Anyone who's been in the service has one or two old "army (insert branch of service here) buddies" they keep up with over the years. (I know I still keep up with a few (calls a few times a year - e-mails, etc).

When JKF ran for office, his PT-109 buddies were the first ones to step up to the plate to campaign for him and tell what a "hero" he was.

My question is -- where are McCain's buddies? We hear about him being a hero, but we don't hear about any "acts" of heroism.

I'm not knocking his service (and don't mean to start a row here) but I just know a lot of vets that are questioning this. They're saying they served (and a lot of them have the purple hearts to prove it). But when they returned, instead of coming home heros they were spit on and called "baby killers" for their service.

Over the past several years I've spent a lot of time at the VA hospital and have met a lot of Vietnam vets. Some with missing limbs and some really messed up. These guys were the ones fighting in the jungles (for whatever reason we had for being there). They came home - not as heros, but as the wounded (casualties of war) and are just NOW getting the treatment they need (it's only taken about 40 years to figure out they had problems).

Guess I just think too much...

Hugs BD

Quote:

We hear about him being a hero, but we don't hear about any "acts" of heroism.

The guy was fished out of a Hanoi lake with multiple broken bones and promptly bayoneted in the groin.  Spent 5 years in a Hanoi POW camp (no, not the Hanoi Hilton), was only broken once by his torturers.

Every one of those POWs is a hero and if you don't believe that, move the fuck to Iran!

Borb, this is about the dumbest thing you've ever posted.

BarbaraD wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 6:58am:

Guess I just think too much...

And the other problem is that you are a mere female ... a DAMN old one, at that!

Ok, as far as keeping up with my former Navy buddies ... There was only one that I kept up with, and he has died.  So there are none that I know of where they are, or what they are doing.

JFK was also Skipper of a VERY small boat ... a PT boat ... I imagine you would get to be very close with your crew mates on a boat of that size.  My ship was small, too, but no where that small.  We had a full crew of 327 enlisted, and 26 officers.  But if you are on a bird farm (air craft carrier) you have a crew of several thousand!

JFK was also VERY much younger, when he was running for president, so they were not that far off serving together.  With McCain's advanced age (yes, he is even older than I am) many could be dead by now, or over the years, they have just drifted apart.

This is said NOT to support McCain, but to explain why he may not have the fellow servicemen vouching for him.

I would not support someone who is running against MY vote for president: JONNY!!! My hunky husband to be)

Chuck

BarbaraD wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 6:58am:

I'm not knocking his service (and don't mean to start a row here) but I just know a lot of vets that are questioning this. They're saying they served (and a lot of them have the purple hearts to prove it).

Don't know if there is any medal for being a prisoner in that war, but what he went through is unquestionably heroic, being subject to whatever it took to break them.  
 Of the state where you hear off in the distance someone screaming in agony, only to realize soon later it is you.  It may not be purple but I have a very heavy heart for that.

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Like most of us, people from our past have different memories.  Some that went through that experience never want to remember.  I believe the reason you don't see them paraded in front of the press is because that's not John's way.  He would never exploit them for political gain.

Vote for him or not ... the man has character.

-Dennis-

Quote:

I believe the reason you don't see them paraded in front of the press is because that's not John's way.  He would never exploit them for political gain.

Exactly!  The Viet Nam heros are an elite group.  They know that.  That's why you don't hear them bragging about their service, they don't need to (except John Kerry but he was a phoney who fragged himself in the ass and accepted a purple heart for it).  We've got one right here in VietVet2Tours but you don't hear him bragging on what he did.

My hat's off to all of them.

Utterly

Fucking

Speechless

I don't stay in touch with any of my Army "buddies".

Edit to add - Although I do NOT support John McCain as a Presidential candidate, I do take a rather high level of offense to the tone of this post.  What that man endured in the name of freedom to be questioned in this manner is inexcusable and a slap in the face to every service member in the history of this once great nation.  It just goes to show that some people have no appreciation for what their own freedom costs some one else.  Most citizens are like pre-teens who have never worked a day in their life and get their money from mommy and daddy, but will never understand the value of a dollar until they do some real work.  Freedom works the same way except on a MUCH GRANDER scale......... *shakes head*

Due to his fathers position in the military the North Vietnamese were going to release him. He decided to stay there with his fellow POW's until the war was over. He chose confinement over freedom. Is that act of heroism enough?

Maybe the reason nobody brings that up is because they know better, but thanks for besmirching the guy who literally sacrificed his balls for your freedom.

You have to keep in mind just where you would hear from those guys too Barb. CNN? MSNBC? NYT? They aren't going to report that....they are to busy kissing Obama's ass and reporting on Palins shoes.

Wow......

I think over 5 years as a POW qualifies as an act of heroism.  I cannot even begin to imagine.....

Every vet I have ever met avoids talking about what they endured over in Vietnam.  I would not even feel comfortable asking.

Beth

I was NOT saying he wasn't a hero - I just asked a damn question. And WHY weren't those OTHERS who endured as much or MORE deemed heros also.

In my opinion anyone who went to Vietnam is a hero and should be deemed as such. I promise I NEVER spit on a soldier in my life....

BarbaraD wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:26am:

And WHY weren't those OTHERS who endured as much or MORE deemed heros also.

Ask the peacenicks and commies that are running this country.  In most REGULAR people's opinions, those OTHERS are deemed heros.  

John McCain had a coupleof men he was in the POW camp with speak about him at the convention and before.  You also have to remember that most of the time he was in the POW cages he was in solitary.  He had no "Army" buddies over there.  I remember a couple of the men talking about the times he was brought back from torture and he would give them a thumbs up sign, and was punished for it.  They werer not allowed to speak.

My best friend is a 26 yr veteran of the Marine Corps, and only got out because he was medically retired as a result of wounds suffered in Viet Nam.  He was awarded the Bronze Star, the Bronze Star with V for Valor, the Silver Star, each time for doing something to rescue another Marine under fire.  He knows what heroism is, but WILL NOT talk about it.  He has friends that he still keeps in contact with, but for the most part tries to put it all behind him.  BTW, he is supporting McCain, not because he believes in all of his political views, but because of CHARACTER.

You can always borrow brains, but you cannot borrow character.

Jerry

BarbaraD wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:26am:

I was NOT saying he wasn't a hero - I just asked a damn question. And WHY weren't those OTHERS who endured as much or MORE deemed heros also.

Who is saying they aren't considered heros?  You?  I didn't hear any but you ask the question.

I was saying to my husband that John McCain is such a soft spoken man.  He pointed out that his nature is likely due to his torture in Vietnam.  He was listening to a radio program and the host was commenting that McCain seemed to not ever "get tough" with Obamo at the debates and that it too may have been due to being conditioned not to cause confrontation.  

I think that ALL of those that serve in our military are heroes.  Especially POWs.   I KNOW that I could not have endured what McCain went through.  I am not a politically smart person but if loyalty and courage and love of country were prerequisites to be President, John McCain certainly qualifies in my book.  I believe that he is a man of character....like him or not.  

Jeannie

You know what I want to know?  I want to know that if I vote for Barak Obama, is that also a vote for Pelosi?  for Dodd?  for Frank?  I want to know if he is someone who can wield his veto according to the Constitution.  I want to know if he will call out those in his own party if they are wrong, and do it publicly.  

That's what I want to know.

Jeannie wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 12:06pm:

if loyalty and courage and love of country were prerequisites to be President

They should be............. pretty sad that they're not.

I've quite literally had to let my blood pressure settle down to a somewhat normal state before hitting the reply button.....



BarbaraD wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 6:58am:

My question is -- where are McCain's buddies? We hear about him being a hero, but we don't hear about any "acts" of heroism. I'm not knocking his service (and don't mean to start a row here) but I just know a lot of vets that are questioning this.

Really? Where are you hearing veterans question the heroism of a 5 year POW? Where Barb? I work around a good number of Obama supporters that are also vets, never once have I heard them question that aspect of his character. They may disagree with his politics, or have bought into the Obama mantra, but not a one has disrespected his military service.



BarbaraD wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:26am:

I was NOT saying he wasn't a hero - I just asked a damn question. And WHY weren't those OTHERS who endured as much or MORE deemed heros also.

They are.

As for "just asked a damn question"......  Would you be offended if someone were to ask you "What's it feel like to be a fucking idiot?"
You would? Why? All someone did was "asked a damn question".

I'm glad I'm on Verapamil or I'd have probably blow a gasket by now.

B

Let's not go overboard.  The question was offensive, but I'd stop short of calling Barb a fucking idiot.  We're all in this together.

wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 1:55pm:

Let's not go overboard.  The question was offensive, but I'd stop short of calling Barb a fucking idiot.  We're all in this together.

I didn't. Read it again.

I don't think he called Barb an idiot Shawn.  He was using one offensive question as an example of another offensive one.  

Now you have to bake us all cookies Barb ;)
thebb
Jonny,,can I have a cabinet position?

Am I the only one who wonders why people can't just answer her question without taking offense to it?  It was a freaking question and was answered very very well but there was no reason to go nuts.

Maybe I am not one who reads into things enough, but I took the question at face value and thought those that answered the question instead of taking offense did a good job.

I have always liked McCain and respected him for serving this country with honor.  I will be voting for him for that reason and also because I would rather McCain with a Democrat congress than a total Democrat control of government.

Anyway... the answer to the question is simple.... there are people willing to speak up for McCain but they just don't tend to make it on the news for 2 reasons (media bias and the fact McCain isn't looking to exploit it).

BarbaraD wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 6:58am:

My question is -- where are McCain's buddies? We hear about him being a hero, but we don't hear about any "acts" of heroism.

On the contrary, during the debates I thought McCain did a wonderful job describing his experience in the service and the POW camp.  In that speech, I heard plenty of things I would cosider 'acts' of heroism.

So, the fact is it is talked about, but Fram is right, barely anyone notices because of the two reasons he cited.

McCain is a hero.  Obama is a zero.

What heroic things has Obama ever done?  Anyone?  Anything at all?  Has he ever accomplished anything other than giving a good speech? He is a radical leftist that has succeeded in fooling a lot of people, I'll give him that.  

It is an interesting question but I'm not all that worried and I have no right discussing this from a military standpoint.

I will say that I believe that by the time McCain got back and was in such bad shape that he was nearly falling into the President when they met, that the draft had ended............. It's amazing that so much of the protests got rarer and rarer....gee what a surprise. I saw Veitnam vets being treated like shit at a midwestern airport decades ago. It was beyond sick.

McCain is a hero in every sense of the imagination. That he continues to serve reinforces it every day. Aside from what we all know, I wonder if he is in almost constant pain? I've never heard him go there.

Charlie

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????

BarbaraD wrote on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 7:32am:

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The Nation (ISSN 0027-8378) is a weekly[1] United States periodical devoted to politics and culture, self-described as "the flagship of the left."[ (Wikipedia)

Is this the source of that article???

I don't really know why you read this and thought it was worthy of being posted.  Nothing in it is all that bad.  YOU and I have no idea why that committee did what it did, so stop pretending this article in any indictment of McCain.

Finally, did you even read the most humorous part.  They are obviously a little politically motivated, read this and see if you find it funny:

The pressure from the families and Vietnam veterans finally forced the creation, in late 1991, of a Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs. The chairman was John Kerry. McCain, as a former POW, was its most pivotal member. In the end, the committee became part of the debunking machine.


So, the CHAIRMAN was John Kerry....... but McCain was most pivotal????  What a joke.  I guess John Kerry most exemplary service record and his strong leadership was overshadowed.

Also, go on to read some of the stuff about McCain, to me it shows what a true hero and man of integrity he really is.  His shame for giving a confession shows what a true hero he is and his deep love for his country (and his family).

After reading this I think it is time for the left to admit they are as sleazy and underhanded as the right..... their smears are just more accepted by the media.

Aside from the content, I'm not sure if it's from the Nation.....nothing wrong with the magazine as you have The Standard and many others.

I read it now and then at the library and on the stand.

Charlie

BarbaraD wrote on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 7:32am:

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It almost makes me cry when I see articles like that.  Seriously.  It is a shameful thing, and a perfect example of how the left media has gone comepletely off the rails.

Charlie wrote on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 2:06pm:

Aside from the content, I'm not sure if it's from the Nation.....nothing wrong with the magazine as you have The Standard and many others. I read it now and then at the library and on the stand. Charlie

You're not sure if it's from the Nation???

"Research support provided by the Investigative Fund of The Nation Institute. This is an expanded version, with primary documents attached, of a story that appears in the October 6, 2008 issue of The Nation. "

That was at the TOP right before the text.  Am I missing something here Charlie?

As for nothing being wrong with The Nation.  I'm sure it is "Fair and balanced" since it considers itself a flagship for the left.

 Go barrako!!!!

Let the holy wars continue! I am blown away that this is even a question.

 Viet Vet who talks little but remebers much.   John is a hero and I don't care who he runs with. Anything is much better then a teddy wannbe which is we will get with biden.

 BTW;I think Palin rocks!!! and yes Mellie it is! !   luv ya ....tim again

This one courtesy of our old frind Paco_

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