What do you get when you cross a Hockey Mom from Alaska with a long time, inside the beltway, good old boy politician in a debate?














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It's a whole new game and the libs are in deep trouble...  The Obamanoid strategists had to scrap Plan A when Sarah Palin delivered a flawless and inspiring performance that sliced into the liberal platform with a laser knife and a smile...  

"You know how to tell the difference between a Hockey Mom and a pit bull...   Lipstick"  

They're now on Plan B...  Running her record to ground with a fine tooth comb...  Watch the liberal media nit-pic every detail of her acceptance speech in an effort to diminish an awesome performance...  Some of them have already messed their depends...  Howard Fineman, Newsweek's senior Washington Correspondent and columnist, calls Sarah Palin a "Heat Seeking Missile...  "

Oh My...  What a Night...  It's going to get even better...  

You hit that right on the head!  I felt the swelling of patriotism!  Good choice!

WooHoo!

It IS a whole new ballgame. I think people are hungry for someone who's "just like them," people who have known adversity and who have shown themselves to be calm, cool decision makers despite that adversity.

I'm starting to sense a Walter-Mondale-like drubbing in the making.

Three of my favorite lines from Mrs. Palin's speech last night:

Quote:

"I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities. I might add that in small towns, we don't quite know what to make of a candidate who lavishes praise on working people when they are listening, and then talks about how bitterly they cling to their religion and guns when those people aren't listening." "Listening to [Obama] speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform - not even in the state senate … This is a man who can give an entire speech about the wars America is fighting, and never use the word "victory" except when he's talking about his own campaign. But when the cloud of rhetoric has passed ... when the roar of the crowd fades away ... when the stadium lights go out, and those Styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot - what exactly is our opponent's plan? What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger ... take more of your money ... give you more orders from Washington ... and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world. America needs more energy ... our opponent is against producing it. Victory in Iraq is finally in sight ... he wants to forfeit." "My fellow citizens, the American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of "personal discovery." This world of threats and dangers is not just a community, and it doesn't just need an organizer."

If "just like me" you mean that I have a knocked up 17 year old daughter.....

yeah it shows they practice what they preach by being pro-life. I wouldn't suspect anything else, would you? That is the easy part.

and to me it does show the inability of the extreme right to acknowledge that while abstinence is the best policy, it is not a realistic one that works today. Too bad no one taught this girl how to use a condom.

The bottom line is her kid made one of the worst mistakes a human can make. The can paint this as showing what a great family they are sticking together and whatnot but the bottom line is that this is support against their stance on abstinence as the only policy for birth control, for religious reasons. What does God want less? A kid using condoms or a kid having a child, underage (barely old enough to drive a car), and out-of-wedlock?

If this was a dem the gop would have painted her as a drug addelled sleeper by now....

Looks like ole Joe is so scared hes hitting the sauce....LOL  ;D

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My fellow Americans:

As your future President I want to thank my supporters, for your mindless support of me, despite my complete lack of any legislative achievement, my pastor's relations with Louis Farrakhan and Libyan dictator Moamar Quadafi, or my blatantly leftist voting record while I present myself as some sort of bi-partisan agent of change.

I also like how my supporters claim my youthful drug use and criminal behavior somehow qualifies me for the Presidency after 8 years of claiming Bush's youthful drinking disqualifies him. Your hypocrisy is a beacon of hope shining over a sea of political posing.

I would also like to thank the Kennedy's for coming out in support of me. There's a lot of glamour behind the Kennedy name, even though JFK started the Vietnam War, his brother Robert illegally wiretapped Martin Luther King, Jr. and Teddy killed a female employee with whom he was having an extra marital affair and who was pregnant with his child. And I'm not going anywhere near the cousins, both literally and figuratively. And I'd like to thank Oprah Winfrey for her support. Her love of meaningless empty platitudes will be the force that propels me to the White House.

Americans should vote for me, not because of my lack of experience or achievement , but because I make people feel good.Voting for me causes some white folk to feel relieved of their imagined, racist guilt. I say things that sound meaningful, but don't really mean anything because Americans are tired of things having meaning. If things have meaning, then that means you have to think about them.

Americans are tired of thinking. It's time to shut down the brain, and open up the heart. So when you go to vote, remember don't think, just do. And do it for me.

Thank You.

Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.

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I stayed up to watch her speech.  I wanted to see if she could connect with me, or just spew stuff like a puppet.  I want to say, she did connect and definately did not disappoint me on the latter.

On a side note, I will say, that I can most surely see now, John McCain is NOT George Bush.  I always wondered if all Republicans were alike and I can see now they are not.

I've never been so interested in politics as I am now.

:)

Quote:

The bottom line is her kid made one of the worst mistakes a human can make.

And this puts Sarah in  a bad light... how?

She has a real family with real issues.  Just like families from California to Nebraska and North Carolina.

Her daughter made a bad choice... and is dealing with it straight up!
To drag her daughter into the debate on whether Sarah can govern is pathetic and weak.

Slammy 8-)

superhawk2300 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 8:04am:

The bottom line is her kid made one of the worst mistakes a human can make.

I was 19 and unmarried when I got pregnant with my daughter Lily.  I will tell you for CERTAIN, that she is NOT one of the worst mistakes I have ever made.  She is the BEST thing that could have ever happened to me!!!

superhawk, your comment really pissed me off and I find it HIGHLY offensive! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

As a father who had 'The talk" with my 16 year old daughter after learning she was having sex with her boyfriend, I think I am in the majority of most fathers (if they have the guts to be real parents and talk straight up with their kids).  I didn't think it would change much but at least she knew I disapproved.
That daughter is now a 30 year old 5th grade science teacher.  She's married to a great guy and trying to have a family (had a miscarriage a couple of weeks ago).  She is, in my eyes, the perfect daughter.
I can see the Palin family feels the same of their daughter.  Does my heart good to see a family pull together in hard times.
Till last night I felt sorry for them, having a Down Syndrome baby.  Now I see how lucky that child is to have them as parents.


BTW - Rudy G had me rolling on the floor!

superhawk2300 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 8:04am:

If "just like me" you mean that I have a knocked up 17 year old daughter..... yeah it shows they practice what they preach by being pro-life. I wouldn't suspect anything else, would you? That is the easy part. and to me it does show the inability of the extreme right to acknowledge that while abstinence is the best policy, it is not a realistic one that works today. Too bad no one taught this girl how to use a condom. The bottom line is her kid made one of the worst mistakes a human can make. The can paint this as showing what a great family they are sticking together and whatnot but the bottom line is that this is support against their stance on abstinence as the only policy for birth control, for religious reasons. What does God want less? A kid using condoms or a kid having a child, underage (barely old enough to drive a car), and out-of-wedlock? If this was a dem the gop would have painted her as a drug addelled sleeper by now....

I am utterly speechless.

Welllll, in my opinion .... since I have two wonderful nephews who were conceived out of wedlock and I love dearly, I can't fault her for standing by her daughter (that's a family matter and families SHOULD stand by their children).

As to teaching abstinence - I'm FOR that one (it should be taught at home - sex ed should be taken OUT of schools totally as far as I'm concerned - put it back in the home and churches - but I"m from the OLD school where we KNEW BETTER!)

Now as far as being PTA president - I've done that and I have several well worn passports that have been around the world and I KNOW it's hard just talking to the "man on the street" in some countries much less the HEADS of those countries - and I sure don't think I'd be qualified (and I'm pretty confident in my abilities to take on about anything).

I think she's a nice lady and is probably a good governor from all the reports and she makes a great speech, but I think I'll wait and see how she does on the campaign trail before I draw any conclusions about her. Lipstick does wear off eventually....

Hugs BD

superhawk2300 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 8:04am:

Too bad no one taught this girl how to use a condom.

When my daughter turned 16 I taught her how to be a safe, careful driver. She still managed to stuff a Jeep 3 feet in to the back of a month old Audi. Just because a teen has knowledge doesn't mean they'll use it.



Quote:

The bottom line is her kid made one of the worst mistakes a human can make.

I can think of 1000's of mistakes that make this look pale by comparison.....unless you consider robbing a 7-11 at gun point and killing the clerk in the process to be less of a mistake than having unprotected sex with a steady boyfriend.

Like Mel, I find your post offensive. Even Obama has stated that family is off limits. That child has enough to deal with now without being turned into a political football.

B

Lets get a few things straight.

1. My mother was 18 when I was born out of wedlock. I never met my biological father or him me.

2. Both of my kids, while born while I was married, were not planned.

3. It is not I that label having sex as a child and out-of-wedlock a mistake. I was speaking the line of the religious-right, (whichI I am opposed to) to which Sarah belongs to. I myself have had plenty of underage sex out of wedlock.

Mel, I never said the children were mistakes themselves. I can assure you I am the same as you with how I feel toward both of my unplanned children. And you were not legally a child yourself, you were an adult when you made the choice to have sex. And your mother (as far as I know) wasn't part of the relgious-right preaching that abstinence is the best policy to combat teenage unplanned pregnancy.

That being said there isn't a single person alive that can convince me that the religious-right doesn't consider a high school student getting pregnant out-of-wedlock a "mistake". Isn't their message people should not have sex at all until they are married? Much less should kids in school be having sex? If one does these things they "shouldn't" isn't that then deemed a "mistake" or "sin" in their eyes?

So the message is, that when inner-city people get pregnant as children, out of wedlock, it is one of societies big problems. Then come the "Where the hell are the parents?" and "When we do not teach about God in school look at what happens" cries. BUT when someone of means who is pretty and a candidate has a daughter who is underage and pregnant it can only be a sign of goodness and strength.

Reminds me of the Rush hypocracy. For years talk tough on throwing young men who smoke pot in jail and "throw away the key". Then he get busted for one of the most insideious drug crimes (illegal pharms are Russian Mob interest - for sure Rush funded the murder and torture of other humans), and then come the cries for prayers and healing for his "sickness".

As most studies show, the time her daughter got pregnant probably wasn't the first time she made the "mistake" (occording to the RR) of having sex out of wedlock, and there probably was some sort of drugs involved studies would show as well.

If Sarah cannot get her immediate family to follow the party line example, how can I think she can get people 'just like me" (you know, the ones with only one house, a mortgage, and fear of losing their lob in the private sector) in the rest of America to do so?

Hypocrit I say.

[edit for speeling]

Do I care if someone else's daughter is pregnant? No.

Do I care if someone who is running for office thinks that abstinence only sex education is effective and is the only thing that should be taught? Yes.

Do I care if someone running for office thinks that if my wife or daughter gets raped and becomes pregnant, she should have no choice and be forced to carry the rapist's seed to fruition?  Hell Yes! The only word for that policy is tyranny.  We don't need a person in the White House who is so extreme on this issue that they are willing to establish rewards for rape and double-penalties for the victim.  


(Funny that someone who is for Palin would describe her as a hurricane, on the 3 year anniversary of  Katrina, while New Orleans is cleaning up from the destruction of another storm. But maybe the hurricane metaphor is apt.)

From what I gather, this religious right you're talking about, is saying that only abstinence should be taught IN SCHOOL.  Isn't that what this is about?  What should, or should not, be deemed normal school curriculum??

I vote for parental education instead!!!

Are they up to the S's already. :)

Melissa wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 12:49pm:

From what I gather, this religious right you're talking about, is saying that only abstinence should be taught IN SCHOOL.  Isn't that what this is about?  What should, or should not, be deemed normal school curriculum?? I vote for parental education instead!!!

No, the issue of abstinence-only education is not what it is all about. That is less pressing of an issue compared to trying to criminalize abortion in case of rape.  

I think it does make sense to have a medical discussion of conception, contraception, STDs, and other issues in health education classes when kids hit puberty.  Having an effective sex education program is the best way to reduce venereal disease, unwanted pregnancies and abortions.  

monty wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 1:00pm:

I think it does make sense to have a medical discussion of conception, contraception, STDs, and other issues in health education classes when kids hit puberty.  Having an effective sex education program is the best way to reduce venereal disease, unwanted pregnancies and abortions.

I'm a product of that education and I ended up pregnant anyway, and you know WHY?  Because my mom never got up the courage to talk to me about sex and it's consequences.  Her parents were the same way.  All you hear in school is the technical aspects of it all, and it ends up being a big joke anyway. :-/

I am not making that same mistake with my daughters and leaving it up to the schools to educate them.  I'll take on that responsibility myself because it's MY RESPONSIBILITY.

I know not everyone is like me, but why should our taxes go to educating others children on such matters??

You are right that family attitudes, community attitudes, and other things play a role. No classroom curriculum can get close to 100% effective.  But I think the evidence is that a good sex ed curriculum can make a difference over no sex-ed or a curriculum that seeks to advance particular ideologies.  

Sexual behavior is something that 99.9% of people engage in. It has health consequences. As you pointed out, many parents do a poor job with it, as there is the comfort factor.  It should be covered in school, just as we cover the issues related to nutrition, drug use, and other health issues. I think that every parent should teach their kids about the dangers of dealing with strangers on the internet, but I think schools need to do that too. Don't you?

I like everything about her and her family.

You talk to your kids till your blue in the face about sex, they are going to do what they want to when they fall in love. My daughter was on birth control when she  found out she was going to have JD. Ask JD or Deveny if either one of them regret it? Their answer is no.
I am a Christian and it is a sin, but the Lord understands us being human and he forgives. Just as wifes and husbands forgive each other, and we forgive our children for mistakes. IT'S A HEALTHY FAMILY THAT FORGIVE AND DEALS. That is what I saw last night a healthy family.
OH by the way God wasn't married to Mary but they had a child. ;)

I do think this is one of societies biggest problems.

Just because school doesn't teach them about these issues doesn't mean parents will. There are lots of stuff school teaches that people can agree and disagree about. How come it is only the issues the religious right gets on that become hot-button issues?

You still are correct Mel, (and I am sorry my post offeneded you, I hope you see that was not my intent but highlighting hypocracy was) it is ultimatly the people involved responsibility.

But also a big line of the RR is "personal accountability". Why should our tax money be used to teach these things you asked. Because it is our tax money that will help pay for Sarah's grand-daughter when her daughter files for government assitance.

No republican will complain when that happens but I bet if it was a dem they would re-raise the "kill all welfare" shouts.

I just cannot stand hypocracy. If you have a point fine. At least have thge integrity to live with it if event turn out that you wrong or it goes against you in some unforseen future.

Again if this women is so awesome as people are saying, and she could not make her Party's line work in her own house, what chance does someone who isn't so awesome (i.e. the average american). These people of privialge have all the chances and advantages that most of us do not and she still failed to live the line her people preach. And for that we are supposed to be in awe of her?

And the family thing? Please - ask Chelsey Clinton if they laid off of her. This women's failure in her own house lends directly to her ability to lead our country and is fair game. If she is going ot stand up there and bring up the kid to help show the side she wants to see than it is fair to bring up contrary points - is it not? She opened the dorr..... So far all I see is "do as I say not as I do".

Melissa wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 12:49pm:

From what I gather, this religious right you're talking about, is saying that only abstinence should be taught IN SCHOOL.  Isn't that what this is about?  What should, or should not, be deemed normal school curriculum?? I vote for parental education instead!!!

Sorry Mel, I missed your point.

The SHOULD teach abstinence in school! 100% agree.

But the part that I am highlighting is that the do not want to teach about ANY OTHER means of BC.

Mel, I'm a generation ahead of you. Back in MY day, we didn't have sex education in schools. My parents (mom) explained what I needed to know (we had dogs) and I explained it to my friends who's parents didn't have "the talk" with them.

But we had something known as "peer pressure". Getting pregnant (and I'm not saying that sex didn't happen between teens back in those days) was just something that was an all out "no no". It was a "stigma" that went thru your whole family. I've been out of high school almost 50 years and I can still name about every girl who got pregnant while I was there. There just weren't that many.

I'm saying that we tell kids way to much in schools. On one hand we're telling them "don't do this" and on the other hand we're giving them condoms and telling them to be careful if they do. We're sending mixed messages. And parents don't object to this.

And yes, I brought my son up in a "different" world than I grew up in and I did have the "talk" with him and I never said anything when condoms were on my grocery bill (he usually did the grocery run after he got his drivers license), but I never "approved" and he knew it.

So while people can scoff at the "old days" and old fashioned ideas - they did have some merit in my opinion. But as I said before I have two very "special" nephews who were born out of wedlock and I'd take on anyone who said a damn word about their births or about their mothers.

Hugs BD

BarbaraD wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 1:35pm:

So while people can scoff at the "old days" and old fashioned ideas - they did have some merit in my opinion. But as I said before I have two very "special" nephews who were born out of wedlock and I'd take on anyone who said a damn word about their births or about their mothers. Hugs BD

I understand you sticking up for them, but isn't that in disagreement with the other things you said?   Doesn't the 'stigma' of the 'good ole days' require that we single people out, criticize, and ostracize them? Aren't you really a modernist in disguise?

 ;)

So, it's not the sex act itself that is a mistake, but the choice to carry the result of that act to term that is?

There seem to be a few who know an awful lot about the teachings of the religious right that aren't members of said group.

Experts, all. What a crock of shit.

No Monty that was NOT what I meant.... I said the OLD days had a stigma built in with the peer pressure so we had LESS unwed mothers.

then in another vein (or it was mean as another one) that I had two nephews born out of wedlock (in another generation). I would NEVER turn a child away in MY family and hope to the powers that be that no one else would either.

I have a black nephew also. We're a very ecumentical family. We ACCEPT whatever comes along and that's how it should be because we are a FAMILY.

But I think she accomplished what she intended last night - she pulled the focus away from McCain by turning it on her. Did that one time myself in a Mayor's race and it worked pretty good - we got a new mayor (my candidate). We'll see how this one plays out.

Hugs BD

Melissa wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 1:12pm:

[quote author=21232238354C0 link=1220502099/0#17 date=1220547657] I'm a product of that education and I ended up pregnant anyway, and you know WHY?  Because my mom never got up the courage to talk to me about sex and it's consequences.

Mel.  I find this extremely hard to believe.  At 18 years old, you did not know how babies are made?

I dont think education is the answer, I think parenting is the answer.  You make sure your kid doesnt get pregnant because you don't give them the opportunity to get pregnant.  Same with drugs.  Same with drinking.

BarbaraD wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 5:30pm:

No Monty that was NOT what I meant.... I said the OLD days had a stigma built in with the peer pressure so we had LESS unwed mothers. then in another vein (or it was mean as another one) that I had two nephews born out of wedlock (in another generation). I would NEVER turn a child away in MY family and hope to the powers that be that no one else would either.

Ok - I don't disagree with any of that.  It definitely is a rational and decent response compared to the people who disown an out of wedlock relative or someone in an interracial union.  

My point was that stigmas (to mark or brand someone, aka "The Scarlet Leter") reduced some activity that led to unwanted pregnancies (good), but it increased shotgun weddings and illegal abortions (not so good).  And the stigma comes at a psychological cost - it wouldn't be a deterrent if it wasn't a real penalty for the families who 'transgressed'.  My post had a wink because I didn't really think that you were in favor of it - even though you were harking back to the good ole days.  Or I am still not getting it?      

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 6:12pm:

Mel.  I find this extremely hard to believe.  At 18 years old, you did not know how babies are made?

That's not what I meant!  lol

I meant the emotional consequences, the human side of parenting and just how hard of a job it is and how you have to give up a lot of yourself to do it.

Sarah Palin scares me almost as much as Obama does.  Her stance on abortion, the fact that she thinks the war in Iraq is *blessed* and that our soldiers are *fighting for Jesus*, and let us not forget that ID should be taught in school and sex education should not

I'm beween Barb and Mel and my mama damned sure didn't tell me about sex (her mama died when she was a kid, so she wasn't taught anything).  Luckily enough, the majority of my friends were older.  My daughter has known from a very early age about sex, std's and everything else. She went to parochial school and they started sex ed in the 2nd grade.  They did emphasize abstinence, BUT, students in the higher grades were taught about birth control, still iwth the emphasis on abstinence.   In fact, when they were going over the sect on std's in Home EC (didn't talk about having sex, just the diseases), she had to correct the teacher!

Teaching kids about birth conrol is not tantamount to giving them free reign to have sex.  Hopefully, those that do choose to have sex, will do so with precautions in place.

Mel, did you take precaution and get pregnant anyway?  

Or did you know you might get pregnant but not know the whole scope of what exactly that meant?  

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 6:12pm:

Melissa wrote on Sep 4th, 2008 at 1:12pm: [quote author=21232238354C0 link=1220502099/0#17 date=1220547657] I'm a product of that education and I ended up pregnant anyway, and you know WHY?  Because my mom never got up the courage to talk to me about sex and it's consequences.   Mel.  I find this extremely hard to believe.  At 18 years old, you did not know how babies are made? I dont think education is the answer, I think parenting is the answer.  You make sure your kid doesnt get pregnant because you don't give them the opportunity to get pregnant.  Same with drugs.  Same with drinking.

Brian,
I can tell that your daughter is still small.  What do you plan to do when she gets older?  Go on every date with her?  Not let her date at all?  Not let her go out with friends?  Go to sleepovers?  Prom? Dances?  Still going to send her to daycare when she gets 16?

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 6:57pm:

Mel, did you take precaution and get pregnant anyway?   Or did you know you might get pregnant but not know the whole scope of what exactly that meant?

Since my experience is very personal and there were issues involved that I don't want to get into on here, I'm not going to answer these questions Brian.

I'm sorry Mel, that was probably insensitive of me to ask that.

What I was asking was regarding parents and school for sex ed.  You said you knew all the technical stuff, but your mom did not teach you about the scope of what it means to be a parent.  I was just wanting to chat about that subject.

It's ok.  I'm sorry.  I'll shut up now.


Jenn,
If that is what it takes, yes.  Isn't that a much better idea than having a drugged out, drunk, pregnant 15 year old?  
Just because it might be seen as a 'drag' doesnt mean I am not going to parent my kid.

deltadarlin wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 6:50pm:

Her stance on abortion, the fact that she thinks the war in Iraq is *blessed* and that our soldiers are *fighting for Jesus*, and let us not forget that ID should be taught in school and sex education should not

Do you have sources for any of that?

Quote:

I can see the Palin family feels the same of their daughter.  Does my heart good to see a family pull together in hard times

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It would be political suicide for candidates to make this more than it is. It's the pulpit pounders that cringe at this kind of thing. Telling kids that abstinence is the way to deal with the strongest force on the planet and something to be ashamed of is psychotic. Give the kid and the family a break. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Years ago, a family with their resources would send the kid on an extended "vacation" for several months. I like it better now.

Palin sounded great to me. It's refresing to listen to a Republican VP candidate with some kind of footing in the real world. Her love of creationism and total opposition to choice, lost me though. I'm beyond being tired of social issues pushing aside issues that affect the whole country and the planet.

Charlie

Here you go Brew

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Even copy some for you

""Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan.""

There are different links that provide her ideas on different things.  THey are relatively easy to find.

now Brian, get your posters straight here, not Jen, but Carolyn  ;)


BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 7:21pm:

I'm sorry Mel, that was probably insensitive of me to ask that. What I was asking was regarding parents and school for sex ed.  You said you knew all the technical stuff, but your mom did not teach you about the scope of what it means to be a parent.  I was just wanting to chat about that subject. It's ok.  I'm sorry.  I'll shut up now. Jenn, If that is what it takes, yes.  Isn't that a much better idea than having a drugged out, drunk, pregnant 15 year old?   Just because it might be seen as a 'drag' doesnt mean I am not going to parent my kid.

I have a 24 year old that is none of the things that you mentioned, she's an honors student in college, working on her Masters degree.  I didn't parent her by *sitting on top of her* or by keeping her away from things.   I parented her by giving her the foundation on which to make decisions.  Yes, she's made a few bad choices (very few), but you know what?  She learned from her mistakes.  I think that if you provide your kids with the right tools, the right knowledge and trust, your kids will be fine.

You can't always protect your daughter and the tighter you hold those reins when she gets older, the more likely she is to rebel.  I am NOT saying that kids need to be allowed to do what they please, nope, not in any form or fashion.  Sarah still lives at home and while living there, she has to follow my rules and she knows it.

Whoops.  I dont know why I thought PollyPocket wrote that.  I think I am getting senile.

I agree with what you say.  I am certainly not going to keep stinky in a bubble until she goes off to join Delta Sigma Theta Sorority.  
I agree with letting kids make some mistakes so they learn.  But things like drugs and pregnancy will change the person's life.  Let them make mistakes with smaller stuff that wont permanently alter their life.

A parent's job can be stated very simply. Raise children to be happy, responsible, contributing adult members of society.

We allow them to make mistakes because mistakes are better teachers than lectures are. It's called "letting them run with their shoes untied." Which teaches the lesson better - a talking-to about tying their shoes, or a skinned knee?

We don't let toddlers run into traffic because they have no point of reference - that moving cars can kill people. But we ease them into greater levels of responsibility, all the while ensuring that the mistakes they are capable of won't kill or maim them.

I will tell my son that I believe it is a supremely bad idea to have pre-marital sex. Will I delude myself into thinking that he won't? Hardly. But I can't be there when he makes that decision. So I have to do the best I can and then hope for the best.

Would I abandon him if he were to impregnate a girl? No. Would I encourage him to support an abortion? No. I know several people for whom that decision has haunted them their entire lives, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I would support his decision to be a father, and I would also tell him that abortion is a legal option - not the right one in my mind, but legal nonetheless.

And now I'm done talking about this on this forum. I promise.

Carolyn, thank you for the link.

deltadarlin wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 9:09pm:

Here you go Brew START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE   Even copy some for you ""Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."" There are different links that provide her ideas on different things.  THey are relatively easy to find. now Brian, get your posters straight here, not Jen, but Carolyn  ;)

She should have left that comment out.  At least she didn't say it was a crusade.   ;D  I'll bet it twirrled Osamma's turbin.

-P.

I really wish they would not have aired the clip with the 9/11 video tonight.

IMHO...not a good choice for sure.

They showed a clip of 9/11?

Wow.  I didn't think they were gonna go with the fear tactics this election.

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 10:42pm:

They showed a clip of 9/11? Wow.  I didn't think they were gonna go with the fear tactics this election.

Why? Is the threat of terror gone now? Time to let down our guard? Ignore Iran?

We'll see if the next President re-kindles the war on terror.  
Of course it's not gone.  Bush's decision to help the Iraqis elect a leader rather than attack terrorists has only made more terrorists.  
C'mon Brew.  You know as well as I do it is nothing more than a scare tactic and a photo op.  It's disgusting.  Makes me want to puke.

Why does the right wing keep flashing images of death and destruction, but they don't have any sort of plan to DO anything?  Scare tactics.  Nobody is even TALKING about a plan.

Yup. Every despot thoughout history has used stuff like 9/11 to scare people into sacrificing liberties in order to protect them from evil. Too often the greatest evil comes from protectors.

Charlie

I guess some of you folks just want to forget what was done to this country and our people......Thats fucking sad! >:(

Quote:

I guess some of you folks just want to forget what was done to this country and our people......Thats fucking sad!

Not me but what we have allowed to be done to ourselves by encouraging fear itself as a response; ranks right up there with as nearly horrific.

Charlie

Well, anyways, my point was this: the fact that Sarah is for teaching abstinence as the ONLY method of birth control in schools, while she has a pregnant underage daughter, shows how delusional the far right can be. If she, as the 2nd best example of a candidate for the religious party, cannot make that position work, how does she think that is going to actually do anything to solve the problem? But instead of saying “wow, that sure didn’t work the way I though it would, maybe I should try to listening to someone else on the issue and try some compromise” she spins it as a blessing and uses it to make her conviction to the proven flawed concept even less movable. Just what this country needs; another wrong but completely inflexible person in charge. If she wins I hope she says “Mission Accomplished”.

How is it that any unfavorable truth spoken about a republican candidate isn’t welcome here? Sarah’s situation is clearly is incongruent to me, so I bring it up. BTW it wasn’t me who opened this door. Her daughter chose to have sex, Sarah chose to be a candidate, and her supporters started this thread – the door was opened and I walked through. Or are these threads for those who fall in line only? Any deviation from the Alpha group leaves “offense” and so-called “speechless-ness”.

Is there anyone here who would doubt for a second that if Chelsea Clinton got knocked up at 17 and still in school during Bill’s term there wouldn’t be 20 pages of Republican’s bashing her on here? “Speechless” would be the one thing NOT present here I think.

And all from the party that preaches “personal accountability” and whose members where ready to lynch someone’s husband for 1 DUI in 20 years in a recent thread. So treating life willy-nilly with a DUI is so horrible we need to make sure there is no “coddling” but creating life willy-nilly (and on the tax-payer dime I might add) is a good opportunity to show family bonds? Introducing kids to condoms is no more giving them permission to have sex than showing them how to use a seat belt is permission to take the family car for a joy ride. BTW, I find it SUPER humorous that those who are defending Palin on this point and were for “not coddling” this posters husband didn’t have the same response when our current president was busted for lying about HIS DYI! Anyone here from that side get THAT upset at Bush when a copy if his ticket was found and displayed and he said he “forgot” he got arrested? Talk about incongruent.

Bill, in answer to your question, I do not know if the sex act is the mistake or the choice to carry the result to term is the mistake. I am not a religious right republican. You’ll have to ask some of those, but you’ll not get a straight answer depending on which ones you’ll ask. I do know they use that word for people in this situation. I am used to it followed up by talk about bad or absent parenting but I suppose there will be none of that now here. My point is that Palin’s position couldn’t be more wrong on the subject and if she can’t make it work in her own life how the hell should I accept her telling me what is right in my life?

And of course the terror threat isn’t gone – it is worse than ever. While we could have been looking for Bin Ladin with the record amount of money wasted in Iraq, we are busy finding no WMD, no terrorist camps, and no economy for our country.

Which bring me to McSame’s speech. He used the word “change” a lot. And I noticed that Cheney was again in a “undisclosed location”.

If we need so much change is he saying what Bush did / is doing is wrong? Seems that way to me. If Bush did such a good job wouldn’t the speech be about continuing to do that same good job?

So then to the McCain supports here: If you think McCain is gonna be so great and you’re voting for him, are you admitting you were wrong about Bush? Should we get nutty and have me bump up every-single post from 9-11 until today and lets see what all you guys really said back then about our soon to be ex-pres. If you are someone who supported Bush and thinks he was doing what was/is right, I don’t see how you can vote for someone who is for such sweeping “change” and not also be incongruent.

And McSame is the same. Bush was going to “reach across the isle” and McCain is going to “welcome anyone from any side who wants to fix this country”. Bush did nothing he said he was gonna do and there is no reason to think that McCain will either. And the simple fact that people who labeled him RINO and chastised him in the past are now championing him really says a lot about what American politics is all about.

Anyone here better off now than 8 years ago (thanks Ronnie for that one!)? Anyone here feel safer now than 8 years ago?

Speaking of Ronnie, reminds me of a women who would have made a GREAT VP – Nancy! Nancy practiced what she preached and lived her life accordingly. Even democrats respected her. Instead of someone like that I get this holier-than-thou hypocrite person who talks for God. She sure is pretty thou….

I believe I am going to reinstate my policy of not reading or posting in political threads on this message board.

B

superhawk2300 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 8:49pm:

So then to the McCain supports here: If you think McCain is gonna be so great and you’re voting for him, are you admitting you were wrong about Bush?

Wow, I guess you can tell who voted for Bush.....Ever think of doing an act on the Vegas strip?.....You know, guess how much money they have in their pocket or something?  ;)

LMAO. Yeah I could also guess peoples weight or age or some other thing that isn't a sensative issue  ;D

On a serious note, I may not vote at all this year. I am tiring of the same old circus acts and expection that I buy into over-exaggerated claims of the next 4 years being Nervana (ooops, Heaven - sorry Sarah!) by everyone that has a mic stuff in front of them.

I'd like one of them to say "ok, stop me if you've heard this one before".......

I hear what your saying, bro....But dont throw your vote away, vote for an indy......I know its sad!

I really want a third party to be a valid choice but I fear even if one got elected the 2 parties would just suddenly have lots of agreements and clam up and nothing would get done for 4 years, all the while the terrorist stay busy.......

I HATE the fear. Nothing good comes from it but it is so hard to ignore now that I got kids.

I guess a good start would be a candidate who was honest. Even if they had to admit they did some bad shit or something. Until we get one who is honest does it really matter what they say in any pre-election speech?

I do appreaciate your encouragement to not waste my vote thou - i know it is something lots of other people wish they had. I am just so tired of all the BS though....

Oh BTW Jonny? Who you voting for? Maybe I'll take a look at them?  ;)

superhawk2300 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 9:51pm:

Oh BTW Jonny? Who you voting for? Maybe I'll take a look at them?  ;)

You!

Get a ticket....QUICK!  :D

OK, seriously dude.......

I'll like to point out something *positive* here, because it *is* here and I think it is a good thing to strive for.

What makes you the coolest, Jonno, is that while we have what is safe to say the opposite views quite often, we can still be civil and dare I say, helpful with each other.  If I had a nickel for every time I said to myself "ohhh I hate what that damn Jonny writes" (paraphrasing of course) I'd never worry about the cost of paying full-price for meds (THAT is saying a lot).

We've taken and delt some per-tty big blows over the years and this thread is no exception. But with just the littlest effort it is easy to rise above it when the effort comes from others as well (in my opinion).

I am mostly here for CH help and friendship. And you, my man, have helped me, and in return I hope I have helped others.

It is what it is all about. All this "general thread" stuff shouldn't keep me from getting help or giving help. In the past it did. Not anymore (well it was hard getting over being wrongly accused of being a pedophile). Regardless of what transpires I am grateful for you and the help you've given me.

So Cheers to you, my opposition man! Huzzah!

[Edit] - whoah! Just being clear - I am NOT saying Jonny called me a pediphile. Glad I re-read,

Hawk dude, I know good folk when I read them, I aint letting good folk go down to a few jerkoffs because they didnt like what someone has to say about a certain subject.

Ive been here long enough to know how needs to be weeded out, and you sir, are a stand up guy with a brain far bigger than mine....LOL

Now tell the folks what that means.....LMAO  ;D

In other words....I love ya and cant wait to meet ya! :-*

Racer1_NC wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 9:12pm:

I believe I am going to reinstate my policy of not reading or posting in political threads on this message board. B

Is there room over there for two?

This is a great thread.  The doors have been unlocked for an open discussion of a myriad of topics ranging from Sarah Palin, teenage pregnancy, war on terror, who ya gonna vote for, and on.  

Open discussion on any topic is good discussion.

For the record, I am a registered "Unaffiliated" voter - don't particularly like either party - we need a strong third party.

That being said:

IMHO - I thought Sarah Palin did a fantastic job with her speech.  Given the same old DC garbage, she was definitely a breath of fresh air, and will invigorate McCain's bid for the White House.  However, she is way too conservative for my liking.

I'm not Pro-life, nor Pro-abortion.  I am Pro-Choice.  Superhawk's first post also offended me, especially about the daughter needing to buy condoms.  How about her boyfriend?  Where is his responsibility in this situation?  But in reading through the thread, I thank him for clarifying his intent.  

I was born in 1946.  My mother taught me nothing about sex, urges, menstruation, birth control - nothing.  I learned from my peers and was very fortunate that I did not end up pregnant as a teen.  From the day of their births, I made a promise to myself that my daughters were going to armed with knowledge about their God given sexuality, and armed with the TRUTH.....that they WILL have those hormonal urges.....that the boys WILL also have those urges, and that things WILL possibly happen.  

When as toddlers they asked "Mom, what's that?" while pointing to Daddy's "appendage".  I told them it was a penis and that's where Daddy urinated (no cutesy names for body parts - the real thing).  At that time, that's all the information they needed.  Later on, when they inquired, they learned that Daddy's appendage was used for something else, and I told them how it was used.  I also taught my daughters that the only way to avoid pregnancy and STD's was abstinence.  I found a fantastic book for girls that described everything - nothing left out including masturbation, homosexuality, even beastuality - read it first, then gave it to them around the age of 13 to read.  Ask away, I said.

My daughters knew that no question, no topic, no confession was off limits to me and that I would answer every single question they had truthfully, without recriminations.  If I didn't know the answer, we would look it up together.  When in high school, both of them came to me telling me that they were sorry, but they were becoming sexually active.  As promised - no recriminations, and also as promised, I took them to the gynocoligist and they went on birth control pills.  I also bought them their first box of condoms and made them promise that their boyfriends would put them on.  Their father was not thrilled about this, but I was adamant - they were armed with knowledge, and with the necessary tools.

They are both in their 30's, happily married, with baby daughters of their own.  

I'm a realist.  Sarah Palin is not a bad mother.  She is the mother of a normal teenage daughter who has normal sexuality, and who was not given all the information she needed.  Sarah is just not a realist.

Sex ed in schools - absolutely yes all of it.  First teach them they are normal sexual beings and that they will experience feelings that they will have great difficulty in controlling.  Then teach them abstinence as first choice, but when that fails them, teach them protection to the utmost.

Sandy

Sandy,
Where's a high 5 emoticon when you need one?  We did exactly the same thing with Sarah that you did with your daughters.

Maybe Sarah Palin was not so worried about her daughter getting pregnant and then getting married, because she, herself, was pregnant before getting married?  Sarah Palin eloped on August 29, 1988.  Her son was born on April 29, 1989.  That's 234 days or 33.4 weeks.

Sandy.

Wow. You rocked the house! Most excellent!

And thanks for your honsest assesment of my post and for seeing the true intent behind my crude and clumbsy writing.

And thanks for bringing up the boyfriend part. As I man I agree the responsibilty is up to everyone involved. I also think there is a *tad* more responsibilty on the females part, due to the fact that they will carry the child and they alone get the final say if an abortion is something they will or won't do. For the man it can be boiled down to "can I afford 17% of my paycheck to be docked if this goes all the way bad? (bad being I no longer want to be with the female who got accidentally pregnant with my child)". I'm not saying it is fair, only the bottom line way it is in America, right now.

And for the record, so people don't freak about me using the word "bad" to describe the above situation; I've never heard anyone who got someone accidentally pregnant, that they did not want to be with, describe the situation on any level as positive or something they would have purposly chose (hense the "accidental" part).

Again, with the point being Palin a hypocrit or someone who cannot admit they are wrong and being a candidate for VP, the boyfriend thing is unrelatd to me for those specific points. In everyday life of course he has just as much part in it.

For the record when me and my wife got pregnant the 2nd unplanned time I blamed myself and not her. I put having my "agmentation" surgery on hold just too long I guess.....

I'm not sure I agree with you about Sarah Palin being a hypocrite.  A hypocrite is someone who pretends to have certain beliefs or virtues, but who doesn't really practice those beliefs and virtues.  

Sarah Palin really does practice the beliefs and virtues just she says she does.  She is a born again Christian (of several years - don't know how long) who wholeheartedly believes in abstinence only and is 100% anti-abortion for any reason.  I'm sure she raised and taught her daughter, as well as the rest of her children,  these Christian values.  This is not hypocritical behavior.  As I said in my earlier post, given today's society, this is just not realistic.

Whether her first child was conceived in or out of wedlock makes no difference now.  Prior to her being "saved" she was a normal red-blooded girl just like anyone else.  

In either case, now, which is what matters to this country, she practices what she preaches.        

As to becoming VP, I'm more afraid of someone who is so entrenched in her (or his) beliefs that they cannot have an open mind to what is "real" in this country and in the world.  

Is she willing to negotiate and compromise, even if that compromise may cross the religious boundaries that she so strongly believes in?  

Is she able to put aside her religious beliefs when dealing with Arab countries, or Israel, or China and respect their religion and their beliefs?  

If, she should unexpectedly become President and have the opportunity to seat Supreme Court Justices, will she promote only those who believe as strictly as she, or will she have an open mind and promote truly unbiased justices?

These are my questions.

I think she's fantastic as woman, a mother, as a Governor, a Moose hunter, and a good, old fashioned outdoor kind of gal, and possibly a good VP, but she scares the heck out of me.

I need to learn a whole lot more about Mrs. Palin before I cast my ballot.

Sandy

deltadarlin wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 12:47pm:

Sandy, Where's a high 5 emoticon when you need one?  We did exactly the same thing with Sarah that you did with your daughters. Maybe Sarah Palin was not so worried about her daughter getting pregnant and then getting married, because she, herself, was pregnant before getting married?  Sarah Palin eloped on August 29, 1988.  Her son was born on April 29, 1989.  That's 234 days or 33.4 weeks.

And that means what?

:), heres something i recieved earlier,   START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE    she has certainly livened up the debate. andrew.              edited cause it diden't work.

What does it mean?  If that had happened to me, I would have made damned sure that my daughter wouldn't end up in the same situation.
If she taught her daughter about abstsining, did she also teach her daughter about birth control?   It's fine and it's a good idea to tell kids to wait until marriage, but it's not being realistic.  Yes, there are those who take vows of purity and keep them, but they're in the minority.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

She is not a born again Christian (and to be quite honest, that's a term I thoroughly despise).  She joined the Wasilla Assembly of God while she was still in junior high school and was a member there until 20002 when she joined another non-denominational Evangelical church.  She still attends meetings and conferences at the Wasilla Assembly of God.

Sandy,
That's what bothers me, I don't know if she can put aside her religious beliefs.   How can one seperate their core beliefs from themselves?

deltadarlin wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 5:51pm:

What does it mean?  If that had happened to me, I would have made damned sure that my daughter wouldn't end up in the same situation.

How?

I guess it may be semantics but her mother taught her that abstinence was the only acceptable method of birth control and Sarah had pre-marital sex and had gotten pregnant without wanting to be pregnant.

Now that she is pushing that on the public it is “do what I say, not what I do or did." Instead of leading by example she is leading by empty words. Words she wants to apply to everyone but her and hers. To me, (and maybe it is just me) this is hypocritical. I am terrible with being told what to do by someone who wouldn’t do it for themselves, especially when they are proven incorrect. I think most people have a problem with this. It send the message that they are better than the rest of us, and the rules they make do not apply to them, but only to us poor stupid peasants.

Now history repeats itself with the family as it most often does. Seems like the “hard headed” syndrome. If this is the policy she is going to put in place, be prepared for a huge increase in teenage girls having unplanned pregnancies, at tax-payer expense.

Not exactly what I call great leadership.

And this is someone who God talks to? Again if she, as a woman of considerable means, living the American Dream, and apparently with Heavenly insight cannot execute her and her party’s beliefs to success, how will the impoverished, single mother who works 2 minimum wage jobs fare?

I am not as forgiving about the present / past comparison either. I’d hope as a middle-age married women she wouldn’t be having kids out of wedlock, so it is pretty giving to be granting her credit for that (currently practicing her beliefs or whatever).

I’d like to know how many of her children she planned and how many came “by mistake” (again, for lack of a better term only, please).

Has anyone here ever made an ultimatum to a teenage daughter that actually listened?

Rolo. ;D

Rolo,

That's not the point. Those of us who have either had unplanned children or have children who have are not running for VP and insisting our method is the only one that should be taught.

No one here is saying abstinence shouldn't be taught. No one is saying that by teaching kids about condoms that will make them not get pregnant 100% of the time either. The issue is should these things be taught in schools and which ones. Palin wants ONLY abstinence taught in schools as the ONLY method of birth control (since it worked so well for her family, twice :) )

I say nothing is wrong about teaching EVERY METHOD of birth control. Teaching about somthing isn't an endorsment to use it. Teach them EVERYTHING on a fact basis. It always was and still is up to the parents to decide what values to instill in their kids.

And ultimatly in the end the child will do all the deciding anyways, which is a good reason to arm them with knowlegde of all the possible choices. Who knows how many kids plan on abstaining until a situation arises and they are no longer abstain. Maybe if they learned about other methods they would feel more confident about insisting on them at that crucial moment when it is clear they are no longer going to abstain.

superhawk2300 wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 7:35pm:

Rolo, That's not the point. Those of us who have either had unplanned children or have children who have are not running for VP and insisting our method is the only one that should be taught. No one here is saying abstinence shouldn't be taught. No one is saying that by teaching kids about condoms that will make them not get pregnant 100% of the time either. The issue is should these things be taught in schools and which ones. Palin wants ONLY abstinence taught in schools as the ONLY method of birth control (since it worked so well for her family, twice :) ) I say nothing is wrong about teaching EVERY METHOD of birth control. Teaching about somthing isn't an endorsment to use it. Teach them EVERYTHING on a fact basis. It always was and still is up to the parents to decide what values to instill in their kids. And ultimatly in the end the child will do all the deciding anyways, which is a good reason to arm them with knowlegde of all the possible choices. Who knows how many kids plan on abstaining until a situation arises and they are no longer abstain. Maybe if they learned about other methods they would feel more confident about insisting on them at that crucial moment when it is clear they are no longer going to abstain.

I never said abstinence was the way to go, I’m a firm believer that you should use you noodle before you dip your noodle! ;)

I’m just going to put it out there. I have a 18 year old daughter with trisomy 23 (downs syndrome) and I applaud Sara Palin for her fortitude in bringing her Trig to fruition!

Roland.

Jonny,
Superhawk more or less answered your question for me.  If I had an unplanned pregnancy early on, I would want my daughter to be armed with the information that she needed to possibly prevent the situation from happening (either by making the choice to abstain or how to use birth control if needed).  Abstinance only does NOT teach about birth control.

deltadarlin wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 9:42pm:

Jonny, Superhawk more or less answered your question for me.  If I had an unplanned pregnancy early on, I would want my daughter to be armed with the information that she needed to possibly prevent the situation from happening (either by making the choice to abstain or how to use birth control if needed).  Abstinance only does NOT teach about birth control.

I'm not picken darlin but "If I had an unplanned pregnancy early on, I would want my daughter to be armed with the information that she needed to possibly prevent the situation from happening" is a conflicting statement.

:-*

BTW; the guy/gal who can stop the mosquitoes form breeding will get my vote! ;D

Quote:

I'm not picken darlin but "If I had an unplanned pregnancy early on, I would want my daughter to be armed with the information that she needed to possibly prevent the situation from happening" is a conflicting statement.

No it's not. It's being realistic.
Jeez, you guys sound like you were never teenagers. I bet I would still have a hard time getting a condom on in the heat of battle.

karma wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 10:43pm:

Quote: I'm not picken darlin but "If I had an unplanned pregnancy early on, I would want my daughter to be armed with the information that she needed to possibly prevent the situation from happening" is a conflicting statement. No it's not. It's being realistic. Jeez, you guys sound like you were never teenagers. I bet I would still have a hard time getting a condom on in the heat of battle.

Whatever?

I think there is a communication misunderstanding here.......

""If I had an unplanned pregnancy early on, I would want my daughter to be armed with the information that she needed to possibly prevent the situation from happening" is a conflicting statement."

I think Rolo means if one is already pregnant how can one stop prevent the situation from happening?

Rolo, delta said if SHE had an unplanned pregnancy she would do whatever it took so her daughter did not wind up in the same situation as her. By "If I had an unplanned pregnancy" she is speaking of herself being pregnant not her daughter.

Yea Superhawk, I got it misconstrued. My point is if you know the bull is loose and you let it into your pasture, nature will take its course.

The wife and I planned both of our little prodigies (demons) and I as well as the rest of the world understand what the ramifications are of having unprotected sex. It’s no mystery at all, you have sex and the result will be here in 9 months.

Rolo.. ;)

Rolo,
You got that right. The mystery is why such a beautiful experience and life changing and incredibly fullfilling result should remain a secret to young adults.

As an outsider by virtue of geography and nationality to American politics and the current Presidential race, I’m looking and hoping people in the United States of America make the “right choice.”

For most of the world, the USA is still the free world’s remaining super power after the cold war ended.  I’m well aware Far East countries and China are not only emerging economies, they are also becoming citizen counties of the world.  Having said that, these emerging economies still depend on the strength and health of the US economy and markets.  That goes for us here in Switzerland as well, but to a (much) lesser extent, Switzerland is the vault of the world.

Therefore, the US has an obligation – like it or not, to be the leader for the free
World and if needed, serve as the policeman, along with a few nations like the UK, to be ready to take responsible action when we have a bad world citizen country, and not just take advantage of them.  You have an enviable record on that count rebuilding and supporting the economies of Germany, Japan, and most recently, Iraq.(in a way, “job” not yet complete)  We have a more peaceful and prosperous world thanks to the responsible leadership America provides on the global stage.

I will not suggest or point to either of the two candidates for president, that‘s a choice US voters must make so it is your responsibility.

Having said that, I am Swiss (and Israeli), but my ties to the US are greater than many of you may know, Marta is a US citizen, and both my sons hold US citizenship as well, I have lived and worked in the USA (with a Green card)  That makes your presidential election a very important and essential process of democracy to me.   I know the candidate I would vote for were I a US Citizen and I know the candidate Marta will vote for.  

So when you vote, please remember it’s not about one kid’s  pregnancy, or other pitiful below the belt accusations, on either side that tells you who to vote for.  It’s not about skin color or gender and it’s not about who Oprah will have or not have on her show…   It’s about skills, qualifications, competencies, and track record…  It’s also about principles and moral responsibilities.

The USA has, due to historical circumstances, the obligation, the duty and moral responsibility to the democratic, and not so democratic countries of world, to stand for democracy and its role of safeguarding our most important and cherished possession – FREEDOM

You represent the door to prosperity and much that is so very good– it’s the way of life and government all of you have chosen for over 200 years to support and stand for.  Like it or not, you, your country, and your way of life serves as a model of success for the rest of world to see, emulate, and hopefully join as good citizen countries.

So please think about the rest of us in the world when you vote.  Yes, I know at times many countries will say they don’t like you, yet many of their people still want to live there (or live the American way) to take advantage of all the wonderful opportunities you have.  You need to stay the beacon of freedom... stay the role model for a free and prosperous country / economy.

STAY WHAT YOU ARE:

PROUD NATION !!!

FREE


Michael

That's my kind of post Michael. We are victims of sensational crap from cable news, idiot bloggers and corporate entities that see to it that television doesn't rock the boat. These people want us to be aware enough to buy all the junk that they advertise but they have no use for a well-educated public. It's our responsibility to wade though all the crappola.

Charlie

Wow Michael, your post just blew me away!

[smiley=headbanger.gif]

Well said, Michael, and thank you.   :)

All the best,

George

Michael,
Thank-you.  It's nice to hear someone say something good about the US, given that some in this world don't think so highly of the US.

Carolyn

Michael,

Thank you for pointing out to us resident US citizens how much our votes in this country mean to the world.

Dang, I sure wish YOU could vote here as well as Marta!  You seem to have a much better perspective as to what's as stake than many American citizens.

You've reminded us, which I believe we needed that reminder, that what we do here impacts not only us, but a good portion of our global community.  Let's hope we all cast our ballots keeping that in mind.

Great post!

Let's hope that we US citizens have as much sense.

Sandy

Quote:

Dang, I sure wish YOU could vote here as well as Marta!  You seem to have a much better perspective as to what's as stake than many American citizens.

There's a good reason for it Sandy. They get real news compared to only the crap that we get from cable scum here.

Charlie

Here is something on the level of actual information about the candidate, Charlie ... a letter from a resident of Wasilla, Alaska from a person that has dealt with Palin on various issues since 1992.  Written from a particular perspective, not something to be accepted uncritically, but it borders on real information, not merely advertising and spin.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Thanks Monty. I usually like newspaper articles for better information. It's something to ponder in any case. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Charlie

I love your post Michael! It left me pondering who you would vote for if you could. I've been very confused and lately am more confused. I  was almost ready to vote for McCain until his choice for VP. Sorry, but I think I'm one of the few that he lost with his choice.

Charlotte

cash5542 wrote on Sep 7^th, 2008 at 9:32pm:

I  was almost ready to vote for McCain until his choice for VP. Sorry, but I think I'm one of the few that he lost with his choice. Charlotte

No, Charlotte, you're not.  I'm thinking that my daughter and I will vote otherwise (very possibly independent).  However, I did listen to a news program on NPR, where the group being interviewed was Republican Women For Choice (I'm thinking that was the name of the group) and although they didn't agree with Palin on her abortion stance, they were backing her.  As the respondent pointed out, we still have a Democratic Congress and that should pretty much hold any wild ideas in check and prevent a *too conservative*  judge being appointed to the Supreme Court (scant comfort that is).

Carolyn

I have a feeling that Hillary Democrats aren't voting against their own self interest. They know that several judges will be retiring soon and McCain will try to appoint pro-life judges only. The so-called pro-lifers make a lot of noise about the court "legislating from the bench" which is exactly what they are proposing. What a con. It's okay so long as it's there cause.

Charlie

Is it a wonder that McCain-Palin are 10 pts ahead after the conventions are over?

Most of us grew up with the duck and cover routine of the nuclear age and we beat it because we outspent and out did the soviets. Do other countries have a more passive goal in this day and age just because they don’t have aircraft carriers? A missile launched is still able to take out our way of life as it could in the 1960’s. Are you willing to let that happen just because you don’t think you should be prepared for it?

My friends, do you realize what the Soviets and Iranians are doing these days? They might not be promoting world dominance anymore but the purpose of their actions is the same as it was in the 1970’s.

Their goal is for the US to respect them for their power not their deeds.

This is a global power struggle for energy (carbon based) and if we the people of the United States don’t get going on nuclear energy and alternatives like wind and solar, we will be doomed to energy failure. This situation will be our downfall! If we cannot beat the tree huggers on this one, we will all be chopping wood and hunting game for survival not comfort. It will happen in our lifetime if we fail to act in a responsive way!

If you think you can stand by and it will blow over you are a fool. If you (the people) cannot see this coming you will be eating crow (literally), and looking for a good mule to help you drag the logs from the woods to your fire box.

That my friend’s is utopia verses reality in my eyes. I don’t ever want to see us as a third world country, so don’t let them buy us out of what we have because of stupidity.

I am an independent voter and I have no cart in the race so do what you may, but remember that your grandchildren may live here someday after your pride and body are 6 feet under. Every parent wants a better life for the generations to come, but what are you personally doing to help achieve this goal?

Written by an ardent independent voter who cares more about my family than what is pondered at the dam water cooler.

Honor, Duty, Country folks! It used to mean something, and still does to me.

Roland ;)