REallY??

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If that's middle class, sign me up honey.  the nerve.

Gotta go.. gonna try to grab some dinner before it gets too late.  

Middle Class My A$$

Class envy is what will get Obama elected.

I always say speak of what you know.

I've been selling a lot of these lately:

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This 1940 anti-FDR button works for me this year.

Charlie

I'm glad to see someone who has been willing to work to get oneself ahead.  What is wrong with that?  There was nothing in that article that even hinted at impropriety, but rather at hard work and being willing to go out on a limb to make something happen.  You will notice that not all of the ventures they worked on paid off.  I've seen that end of it, and am waiting to see what happens when one works.  Good for them.

Jerry

wonder if anyone knows how the "lower income" lives? Huh? Those on Social Security?

Insofar as "middleclass" goes -- down here in the south... better lower the bar. Most "middleclass" people may be worth $1.2 mil on paper, but incomes aren't near that much and take home pay is WAAAY less. $40-90 is middleclass down this way. And that's barely making ends meet.

Maybe if we could all live on an expense account.... ummmm that's a thought...

Hugs BD

Charlie wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2008 at 12:17am:

I've been selling a lot of these lately:

Hot item Charlie, with Bloomberg's request in NYC.

I'm a State civil service worker.  My salary has never approached the 6 figure mark.  I'm worth more than $1,000,000.  I'm middle class.

You don't get signed up for this, you earn it.

By income, the Palin's are not considered middle class.  Income ranges over the $250,000 mark are definitely considered *upper* class.  We've seen what they own, now let's see what they *owe*.

'darlin

I'm not sure Bob, but I think we agreed. :)  What's the world coming to?????

Bob P wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2008 at 8:33am:

I'm a State civil service worker.  My salary has never approached the 6 figure mark.  I'm worth more than $1,000,000.  I'm middle class. You don't get signed up for this, you earn it.

No shit - REALLY? there's no cheese line??

Are you for real...

I think you get my point is that she's is not the typical average joe she is always saying she and her family are - regardless of whether you figure your net worth as an individual, or you look at only your salary.  

Believe me, I don't need to sign up for $hit.  I just don't like the BS behind the tight lipped smiling and hokey jargon.

And Mr. Champion of the middle class, I feel your pain, is living in a $1,650,00 mansion (with a little help from the indicted Mr. Rezko).

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Nice going Barb & Pep.

Charlie

Uh.....newsflash, no Governor or Senator comes close to being an "average Joe" period.  They all want you to think they understand your life, but they don't, because we have let them set themselves apart from us.

Some of my best friends are middle class.  8-)

You don't say Jimi? ;)

That's not news to me there Thomas.  For the most part everyone wants to do better and ultimately that changes you, for better or worse.  

Not so difficult to understand but still a conundrum about Palin's insistence on carrying herself off as the average American, struggling to pay bills.  She's a type, and transparent and I don't buy it.

They all lie, and they are all going to continue to lie.  I amazes me that people get upset about their lying, we've let them get away with it for so long.  I find it interesting which particular lies get people upset.  It's all a ruse and we are being played an manipulated by the powers that be.  They flaunt their arrogance and "above the law" lifestyle right in our faces as if we can do nothing about it.  The sad thing is, we CAN, but we don't know it.

Agostino Leyre wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2008 at 10:40am:

They all lie, and they are all going to continue to lie.  I amazes me that people get upset about their lying, we've let them get away with it for so long.  I find it interesting which particular lies get people upset.  It's all a ruse and we are being played an manipulated by the powers that be.  They flaunt their arrogance and "above the law" lifestyle right in our faces as if we can do nothing about it.  The sad thing is, we CAN, but we don't know it.

And once we can admit that BOTH sides are equally guilty, we can free ourselves from the chains of partisan politics. And either vote third party or vote the lesser of two evils.

It's really quite liberating.

Here is something that staggers my mind. It seems to be infectious. It is the biggest "achivement" by our political leaders and it happens every year.

Millions of lower-income bracket people voting for people who will raise their taxes, but not their own.

I know a girl here in WI who is in the lower-income bracket and she said something to the effect of "I can't vote for Obama because he will tax people who make over 250,000 dollars a year. I will vote for Mc Cain".

I was like, "Ok, so YOU'RE volenteering your money to give to the government then?!?!"

I do not see why anyone who makes less than 250,000 would think this way.

One thing is for sure, taxes will be raised to get us out of the mess Bush has gotten us into. The question is who wil pay.

As a member of the middle-class I am sick of it being me. And I understand that taxing people who make less than me as mostly ineffective, as % wise they make so little the amount gained isn't that much AND more importantly the people in the lower income brakcets and the middle class SPEND the most money as they spread it around, thus stimulating the economy.

1% of 250,000 bucks is 2500 bucks. Anyone who makes a quarter of a million dollars a year should be able to afford a few thousand dollars more in taxes. Maybe they won't be able to go offraoding in the hummer every weekend anymore or will have to cancel one vacation this year. I am sure there are some who will actually feel it in a real way, but for everyone of them in this braket there are many who won't feel it at all. Becasue "those who make more than 250,000 a year" also include those who make millions a year. And it is these people that have reaped most of the benfits of the Wall Street mess in the last decade. People in the lowest tax bracket don't invest in Wall Street so why should they have to bail out people 10 times richer than them?

1% of 30,000 is 300 bucks. It will take a lot more people in this bracket to be taxes to have the same effect on the sitaution as taxing one person as above. Not to mention to those people making 30,000 a year - that 300 bucks might be the cost of food for a entire month.

Buying goods on a daily basis is what this economy needs to stay strong. Giving tax breaks to the upper class just puts MY tax money in their BANK accounts which just devalues the few dollars I got left even more. It is a double whammy for the working guy.

I want these people who have had money to gamble who excellerated this mess to bail themselves out!

 middle class


A relatively financially stable class that generally works white collar jobs.
Class is defined by 4 things: Wealth (How much land/stocks/stuff you have. The top 1% of this country owns 80% of US wealth, leaving probably 15 - 20%to the middle class.), Income (Salary/wage of generally $60,000 - 150,000 or so, possibly more per year), Education (Generally middle class people have at least some college education), and Prestige (How respectable your job is, so that is why a plumber can be paid more than a IT person, but is considered working class).

Most people think the middle class is the class they are in. They think this because they know someone who has more money than they do, and someone who has less. Really, the middle class only makes up about 30% of the US population. A MUCH larger silent working class exists. The poverty line is a false indicator of middle class, as it is unsustainable and really the definition of "emergency poverty." Another words, financially, nutritionally, health-wise, families cannot make it when consistently within 200% of the poverty line without help.

The middle class is actually also a bit of a myth created by school and the media. It is seen as the ideal when in fact, in truth, it is out of the generosity of the working class (basically being underpaid to do all the grunt work that someone has to do) that keep the gears of this country well-oiled.

superhawk2300 wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2008 at 12:27pm:

Here is something that staggers my mind. It seems to be infectious. It is the biggest "achivement" by our political leaders and it happens every year. Millions of lower-income bracket people voting for people who will raise their taxes, but not their own. I know a girl here in WI who is in the lower-income bracket and she said something to the effect of "I can't vote for Obama because he will tax people who make over 250,000 dollars a year. I will vote for Mc Cain". I was like, "Ok, so YOU'RE volenteering your money to give to the government then?!?!" I do not see why anyone who makes less than 250,000 would think this way. One thing is for sure, taxes will be raised to get us out of the mess Bush has gotten us into. The question is who wil pay. As a member of the middle-class I am sick of it being me. And I understand that taxing people who make less than me as mostly ineffective, as % wise they make so little the amount gained isn't that much AND more importantly the people in the lower income brakcets and the middle class SPEND the most money as they spread it around, thus stimulating the economy. 1% of 250,000 bucks is 2500 bucks. Anyone who makes a quarter of a million dollars a year should be able to afford a few thousand dollars more in taxes. Maybe they won't be able to go offraoding in the hummer every weekend anymore or will have to cancel one vacation this year. I am sure there are some who will actually feel it in a real way, but for everyone of them in this braket there are many who won't feel it at all. Becasue "those who make more than 250,000 a year" also include those who make millions a year. And it is these people that have reaped most of the benfits of the Wall Street mess in the last decade. People in the lowest tax bracket don't invest in Wall Street so why should they have to bail out people 10 times richer than them? 1% of 30,000 is 300 bucks. It will take a lot more people in this bracket to be taxes to have the same effect on the sitaution as taxing one person as above. Not to mention to those people making 30,000 a year - that 300 bucks might be the cost of food for a entire month. Buying goods on a daily basis is what this economy needs to stay strong. Giving tax breaks to the upper class just puts MY tax money in their BANK accounts which just devalues the few dollars I got left even more. It is a double whammy for the working guy. I want these people who have had money to gamble who excellerated this mess to bail themselves out!

Man, if I had a dime for every person who fell for this kind of class warfare BS...

How much per year do you think it takes for *ANY* employer to make to be able to employ a person?

Small business owners are almost automatically in the $250,000 bracket even if they are making no profits at all.

Now, who do you think loses their job when that employer is crushed with even more taxes, or being forced (like in San Francisco now) to buy health insurance for employees?  NOBODY WINS.  People lose job, plain and simple.  Businesses retract, shrink, tax revenues go down, EVERYBODY LOSES.

But, you know, that's just a evil capitalist theory.

Quote:

One thing is for sure, taxes will be raised to get us out of the mess Bush has gotten us into.

LOL

Old Dubya sure accomplished a lot considering he had no law making authority.

The Liberals have been in charge of making the rules for the past two years.  Why didn't they stop this from happening (aside from not wanting to lose their campaign contributions from Freddie & Fannie)?

Quote:

Small business owners are almost automatically in the $250,000 bracket even if they are making no profits at all.

I thought taxable income was on net, not gross income.

When I owned and operated a small business I earned over 250,000 a year, but my profit was far less than half of that. Add in the dedcutions I got for owning a business and my taxable income was a fraction of my gross income. That is what I paid taxes on.

When I worked for a small business that wasn't making a profit they really didn't worry about paying taxes.

I think when it is said that someone will raise taxes of people who make more than "X" amount, they are talking net income, not gross income, for income tax puroses.

Are we talking about the same thing here?

And I do beleive that 5% owns 80% of the wealth in the US. The only people saying the class war doesn't exist IMO is people who can afford to say so. To me the "middle class" is over taxed and had near nothing to do with the mess on wall street. The people who reaped the rewards the last boom decade should not have to be bailed out ny people who had nothing to do with it now that they have greedily ridden it to "bust".

Net income is what is left after you are taxed.  I would think that they are going by gross income.  

Or am I just confusicated? :P

I guess what I was trying to say is a small business is only taxed after its deductions and sale profits, in response to fubars statement that most small business make more than 250,000, even if they do not register a profit.

If the business owner isn't putting 250,000 in his pocket at the end of the day, his taxes are not going up because he did not make 250,000

I guess we need more details...

Details would just complicate everything.  Better just go with your gut on this and just stick it to the rich people.   ::)

Go 'Bama

I think this article from the Wall Street Journal puts it into perspective a little better concerning the Palin's income: START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

FU, you votin for Bama? ;D

There's a kind of almost reverse alturism that many people here put up with. These are people who certainly have nothing that would make them think that they would constitute a middle class. However, they are required to subscribe to the idea that by being Americans, they should be happy listening to the constant din that it's always their duty to put their well-being aside for a time and go out of the way to tell people that they are excited and happy to just be around those that do well so well. I've heard this all my life. I feel it too now and then. Somewhere along the way, it becomes part of us. It's not a socialist nor communistic thing to think otherwise, it's just that here, it's a crime not to be on the team, even if there isn't much chance to become a star.

Those that do get off the bench should be damned grateful that we feel this way.

I do feel it though and I don't know exactly what it comes from. This must be unique to our country.

Charlie, who hopes he hasn't gone bonkers

Has anyone read the book, "The Millionaire Next Door"? I can't think of the author, but it is a really good insight as to how lcose we all are to just this goal........but you'll never know who that person is......it's his neighbor with the flashy cars, boats, etc.........and a lot of msxed out credit.........

Nowadays, I think Middle Class is a state of mind....

Cathi

Wunder how classy we are? [smiley=happy.gif]

Melissa wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2008 at 7:32pm:

FU, you votin for Bama? ;D

I, for one, give thanks and praise for our new messiah and overlord.

I take back anything I ever said or wrote that could have been construed as negative or derogatory towards the magnificent one.  I once was blind, but now I see.  Thank you Obama, for Obama.  Peace be with you all.

Quote:

Has anyone read the book, "The Millionaire Next Door"?

Don't have to. He lives across the street. Jack is 82 and you would never know.

Charlie

Anyone constiuant who votes for any candiadte who will raise their taxes and not their own has NO right to complain that they pay high taxes.

That would be anyone voting for Obamo who makes more than 250,000.

And anyone voting for McCain who makes less than 250,000.

Actually, I think I am wrong here - I would be Obamo makes mroe than 250,000 a year so he would be raising his own taxes as well.......

This is why Fu, you and I, cannot see eye to eye. And neither is wrong. I never counted my wealth in millions, which I beleive you have if I remember correctly.

That being said, there is absolutly no reason we should be voting for the same candidate. I do not hold this against you, or think you stupid, or have any malice or desire to jump on you for your views, I just do not share the same views as we have nothing fiscally in common.

It would be a miracle if we found one common economic issue worth voting together on.

Be careful what you vote for, you might just get it.

For me, it often boils down to one or two things. Health care is the biggie for me and to adjust our sights when we go after terrorists. With Obama, even if his health care programs flop, the price of drugs will likely at least stay the same, not get worse. With McCain....Too risky.

McCain is a great guy but I think he confuses strategy with tactics and with his allowing the handlers of the GOP to stick him with Palin, he lost a lot of my respect.  :( I'm not all that convinced Obama has it right on Iraq but I trust Biden in that area. He knows what he's doing.

Charlie

Quote:

I, for one, give thanks and praise for our new messiah and overlord. I take back anything I ever said or wrote that could have been construed as negative or derogatory towards the magnificent one.  I once was blind, but now I see.  Thank you Obama, for Obama.  Peace be with you all.

;D  Yer killing me Shawn....OMG,  THAT is funny.

Linda_Howell wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2008 at 9:54pm:

Quote: I, for one, give thanks and praise for our new messiah and overlord. I take back anything I ever said or wrote that could have been construed as negative or derogatory towards the magnificent one.  I once was blind, but now I see.  Thank you Obama, for Obama.  Peace be with you all. ;D  Yer killing me Shawn....OMG,  THAT is funny.

That is more than funny!!!!!  [smiley=crackup.gif] [smiley=crackup.gif] [smiley=crackup.gif] [smiley=crackup.gif]

You bring up a valid point charles. When a vote is cast for one of the 2 main parties candidates, you are really voting for that party, not just the candidate.