I'd be twice as stupid at half the salary.  Maybe I can't...but I could try.

Where do I sign up?

Turning off brain now.

Ste

27 mil a year and a private plane.....fuck, i'll just take the plane (as long as they paid for the gas)  ;)

SCUMBAGS!!!!!!

Give them NOTHING!!!!!  >:( >:( >:(

Edit to add: Whatever happen to failing?

Our kids now are not allowed to lose in a football/baseball game.....they just call it a draw.

Now we are not allowing that shit this high up on OUR backs?......Fuck them, let the chips fall where they fall!  >:( >:( >:(

They don't live in my world. I guess it would never occur to them to share one jet?  Poor things START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Charlie

Yea, they said on the news that it looked like three bums in tux’es showing up at the food line with tin cups in hand. >:(

Yeah.  Nardelli--the Chrysler CEO--did such a great job as CEO of Home Depot...

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

I think the taxpayer's money is safe, don't you?   ;D

Best,

George

I gotta agree with you guys, they looked pretty bad.

The bad thing is, here in Michigan we are all dependent on the big three one way or another and if they go down we will all be in the dumper.  You can see it now with small businesses closing up all over the place.
This is some strange times we are going through.

                                                       JPC

Ok, I can't see letting them fall, but they do need some NEW management. Where's Lee Iacoco when you really need him?

There are about 3 million jobs (and the trickle down) depending on them to keep going. The unions need to give some, the CEOs neeed to be replaced with some people who actually know what the hell they're doing. The salaries need to be "adjusted" and the "packages" need to be eliminated. Times are tuff....

But our country can't afford to lose the manufacturing jobs right now.

We've seen the effect in Shreveport with the GE plant. Taxpayers are paying unemployment for a lot of laid off people right now. And that's just one plant.

We've got a big problem right now alright, but right now letting the car manufactures fall I really don't think would be a good idea.

Hugs BD

Let me pose a question here.  Why are the foreign automobile makers doing so well?  Are unions part of the problem?  If I'm not mistaken, the foreign automakers are not unionized.

I found this little blurb, "Detroit News columnist Daniel Howes, citing people familiar with Ford's bargaining strategy, reported earlier Wednesday that Ford would seek to cut hourly labor costs by 30 percent, from about $71 to around $50, including wages, pension and health care.

The costs then would be comparable to those of Asian automakers ($42 per hour), who pay similar wages but have far lower pension and health care costs, and make thousands of dollars more per vehicle than the Detroit automakers do."

Found this from an article (09/08) from US Ranking News and Reviews

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Matthias Wissmann, current president of the VDA (an association of German automakers) told Reuters, "Low-cost government loans will not save U.S. automakers unless they restructure to put themselves on a more competitive footing."  He added, "If the U.S. car industry does not resolve its structural problems, then all the subsidies in the world won't help.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

And yes, I do realize that these foreign automakers were given huge incentive packages to locate their plants in whatever state they're located.

Hm.  Well, I'm pretty sure they're not spending $71 bucks an hour for the jobs they're shipping out to Mexico and wherever.  And with the US dollar's rise against the Canadian dollar, costs in their Canadadian assembly plants just keep getting lower.  Will heaving buckets of money at these jokers actually help?

Here's the best idea I've heard so far:

Don't give them any money at all.  Instead, require that the entire fleet of vehicles owned by the federal government be slated for replacement within four years with hybrid and plug-in electric vehicles.  

I've no doubt that some better-run companies would leap at the challenge, and could meet the demand.  What do you think the response of the "big three" might be?  I suspect that the whining would be impressive--and the demand would not, or could not be met by them, for a thousand elaborate reasons.

Best,

George

Gemba Kaizen - a rather novel concept....

Continuous improvement and low cost approach

The Japanese auto industry is making a huge profit for a reason, they live and breath this stuff, after my ex worked for a JIT Japanese supplier we learned alot about this approach - the US military is currently employing strategies of Gemba Kaizen as well.  Make the most of what you have by restructuring process to maximum efficiency and lowest cost.


Quote:

The Japanese word "KAIZEN" means improvement, improvements without spending much money, involving everyone from managers to workers, and using much common sense. The Japanese way encourages small improvements day after day, continuously. The key aspect of KAIZEN is that it is an on-going, never-ending improvement process. It's a soft and gradual method opposed to more usual western habits to scrap everything and start with new. Kaizen activities can be conducted in several ways. First and most common is to change worker's operations to make his job more productive, less tiring, more efficient or safer. To get his buy-in as well as significant improvement, worker is invited to cooperate, to reengineer by himself and with help of team mates or a Kaizen support group. The second way is to improve equipment, like installing foolproof devices and/or changing the machine layout. Third way is to improve procedures. All these alternatives can be combined in a broad improvement plan.            Anyway, the first stage is reviewing the current work standards to check the current performance and than estimate how and how much performance can still be improved. When new leap is done, upgrade the standards.            Kaizen is controlled; It is not acceptable to let anybody change designs, layouts or standards for some pretended "improvement". Most often Kaizen is controlled by improvement groups and everybody, regardless to rank or position, is encouraged to suggest trough suggestion submiting system (TEIAN in Japanese). Suggestions will be discussed by authoritative comittee. Suggestions likely to be turned into application are usually rewarded according to the global gain. Improvement idea can be a response to a problem exposed by KAIZEN comittee or come out spontaneously.

ETA:  It turns around and throws out the concept of throwing money at the problem as a bandaid and helps to actually solve the problems and create viable, profitable solutions.

Cat

Yeah, we're in a really nasty spot with the auto industry in the U.S.  What idiots to take their private planes!!!!!!   ::)

The U.S., over the past couple of decades, has basically become a service-oriented economy, and the autos are one of the few remaining industrial bases that we have located here.  NOT bailing them out means allowing them to go bankrupt (filing Chapter 11), and GM is quickly on its way there.  The problem with this is that they're capital intensive industries - and the UAW would likely be a real pain in the ass on giving up on claims against the companies.  Remember Delphi?  The auto parts supplier?  They filed for Chapter 11 back in 2005 - and they're still there.  

NY will survive the failure of Lehman and Bear Stearns - but what happens to MI, OH and IN if we force the big 3 into bankruptcy?  Michigan is already in trouble.  Its unemployment trust fund is already technically insolvent (less than three months of reserves).  Michigan is already facing a crisis.  Four other states are insolvent.  The number of people (in the U.S.) collecting state unemployment benefits hit a 25-year high of 3.84 million (on a seasonally adjusted basis).  !!!

Normally I'm not a fan of bailouts.  But who wants to buy a car from a bankrupt company when you have to worry if they can support the warranty?  And what happens to the resale market and the dealerships?  Service of the cars?  The consensus is that the US auto manufacturers need to shrink capacity by 40%. !! According to preliminary figures from the industry sales tracker Autodata, the seasonally adjusted annual sales rate plunged to 10.6 million - the lowest sales of autos here since February 1983.  Even last year the US was buying over a million cars a month.

It's not news that if allowed to fail, they'd need to deal with bankruptcy while recruiting new managers, corporate boards, restructuring labor relations - all while raising vast new sums of capital to invest in R&D and factory modernization for retooling.  

Sales by U.S. companies account for only 47% of domestic auto sales this year!  (10 years ago they had 70% of the domestic market).  So it's not like they've done a good job while NOT in bankruptcy!  The answer, clearly, is not just to hand them more money.  Just handing over federal loan money will not help with the high cost structure they've got given the UAW.

I don't know what the answer is.  I just know that we're all between a rock and hard place on this one.  

Laurie

George wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 9:26am:

Hm.  Well, I'm pretty sure they're not spending $71 bucks an hour for the jobs they're shipping out to Mexico and wherever.  And with the US dollar's rise against the Canadian dollar, costs in their Canadadian assembly plants just keep getting lower.  Will heaving buckets of money at these jokers actually help? Here's the best idea I've heard so far: Don't give them any money at all.  Instead, require that the entire fleet of vehicles owned by the federal government be slated for replacement within four years with hybrid and plug-in electric vehicles.   I've no doubt that some better-run companies would leap at the challenge, and could meet the demand.  What do you think the response of the "big three" might be?  I suspect that the whining would be impressive--and the demand would not, or could not be met by them, for a thousand elaborate reasons. Best, George

Maybe combine this idea with getting Japanese management in to run the Detroit 3.   [smiley=confused.gif]   :)

Laurie

that $71 figure is a little misleading.  That also includes what is paid out to retirees which the non big three car companies do not have to pay out.

However,  the UAW has to make concessions.

The problem as I see it is that the US government is all to ready to help other nations at building up their industries and inadvertently as well as intentionally help to ship our jobs overseas to markets that are closed or impeded to our goods. The meaning of deficit!

We showed Japan how to manufacture cars expecting them to fill the gap when gas was unavailable and fuel efficient cars were also unavailable. If our government had put Americans first and straightened out the US automakers back then, we would not be having this debate today.

Now we have to overcome the quality expectation curve because even though the US auto makers have dramatically improved their quality standards, it takes years to impress customers enough to return to the US auto products.

The bailout is useless if there is not a customer base to sell to, so the deal is a hole in the water before they even lay the keel.

Roland.

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 5:36pm:

We showed Japan how to manufacture cars expecting them to fill the gap when gas was unavailable and fuel efficient cars were also unavailable. If our government had put Americans first and straightened out the US automakers back then, we would not be having this debate today.

The Japanese took what knowledge was available here as used it to their advantage. They listened to Deming, that's where their dedication to quality came from. They manufactured small cars to suit their needs. The first Toyotas and Hondas to come to the USA were akin to steaming piles of poo to the American consumer base. Small, cramped,underpowered and lacking the creature comforts this market demanded. When those cars didn't sell well, they studied the US market and came back with much improved vehicles, but still sold to a niche market until the gas "crisis" of 1973.

After the Pinto and Vega (turds that they were), the US manufacturers were willing to let them have the "small car" market because they had the rest of the bases covered, or so they thought. The Asians moved up in to the big 3's territory slowly but surely. Arrogance was the big 3's mistake, they thought people would stay loyal and buy what ever they sold.


Quote:

Now we have to overcome the quality expectation curve because even though the US auto makers have dramatically improved their quality standards, it takes years to impress customers enough to return to the US auto products.

Perception is reality. The truth of the matter is Americans now look upon Japanese as bullet proof, even if they aren't. A couple of examples.....a guy I worked with purchased a new Pontiac in 1978. Twenty years and 250,000 trouble free miles later he finally bought a new car....a Nissan. I asked him why..... "I don't want any domestic junk."  :-/

Second example.... A joint venture between Chrysler and Mitsubishi manufactured the Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, and Plymouth Laser in a plant in Normal, IL. These cars were identical save for interior fabrics, some exterior trim and name plates. The Japanese nameplate consistantly ranked higher than the other 2 in customer satisfaction. Perception strikes again.

B

We will never easily reclaim what we so willingly gave away.

I have never owned anything but GM cars and trucks. And God willing, I never will.

Me and my outdated Chevy will keep on trucking!

Edit to add; Racer, I remember as a teenager when the first Honda cvic’s landed here and I thought they were snowmobiles with a car body attached! ;D

Roland.

I just saw that Toyota's CEO makes 1 million a year.\

I don't own an American brand car and I never will again.

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 6:59pm:

Edit to add; Racer, I remember as a teenager when the first Honda cvic’s landed here and I thought they were snowmobiles with a car body attached! ;D

I go one better.....the Honda 600 circa 1970. I'll bet the guy with the tuba didn't pull it out of one of those beauties.
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE


Not to leave Toyota out.....the 1957 Toyopet. And no, I don't remember this one when it was new.  ;)
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Makes me wanna run down to the dealership cash in hand......NOT!

B

Racer1_NC wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 7:20pm:

wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:59pm: Edit to add; Racer, I remember as a teenager when the first Honda cvic’s landed here and I thought they were snowmobiles with a car body attached! ;D I go one better.....the Honda 600 circa 1970. I'll bet the guy with the tuba didn't pull it out of one of those beauties. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE Not to leave Toyota out.....the 1957 Toyopet. And no, I don't remember this one when it was new.  ;) START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE Makes me wanna run down to the dealership cash in hand......NOT! B

Racer, I am still thinking about the look I would get from my husky if I were to tell him to get in the back seat of one of those old cvic’s without a shoe horn. ;D

It is inevitable that a bailout will eventually happen to save the economy.

HOWEVER, it is small business that employs most of the people in North America, and when small business has trouble, no one helps out...not even a tax break....where is the fairness?

Give a publicly traded company a handoutout and boost the value of their  failing stocks but dont help the small businessman who is busting his balls to make a living and pays his staff every week.

Paul

A bailout is definitely on the way but I have my doubts that we're gonna like it much.

They tell us that the Chrysler bailout actually made us money. Is that true? It would be nice though.

Charlie

Charlie wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 8:50pm:

A bailout is definitely on the way but I have my doubts that we're gonna like it much. They tell us that the Chrysler bailout actually made us money. Is that true? It would be nice though. Charlie

Yes it is true Charlie, but the hidden fact is that the military purchased a lot of those units bypassing the bid prosess to make the recovery posible.

Rolo ;)

In regard to the big 3 bailout... Jay Leno made a fairly good observation last night ... divide the bailout among each American with the stipulation they use the money to buy a car.

I like that idea.

with warm regards,
Tony

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 8:57pm:

In regard to the big 3 bailout... Jay Leno made a fairly good observation last night ... divide the bailout among each American with the stipulation they use the money to buy a (American) car. I like that idea. with warm regards, Tony

Fixed it for you Tony ;)

Thanks Rolo. I knew there was probably a catch.

Of course these geniuses probably will get their way because of the huge blow to national security.

As my old friend said in similar circumstances: "What we need is a good war."

Charlie

MITYRARE wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 7:39pm:

It is inevitable that a bailout will eventually happen to save the economy. HOWEVER, it is small business that employs most of the people in North America, and when small business has trouble, no one helps out...not even a tax break....where is the fairness? Give a publicly traded company a handoutout and boost the value of their  failing stocks but dont help the small businessman who is busting his balls to make a living and pays his staff every week. Paul

Excellent post!  [smiley=headbanger.gif]

..............Jonny (small biz owner)

And Jonny to elaborate just a bit if I may. Half the shit on a car is made by small business. The stickers, the shocks, the carpet, and so on. It is not a one stop shop that makes all the parts that come together in an assembly that you drive off the sales lot!

Might be an interesting experiment to see one of the big three actually fall and see who picks up the pieces.
You might find that Toyota, VW or Fiat buys it up, retool and bring prosperity and jobs back without the taxpayers paying the price.

Paul

MITYRARE wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 9:50pm:

Might be an interesting experiment to see one of the big three actually fall and see who picks up the pieces. You might find that Toyota, VW or Fiat buys it up, retool and bring prosperity and jobs back without the taxpayers paying the price. Paul

13 posts and I like this dude already!  [smiley=headbanger.gif]

Yea Jonny, but only if they can kick the unions out first! Daimler already has a hefty chunk of Chrysler and a big part of that had to do with union acceptance of Daimler. They will have to break the unions first. :'(

Just my $0.02, and practically worthless advice unless you’re a foreign investor looking to buy.

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 11:10pm:

Yea Jonny, but only if they can kick the unions out first! Daimler already has a hefty chunk of Chrysler and a big part of that had to do with union acceptance of Daimler. They will have to break the unions first. :'( Just my $0.02, and practically worthless advice unless you’re a foreign investor looking to buy.

The union is the damn problem.

MITYRARE wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 9:50pm:

Might be an interesting experiment to see one of the big three actually fall and see who picks up the pieces. You might find that Toyota, VW or Fiat buys it up, retool and bring prosperity and jobs back without the taxpayers paying the price. Paul

Actually what you'll probably see is one of the big 3 fail taking the over capacity out of the marketplace. The 2 that are left standing and the imports will divide up the cutomers of the corpse thus restoring balance to the marketplace. The notion that all 3 will go down if one goes is an unlikely scenario. In fact, if the above does happen, the companies left standing will have to add workers to meet demand. People that need vehicles won't walk because Chevrolet goes out of business, they'll buy a Ford, Dodge or Toyota.

I agree that the union is the problem, I feel for the Joe on the line loosing his pension, healthcare, and job in one foul swoop dude. I was in the electrical union and they screwed with us all the time about petty crap and lived it up on our dime! ;)

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 11:16pm:

wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 11:10pm: Yea Jonny, but only if they can kick the unions out first! Daimler already has a hefty chunk of Chrysler and a big part of that had to do with union acceptance of Daimler. They will have to break the unions first. :'( Just my $0.02, and practically worthless advice unless you’re a foreign investor looking to buy. The union is the damn problem.

Take a look at this video.....
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Kudos on the video Racer, thats how it's is!! >:( :( ::) ::) :-X

Edit to add; The variable here is how well will the fresh DNC nominees hold their backbones when it comes to the unions that paved their way to office? I know I'm not trying to be political here, just sensing the obvious. :)

another perspective
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

I do not blame the unions.
I BLAME MANAGEMANT.
Down the road from me here in Canada I have both a GM factory and a Honda factory...with family members working at both....GM unionized and Honda not....both make very similar wages and benefits (GM has slightly better benefits)
The difference is that if you are a floor sweeper at Honda you work 8 hours for 8 hours pay where if you are a floor sweeper at GM you work an hour or maybe two and your manager says "screw the company... go home and i'll punch your card out for you later"...or "go to the lunch room and watch the hockey game...its the Leafs and Habs tonight"....WHERE IS THE MANAGEMENT!!!!.

[/quote]

13 posts and I like this dude already!  [smiley=headbanger.gif]
[/quote]


27,950 posts ...how can you run a small business and post that much?!

MITYRARE wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 1:32pm:

13 posts and I like this dude already!  [smiley=headbanger.gif]
[/quote]


27,950 posts ...how can you run a small business and post that much?!
[/quote]

Microbrew, I mean micromanage. ;D

MITYRARE wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 1:32pm:

13 posts and I like this dude already!  [smiley=headbanger.gif]

Quote:

27,950 posts ...how can you run a small business and post that much?!

LMAO.....Ive been here everyday for ten years......that answer your question?   ;)

BTW: I never post from work! 8-)

Denny Hecker Closed 6 car dealerships and sold off 3.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

400 Minnesotans hit the breadline. [smiley=ohjez.gif]

The CEO's will be back in a month for another chance in Washington.

There are a lot of second and third tier companies built up here all around the big three, and then the dealerships like Rolo mentioned.  With all the companies involved it's far reaching, too many to even name and in themself, very large corporations.  They'll probably get something pretty restrictive from the gov in a month.

A MODERN PARABLE . .
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River.  Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.
On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat.  A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.
Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.
They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents, and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.
They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder.  It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower  There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment.  The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.
Sadly, The End.
Here's something else to think about:
Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages.
TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US.  The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.
Ford folks are still scratching their heads.
IF THIS WEREN'T TRUE, IT MIGHT BE FUNNY.

Of the Big Three, Chrysler is a privately-held company, and not a publicly-traded corporation.  In your opinions, does this change the dynamic of any potential bailout?

Best,

George

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

The numbers are a little out of date, but conceptually the same today. The 2007/2008 numbers will be available in February.

I could put some money in my savings account at $75. per hour. Nah, on second thought, it's only $150,000 per year. Chump change, huh......

Marc wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 10:36pm:

I could put some money in my savings account at $75. per hour. Nah, on second thought, it's only $150,000 per year. Chump change, huh......

Those numbers are surely the cost to the company after workers comp, taxes, Ins and the like. The big three’s employees would be flying Cessna’s to work if they all made $75 per hour. ;D

wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 11:11pm:

Marc wrote on Nov 23rd, 2008 at 10:36pm: I could put some money in my savings account at $75. per hour. Nah, on second thought, it's only $150,000 per year. Chump change, huh...... Those numbers are surely the cost to the company after workers comp, taxes, Ins and the like. The big three’s employees would be flying Cessna’s to work if they all made $75 per hour. ;D

If I recall, it's the total package....pay....bennies.....etc...

Bill is correct, those figures represent wages, pension and health care benefits.  Part of the problem with the Big 3 is that they are paying health care costs for their retirees.  

How many of *you* have a pension funded by your employer?  How many of you have your health care benefits fully funded by your employer?

from a news piece:


Quote:

If the government's rescue plan is a success, it could help bring stability to the entire financial system. If it doesn't, even deeper doubts about the industry's future could spread. After a weekend of marathon talks between Citigroup executives and top federal officials, the parties late Sunday night nailed down a package in which the government will help protect the company from its riskiest assets. Under the plan, Citigroup and the government have identified a pool of about $306 billion in troubled assets. Citigroup will absorb the first $29 billion in losses in that portfolio. After that, three government agencies — the Treasury Department, the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. — will take on any additional losses,though Citigroup could have to share a small portion of additional losses.

Another.  I've lost track of all of them, what comes after a thousand billion, a trillion?

Armegedon

How about OUCH going bankrupt?

Maybe Washington would like a chance to make money on us by giving us money.

Charlie

UNIONS=Extortionists with a license.

I would almost bet that the unions are self insured when it comes to medical insurance and that the non-unionized plants buy a plan from an insurance company (Like they all should)

$'s for the union employees coverage plan as part of their package go into a huge pool. That pool of money has to be managed and the claims paid out which is a huge number of people that are needed to manage this.

That huge number of people are YOU GUESSED IT, union employees who make a lot of money. So in essence all that they are doing is creating more union brotherhood jobs at everyones expense to keep their own coffers full for future generations of extortionists to run.

The unions way of doing things are so antiquated its unreal. I used to write those checks to the union on a monthly basis so I know what I am talking about. I could give many many examples of how they take and take and never give anything back.

If this keeps up, the only one that will be able to afford a big 3 car, are the ones that work in the plant that builds them. And that my friends will spell disaster for them.

Quote:

How many of *you* have a pension funded by your employer?  How many of you have your health care benefits fully funded by your employer?

I do.  I'm just a lowly state civil service worker.  The State I work for is hurting, Calif., but my retirement system, Calif. Public Employees Retirement System is healthy.  In times like this, Sacramento usually tries to raid the CalPERS coffers to bail themselves out!

anybody ever seen the movie tucker. this guy had all kinds of great ideas and they put his ass out of business. could it be that the big 3 is going bankrupt because the havent built a decant car in 25 years? a friend of mine had a grand am with a quad4 engine. the timing chain broke and the pistons came up and bent the valves. after taking it apart i realized that ac, ps, alt, smog pump were all ran of the cam wich was ran off the timing chain. it's hard for me to believe that an educated engineer could possibly be that stupid. if he would have continued to repair the engine he would be buying 16 valves, new head bolts, new chain, gaskets, and possibly a new head casting and a few pistons. it would seem that you would  design somthing in this way so that in 100,000 or so miles you'll be back to spend a thousand or so in parts and a few more thousand for service. my buddy ended up junking a 2003 grand am   with a cherry  body and interior. my lbor was gping to be free.

last couple times i  was in the detroit area, i hauled some die molds to honda in ohio and some transmission parts from borge warner to a toyota plant in  ky. i've also hauled several coils to these places. the only thing i've ever hauled for the big 3 is a load of machinery to el paso tx. and guess were that load was headed.

as for the uaw. when i was in truckdriving school 80% og the students were ex uaw members that lost thier job to mexico. they would tell me stories of workers clocking in and leavinf to go lay carpet and coming back to clock out. some guys would come in and play card. some guys would sleep in thier caif the big 3 is going out of business, it's thier own damn fualt. from the ceo's to the engineers to the not a very nice person union guys that won't unload your truck after 2 pm.

i agree with jonny. piss on em.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Will Detroit and the big 3 learn or are we just throwing money into the incinerator?

Maybe the politicians need to give 25 billion to Hyundai and Kia to buy up the leftover pieces of the big three. I am sure they have no problem hiring people here at decent wages and benefits and still turning healthy profits back into the US economy. At least they build cars that require half the fuel of what the big three build. The government would be saving the planet at the same time...Al Gore would be proud!

It's no longer 25 billion, it's now 34 billion. ::)

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

The beggars are on a road trip with their hybrids and are looking for a hand out so they can buy some Tesla’s for the ride home. ::)

I don’t know why the Federal Reserve doesn’t just buy them out? The government is going to need that floor space to print all the money it’s given out! What an assembly line, it will also help them get up to speed on the quantity of cash they will be printing in the near future.

[smiley=bulb.gif] [smiley=twocents.gif]