he can do: Elect Democrats. The degree of damage to the country perpetrated by him and his ilk is unlike anything I've seen in my 61 years and it will likely take decades to repair.

Will things be better after Bush? Of course......it better be. If things are worse, the country would cease to resemble the great experiment on which it was designed. I can only hope that the press will not give the next usurper a pass just because he was around during a disaster and had such a bad aim.

Charlie....not exactly a Bush supporter

Charlie wrote on Aug 7^th, 2008 at 5:55pm:

Shawn......The horror we have witnessed for the last nearly eight years is stunning. Bush is a nightmare and his own party as much acknowleges it. Every GOP candidate...except McCain runs screaming at his offer of help in their elections. Bush has found the one thing that he can do: Elect Democrats. The degree of damage to the country perpetrated by him and his ilk is unlike anything I've seen in my 61 years and it will likely take decades to repair. Will things be better after Bush? Of course......it better be. If things are worse, the country would cease to resemble the great experiment on which it was designed. I can only hope that the press will not give the next usurper a pass just because he was around during a disaster and had such a bad aim. Charlie....not exactly a Bush supporter

Awww, Charlie, don't hold it back!  Just tell us how you really feel about Bush. ;) :-*

-P.

Someone do me a favor?

If you think Obama is experienced enough to lead this country, please post and tell me that! I would love to hear from just one person that thinks he is experienced enough to take on the most important job on this planet.

Batter up!

Charlie wrote on Aug 7^th, 2008 at 10:03am:

The thing about the revolution was that it was to get rid of autocracy. George II has created the most autocratic adminstration in my lifetime. They are populated by people that are forced to declare their right-wing political purity rather than ability.They are asked why they want to serve George Bush. They seem to forget that they are there to serve us, not him. Charlie

We the people...


The 55 at the Articles of Confederation in Philadelphia


Quote:

The men, mostly lawyers, who in 1787 met in Philadelphia to write the Constitution simply agreed that Washington was the man. It's hard now to imagine but you see there were no political parties. In fact a system, such a system, the delegates to the Constitution were most anxious to avoid. Washington underlined the menace of political parties by stressing that: "They provoke the mischief of associations and combinations." START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

"...the mischief of associations and combinations."  

I'd guess the bunch of guys remembered the hickory switch behind the wood shed.   ;)      Today they don't.

Ben Franklin walked out the door for the last time after 17 weeks of debate and deliberation and was asked by a woman, "So Dr., what have we, a monarchy or a republic?"

"A republic if you can keep it."


Something tells me he knew the struggle is not ever over for the people.  "... if you can keep it."  


We got a job to do.  

Charlie wrote on Aug 7^th, 2008 at 5:55pm:

Shawn......The horror we have witnessed for the last nearly eight years is stunning. Bush is a nightmare and his own party as much acknowleges it. Every GOP candidate...except McCain runs screaming at his offer of help in their elections. Bush has found the one thing that he can do: Elect Democrats. The degree of damage to the country perpetrated by him and his ilk is unlike anything I've seen in my 61 years and it will likely take decades to repair. Will things be better after Bush? Of course......it better be. If things are worse, the country would cease to resemble the great experiment on which it was designed. I can only hope that the press will not give the next usurper a pass just because he was around during a disaster and had such a bad aim. Charlie....not exactly a Bush supporter

Silly me, I didn't think Bush was in this election.  Every time I see the talking heads on the idiot box talking about Obama vs. McCain, the Democrats want to talk about Bush and how bad he was and how McCain is going to be another Bush.  It is a specious argument that nothing to answer the very real questions about Obama's policies.

We need CHANGE.  I thing we can all agree on that.  But the change that Obama offers is a fundamental change to communism.  I think that's what the people of this country are missing.  They don't even flinch when he promises to raise taxes and redistribute wealth.  Sounds nice if your not wealthy, but guess what, you are wealthy if you have 2 cents to rub together.

I do not like McCain.  I am voting for McCain because there are many issues we agree on and he is Obama's opponent. I want 'change' as much as anybody else.

Shawn, what is the difference between the politically correct "Stimulus package" and your buzzwords "Redistribution of wealth"?

wrote on Aug 7^th, 2008 at 7:40pm:

Someone do me a favor? If you think Obama is experienced enough to lead this country, please post and tell me that! I would love to hear from just one person that thinks he is experienced enough to take on the most important job on this planet. Batter up!

Hello! Pick me! I do! :)

KJ wrote on Aug 8^th, 2008 at 6:49pm:

wrote on Aug 7th, 2008 at 7:40pm: Someone do me a favor? If you think Obama is experienced enough to lead this country, please post and tell me that! I would love to hear from just one person that thinks he is experienced enough to take on the most important job on this planet. Batter up! Hello! Pick me! I do! :)

Ok, what is his experience? ::)

Looks to me like we need some NEW RULES for Congress. My opinion - if anyone in Congress misses 3 votes they're OUT -- McCain has missed over a 100 votes lately... some important ones. I'd say he's NOT doing the job we're PAYING him to do, yet he's still drawing a salary from US. What kind of LEADERSHIP does that show -- where's he gonna be when he's NEEDED?

Now Obama doesn't have YEARS of experince in making mistakes (check out McCain's record on how he's voted over the years). But how many president's have had much experience? I don't know what kind of president he'd make... but I didn't know what kind of president JFK would make either. LBJ had YEARS of experience and look where he got us. Nixon had EXPERIENCE and look where that got us.

Harry Truman didn't have a lick of experience and I still contend he was the best president we'll see for generations to come, so I don't think the experience factor is much to go on. Right now I think we need some good old fashion common sense in DC. Quit worrying about the damn world and start worrying about the Mary and JOhn Smith's trying to make a living and raise their kids in THIS country.

I really don't think the President matters that much -- we need to look at the Congress and elect some people who'll do something there. Get those CAREER politicians OUT and get some new faces in who'll get the lobbyists OUT and start doing something for US. And then WE need to see they do what WE elected them to DO.

Hugs BD

It's ironic.
8 years ago the republicans said being governer for a few years is plenty of experience while the dems said Bush Jr is not qualified and has no experience.
Now the dems say that being senator for a few years is plenty of experience while the republicans say that Obama is not qualified and has no experience.

It's not just the politicians that flip flop.  It's the damn voters.

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Aug 8^th, 2008 at 8:48pm:

It's ironic. 8 years ago the republicans said being governer for a few years is plenty of experience while the dems said Bush Jr is not qualified and has no experience. Now the dems say that being senator for a few years is plenty of experience while the republicans say that Obama is not qualified and has no experience. It's not just the politicians that flip flop.  It's the damn voters.

"Governor" is an executive position. "Senator" is not.

That's why traditionally Senators and Representatives don't do very well in presidential elections. It'll be different this time, though. As distasteful as both are, one of 'em will win (even if it's Hillary - no, I haven't forgotten).

What sort of experience do you need, Jonny? The most important part is to put a good team around you, and I would think a man without much time in Washington wouldn't owe many people 'plum' positions.

Let's face it, the president is the most powerful man in the world, but I doubt he can figure out his taxes any better than I can figure out mine. He needs all sorts of folks to help run the show.

KJ wrote on Aug 8^th, 2008 at 9:55pm:

What sort of experience do you need, Jonny?

Do you always answer a question with a question?

I asked you the question.....right?

wrote on Aug 8^th, 2008 at 7:07pm:

KJ wrote on Aug 8th, 2008 at 6:49pm: wrote on Aug 7th, 2008 at 7:40pm: Someone do me a favor? If you think Obama is experienced enough to lead this country, please post and tell me that! I would love to hear from just one person that thinks he is experienced enough to take on the most important job on this planet. Batter up! Hello! Pick me! I do! :) Ok, what is his experience? ::)

The most important part is to put a good team around you, and I would think a man without much time in Washington wouldn't owe many people 'plum' positions.

Let's face it, the president is the most powerful man in the world, but I doubt he can figure out his taxes any better than I can figure out mine. He needs all sorts of folks to help run the show.

Is this more clearer? :)

You sound like a broken record going round and round, KJ.

You still have not answered the question!  ;)

Edit to add: Bush may be dumbass, but do we want a dude that cant even form a sentence when the telepromter goes out?

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Jonny, let me be clear. There is no particular experience that  makes someone qualified to be president.

KJ wrote on Aug 8^th, 2008 at 10:33pm:

Jonny, let me be clear. There is no particular experience that  makes someone qualified to be president.

Thats what Bill Clinton said when he avoided the question "is Obama qualified to be president."

It seems to me that someone that has been in the system for years would make a better choice over someone thats was discussing dog
catchers salaries just 3/4 years ago.....no?

You are making my head hurt...the brick wall defense.

I don't like McCain. I lived in Arizona for a time, and I got to see his work up close and personal. He was VERY lucky that he didn't get caught in the 'Keating  Five' scandal, which was part of the savings and loan meltdown.

This guy has been around too long, has too many folks to take care of, and isn't much of a leader at all. If I have to see that little grin/smirk much more, I will be ill.

So, I will agree to disagree with you Jonny

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Aug 8^th, 2008 at 6:24pm:

Shawn, what is the difference between the politically correct "Stimulus package" and your buzzwords "Redistribution of wealth"?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  That's a perfect example of Republicans off the rails.  Hence my displeasure with the current administration.  But like I said before, this is not about re-electing Bush.  It is about Obama vs. McCain.

Quote:

We need CHANGE.  I thing we can all agree on that.  But the change that Obama offers is a fundamental change to communism.  I think that's what the people of this country are missing.  They don't even flinch when he promises to raise taxes and redistribute wealth.  Sounds nice if your not wealthy, but guess what, you are wealthy if you have 2 cents to rub together

I love it when you bring up Communism in these little debates. I haven't heard this kind of thing since the 50s. It makes Ann Coulter sound rational.

Taxes are only okay, I guess when they disproportionately affect those least able to bear them. Back in those good old days of Eisenhower, taxes were so high that the whole country prospered to a degree never before seen. This was a time when even Texas oilmen acknowledged that there was something to bearing a little of the burden. It wasn't Communism, it was common decency. There just might be something to that Greatest Generation story.

Is Obama qualified? Certainly more so than George Bush who has shown an incredible lack of understanding history and inability to speak English. The nation has had a lot of iffy Presidents and very few of them came from the Senate. Maybe it's time for a contest like 1960.

It's too bad about McCain. Here is a decent guy but has Bush and his record as ballast....and that's fine with me since McCain has incredibly taken a lot of Dubya's positions. It's surprising and Bush might as well be running. The Republicans don't get it. McCain is stuck with the Bush 3rd term label. That's not the fault of Democrats, it's the GOP's own fault. When 80% of the country can't stand the leaders, you can't expect the opposition to ignore it. The GOP has been blaming Clinton for all their mistakes for more than a decade

Charlie

I don't like McCain and I don't like Obama. I'm going to write in Hillary, at least she has balls.

I'm sure this will open up a new can of worms, but I'm voting for Ron Paul. :)

Quote:

Is Obama qualified? Certainly more so than George Bush who has shown an incredible lack of understanding history and inability to speak English.

Just so I'm straight, Charlie, are you talking about Teleprompter-Obama or No-Teleprompter-Obama?

Quote:

It makes Ann Coulter sound rational.

He...he..he  ;D
thanks Charlie

Havent made up my mind till I find out about running mates.
Politics is just a big game for the elite. Washington DC needs a huge house cleaning.
Of the people by the people and for the people has been gone a very long time. :(
thebb............................see ya at the polls. :)

You know, Ron Paul has a lot of appeal to me too and since New York is a blue state anyway, it would be a safe vote.....this time at least. My neighbor and I have talked about it. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Charlie

Charlie wrote on Aug 9^th, 2008 at 1:24am:

I love it when you bring up Communism in these little debates. I haven't heard this kind of thing since the 50s. It makes Ann Coulter sound rational

Charlie, with you vast experience in years, your can't seriously believe that Obama is not a communist.  It's not like he tries to hide it.

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I dont get why right wingers seem to think communists are bad while terrorists are our friends.
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and howcome you crucify a democrat for talking with Iran but when a republican sells $20 billion in new weapons to Saudi Arabia, you call that a good idea for America?

What's up with that?

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Aug 10^th, 2008 at 2:08pm:

I dont get why right wingers seem to think communists are bad while terrorists are our friends.

Where was that said?.....Id love to know.   :-*

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Aug 10^th, 2008 at 2:08pm:

I dont get why right wingers seem to think communists are bad while terrorists are our friends.

Is it possible that both suck? Don't think for one second that GWB dictates my personal philosophy. Wake up and smell the coffee, dude.

O Bama is little more than a bootlicking socialist with the balls of a shrew who has gotten his political experience under Nancy Pelosi’s skirt.

What’s next? Al Franken for press secretary, or has the union money got Al locked up in their pocket as a senatorial whoopee cushion.

Maybe after one term Al will run for president on the plethora of experience he will get under Nancy’s skirt?

Sorry, I’m thinking out loud again. :P

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does anybody in this thread really believe either obama or mcain have our best interest in mind or. doesn't anybody ever question having 2 sorry ass candidates every 4 years. how many people voted for bush in 2000 because they thought al gore was a whiny ass wimp. which he was and still is but our alternative is gw. what a great leader he turned out to be. or how about when we spent tens of millions of $$$ to find out if bill got some head in the oval office. and after all that wasted time and tax $$$ spent on that what did the american people get out of that. not a goddamn thing. this power struggle between democrats and republicans is childish and stupid. turning out the lights and running around holding up pictures of vw bugs with sails or whatever the hell they do and these turkeys are making crucial decisions and running this country. i see the word revolution allot in this thread but theres not going to be any kind of a revolution if you only have 2 options.    

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Sorry kids. There comes point where even I realize that I'm not this gullible. ....... START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Pieces...Charlie START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

-johnny- wrote on Aug 10^th, 2008 at 11:34pm:

i see the word revolution allot in this thread but theres not going to be any kind of a revolution if you only have 2 options.

Historically, revolution only happens when you are given only one option.

Charlie wrote on Aug 11^th, 2008 at 12:47am:

Sorry kids. There comes point where even I realize that I'm not this gullible.

Oh come on Charlie, get in the foothold of a red scare.  The myth-making, quasi-front media mouthpieces couched in misleading names funded by money influencing the way the public thinks -- join the criticism of not being conservative enough, it outdoes accuracy in media any day.  ;)    It's far out man.  :D

Oh Damn!! Now where the hell did I store those robes, beads, flowers and sandals????

Let's MAKE PEACE NOT WAR..... :-* :-* :-*

Hugs BD

I don't know what I'd do without you people. I had to cut my cable down to basic local channels...real cheap though....so for now, I don't see CNN, MSNBC or Fixed News. I'm in a drought here and with dialup, it's not practical to view this stuff on line.

Keep it lively for me kids. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Lemme see.....Uh...cold here this morning: 58/15.

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I support the Publicans.

AussieBrian wrote on Aug 12^th, 2008 at 11:19am:

I support the Publicans.

I support the Pelicans.

I see the scarey word "communism" tossed around a bit, but do we all know the true definition of communism?  

I'd really like to hear Charlies view because Charlie thinks before answering.

wrote on Aug 12^th, 2008 at 11:42am:

I see the scarey word "communism" tossed around a bit, but do we all know the true definition of communism?   I'd really like to hear Charlies view because Charlie thinks before answering.

There has never been a larg human society that was truely Lennistic Communism.  Unless mankind can find a way to hardwire the human brain to that of an Ant or Bee, there will never be one.  Humans have been hardwired for survival over millions of years.  Early survival was based upon taking what you could get/find.  That doesn't fit well with true Communism.  Even Ants and Bees don't have a true communistic structure because you have heirachy within the colony.

I think everyone knows what is meant when using the term Communism and it is the accepted working definition as used today.  A one party system of government.

-P.

edit to add:  Think of China, Cuba, N. Korea, pre Soviet collapse Russia......Living as a common person within those frame works....Yes, that IS scarey!

Quote:

I think everyone knows what is meant when using the term Communism and it is the accepted working definition as used today.  A one party system of government.

A one party system is a Totalitarianism.  The two are often confused.


Quote:

Humans have been hardwired for survival over millions of years.  Early survival was based upon taking what you could get/find.  That doesn't fit well with true Communism.  Even Ants and Bees don't have a true communistic structure because you have heirachy within the colony.

Human beings are social.  We've been hardwired to work together.  Alone, we are too weak and slow to exist in the wild without technology or cooperation.  Taking what you can get/find doesn't work. You'd be kicked right out of our group. Our emotional make-up and group dynamic tend to support older group members or weaker group members regardless of their ablilties to contribute.  Sound like anything familiar?  

I'm not saying that Communism is the best economic system.  I don't know what the best ecomonic system is.

What I AM saying is that when people react with fear to the word communism, they're really afraid of Totalitarianism.

I'm skeert of ism's. Any of em. They all have one thing in common. They're own interests. At the cost of the people. All people everywhere. The few the rich and the powerful.
The big red machine is rollin now.
Pray for the people of Georgia.
thebb

Great post Pete.

wrote on Aug 12^th, 2008 at 2:09pm:

Quote: I think everyone knows what is meant when using the term Communism and it is the accepted working definition as used today.  A one party system of government A one party system is a Totalitarianism.  The two are often confused. [quote]Humans have been hardwired for survival over millions of years.  Early survival was based upon taking what you could get/find.  That doesn't fit well with true Communism.  Even Ants and Bees don't have a true communistic structure because you have heirachy within the colony.

Human beings are social.  We've been hardwired to work together.  Alone, we are too weak and slow to exist in the wild without technology or cooperation.  Taking what you can get/find doesn't work. You'd be kicked right out of our group. Our emotional make-up and group dynamic tend to support older group members or weaker group members regardless of their ablilties to contribute.  Sound like anything familiar?  

I'm not saying that Communism is the best economic system.  I don't know what the best ecomonic system is.

What I AM saying is that when people react with fear to the word communism, they're really afraid of Totalitarianism.

[/quote]

See bold in first quote above.   ;)   The word communism today is used like the word Kleenex is.  While a facial tissue may not be a Kleenex everyone knows what you are talking about.  

State owns all, one party system of government = totalitarianism= the working definition of communism.  Say it and people know what you are referring to and it is not the strict dictionary meaning.

-P.
and yes, I would be very afraid to live under such a system.  

What you say is probably right on the mark, Paul, but my question was
Quote:

but do we all know the true definition of communism?

Paul has it right as far as I know. The state owns the works and is happy to take a nice slice of the pie for showing you how to run your booth at the farmers market selling your corn crop. Out of this...in effect.... you are alloted one coat, one pair of shoes, one place to shop for one kind of food, one kind of entertainment, and so on. It's not exactly meant to be totalitarian but it runs against human nature and usually winds up.....perhaps.....like a really crappy example of  fascism. It was bounced around here for a time but to no avail. It ain't any fun.

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wrote on Aug 12^th, 2008 at 4:52pm:

What you say is probably right on the mark, Paul, but my question was Quote: but do we all know the true definition of communism?

Donna, I do not think the majority of folks realize pure communism is without heads of state, no personal ownership, no class stratification, and basically no government.  You own nothing and all are workers.  It is supposed to be the final social evolution of a society.  

Since pure communism can never exist the true meaning of the word is relegated to academic settings.

-P.

Paul said it better than I. I should have said that because it doesn't work, a pretty nasty bunch grabs hold and tries to make it seem like it does.

Charlie

Holy smokes, the discussion turned intelligent.

Paul and Charlie, I agree with you both.  (world ends... film at 11)

The reason I call Obama a communist (and remember, I really said Marxist but I began using the word communist exactly for the reasons Paul talks about) is because he consistently says that it is governments job to take our money and give it to others to 'even things out'.  If the oil companies make too much money, punish them.  If I make too much money working my ass off, I should pay a hefty penalty (higher taxes) because I can afford it.  If you want to be a dirt bag and not work, it's MY job to earn enough money to give the government enough to support your sorry ass.  If I die and want to leave my wealth to my children, TOO BAD, I have to give it to the government.  Why, because that's our responsibility.  It is like he's saying I'm a bad person if I work hard and make myself successful, because the only way I can do that is by taking away somebody else's opportunity to succeed.  It is not communist at all, actually, it is Marxism.

Republicans SUCK, well and truly.  But I will not vote for a man who wants to use my back to carry the idiots who refuse to help themselves.  Call me an insensitive a-hole if you like, but I am one of the most giving people you will ever meet.  The thing is, I like to give from the heart, not have it removed from my paycheck according to some Marxist plan.  From each according to their ability, to each according to his need.  Who said that?  Sounds all nice and Utopian, but it is Marxism, plain and simple.

And it's not like I'm some tax dodger either... I lost everything I owned (EVERYTHING) because of a f'd up tax code.  I lost my house, my business, my cars, my RV, my toys.  Every thing I owned.  Did the government care?  Hell no, they didn't care if I lived in a shopping cart.  They didn't care if I could feed my kids.  They only saw an outstanding tax bill of $672,000 and come hell or high water, they were going to get it.  I paid it in full and I am starting over.  Fine.  But I'm not helping vote in another Marxist.

wrote on Aug 12^th, 2008 at 7:58pm:

If I make too much money working my ass off, I should pay a hefty penalty (higher taxes) because I can afford it.  If you want to be a dirt bag and not work, it's MY job to earn enough money to give the government enough to support your sorry ass.

Kinda like this quote, bro?......I agree! >:(


Quote:

We do pay for it with our extremly high taxes and script charges however its not all in 1 lump some and we dont need insurance or we suffer like they do in the us so ya the UK has it better i would hate to be poor and live in the us just food for thought!!!

Some people just dont get it!  ::)

The sad pattern of Obama friendships
- Post Media Reply

One has to really wonder how well Barack Obama knows his close associates. When Obama finally put distance between himself and his pastor of 20 years, he claimed that the Jeremiah Wright who spoke at a press function in Detroit was not the man he heard preaching every Sunday. Now he claims that the Tony Rezko who got convicted yesterday on 16 counts of fraud and corruption isn�t the Tony Rezko who raised over $250,000 for Obama through 2004:

Obama has said whenever asked � and he has been asked repeatedly � that his relationship to Rezko, who had a history of befriending up-and-coming Illinois politicians, never strayed into official business. Obama said Rezko asked no favors and that he did him none.

Rezko has not raised money for Obama since 2004, and the Obama campaign gave to charity the donations linked to Rezko.

�I�m saddened by today�s verdict,� Obama said in a statement Wednesday. �This isn�t the Tony Rezko I knew, but now he has been convicted by a jury on multiple charges that once again shine a spotlight on the need for reform.�

Well, hold the phone for a moment. The timetable of the prosecution clearly shows that Obama �knew� this Rezko. The activities for which Rezko got convicted took place in 2004 and before. Rezko raised money for Obama for several years, the last of which was 2004, after which Rezko tapped out and got too hot for Obama and other politicians.

Obama�s association with Rezko coincides with Rezko�s corruption. Obama wants us to ignore the obvious and go away with the impression that Rezko somehow changed after their association ended, but that�s simply not the truth. Either Obama turned a blind eye to Rezko�s corrupt behavior or he didn�t have the judgment to see it.

It doesn�t work like that when a politician wants to sell his superior judgment as a key reason to elect him. So far, Obama wants us to trust his judgment despite the fact that he supposedly was ignorant of his preacher�s hate-filled sermons, directed taxpayer money to a Catholic priest who thinks America is the �greatest sin against God�, thinks William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn and their �overthrow capitalism� rhetoric is �mainstream�, and now is shocked, shocked! to find out that his fundraiser and real-estate partner was a corrupt fraud.

That shows extremely poor judgment in selecting associates. Why should we want to see that kind of judgment applied as President?

You be the judge!  ;)

Quote:

Some people just dont get it!

And some people (the same people) have become so dependent that they've forgotten what freedom tastes like.

Their forefathers - the ones who founded this country - are rolling over in their graves.

Quote:

Their forefathers - the ones who founded this country - are rolling over in their graves.

More like spinning like a rotisserie chicken.

Ok...a couple of things. First, the Obama pastor thing. Sad to say that this is the kind of thing we are supposed to worry about rather than war, energy, financial collapse, drug company greed feeding off the poor and sick, and all the financial wizards that are estimated to make 650 billion this year in the poverty industry, refinancing mortages at ursurious rates and the credit industry that eats away home equity of what's left of the middle class...and they prey on those least able to understand the very businesses that are "helping" them by charging 120% interest and even more in some cases...but no. We have to worry about some goofball's lack of what some think of as patriotism and that fact that Obama happened to be in the same church. It's not important, I guess that the Southern Christian Leadship Conference is a partner in a medical debt collection business and is quietly working to issue its own credit cards. Shameful! How un-Christian can you get? This makes Obama's gaff a little less important.

I would like it if everybody had bootstraps with which to pull themselves up. They don't. It's not a redistribution of wealth to make sure the old and infirm don't have to choose between keeping the heat on or getting drugs so they can stay alive. It's common decency and the way it was 50 years ago when people did pretty damned well for themselves and really did look out for the other guy.

Just how many times are we to swallow the tax cuts for CEOs when it's been demonstrated for 10 years that it's a flop. You can't buy trickle down economics after all this time. It's just the opposite: The money is flowing up from the bottom to a very thin slice of the economy that is doing just fine. The last figures I read are that those making billions, have had about a 2% increase in their wealth while those making less than $30,000 a year have lost about 4%. It's not communisitic to look twice at this. It's fine for the rich to get richer but it's dangerous for everybody when no one cares that the poor steadily get poorer every year. It's dangerous. Warren Buffet said it well: He thinks that something is askew when his tax rate is the same as someone making $20,000 a year. Tax cuts are insane today.

Even Reagan should have known better. You have to toss us a bone now and then. He had some experience with the poor and had his foot in the door at least but he didn't care. Since then, the Republicans have ceased to exist. I don't know what the party is today but it isn't anything resembling what I grew up with.

It's time to kill Republican vetoes, which is why I will vote Democratic. That alone is enough for me.

Charlie

As a country, we deserve what we vote into office.  You're right Charlie, there are no Republicans anymore.  But I still have to choose between someone who promises to make it much worse (my opinion, I acknowledge that) and someone I don't like but can find some common ground with.  Every single 'policy' that Obama has ever touted involves sucking more money from my pocket to build up more government programs.  Where the hell does he think this money is going to come from?  I can at least point to a *few* policies of McCain that I agree with.  Like never once voting for earmarks.  Ever.  Try to keep that up in the dragon's lair of Washington DC!  That man has some integrity, at least a little.

I don't know who Obama is.  I don't trust a single word he says.  I don't like the long list of associations with established criminals and anti-Americans like Ayers.  I don't think he has our best interests at heart at all.  I think he will say anything to get elected.  Those are just my opinions, and Republican or Democrat, I would never elect a man like him.  Thank God I have that right still, to vote my conscience.

From all the rhetoric I hear from the pro-Obama camp, this vote is just retaliation for 8 years of Bush and has nothing to do with the qualifications or integrity of their candidate.  That's a sad fact.

I happen to like McCain. He used to give the worst of the GOP a hard time but when he began showing up at rallies with Jerry Falwell, things got iffy.

Charlie

You tube=> Freedom to Fascism

Also check out "We the People Foundation"

Take your BP meds first.

Steve G

Charlie wrote on Aug 12^th, 2008 at 11:11pm:

You can't buy trickle down economics after all this time. It's just the opposite: The money is flowing up from the bottom to a very thin slice of the economy that is doing just fine.

Trickle down, the name given to the Mellon Plan in an era after the Gilded Age that capitalist's new sense of social responsibility would preclude the need for aggressive federal intervention in the marketplace.  It seemed to stand dependent upon an ethical capacity of business somewhat.
 Coolidge agreed and believed that corporate productivity would trickle down to all and did not typically constrast the needs of business with those of the public.  Cutting taxes to the rich would lead them to invest the windfall and spur production advances, which would benefit consumers and workers alike.  Also though, the term "special interests" was coined at this time.
 This then masked the dangers of a public investment deficit, a swelling of a middle class could now afford luxury, largely on the installment plan (parallels to housing today). It was a hope of Cal that the mores of the previous century might survive the new one, and that competition wouldn't degenerate into a mere selfish scramble of rewards.  This perhaps is what Charlie's posts seem to look at.

In a sense, what has trickled down has also trickled down and out of the country, in one example, jobs.  




wrote on Aug 13^th, 2008 at 12:02am:

From all the rhetoric I hear from the pro-Obama camp, this vote is just retaliation for 8 years of Bush and has nothing to do with the qualifications or integrity of their candidate.  That's a sad fact.

I can see this as a part.  

With the emergence of media back in the 20's, films and radio, different compentencies were required in politics, horse-trading skills and public persona the chief political instrument.  There's an internet today.
 Cal mentioned success lies in "how a president gauges, guides, and gives expression to the mood of the people he leads."  In this particular economic atmosphere there are listening ears to the word "change", easy enough to understand without caring about the particular details.


As to a thread entitled, "This is what the democrats..." and then discussing communism, I can't quite follow the dotted lines.  I'll agree with Charlie, "bounced around but to no avail."  Safeguard?  Cal again: "...human nature cannot be changed by an act of the legislature."
 Paul touched upon that similar idea about communism in his posts.

Kevin_M wrote on Aug 13^th, 2008 at 11:28am:

[As to a thread entitled, "This is what the democrats..." and then discussing communism, I can't quite follow the dotted lines.  I'll agree with Charlie, "bounced around but to no avail."  Safeguard?  Cal again: "...human nature cannot be changed by an act of the legislature."

I think the topic of communism cropped up because of the likes of Pelosi et. al.  These are the "new democrats" or "progressive" democrats.   They are not democrats, they are socialists or basically communists (I use the common working definition here)  You can bet they would like to just have their party and no other.  They think you are to stupid to run your life and manage your money.   Obama was mentored by a communist and he has learned well.  (Frank Marshall Davis)  Obama's voting reccord is one of the most liberal in congress.  These facts should give raised eyebrows about the true direction he will take this country if he was elected.  Congress, with a good bunch being the "new democrats" and a president cut from the same cloth.........

I would worry.

-P.

Change we can believe in.

Yes, it's a slogan that works.  Of course it works.  It works even when 80% of the people who buy into the slogan have no frikkin idea what this man intends to change.  The other 20% DO understand, and they are the far, far left.

We have people who are going to vote for Obama because he isn't Bush.

We have people who are going to vote for Obama because he isn't a Republican.

We have people who are going to vote for Obama because he isn't white.

Whenever anybody questions his close associations with people like Wright, Ayers, Farrakhan, Rezco and many other criminals and Anti-Americans, the only response is to misdirect and point fingers at Bush.

He promises to raise all taxes.  Death taxes, income taxes, capital gains, fuel taxes, cap & trade, etc.  He promises to give bribes (sorry, handouts?) to poor families.  He promises to punish hard working Americans for being successful.

It's a radical left wing platform, there is no other way to describe it.  And he is a racist of the ugliest kind.  God forbid you point out that he is black, because that makes you a racist, but he can bring it up whenever it suits him.

Hail to the (soon to be) chief.

Kevin, I think you nailed it... Obama knows all he has to do is promise 'change' and all of the people who (justifiably) feel screwed right now will say "hell yes, I'm for change" and will fall right in line.  They have no idea what they are voting for because they do not care.  They want change. They are going to get it.  God help us all.

Maybe everything will be all better when I don't need to work and the government will provide me with everything I need.  100% dependence on government is the only answer that works, right?  Does anybody remember what the Declaration of INdependence was all about?  Does anyone care anymore?

Charlie, you are a smart man.  You give a lot of thought to your answers and I respect that.  I do not agree with you that Americans don't take care of their own (if they are able).  If it were not for the government taking so much of my income, I could give even more than I do to my church, my family, my community and the charities I support.  I would bet that for every $1 taken from me by this inefficient and corrupt system, maybe a penny goes to a worthy cause.  It's a broken system, and the answer isn't to have them taking even more of my money to waste.  The answer is LESS government programs, giving the people the ability to do what they used to be able to do, PROSPER.

McCain has some screwed up policies as well, but he is not in the camp that says government can do it better than I can, and that's where I draw the line.  Government should not encumber it's people unnecessarily.  Safety nets are fine, but when you make the system so that it punishes the people for doing the right thing, something is wrong.  Just look at welfare... have more babies, get more checks from the government, but don't try to get married and start a real family because they'll take your checks away... and don't get a job, God forbid... perfect example of the government destroying the opportunity to prosper, not providing a helping hand.  They MAKE people dependent on them and then keep them down.

I am not stupid enough to think I'm changing anybody's mind here... just venting because I DO see the light at the end of the tunnel and it's an oncoming train and I can't do anything about it.  America has lost its compass.

FU-

You said "They MAKE people dependent on them and then keep them down."

EXACTLY!  I have said this in one form or another in the past.  If the people that were dependant (not the truely needy, the folks that have become addicted to the gov. handouts) suddenly found work was rewarding the liberal party would disapear in one generation.  

Unlike the dope pushers, the first one is free..and the second...and the third.......Heck, it isn't like it comes out of the politicians pockets.  Run low on money, rais taxes.

-P.

stevegeebe wrote on Aug 13^th, 2008 at 7:59am:

You tube=> Freedom to Fascism Also check out "We the People Foundation" Take your BP meds first. Steve G

Thank you, Steve!

If you folks dont believe this trailer then go to Youtube and watch parts 1,2,3,4,5 and so on!

Fubar is so fucking RIGHT on this!

WATCH DAMIT!>:(

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The Democrats' attempts at one party rule pales to insignificance when compared to Newt Gingrich's "Compact For (On) America." It was a nasty attempt to get even for 40 years of largely Democratic Congresses. Here we are again. What a shame that our politicians do everything short of planting car bombs on each other. We have no legislators. We have election machines run by lobbyists that vie to be guests on Larry King to peddle bad political writing.

I'd like the world to be just like what you say, Fubar. It's something I was certain would come to pass. I was never so disappointed that my William F. Buckley introduction to politics via "Up From Liberalism" (I still have the book) couldn't work in our end of the 20th century. Unfortunately, greed at unheard of levels since the 1880s has made it impossible. Years ago, you could usually handle medical expenses if you gave it a try. Today, unless you are wealthy or have unbelievable insurance, families are ruined in a few days trying to pay medical expenses. I don't see it getting better on its own. Socialized medicine is the only thing that I can see that has a chance. I wish it weren't so. Oddly, it will come about in a large part as a backlash against drug company Scrooge McDucks. They are their own worst enemies. The well is dry.

Oh.....relying on modern charities....even some Christian ones, isn't something I would bet on. I'm not impressed with all those in charge. There is a lot of misconduct and money going the wrong way.

I love this country and would love it more if we could knock off being tough guys that are mostly only tough on ourselves.

Why is it that those that call themselves conservatives forget progressivism? Theodore Roosevelt Republicans look a little brighter to me. You have to wonder what the Bullmoose Party would have to put up with today.

Charlie [/size]

This thread is just as bad as the partisan infighting in the capitol building in DC.

We as Americans need to get back to basics and start voting for the right man for the job even if that guy may be a little left.

I have and will always be an independent voter and patriot of the freedom to do so!

I personally don’t give a shit if the guy disagrees with my philosophy as long as he does what the common man who put him there wants him to do.

Rolo……… ::)

Those were the days, Rolo

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Paul98 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2008 at 2:22pm:

Obama was mentored by a communist and he has learned well.  (Frank Marshall Davis)  Obama's voting reccord is one of the most liberal in congress.  These facts...

Here is where I get stuck, facts.  Facts shouldn't be so debatable but whether Davis was any card-carrying member is not a fact.  Nor is it any fact Davis was a mentor to Obama.

Kevin_M wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 2:40am:

Paul98 wrote on Aug 13th, 2008 at 2:22pm: Obama was mentored by a communist and he has learned well.  (Frank Marshall Davis)  Obama's voting reccord is one of the most liberal in congress.  These facts... Here is where I get stuck, facts.  Facts shouldn't be so debatable but whether Davis was any card-carrying member is not a fact.  Nor is it any fact Davis was a mentor to Obama.

Obama has stated that Davis was a close friend and mentor when he was young.  I do not have the refrence to such but I have read it from multiple sources.  This aside, look at Obama's voting reccord.

-P.

Paul98 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 6:45am:

Obama has stated that Davis was a close friend and mentor when he was young.

Not really though, Obama never stated anything of the kind.  

wrote on Aug 13^th, 2008 at 10:57pm:

This thread is just as bad as the partisan infighting in the capitol building in DC. We as Americans need to get back to basics and start voting for the right man for the job even if that guy may be a little left. I have and will always be an independent voter and patriot of the freedom to do so! I personally don’t give a shit if the guy disagrees with my philosophy as long as he does what the common man who put him there wants him to do. Rolo……… ::)

Amen to that Rolo

May be a little left?

Seriously?  What, then, would you define as 'far' left?

This is exactly why the next election scares the bejesus out of me.  Our educational system and media have convinced our youth (and a good amount of non-youth) that the 'far left' is a cuddly kitten, ready to give you pleasure and sustenance for the rest of your days.

Pawns.

Freedom is in peril.

Kevin_M wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 9:49am:

Paul98 wrote on Aug 14th, 2008 at 6:45am: Obama has stated that Davis was a close friend and mentor when he was young. Not really though, Obama never stated anything of the kind.

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-P.  

All references to this lead back to Cliff Kincaid.  The article wonders why big media doesn't pick up the story.  Kincaid is highly ignorable, he has a problem with truth when it interferes with the duties he is paid to do.  It's a nice paste, paperclip, staple, and rubberband relationship he's concocted, unsurprisingly an unsubstantiated one.
 With sources like blogs and communists, far be it for any propaganda to be inherent during U.S. election time.

Obama never stated anything of the kind.

Learning something is true allows less levity than having the desires of belief construed, which is Kincaid's job.

Wow, Paul... What a list of columnists! It takes real work to find writers that fit right in with Ann Coulter.....but this bunch has it down.

Obama knows a commie? So what? I know a dozen Nazis, white supremacists, a Klansman or two....hard to pin them down...and some other really unpleasant types. These guys are serious and are hard to turn off. Some I've met at gun and antique shows. For all these years, I've managed to disappoint them all.

Anyway, It's been 50 years since calling someone a commie was very effective. It may have the effect of changing as many votes from the far right to the left. It's old, just like what's left of the bunch that tries to convince us that they have something to do with the GOP. If they want to pull in some new voters, they'll have to dump their pandering to the Pat Robertson types. It's old too and younger voters aren't interested in the really boring society they would like us to be.

Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson of Nuremburg fame, wrote in the majority that the Jehovahs Witnesses' have the right to not have the shit beaten out of them or run out of town for ignoring demands of patriotic display. They were often assaulted, and beaten by "patriots," in the 1930s and 40s. He said that the First Amendment actually encourages religion but no American government may define what's orthodox. How nice it would be to hear this kind of sense from Washington today......I get wound up.....

Don't worry too much about the far left. Voters won't put up with anything not connected to reality. The coming election shows this exactly as the far right has gone way off the deep end in just about everything they do.

Charlie

Charlie wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 6:33pm:

Obama knows a commie? So what? I know a dozen Nazis, white supremacists, a Klansman or two....hard to pin them down...and some other really unpleasant types. These guys are serious and are hard to turn off.

But, have any of them opened their house to hold a fund raiser for you?

Whats that guys name that was a member of "The weathermen"?

You know, the cop killing group!

Thats Obamas buddy, lives right up the street from him! ;)

Still sounds like the 50s. It probably works with some of the boomers but this kind of thing is losing ground.

Charlie

Charlie wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 7:01pm:

Still sounds like the 50s. It probably works with some of the boomers but this kind of thing is losing ground. Charlie

If that was meant for me, Charlie.......it dont answer shit about what I asked!

If not, cool  8-)

Charlie,

I would have to agree with you about the commie slinging.  It deid in the 50's and 60's.  However, given Obama's voting reccord and his close associations and the people he surrounds himself with I would have to say he is on the far left of the dial.  One does not associate with un-like people.  Ya think Bill Gates rubbs elbows with the likes of Sonny Barger?  Did Charles Manson schmooze with Ted Kenedy?  

Judge a guy by the piers he has for friends.  It usually is pretty accurate.  

-P.

To bad you dont have broadband, Charlie. You wont be able to watch this documentery on Obamas friend.......try googeling "the weather underground".

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They killed a cop here in Mass that had 13 kids!!

Paul98 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 8:04pm:

...I would have to say he is on the far left of the dial.

This is what I gather from posts here.




Here's debatable case, difficult to comprehend and by his own accounts and actions, it would not appear so.  Guilt by association becomes not so rigid a thought.


Quote:

Robert Oppenheimer: Oppenheimer’s brother Frank, Frank’s wife Jackie, Oppenheimer’s own wife Kitty Oppenheimer (widow of Communist political commissar Joe Dallet, killed in the Spanish Civil War), his mistress, Jean Tatlock, and his landlady were all active members of the Communist Party. In addition, several of Oppenheimer’s graduate students at Berkeley, including Joe Weinberg, Giovanni Rossi Lomanitz, David Bohm and Philip Morrison were Communist Party members. The FBI under J. Edgar Hoover had been following his activities since before the war, when he showed Communist sympathies...

All this before he was chosen and succeeded unparalleled as the scientific director of the Los Alamos lab for the Manhattan Project.  

and after the war...


Quote:

In 1947, Oppenheimer... took up the directorship of the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, New Jersey. He later held Albert Einstein's old position of senior professor of theoretical physics.

The article is full of accusations all the way down, but attempts to make a definite call on him is hard to understand.  In any event, his security clearance was revoked about a day before it expired.  Big 50's stuff.

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Wiki is the last site I would quote.

A German dude emailed me and asked me to get ahold of Fletcher so Wiki could use one of his CH drawings (Wiki insisted).

When I could not contact Fletcher I told the German dude that I thought Fletcher would want his drawing there........thats all it took to get that drawing on Wiki.

I dont trust anything on that site, if I can second hand ok for that drawing to go up.....its all shit to me!

Yeah but much of it I've read elsewhere in books.  Wiki's convenient for posting purposes.  I'm not typing a whole damn story.   ;)

Oh for crying out loud will you lot go and google some porn sites and shut up!!!! This thread is coming back again and again like a bad smell and if that isn't bad enough I don't even have to READ it to HEAR it!!!

Enough already - go and go blind - PLEASE!!!!  ::)

I had no idea that you were such a geezer Jonny :o...The Weather Underground is more my generation.

As to answering your question. Not gonna do it. That's what the far right does: Since their ideas are antique, they "Swift Boat" the opposition since it's all they have. If it were a serious story and dangerous to the country, you can bet that even all the Obama-loving media would be screaming it every 15 minutes.  Nothing would bring out flaccid politicos like that story and their job is to sell erectile dysfunction pills. All seriousness aside, our media.....sadly and dangerously..... are largely owned by business that would like to get at Obama with something like this. It must not make the grade.

Charlie

Blimey, we're in trouble now.

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Charlie

wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 11:20am:

May be a little left? Seriously?  What, then, would you define as 'far' left?

A little left = I agree a woman should have the right to choose because the people have voted on the issue and that is that.

Way left (Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid) = Chop them up in the third trimester and use the parts to make soylent green!

Rolo... :(

Edit to add: Obama would just leave the poor baby to die in a dumpster! What a companionate man he is. Obamanation any one? How could we as a nation be proud to have a jerk like that at the helm running the ship aground? >:(

Charlie wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 9:19pm:

I had no idea that you were such a geezer Jonny :o...The Weather Underground is more my generation. As to answering your question. Not gonna do it. That's what the far right does: Since their ideas are antique, they "Swift Boat" the opposition since it's all they have. If it were a serious story and dangerous to the country, you can bet that even all the Obama-loving media would be screaming it every 15 minutes.  Nothing would bring out flaccid politicos like that story and their job is to sell erectile dysfunction pills. All seriousness aside, our media.....sadly and dangerously..... are largely owned by business that would like to get at Obama with something like this. It must not make the grade. Charlie

I love discussions of political nature with you Charlie. :-*  Obama is the media's golden boy.  He is untouchable on many levels to the main stream media.   The Dems got a winner in him and I feel he will win the election.

Now Charlie, speaking of the commie..cold war stuff, :D remember when you were a kid and they had air raid drills in school?  Public schools in NY, back in the late 50's and early 60's had them.  Scared the shit out of me when I was ~6 years old.  They used to have the "atomic bomb"  safety drills.  LOL.  Head against the wall with hands covering your head.  That will stop them gamma rays!!!  LOL.

-P.
ps, I'm slightly less geezerly than mean old Charlie....not by much and I think my conservative bend slingshots me way in front  of him in the mean department. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 9:15pm:

Oh for crying out loud will you lot go and google some porn sites and shut up!!!! This thread is coming back again and again like a bad smell and if that isn't bad enough I don't even have to READ it to HEAR it!!! Enough already - go and go blind - PLEASE!!!!  ::)

Porn is not as much fun as talking politics! :o  Actually Helen, I can honestly say that I have never viewed porn, looked at a neekid woman, touched my self, or even opened my eyes while takeing a shower.  I sit on a rock hard bench in a Quaker meeting house for 12 hours on sundays and never say naughty words ;D

I have a really nice bridge down in NYC that I think you can afford.  How cool would it be if you really owned the Brooklyn Bridge?  Ya could charge $ for the folks that used it!!!  I'll sell it to you for ....say 5k  

-P.

damn what a long thread this is :D

-johnny- wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 10:16pm:

damn what a long thread this is :D

That's because it's damned near impossible to sway people to your own side of the political spectrum.

It's kind of like pissing into the wind - you'll get some immediate relief, but it ends up sucking ten times as bad because you get it all over yourself.

If only I could have held it....

I really wish I could write someone else in, but I know that I'd just tilt everything to the worst side (whatever that might be).

Charlie wrote on Aug 14^th, 2008 at 9:19pm:

I had no idea that you were such a geezer Jonny :o...The Weather Underground is more my generation. As to answering your question. Not gonna do it. That's what the far right does: Since their ideas are antique, they "Swift Boat" the opposition since it's all they have. If it were a serious story and dangerous to the country, you can bet that even all the Obama-loving media would be screaming it every 15 minutes.  Nothing would bring out flaccid politicos like that story and their job is to sell erectile dysfunction pills. All seriousness aside, our media.....sadly and dangerously..... are largely owned by business that would like to get at Obama with something like this. It must not make the grade. Charlie

Right... Next you're going to tell me that McCain is the media's darling.  Sorry Charlie, the reason we are talking about it is because the story has *enough* legs to get past the media blockade of anything that isn't effusive praise for the coming Messiah.

I suppose that's why you said "all seriousness aside".  At least you're honest about that.

Mark my words... Clinton will get the nomination.  It is inevitable now.

wrote on Aug 15^th, 2008 at 12:47pm:

Mark my words... Clinton will get the nomination.  It is inevitable now.

And there will be blood in the streets because of it.

If.....if....IFFFFFFFFF   Obama were to win (which he won't...sorry) He'd be shot within days of his inauguration. He has no backbone, he's still a "greenhorn", even Jesse Jackson wants to chop his balls off!!!

BTW: Obama does underwater basket weaving in his bathtub.

[smiley=bath.gif]

Quote:

Now Charlie, speaking of the commie..cold war stuff,  remember when you were a kid and they had air raid drills in school?  Public schools in NY, back in the late 50's and early 60's had them.  Scared the shit out of me when I was ~6 years old.  They used to have the "atomic bomb"  safety drills.  LOL.  Head against the wall with hands covering your head.  That will stop them gamma rays!!!  LOL.

I remember this stuff very much. Being the curious Swede that my dad was, we used to keep track of air raid sirens locations. Most of that was because Dad and a passel of pals were in Civil Defense and had those yelllow Civil Defense radios. They practiced more than once a month relaying messages among smaller towns here in south western, NY in the event that communication went out because of Russki air attacks. It was interesting more than scary.....the Cuban missile crisis was a little of both but no one I knew went off the deep end and headed for fallout shelters or shut things down....as is shown on TV or in the movies. Fallout shelters had been around for a long time. The scariest part of that was wataching and waiting what might happen when the Navy intercepted the first Russian ships.  We were all glued to Walter Cronkite back then.  I remember the "Duck and Cover" tv spots.  We camped out under our school desks during drills just like the movies. Every school here had Civil Defense drums of water and other stuff tucked away in cellars all over town as well as many buildings.

It would be fun to look at mid-50s anti-commie tv spots too. Most of these kids here never saw the things.

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As to Obama & Co....... the media surely loves him. His running itself is such history. Poor McCain though. There was a sort of media lovefest in 2000 when he knocked off Bush a couple times. What a shame because it should have been his turn. 2008 is a tough haul for him too but he's stuck with the last 7 years. I liked him too.

Charlie

With all this disagreement, ( I was going to use derision), do any of you feel like you've been herded into fenced off areas?  

It's not until we realize that we are all eating out of the same pasture and that our servants (Government) must eat of the same grass.  They have successfully divided us and have legislated any possibility of another Party.

Wake up America.  You are being screwed.

Steve (I) G

:) ....See that?

Barack is falling apart fast...I guess the worlds troubles cant interupt his vacation......LOL

SWEET!  :D

Jonny......My best guess was that things in the world at the moment, are developing during the Bush administration rather than any of the would be presidents but then what do I know?

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It's all Bush's fault.

It ain't Obama's nor McCain's

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Bush haters give him wayyyy too much credit.

Think about it - how can he be so incompetent and so responsible at the same time?

The truly incompetent can't mess things up that badly.

wrote on Aug 15^th, 2008 at 7:14am:

-johnny- wrote on Aug 14th, 2008 at 10:16pm: damn what a long thread this is :D That's because it's damned near impossible to sway people to your own side of the political spectrum. It's kind of like pissing into the wind - you'll get some immediate relief, but it ends up sucking ten times as bad because you get it all over yourself. If only I could have held it....

thats an excellent point. today i spent the day with my dad and my uncle leon. dad is a die hard teamsters union, democrat. leon is an old school catholic republican. both my dad and my uncle are almost 70 and they can work just as hard as a man in his 20s. the 3 of us have a mutual respect for each other and when we get together, we get alot done. whats our secret? WE DON'T TALK POLITICS

I agree that it's not Bush's fault. Even he can't fuck up everything at once  8-)

It's just time to not let others put Obama or McCain on the defensive, is all. It's done better by Republicans. I think it started when the religious right discovered the term: "family values." Democrats fell hook line and sinker for this little scheme.

It's too bad that all the energy that has gone into bellowing and violence surrounding abortion can't be directed at serious politics. Abortion has wrecked politics over the last 30 or so years.

It seems to have lost some of its pull this time thanks to youngsters.

Charlie

Charlie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2008 at 1:09am:

Abortion has wrecked politics over the last 30 or so years.

It's also ruined the day of a few million babies. :'(

Charlie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2008 at 1:09am:

fuck up

:o Charlie!  I am in shock!  

;D

Not getting into this thing Brew. Yikes!

Charlie

Let me ask a "political" question... about abortion. Why the devil are we arguing it?

Let me say before I start this -- I'm AGAINST abortion in any form or fashion. My REGLIGIOUS beliefs don't permit it and too many people WANT kids for them to be KILLED at will. But that's MY feelings.

Now to the question... the last time I checked, abortion is LEGAL under the constitution (Roe vs Wade), so what difference does it make what a politician THINKS - he/she is bound by the constitution to uphold the LAW. Apparently the Appointed Judges on the Supreme Court are the culprits who declared it LEGAL - shouldn't we be questioning them instead of presidential candidates?

I haven't seen any of the candidates submitting a bill to cancel out abortion lately, so maybe they're just giving lip-service to their BELIEFS - they can say whatever's popular or talk around it. Bill Clinton tried to be honest about it saying it was the law and until it was changed he would uphold it and he got slammed for saying that - but I find fault with his statement - that was his DUTY at the time!

Instead of spending years debating the issue - get it CHANGED - force congress to do something. Then we'd see who stood where for sure.

Hugs BD

Barb - You are 100% correct. It is legal, and it is absolutely guaranteed by the Constitution. Your beliefs are in the majority - a rather significant majority. That's where my beliefs lie as well.

What I cannot fathom is that the lawmakers, law enforcers, and legal interpreters (i.e., legislative, executive, and judicial branches) have allowed it to happen. It is a reflection of the moral bankruptcy to which this once great country of ours has come. But when there is a conflict between the laws of God and the laws of man, well, I know where I come down.

God have mercy on all our souls.

(edited for typos and grammar)

Abortion debate... well, that should lighten things up around here...

Barb, it's being debated because there is a real possibility that the next president will enable a sweeping change in our system by changing the makeup of the Supreme Court.

It's hard for me to understand how anyone can sit back and passively accept the fact that millions of humans are murdered each year, be they in Darfur or in the womb.  But that's me.  Snuffing out a life is murder, plain and simple.  It baffles me that we somehow can justify it, let alone fund it with taxpayer dollars.

What would happen if it were overturned, would really bring out the extremes as it's federal, not state. States that want to keep it can, and some will. I can only imagine what state politics would be like.
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Charlie

Yes, I think it's murder and I find nothing right about abortion, but it IS the law and until the LAW is changed it is still LEGAL.

How many supreme judges will the next president ACTUALLY be able to appoint (that will get approved) and will this even get brought up?

And NO, I don't want my tax money paying for something I consider murder, but until it's changed.....

Like I said, the PEOPLE could bombard congress for an amendment to the constitution to CHANGE it, but that would take a lot of people getting off their butts to do it. And a lot of people in Congress taking a stand (which they aren't likely to do because they might have to SAY where they stand on it).

Hugs BD

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It's rarely said that ammendments are incredibly slow things. They can take decades. A good thing in the long run.

Charlie

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charlie, i must know. were do you find all these funny smiley faces that you've used in this thread ;D

Down five points and sinking fast!.....LMMFAO!!!!!!  [smiley=headbanger.gif]

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There and other links.

It takes some farting around to find stuff sometimes. I keep the ones I appropriated in my own files.

Charlie

Charlie wrote on Aug 20^th, 2008 at 6:25pm:

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Charlie, Charlie, Charlie......A Russian website?.......its so you!....LOL  ;D

Lets have a look at Obamas friends, shall we?

"All information used in this video is publicly availible and credible!"

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How much better can it get?

Barack Obama's 'lost' brother found in Kenya

"The Illinois senator mentions his brother in his autobiography, describing him in just one passing paragraph as a "beautiful boy with a rounded head".

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Obama is a Millionaire.....cant bring your bro to the states?

Elitetest at its best!.......If you cant take care of your family, who do you give a fuck about?

Yourself!

Quote:

Charlie, Charlie, Charlie......A Russian website?.......its so you!....LOL

LOL Jonny. Lots of some pretty creepy porn comes from there too.....not that there's anything wrong with that........ START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Charlie

Can it get any better than this?.....LMMFAO!!!  ;D

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Becareful what you wish for!  ;)

Dont give away our fucking country!  >:(

Charlie wrote on Aug 20^th, 2008 at 10:56pm:

Quote: Charlie, Charlie, Charlie......A Russian website?.......its so you!....LOL LOL Jonny. Lots of some pretty creepy porn comes from there too.....not that there's anything wrong with that........ START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE Charlie

wtf