I've pasted the comments from an email I rec'd from my RC seed supplier. Comments?

We would love to get the word out on these seeds and will give note to START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE for their use of them in treatment of cluster headaches and migraines  by soaking 40-80 seeds ground in coffee grinder 80-120 for extremely pronounced effects!  Over a 24 hour period in red wine. The wine is necessary due to the acids and other natural materials derived from the grapes.  Then strained and consumed. This provides all relief achieved via HBWR Hawaiian baby woodrose without the negative GI  effects and nausea! Also included which may be positive for some and negative for others are the blessing of consciousness expansion and colorful insights! We hope the magic of this plant is recognized in the future as it is magnificent and gentle in comparison to the prior material mentioned!! PS This note is provided for medical research purposes ONLY and

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Thanks Rocky

I'd like to comment on the comments.

Its good to see the recognition for CH by others, unfortunately they still dont understand our needs.

Most sufferers have no desire to attain a high from the RC seed treatment and the reality on doses is between 12 to 35 seeds. 20 would probably be an average.

Everyone will be affected a bit differently with these seeds so be carefull out there. Its also important to read the LSA warnings on the clusterbusters.com site.

Used as a treatment for CH the high effect is nil if taken with care.

Yes you can get high with them just as you can with pharmacy drugs, but what most of us want is to just rid ourselves of the clusters.
Personally I have found that the minimum effective dose is far lower than what they suggest and possibly more effective for treating clusters than a higher dose of seeds.
At the lower doses no high occurs at all, just a cessation of CH.

Secondly it is absolutely not neccesary to soak in wine as yes this may increase the effects but for many clusterheads wine is a terrific trigger. In fact it is necessary to crush the seeds but not necessary to soak them, you could simply dissove them under your tongue once crushed. If soaking is preffered then an ounce or 2 of water works fine, soaked for about 2 hours. Start with warm, not hot and let them sit. As I understand it no further hydrolysis of LSA occurs much after that.

Thirdly if consciousness expansion and colorfull insights are desired then these Rivea Corymbosa seeds are not the answer for that at any dose level in my opinion.

Taken properly many, many clusterheads are living their lives pain free or largely so. Often on single doses with no further medication needed. A few dose as often as just once a month to keep the beast at bay with zero side effects like might be experienced with prescribed drugs wich are taken up to 4 times a day.
More frequent dosing may be required to literally bust a set cycle.

RC Seeds are the most effective treatment I have ever found.

There's a 25% discount if your really cool. 8-)
thebb

Need the skinny here-  not sure if I should start a new thread?

I am seriously thinking of ordering RC Seeds .  Heres my questions- I am a step by step kind of gal- I know bits and pieces have been posted many a time here, but I kind of need it in one spot -  

1.  If I am not in cycle , should I start dosing monthly anyway?  If so , how much and how often?

2.  When I start a cycle,  how much and when?

3.  What is the recommendation of when to redose in cycle if you are still getting hit? and then how much , how often etc.

4.  Should I expect for the entire cycle to possibly be aborted after dosing when a cycle starts?  

5.  About how long does it take after you dose for cycle to peter out?

6.  Does it get worse before it gets better after you dose while in cycle?  meaning should I expect to get hit hard for a couple of days after dosing and then expect it to taper off?  

7.  Are the breakthrough hits after dosing lower on kip scale?

8.  Any hangover effects the next am?

9.  What is better RC or HBR?

10.  How often does anyone have to use triptans to abort after dosing?



Feel free to PM or tell me to start a new thread-  Thanks for the advice in advance!

Kelly

mezza wrote on Aug 28^th, 2008 at 11:27pm:

Need the skinny here-  not sure if I should start a new thread? I am seriously thinking of ordering RC Seeds .  Heres my questions- I am a step by step kind of gal- I know bits and pieces have been posted many a time here, but I kind of need it in one spot -   1.  If I am not in cycle , should I start dosing monthly anyway?  If so , how much and how often? 2.  When I start a cycle,  how much and when? 3.  What is the recommendation of when to redose in cycle if you are still getting hit? and then how much , how often etc. 4.  Should I expect for the entire cycle to possibly be aborted after dosing when a cycle starts?   5.  About how long does it take after you dose for cycle to peter out? 6.  Does it get worse before it gets better after you dose while in cycle?  meaning should I expect to get hit hard for a couple of days after dosing and then expect it to taper off?   7.  Are the breakthrough hits after dosing lower on kip scale? 8.  Any hangover effects the next am? 9.  What is better RC or HBR? 10.  How often does anyone have to use triptans to abort after dosing? Feel free to PM or tell me to start a new thread-  Thanks for the advice in advance! Kelly

I have the same questions.  I've had success with shrooms it the past, but I can never find them. I'm due to start my cycle any day now, so I too would like to try the seeds. Can anyone recommend a reputable online supplier. Preferably seeds not treated with pesticides;)  Which seem to work best?  Thank you all..

Not sure I'm the one to answer these questions. There are many here with more scientific and knowledgable minds. I'll give it a go though.

Remember this that there is no medical or governmental association that will support these methods or the use thereof. So if anyone decides to use the RC seeds does so at their own risk.

Clusterbusters.com has some good information and warnings to read and it is reccomended that an internet search on ololiuqui is done to ascertain any further information on its medicinal use through the ages. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

The answers are an opinion and not real science as that doesnt exist publically yet for these treatments. You are essentially self medicating and only you know if its the way to go. There are no doctors to quide you but many experienced users of this alt. med exist here and on clusterbusters.com and can provide some experiencial input when asked.

1.  If I am not in cycle , should I start dosing monthly anyway?  If so , how much and how often?

A. Not neccesarily. As clusterheads most of us can recognize the basic pre-symptoms of a cycle to come. This is probably the best time to dose with RC seeds as it is then that the best chances to abort the entire cycle happens.
As stated on the CB site its best to start with the lowest dose possible. (8-12 seeds) This is to test for safety and how the seeds may affect you. If no adverse effects then its probably ok to up your dose to 15- 25 seeds in a few days.

2.  When I start a cycle,  how much and when?

A. We are all different therefore the answer to that question cannot be assumed. One must first find their own effective dose.
An average dose is between 15-25 seeds while in cycle. Some find good results with just 8-12 seeds.

3.  What is the recommendation of when to redose in cycle if you are still getting hit? and then how much , how often etc.

A. The standard reccomendation is to wait 5-7 days between dosing. To my knowledge this was due to the "closed door effect". That is the point where it was thought the serotonin or 5ht receptors were closed off by the LSA and no futher effect can be felt from the medication until the original dose wore off.
I have found it ok to dose again within say 24 hours with no further need for suffering if the hits return. Though I have dosed more often, as close as 8 hours apart, I dont reccomend it unless your getting hit very hard.

4.  Should I expect for the entire cycle to possibly be aborted after dosing when a cycle starts?

No and yes . This is where we are all different. Once you have found your effective dose you should be aware of some fairly immediate changes in your CH. Some never dose again others may require several doses.

5.  About how long does it take after you dose for cycle to peter out?

A. Again we are all different and it would also depend on the severity and frequency of the hits.
My opinion is that a balancing act must occur in the chemicals in your body/mind. Too little LSA and too little results. Too much LSA may have an adverse effect as well. THis opinion is often disputed.

6.  Does it get worse before it gets better after you dose while in cycle?  meaning should I expect to get hit hard for a couple of days after dosing and then expect it to taper off?

A. If you feel the need to wait 7 days before dosing again you will probably get hit. But generally no harder than before the seeds. A few hours pain free allways makes the next hit feel harder.
If you heed your own symptoms you can often abort an attack with just a few seeds (once the treatment has begun) dissolved and ready or place a pinch under the tongue to dissolve and within 5-15 minutes the attack could be gone.

7.  Are the breakthrough hits after dosing lower on kip scale?

A. More often than not.

8.  Any hangover effects the next am?

A. Yes if you look very hard for them. A slight energy loss may occur.

9.  What is better RC or HBR?

Though I know very little about HBWR seeds, there are large advantages to RC Seeds. Generally no gastro-intestinal discomfort occurs with the RC seeds and none of the other uncomfortable feelings that may come with HBWR. Others can input on that.

10.  How often does anyone have to use triptans to abort after dosing?

Can't remember now but I believe LSA is a tryptophan. Never ever mix triptans, tryptophans.
If an abort is neccessry than a small dose of seeds or Oxygen if it works for you is the best way to abort.

fiftyamp wrote on Aug 29^th, 2008 at 4:44pm:

[quote author=3C342B2B30510 link=1219874546/0#3 date=1219980423] Can anyone recommend a reputable online supplier. Preferably seeds not treated with pesticides;)  Which seem to work best?  Thank you all..

Good service fast delivery.
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From Rockys original post;
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MJ-

thanks alot for taking the time to answer my questions.  It's great to have it all captured in one place - I am going to print it off-  


Kelly

thanks as well mJ i too learn much from this post. coach bill

Nice job MJ.

A couple of notes of interest.
Soaking in a couple ounces of water, for an hour or two, is all that is needed. One problem with these seeds is that there can be a wide difference in the amounts of LSA, from seed to seed. The doses (numbers of seeds) that are discussed, are based upon the assumption that the seeds *you* have are at the high end of the spectrum. So, it is possible that you may take a dose and feel very little, if your seeds have a low concentration of LSA. DO NOT assume that your seeds are low in content and up the dose. You very well may have seeds with a high content and you really don't need, or want, to exceed the doses that are discussed.
Start low and work your way up, if needed.

IMHO, the HBWR seeds are just as effective, and if prepared properly, do not have more negative side effects. The difference is that the RC seeds are crushed and soaked whole, including the husk. They are similar in size to poppy seeds, just slightly larger. The HBWR seeds are larger, (pea sized) and have a harder husk. This husk must be cracked or cut open and the pulp inside is removed, crushed, and soaked. The gastrointestinal problems, as well as other possible problems, come mostly from the substances found in the husk.

Once you begin any of the treatments using psychedelics, the aim is to completely avoid any of the triptans. Number one, they shouldn't be combined, as MJ noted. Two, for best results in breaking the cycle, stopping the triptans, before, during and after, is important.

Best to treat any remaining attacks with 02. Most people find that once the triptans have been stopped, and after the first dose of psychedelics, all that is needed is 02 for the attacks that remain. Most attacks that follow will hopefully be both less intense and shorter in duration. Many people that had poor success with 02 in the past, find that it works very well in aborting any remaining hits.

Bobw

Quote:

Once you begin any of the treatments using psychedelics, the aim is to completely avoid any of the triptans. Number one, they shouldn't be combined, as MJ noted. Two, for best results in breaking the cycle, stopping the triptans, before, during and after, is important. Best to treat any remaining attacks with 02. Most people find that once the triptans have been stopped, and after the first dose of psychedelics, all that is needed is 02 for the attacks that remain. Most attacks that follow will hopefully be both less intense and shorter in duration. Many people that had poor success with 02 in the past, find that it works very well in aborting any remaining hits.

I'll second that.  Before I started dosing with rc seeds, I was dependant on triptans just to get through the day.  I was getting hit constantly and the triptans didn't always work.  I now know that I was experiencing rebound attacks.  The hits were always 7-10 on the kip scale and 02 didn't always knock them out.  Life was not good back then.

Since dosing with rc seeds, I still get hit occasionally, but I do not have to schedule my day around the ch.  I can go up to two weeks without getting hit and when I do, 02 knocks it out right away.  No ch above 7 on the kip scale since dosing.  Life is good again.  :)

Beth

Awesome MJ. Now that is why I come here. Ten deep bows. Thank you for that response.

Quote:

Not sure I'm the one to answer these questions.

Your modesty confirms your character.
all the best
thebb

Thanks BBz you could have probably written that yourself.

Glad you piped in Bob W and Beth.

The detox off of most other medications is the one thing I neglected to mention as an integral part of the treatment for optimal results.

I have been considering seeds as well.  This thread has been very helpful.  Just one question though.  Do RC seeds carry with them the risk of dependency?  I'm guessing no, since they are not used to obtain a high.  Just wondered if you all knew for sure though.

Thank you!

Jeannie

Jean
No dependency issues. Make sure you get the viable untreated type.
Rivea Corymbosa
all the best
thebb

Jeannie,

No, no dependency.

I began taking a monthly "maintenance" dose of 11 to 12 seeds before my cycle was due.

Then, cycle came and I dosed with 35 seeds, and another 35 seeds five days later.  Knocked the cycle completely out,

Even with 35 seeds, I've not experienced any "high", it just makes me sleepy.

I've since stopped taking the monthly 12 seed dose, relying that, should a CH cycle try to start, hitting it with the 35 seed dose kills the cycle.  This appears to be working just fine.

The very low dose of rc seeds we take to combat CH is not enough to create a dependency.

Sandy

MJ wrote on Aug 30^th, 2008 at 3:01am:

[quote author=3A353A28253D312C5C0 link=1219874546/0#4 date=1220042695][quote author=3C342B2B30510 link=1219874546/0#3 date=1219980423] Can anyone recommend a reputable online supplier. Preferably seeds not treated with pesticides;)  Which seem to work best?  Thank you all..

Good service fast delivery.
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From Rockys original post;
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I've learned a lot from this thread!  

Just curious about the two sites offering the seeds.  One packages by grams and the other is by count.  Are they about the same, price wise?  Ima gonna order today!

Thanks, Cindy

I'm curious about the detox period.  I'm in the middle of a particularly nasty bout, and I've stopped taking the verapamil and the lithium, but I still use imitrex for the acute attacks (at least one dose a day).  I'm trying to stick to using only O2 but, well, pain sucks so I reach for the syringe every now and then.

My question is:  What is the minimum amount of time one should take between an imitrex shot and dosing on RC seeds?  I'm very keen to try this as I haven't had a PF day since August 12.

I would suggest at least 3 to 5 days for imitrex.
all the best
thebb
Bump :)

Do the "RC" seeds lose their strength over time?
Seeds are 14 months old.
Ive been getting hit like crazy.
30 seeds five days apart no help  :'(.
Maybe I should try again...............life really sucks again.........

Billy kid

Yes the seeds do appear to lose there potency over time.

Not sure what would be the optimal storage conditions to reduce this.

I am using seeds that are over 2 years old and they very definately have lost potency. Its also hard to know how fresh they were when purchased.

The abilities of the seeds may still be there but an increase of the dosage from fresh original may be needed.
Often I dose again the very next day if the first treatment doesnt extinquish the symptoms.

New RC Seeds are cheap. Hope you get some relief.

They make those little packets that eat O2 (the ones they put in beef jerky to keep it fresh) that would probably help in the indol ring break down which is most likely the cause of time vs potency. (just a wild thought)

Rolo.. ;)

wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 3:34pm:

They make those little packets that eat O2 (the ones they put in beef jerky to keep it fresh) that would probably help in the indol ring break down which is most likely the cause of time vs potency. (just a wild thought) Rolo.. ;)

Dam site or comcast won’t let me edit so to add; that’s why DHE comes in an ampoule. :)

l'll chime in with my 2 cents.  Most important thing to remember when detoxing.......DO IT SLOWLY.  Trying to rush through it in order to take your first dose, could prove to be a big problem.  Think about it....your taking say, lithium and verapamil for years.  Suddenly you stop.  Your body is not going to adjust as quick as you would like it to,
TAKE YOUR TIME AND BE PATIENT.

I am glad someone brought up the age of your seeds.  I am beginning to wonder if mine are losing effectiveness as well

Getting a high..........never felt even a hint of a high.  

And one more thing....I agree with the soaking in only 2 oz.  These things taste like shit.  The less water, the better

Very good point Kevmed! I detox'ed slowly for two weeks before I tried the seeds and they gave me promising results for a month until Mr kickass returned to my chronic CH life. :-/  All are different when it comes to the beast unfortunately

Rolo.. ;)

wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 5:08pm:

Very good point Kevmed! I detox'ed slowly for two weeks before I tried the seeds and they gave me promising results for a month until Mr kickass returned to my chronic CH life. :-/  All are different when it comes to the beast unfortunately Rolo.. ;)

This thread won't let you edit! >:(

My RC experience:

-I ordered from Iamshaman, and they will tell you to store them in a cool, dry place and that they lose efficacy after 6-9 months.
-the hallucinogenic drugs (LSA, LSD, and psilocybin) are all classified by the FDA as ANTI-ADDICTIVE.
-On clusterbusters.com, there's a big long list of contra-indicated medications; I suggest printing out the list and bringing to your doctor.  My doc couldn't endorse this method, of course, but she gave me a detox schedule for the meds I was on at the time.
-if you do your homework on clusterbusters.com, there's tons of good info and links; I wish they would clean it up a bit, because you do have to hunt around.  There's at least 2 different "LSA" info pages.  But it's worth it.
It's working for me so far! :)
and check this out:
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Don't forget to keep a detailed journal!  this is important data for the ongoing research!  Good luck all!  :)

Just got 200 seeds today in the mail from Iamshaman.  I plan on doing a trial dose this Sat. night after the kid goes to bed.  I'm currently in remission, but due for a cycle in late Jan. early Feb.
I'm starting with 12-20 seeds crushed in a couple ounces of water for 2 hours.  Then it's time to drink the mixture.  I'm not looking for the high, but if it happens, i'm prepared since I fooled around with shrooms in the past for fun (the college years with Pink Floyd in the background, lol).  If I skip a cycle, i'll be thrilled and will definitely inform you all of my progress and obviously continue my efforts with the rc seeds.  

Wishing you all PFD's!

Peace,
Chad

Try a cheep peper mill, works great. Good luck...Rolo ;)

well this is the first I have heard of these seeds.  the question Ihave is how to digest them?  with a hot cup of tea or with food or just on an empty stomach and deal with the shitty tast for a while?

and curious, although it dont much matter when trying to get rid of chs, but i wonder if the drug can be detected in a drug test..  for those of us who may have required random surprise piss tests..

but Im about to order some of these since im off work for a few months anyway and my cycle is about half way through..

Thanks

lacuna wrote on Dec 4^th, 2008 at 4:35am:

well this is the first I have heard of these seeds.  the question Ihave is how to digest them?

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Quote:

but Im about to order some of these since im off work for a few months anyway and my cycle is about half way through..

If you are nearing the end of this cycle, it's often suggested to just let it take its course since you need to "detox" from current meds first plus it can take weeks before you find the right dose to break the cycle.

lacuna wrote on Dec 4^th, 2008 at 4:35am:

well this is the first I have heard of these seeds.  the question Ihave is how to digest them?  with a hot cup of tea or with food or just on an empty stomach and deal with the shitty tast for a while? and curious, although it dont much matter when trying to get rid of chs, but i wonder if the drug can be detected in a drug test..  for those of us who may have required random surprise piss tests.. but Im about to order some of these since im off work for a few months anyway and my cycle is about half way through.. Thanks

Trusting you have read all the warnings and info at clusterbusters.com. our best source for safety. (Thankyou Pinkfloyd et. al..)

Do not soak in hot liquids. high temperatures may destroy the beneficial LSA and other good stuff.
Its best to injest on an empty stomach, no fatty foods etc.. for best results.

I personally would not hesitate to try them before your out of cycle. Just might stop the whole thing for an earlier exit. Why suffer if you dont have to.
It can be a bit more difficult to stop an onging cycle though it can be done easy enough.

I also wouldnt worry too much about the drug test as most do not test for LSA and even if they do, the medication is pretty well gone in a few days or less from the system.

Of course if testing is a strong concern then you should find out more from your employer and their test site as to what they test for.

for review