Hello everyone.

I have purposely started a new thread and not carried this on on the previous one I started in the hope it can be a fresh beginning.

I spoke at length to both DJ and Steph the other night and asked permission to present an idea I'd had to all of you.

I went away very upset on Sunday but determined to think, if I could of a solution but one we could ALL agree on and be involved with. No easy task!

I propose we have a "Code of Conduct.

A set of rules if you like, an agreement, by which we will act on ch.com.

It will need to cover
The way we act on the getting to know you board primarily
The meds and therapies board and the other "serious" boards.
The General Board and not forgetting..
The Alumni Board

We need to define what a troll is to all our satisfaction. To have a description of traits much as we do for CH traits.

IE Someone who posts that something you can buy OTC works for them is NOT a troll!!! Someone SELLING something on their own website IS.. see the difference?! I'm sure you can think of more though.

The big thing is, we can ALL have input. We can all say what we do like and don't like and would like to see as our accepted practices.

THEN we can form it into an agreement which we can all pledge to uphold. DJ has already suggested having a status like alumni status for those who agree to uphold the code.

So all that remains is to ask what you think, for your suggestions and for your work on cleaning up our happy home

Are YOU in??

Works for me.....

Yes.............most definately!  

Sounds good to me. :)

-P.

Excellent! GREAT IDEA! it can be kinda like the ten commandments of ch.com. It will give all involved a firm idea of what is both expected and what is not tolerated.

with warm regards,
Tony

I like it Helen.  I like it a lot.

:-*

-Dennis-

AMEN.... COUNT ME IN....

Lady Luv

Count me in, seems an appropriate way to alleviate some of the tense posts and scenarios that come up.

Cat

I agree and I am in !

I'm in, but can I have some cookies or something? Maybe a new oar, I have some green lookin stuff on mine :-/
all the best
the bb

You can count me in Helen.

P.S. Thankyou so much for your time & words over the phone, it means alot.

Dan

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 12:32pm:

I propose we have a "Code of Conduct. A set of rules if you like, an agreement, by which we will act on ch.com. Are YOU in??

I am sorry, but I can not find my self jumping into this venture.
If DJ and Steph. find it there for necessary to have me removed from the boards
I will respect the verdict, but I will not restrict my self to an “artificial” set of rules that I can not promises to obey….

Michael

You got it, Helen!! I am absolutely in!!
You know, it just would not  be right without you here!!!!!!!!!!! I believe you may have been my first "CH Sister"!!
deb
xo

Common sense would do ...

Oliver

Sure, why not. But I don't really think it's necessary
As it is, with the stroke of a key offending members can be removed.
Seems pretty simple and hardly used.
This board does a pretty good job of moderating itself. A bump in the road now and then is expected and will happen no matter how many rules we pledge to follow.

I am soo in agreement in theory, Helen! Being roughed up in order to belong here is common practice. People automatically go on the attack.  Clusterville is a place where ESPECIALLY new arrivals should feel safe....not challenged.
DJ has always functioned without "rules", per se, and people have been counted on to comport themselves appropriately. To the best of my recollection, in all these years, he has, when things got really bad, shut this place down............twice.
I guess I prefer people use the Honor System, rather than rules. Rules lead to consequences, then we have to have someone decide the offense and subsequent punishment. Of course, my suggestion won't work, either, and that's where we are all on our own, behaving as adults do, not judging and not attacking, but listening and understanding.
OK, so, full circle.....what now??

Cathi

I think it's a great idea. "Common Sense" should prevail.......but clearly of late it has not. Damn happy you're still here, need my witch fix now and then! ;)

Guiseppi

gizmo wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 2:28pm:

Common sense would do ... Oliver

I agree here. I think showing mutual respect is all that is needed. And most people already show that common respect.

While I'm sure there may be some specific ideas on how the members of this forum should act, doesn't it really come down to the golden rule? If there is a set of rules to go by, this board would have to be heavily moderated to enforce those rules. And what are the consequences when the rules are broken?

purpleydog wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 3:19pm:

gizmo wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 2:28pm: Common sense would do ... Oliver I agree here. I think showing mutual respect is all that is needed. And most people already show that common respect. While I'm sure there may be some specific ideas on how the members of this forum should act, doesn't it really come down to the golden rule? If there is a set of rules to go by, this board would have to be heavily moderated to enforce those rules. And what are the consequences when the rules are broken?

Well... in religion there are rules, say for instance the ten commandments. Some believe that when the ten commandments are broken and if the appropriate regret/remorse/plea for forgiveness has not been excersized to the appropriate parties ... then it goes to reason that they will be condemned to an eternity in hell.

I agree that the forum would have to be heavily moderated around the clock to enforce the rules. Perhaps a committee can be elected of moderators, whose job it will be to monitor the boards in shifts 24/7... or common sense would be good also.

with warm regards,
Tony

In

I belong to another message board The Catspause. (Kentucky basketball) When a thread starts going downhill fast or a fight breaks out, they lock the thread.

If a person comes on there and starts cussing someone out, or gets racist, homophobic, attacks someone for no reason, they get an email stating if it happens again, they were banned for 30 days in which time they could reapply.

DJ has shut down the board before and I always wondered why he didn't just ban the problem child for a few days instead.

This board is different though and assigning different mods would have to be done very carefully. Not everything is black and white, many times they are just different shades of gray.

What I DO intend to do is not set back silently when I see someone being abused. I am gonna start calling them out. Maybe if someone is being a bully, if 10-12 people rise up and bully the bully, maybe it will get better, maybe not. I think this is what Steph was trying to say a few months ago, that we need to be more pro-active and police ourselves.

Helen, you wanted discussion, this should do it lol.

I agree we shouldn't call names and be totally rude, especially to newbies.

When someone comes here and everyone agrees that, yes, thier remedy MAY work, it is just misleading others who are looking for answers. If you make a list of things that may have aborted at least ONE headache at one time, then EVERYTHING works.

Before finding this place I was told by everyone my whole life to lay down, try rubbing vicks on your chest, take a nap, don't think about it, take an aspirin, try this, try that, it worked for me, etc. Then I found this place and was so relieved that others understood Cluster Headaches and didn't try telling me to try some stupid remedy that I knew didn't work.

I believe this SET OF RULES all started because someone got upset about a person saying Pepsi works. Personally I've always liked the idea of communicating with others who HAVE Cluster Headaches.

This guy claimed that 700 Clusters Headaches where aborted by drinking 700 Pepsi's. I'm sorry, but either his wife doesn't have Clusters or something is very fishy about his Cure.

To stop people from stepping up and saying something IMHO defeats the purpose of the board. That's what I've always loved about Jonny; he can spot them a mile away.  ;)

OK, i've rambled long enough, but that's my take. I don't agree with the Code of Conduct. I've been here 6 years TODAY and the board has always worked itself out without a Code. I think there where only a couple of times DJ has stepped in to stop the fighting.

I'm checking out for a long spell and hope you all can work something out. As you all know, I'm in a very depressed state and may be for a long while and can't deal with this right now. Fortunately my Cluster Headaches went away around 10 days ago after 6 months. Before I sign off I would like to say:

THANK EVERYONE WHO SUPPORTED ME THROUGH MY ROUGH TIMES AND WHO CONTRIBUTED TO MY SON. THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME KEEP MEDS STOCKED TO LAST AS LONG AS THEY DID. I LOVE YOU ALL AND HOPE TO MEET UP AGAIN SOMEDAY.

BlueMeanie

I'm in.  I've belonged to a few messageboards and I've moderated a few message boards and they've all had *rules* that the members had to follow.  

wildhaus wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 2:16pm:

wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 12:32pm: I propose we have a "Code of Conduct. A set of rules if you like, an agreement, by which we will act on ch.com. Are YOU in?? I am sorry, but I can not find my self jumping into this venture. If DJ and Steph. find it there for necessary to have me removed from the boards I will respect the verdict, but I will not restrict my self to an “artificial” set of rules that I can not promises to obey…. Michael

I am trying to reply here with the utmost respect BUT I don't understand what your issue is with this.  You agree to terms and conditions on EVERY thing you sign up for or join.  The rules you agree to are "artificial" in nature and ALWAYS exist.  the only difference here is that they wish to define them better.   Currently, your posts are subject to DJ and Steph's "Artificial Rules" that if you didn't follow, they would take action.  The difference is that Dj and Steph RARELY take action, but they do, if needed.

Now, why not wait until you see the written rules before you object to them.  No matter where you are in person or on the internet, there are rules for conduct.  I know it is illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater if no fire exists.  It is illegal to jokingly or seriously discuss hijacking an airplane while at an airport.  

Anyway, I hope you stay here but I really don't understand your objection until the rules are defined and you have a specific rule to disagree with.

I hope this didn't come off antagonistic.  It was more meant as a question to your objection.

I am in.

The point I think some are missing is that this is something we need to DISCUSS and AGREE on - it's not a dictatorship and it's not a fait accompli.

This is something EVERYONE is welcome to contribute to with idea's

What we need is suggestions, thoughts, experiences and to draw a concensus from that.

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 3:30pm:

purpleydog wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 3:19pm: gizmo wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 2:28pm: Common sense would do ... Oliver I agree here. I think showing mutual respect is all that is needed. And most people already show that common respect. While I'm sure there may be some specific ideas on how the members of this forum should act, doesn't it really come down to the golden rule? If there is a set of rules to go by, this board would have to be heavily moderated to enforce those rules. And what are the consequences when the rules are broken? Well... in religion there are rules, say for instance the ten commandments. Some believe that when the ten commandments are broken and if the appropriate regret/remorse/plea for forgiveness has not been excersized to the appropriate parties ... then it goes to reason that they will be condemned to an eternity in hell. I agree that the forum would have to be heavily moderated around the clock to enforce the rules. Perhaps a committee can be elected of moderators, whose job it will be to monitor the boards in shifts 24/7... or common sense would be good also. with warm regards, Tony

I suppose when someone is treated with blatant disrespect (this is what the rules Helen is proposing really comes down to, treating others with respect), the offending person could be condemned to an eternity in hell. But I think this may be beyond the scope of what DJ and Steph are able to do.

I belonged to a board once where you couldn't send PM's, you couldn't post any links of any kind. You couldn't give out your email addy to anyone, nor an IM address. You could not just post what you thought, because it would offend the moderators, and one would be banned for that and for doing anything I listed. And if there was even a hint of attacking someone, the attacker was banned. If you said anything negative at all about anything, you'd get banned.


Quote:

DJ has shut down the board before and I always wondered why he didn't just ban the problem child for a few days instead. This board is different though and assigning different mods would have to be done very carefully. Not everything is black and white, many times they are just different shades of gray. What I DO intend to do is not set back silently when I see someone being abused. I am gonna start calling them out. Maybe if someone is being a bully, if 10-12 people rise up and bully the bully, maybe it will get better, maybe not. I think this is what Steph was trying to say a few months ago, that we need to be more pro-active and police ourselves.

Who guards the guards? Banning the problem child as fast as offensive posts are taken down takes about the same amount of time.

Jimi, is bullying the bully going to work? I remember when Steph said police ourselves. It doesn't work. The bullies continue on, and the pro-active are ignored or else singled out.

If all members of this board can't treat each other with respect, then having rules or codes of conduct or agreements won't mean much.

I don't think I'll give specific ideas, I'd likely be run out of here on a rail if I did.

I do know something has to give. When I came here back in 2003 one could log on at most anytime in a 24 hour period and see 3 lines of names of "users online" and if you didn't check in 2-3 times a day the new posts would stretch to the 2nd page.

I look back to the archives and see dozens of names that I don't see here anymore. While I'm sure there are many reasons....people do come and go...I can't help but think many aren't here because they found the BS too much to stomach or were simply run off by person or persons unknown.

Our "family" (if one must call it that) is shrinking when it should be growing and that's not a good thing.

B

Good questions Chris. Yes I think everyone would accept DJ and Steph banning someone for a time but anyone else having the authority to do it, not so much.


Some peoples personalities are different than others. You could take a comment I made and it not bother you and the same comment made by someone else would if you didn't care for that person.

Treating people as you want to be treated is the perferred way of course, and one that I subscribe to (or try to) but does it work on here? For some........not yet.   Will it ever? I don't know.

I would also like to add that if anyone has a point they would like raised but doesn't need the controversy of raising it - pm or email me.

I'll do it! I have no compunctions about it.

My aim is very simple. To create a nicer atmosphere to be in.

And another thing, lets keep this impersonal please.

No "naming names" or vilifying people. What's done is done, we're trying to move on not stick in the same rut.

I'd like it if we can discuss incidents but not those involved specifically as that way will descend into a free for all before we can blink. Hanging people now serves no purpose really, you throw a stone, one gets flung back and so on and it never ends.

Lets have a ceasefire.

How about

Do not post on the new board unless you can be constructive?

Please remember, new people finding this site are largely uneducated about CH, they do not have coping techniques and they do not have knowledge. Please try to help with all those issues instead of taking issue with the way they are trying to deal with CH currently.

We cannot prevent disagreements but can we at least moderate our language and personal attacks when airing differences?

Just to give people an idea of what other forums use for guidelines and rules, check this out.
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

This forum is popular (204,556 users) and reasonably moderated.

I'm not saying those rules are templet for Ch.com, but it'll give you an idea of how other boards are set up.

B

I'm in.


Kelly

Will I get banned for posting pictures that other people don't like?  ;)

Just adding a little levity...... carry on.

I don't like it!

With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me and I sure wouldn't welcome more "rules" here.

I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations.  It's served it's purpose well for the last 9 years.

Makes the place feel like home!

Marc wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 6:02pm:

Will I get banned for posting pictures that other people don't like?  ;) Just adding a little levity...... carry on.

YES!, that's just plain mean, so knock it off.......yeahh..that's it......post  some ugly pics for a change, wouldja??.. :D

Now, if you want to draw a line, I think tall people who take better pics than me should be automatically banned........ :P

Seriously, folks, we can not moderate what each and every person here has to say.and banishing some people for posting under duress(from the Beast) would surely be counterproductive. Fact is, mean people suck, so be nice..or, orr........that's where I get stuck! I can't even ground my children anymore, how would one prevent an adult-who could, BTW  be thousands of miles away......from posting meanness>?
When it was my turn, I apologized several times and the upshot was I should simply move on, I had no business here. I was a 'homewrecker"  and a dilletante who would run at the first opportunity. Well, that one, so far, has backfired. When it gets nasty around here, and I'd LIKE to leave, I remember when I was told to leave, and, when that didn't work, I was told I'd get bored and move on......I guess you could say orneriness keeps me here. I try to add to the positivity here and never use hurtful words or phrases. If something angers me, I avoid comment......I am noone's judge and jury.
Once again, I submit we go to that universal Golden Rule. Moderate yourselves. Think before posting. Love everyone, warts and all, and be a positive member of this community.

But, again, that's just me.......
'
Cathi

I'm not a CH.com alumnus, but I certainly wouldn't mind agreeing to rules/guidelines that ask people to be respectful or constructive in the "Cluster Headache Help & Support" forums. !!  

To be "self-policing" to the extent possible, long-time or frequent members can simply report offensive posts to the forum moderator(s) and from there?  Either the offensive post just gets deleted by the mod, or the poster is asked to modify the post?

I participate in and have been a moderator of a very heavily moderated/policed site.  There were two competing sites in the category.  The unmoderated site no longer exists.  Both were founded in 2000/2001.  The heavily moderated site now turns a profit (I know it's not a goal here) - but that is because it brings in advertising dollars with 167,319 threads, 2,409,045 posts, 30,241 members, of which 1,744 are active, and there are 50 - 100 "guests" seeking information on those forums at any given time.  Not suggesting the goals here be changed.  Just points to results in the difference between being welcoming to people (which was a problem there for a time) and trashing them because they're not yet educated to the subject.

One last thought - maybe in the "new visitors" section include info about how people here feel about using the word "cure?"  Then rather than trashing people, we simply have a link we can point to.

Laurie

Bob P wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 6:13pm:

I don't like it! With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me. I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations. Makes the place feel like home!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the idea was gravitating to just the "more serious" forums or in dealing with people new to the site?

Laurie

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Bob P wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 6:13pm:

I don't like it! With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me and I sure wouldn't welcome more "rules" here. I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations.  It's served it's purpose well for the last 9 years. Makes the place feel like home!

I agree 100%..... Lenny

I like common sense best but if you must deal with some kind of code, just make sure that it isn't like manditory sentencing. Don't overdo it.

I can get along without it though. DJ & Steph do rather well

Charlie

I guess if you post to folks, treat them as you would like to be treated.  It has worked for me on here.

Once again, people should not take things so personal all the time.  I don't see how some people can make it through a day in life sometimes.  Sorry, life isn't about you ALL the time.  In fact it seldom is!

The garbage I just ignore.  Delete button?  I don't need no stinkin delete button ;D

-P.

purpleydog wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 3:19pm:

I remember when Steph said police ourselves. It doesn't work. The bullies continue on, and the pro-active are ignored or else singled out. If all members of this board can't treat each other with respect, then having rules or codes of conduct or agreements won't mean much.

My sentiment exactly.  I too observed this dynamic on another board (older and much busier than CH.com) where members are to "self moderate".  It simply doesn't work, period.

99% of people are truly caring, compassionate, loving, and eager to help, especially on boards for medical conditions.  But the remaining 1%, bullies and meanies have no concept of "common sense".  Self-moderation only works if enough people are gutsy enough to point out rude and inappropriate behaviors AND the offending party is willing to be corrected.  But "normal" people tip toe around the bullies or just grab info and stay away, leaving the boards to the bullies to create the public image of belligerent environment.

It's said that there are 100 lurkers to ONE active member on busy & established public boards (I don't know the validity of it).  When civility, common sense, and mutual respect are not enforced, many of the 99% get disgusted and quietly slip away without further contributing to the collective knowledge and sharing of experiences.  We share the violent pain......but who wants clusterheads to be viewed as a bunch of hostile and classless meanies?  Must we take the frustration out on each other???

I don't have an answer to this dilemma of self-moderated public boards.  We can't change people who don't understand hurting and belittling another human being--let alone fellow sufferers--cannot be an acceptable behavior.  I however feel developing a code of conduct is a good idea.  The 99% won't need it, but it helps to have something official to refer to when necessary.  After witnessing and experiencing rudeness upon my return, I for one don't even know if CH.com has become an "anything goes, whatever you want to do with each other" site.

Apologies for the "dumping" part of my post.

I'm not usually wild about rules of any kind, even democratically designed ones but in a mostly unmoderated forum there has to be something to protect people

For me, the problem here has never been cranky or rude posts or pm's, it is when it gets personal and attacks the individual, not what they did or said or suggested.

It would help if things could be separated i.e. "You the person are fine, but I don't agree with what you say"

The classic example is the new person who genuinely comes here believing they have an answer or a treatment and want to share it (not the Alis of this world of course- he isn't genuine)
You all know they don't have the answer, but they don't!

Some people on here seem to find it impossible to disagree with a viewpoint without adding in really offensive personal comments and attacks (and believe me I know, she says with feeling)

No-one should be criticised for leaving if they are subjected to that.

Is there a wording of some "guideline" which could be used to respond to offensively personal posts?



W the B

What's the B stand for Wendy?  Dare I ask? :D

-P.

Wendy the Brit

(or Dubya da Bee as they used to call me here)

Ahh!

-P.

purpleydog wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 4:36pm:

If all members of this board can't treat each other with respect, then having rules or codes of conduct or agreements won't mean much.

Amen!

Bob P wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 6:13pm:

I don't like it! With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me and I sure wouldn't welcome more "rules" here. I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations.  It's served it's purpose well for the last 9 years. Makes the place feel like home!

Reminds me of a local dude who wants to post warning signs every five feet on our local intercoastal waterway because a family member fell in a hole.  'Rule pollution' as his personal therapy.  The only thing that happens with this place gets 'lawful and orderly' is people get bored and stop posting.

Bob P wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 6:13pm:

I don't like it! With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me and I sure wouldn't welcome more "rules" here. I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations.  It's served it's purpose well for the last 9 years. Makes the place feel like home!

Good Grief!! I find myself agreeing with Bob P once more!!! What's the world coming to?

DJ (and now Steph) have done a great job of moderating this board all these years. If someone finds fault - notify them and let them handle it.

As Jimi said, a thing said by one is going to be taken one way - by another - that's a different story altogether. Policing ain't gonna change human nature.

A "polite" PM about board "protocol" to an "offensive" (the word "cure" seems to be the latest "offense")  post might be a better solution that setting up a bunch of rules that will stiffle everyone.

Personally, I've always enjoyed the "freedom" of this board and being able to say whatever came to mind. I enjoy the political arguments even when I'm getting slammed and would hate to see this stopped.

I don't like to see a newbie (or an oldie for that matter) being put down (and will usually jump in when they are) for any reason (even when they have a "cure"). But I don't want to see people not getting help when they need it. That's the purpose of this board after all.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents...

Hugs BD

And I'll raise you 2 cents more.

I vote to leave it as it is.  I'm going to make my own "ignore" button, similar to the o2 pushers button.  Maybe that'll catch on and people will get the message. :D

Maybe we've finally learned a lesson here and will "chill" a little when we feel our temperatures rising.  I hope so.  

We've done a really great job with one newby here lately and I've watched to see when the hammer was going to hit him on the head.  Instead, our great people took him under their wing and really pulled this guy out of dispair, put up with a lot of nonsence and steared him in the right direction.  This certainly isn't the first time I've seen this, it's just the most recent.

When I made my first post, I was shocked with the hurtful first few answers I got. Then I just lurked for a while and felt out the personalities before I posted again. There was just too much good news for this searching newbie to walk away.  

We have a wonderful thing going here, especially with the catagories we have.  I've seen so much more good done than bad.  There's always someone who will help the newbie out when they're being ruffed up...until the newbie proves to be something they're not.

I do agree with the suggestion that DJ or Steph give an offending person time off rather than punishing the whole board, tho.

A time or two lately I've seen a newbie lambast an old timer for just asking a simple question.  It has bothered me because it wasn't deserved and I thought "wow, if they'd just  look at the number of posts a person has scored they'd know that the old timer must have done something right to be here so long and deserves a little respect".  We have a few old timers, well actually several, who have invested a lot of time and money in our brothers and sisters.  They have hearts of gold and are very protective, but if you push the wrong button.....run for the hills.

I've noticed that those who help out most in the "specialties rooms" are showing a great deal of patience with the newbies.  This is very encouraging and heart warming.

We have a good place here and as it's been said before, the mix of personalities and circumstances are bound to clash from time to time.  We/I need to practice a little more control and walk away form stickey situations.

If we stop adding fuel, the fire will go out.

I'm in. Not like it matter much anyways. It's simple people! If you don't like what others are saying, ignor them! They have to go away eventually. Isn't that what all of you tell your kids when they're dealing with a bully at school? The bullying needs to stop yes but if it can't then we have to deal with it respectively. What do I know though? I'm just a 16 year old supporter. :P If we really need to fight then maybe DJ and Steph should start up a Boxing Ring Section. Go in there and you're sure for a fight! :o (NOT my favorite option but one that's out there.) I like what Cathi_Pierce said. We're not the judge and jury. So lets stop acting like it. Again, just the opinion of a "kid" but still thought I'd throw it out there.

Broken

P.S. Good to know you're back mum. :-*

I agree in principle, if not in fact, but have been sickened to see so many screaming newbies come here seeking help and advice, only to be driven away because they've yet to learn 'our' language and 'our' protocols.

For the record, the word 'cure' has many meanings and only one of them refers to a permanent cessation of symptoms. It's perfectly OK to use words here like magic-bullet, universally acclaimed treatment and don't-leave-home-without-it, but that four-letter C-word (cure) guarantees your marching orders.

Witness what happened to Andy H, who only wanted to help.

'Chronic' is another perfect example. In medicine it means simply long-term (often given as three months or more) and it's only here at ch.com we insist it be an exact year with less than exactly a month off.  

Besides that, and in common speech, 'chronic' has taken on the meaning of 'severe' so newbies may well describe their headaches as 'chronic for three weeks' and need not be driven off the boards as a result. (You've only to read a newspaper to see, "Last week's cyclone resulted in chronic food shortages...").

As to the suggestion, "If a newbie can't handle a roughing up, they shouldn't be here", it sickens me to my gut.

I salute Lelimey for her intentions, along with those who brought up the subject of common sense, but I really think the answer lies in common courtesy.

And remembering what ch.com is all about.

BarbaraD wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 7:56am:

A "polite" PM about board "protocol" to an "offensive" (the word "cure" seems to be the latest "offense")  post might be a better solution that setting up a bunch of rules that will stiffle everyone.

I guess I really still don't get it.  What exactly is the difference between setting up a standard of conduct and "protocol"?  I mean realistically people are over-thinking this.

Protocol, rules, standard of conduct, forum code, terms and conditions...... aren't they all the same?  Don't ALL MBs have them (it has been a long time since I signed up here, but I assume I agreed to terms and conditions here when I signed up.

The key to any of these things is the way it is enforced.  Who here doesn't trust DJ, Steph and/or whoever they appoint to moderate/admin the MB fairly?  

I don't think this new proposal will change much nor do I want people's true personality to be stifled.  Why don't we all make suggestions as to what this will entail before we pass judgment.

I try to treat others with the same courtesy and respect in the same way as I would expect to be treated, whether as a newbie or a veteran. I was welcomed a little over two years ago with open arms and that was a very nice feeling. Since then I have tried to do my best to help others to help deal with this life altering pain called CH's.

If a protocol is in order to help with the newbies and to stop the veterans from leaving then I am 100% for it.

CH.com saved my life, and it must remain here for others trying to find some sort of sanity with their pain associated with CH's. That is my take on this matter.

   Barry :)

FramCire wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 4:27pm:

I am trying to reply here with the utmost respect BUT I don't understand what your issue is with this. It was more meant as a question to your objection.

I honestly have no „issue“, not that I know off….

I simply disagree with the need for a new set of rules, but that dose not makes me have an “issue”
all we need is, as Oliver puts it:


Quote:

gizmo wrote on Yesterday at 2:28pm: Common sense would do ... Oliver

and purpleydog (and often I disagree with her posts, and yet respect her point of view)  posted:


Quote:

purpleydog wrote on Yesterday at 4:36pm: If all members of this board can't treat each other with respect, then having rules or codes of conduct or agreements won't mean much.

with the term “artificial rules” I simply meant; rules that are added being “quick on the trigger” to specific situations, situations that some find disturbing, but not all! I am very happy with the job Steph and DJ are doing (moderating the boards) I find there judgment more then satisfactory, and do not see the need to question their judgment, by trying to impose new set of rules by some, on us all, again rules I don’t see a need for!
I am going to stay!, “little” issues as this will not make me rethink my interest and respect to every single one of “us”, I do not resort to threats of “divorcing” the boards just because my point of view is deferent or I disagree with situations or other point of view, I will continue to post and voice my opinion, the way I did until today, with the utmost respect, at times sarcastic, but with respect, trying to avoid crossing the fine line between proper language, and vulgarity,
something I believe I have done in the past, and intend to continue doing!


Michael

AussieBrian wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 10:04am:

I agree in principle, if not in fact, but have been sickened to see so many screaming newbies come here seeking help and advice, only to be driven away because they've yet to learn 'our' language and 'our' protocols. For the record, the word 'cure' has many meanings and only one of them refers to a permanent cessation of symptoms. It's perfectly OK to use words here like magic-bullet, universally acclaimed treatment and don't-leave-home-without-it, but that four-letter C-word (cure) guarantees your marching orders. Witness what happened to Andy H, who only wanted to help. 'Chronic' is another perfect example. In medicine it means simply long-term (often given as three months or more) and it's only here at ch.com we insist it be an exact year with less than exactly a month off.   Besides that, and in common speech, 'chronic' has taken on the meaning of 'severe' so newbies may well describe their headaches as 'chronic for three weeks' and need not be driven off the boards as a result. (You've only to read a newspaper to see, "Last week's cyclone resulted in chronic food shortages..."). As to the suggestion, "If a newbie can't handle a roughing up, they shouldn't be here", it sickens me to my gut. I salute Lelimey for her intentions, along with those who brought up the subject of common sense, but I really think the answer lies in common courtesy. And remembering what ch.com is all about.

Paul98 wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 8:54pm:

I guess if you post to folks, treat them as you would like to be treated.  It has worked for me on here. Once again, people should not take things so personal all the time.  I don't see how some people can make it through a day in life sometimes.  Sorry, life isn't about you ALL the time.  In fact it seldom is! The garbage I just ignore.  Delete button?  I don't need no stinkin delete button ;D -P.

Agreed!

-P.

ok got to drop a quick note then run brothers getting married.  i just wanted to tell all that I have been an a^^ to not relialize sorry can't spell.... I have been to condime all for the heartlessness of one.  Please forgive this newbie and please don't change how you post to one another there is freedom and healing in how all of you communitcate with oneanother and if that was changed just wouldn't be what it is.  Hope I made sense.  My brain hurts and my mind is spinning no ever thought they would tie the knot and only my husband and i are invited  long story..    and way please accept my words and I will check back in when I can if yall want me to.  ppattya

I must say I have been disgusted recently at the excessive disregard for common courtesy and basic lack of respect shown towards people, both new and old.

Not one of you fully understood this board the first day you arrived, yet you expect every single newbie that finds this place to know exactly which words to use to describe their pain.  If they don't speak exactly as you think they should, they are ridiculed and called a "TROLL".

Obviously, I'm not insinuating that every single person that shows up on this board sufferers from cluster headaches, but I do know that ALL people deserve more respect than some of the people in this group have been showing them, which reflects on the attitude of the entire board.

I've read all of your posts, and I'm not sure how I'm going to handle this just yet.  Obviously, self-policing doesn't work.  As for now, here are the changes that will be made:

1)  I will invite several people on this board to be Global Moderators.  Global Moderators will have limited privileges but will have the ability to lock and/or hide threads that get out of hand or to stop any personal attacks.  They will not have the ability to edit or delete profiles, but I will expect them to notify me if someone has crossed the line.  I will share my instructions to GM's with the board when I complete the list.

2)  NO ONE will call someone a "TROLL" unless I have so deemed their profile to "troll status".

Simple enough?

That is all for now...

DJ

All we would have to do is mind our manners and show a bit of compassion.....common courtesy if you will.  Blatant rudeness is simply ignorant on our part.  Cut people a little slack before we tear their butts off.  For some reason we don't seem to be able to do this.  Kinda pitiful really.

Jacks 8-)

Oh......the excuse of we're in pain so we're mean is a bunch of crap......

Hi DJ,

WHATEVER you decide works for me...I am just a guest here and honored to be so...

Several years ago I privately expressed my opinion of another members posts...the reply I got was "that's your opinion, others don't think so..if you dont like it don't read 'em". EXCELLENT advice and I took it and didn't read those...

"take what you need and leave the rest" is the best advice I have ever seen...

Jon

:-*

I'm feeling me some man-love.

Jackie wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 4:15pm:

Oh......the excuse of we're in pain so we're mean is a bunch of crap......

Amen.

DJ wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 3:36pm:

2)  NO ONE will call someone a "TROLL" unless I have so deemed their profile to "troll status". Simple enough? That is all for now... DJ

Umm Steph?

Permission to hug your husband please? LOL

Helen

Thank you DJ and Steph.
A society without rules is chaos.

JIm

Heartfelt thanks as always DJ

W the B

Tanyana wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 3:05pm:

ok got to drop a quick note then run brothers getting married.  i just wanted to tell all that I have been an a^^ to not relialize sorry can't spell.... I have been to condime all for the heartlessness of one.  Please forgive this newbie and please don't change how you post to one another there is freedom and healing in how all of you communitcate with oneanother and if that was changed just wouldn't be what it is.  Hope I made sense.  My brain hurts and my mind is spinning no ever thought they would tie the knot and only my husband and i are invited  long story..    and way please accept my words and I will check back in when I can if yall want me to.  ppattya

Not to worry.    :)

In some fashion or another, our differences will be settled--they always are.  

I regret that you had a negative early experience, but stick around.  I think it's very possible that after you get to know some people, you'll wonder why you ever thought you were unwelcome.

I favor keeping discussion as free and open as possible.  I've been on some heavily-moderated forums, and elaborate, draconian rules can smother the life out of discussion--which requires some back-and forth, not to mention some disagreement.  Sometimes disagreement has to get a little warm.  

On the other hand, I don't think it's unreasonable that people be advised that there are a few clear, simple lines that ought not to be crossed.  Not because anyone is trying to create a sort of Sunnybrook Farm where only happy thoughts are allowed--but because we know that certain (very specific) things that have been said here have created endless reams of crap.

I'm not very comfortable with some of the nastier things that get said--but more than anything, I get tired of the endless post-mortems about who killed who, and what constitutes being nasty.  Frankly, the autopsy is even worse than the murder.

If locking a thread or hiding it will cut all that short and put an end to it--good.

It's DJ and Steph's place.  If they want to perform that function themselves, or if they prefer to put mods in place, it's all good with me.

Besides--if the guidelines of any forum get too onerous for me, I'm free to go or stay, just as anyone else is.

All the best to all of you,

George  

wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 6:18pm:

Permission to hug your husband please? LOL

Permission granted!!    ;)

All we want is a "safe" place for sufferers to come, they (yourselves too at one time) have been misunderstood for so long, it would be a shame if they weren't understood or atleast heard out here!   :-/

Mrs Deej wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 11:30pm:

wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 6:18pm: Permission to hug your husband please? LOL Permission granted!!

Ummmmm .... Can I hug him too?  (And maybe a grope or two ...)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I hate to see the site being forced to be moderated more than it is, but I understand the reasoning, and especially your frustration and disappointment.  But, whatever your decisions are, I fully support them.  After all, it IS your sandbox, and we are just visitors here.  Squatter's rights don't apply.

Chuck (Who, I am ashamed to say, has been part of the problem)

jon019 wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 4:18pm:

"take what you need and leave the rest" is the best advice I have ever seen... Jon

Not directed toward you Jon, just my opinion of the the concept.

Sounds good on the surface but IMHO, is the worst advice given here and has been the cause for people allowing others to be abused and board members turning a blind eye.

Many people are now, and have always, turned this advice into, take what you need, and leave the board.

If you're at a dinner party and someone is being verbally abused to the point of tears, do you just turn away and look for a more friendly conversation to join in upon?

Are we a family, or a club? In a family, new people come in through childbirth or marriage, etc, and everyone welcomes them, gets to know them and shows them some respect. In a club, new people often have to pass some sort of initiation. They may need to pay some dues before getting some respect. Is this a family, or a club? I know what many people call it. I also know how many people treat it.

Bobw
Disrespecting and abusing a member, no matter how long they've been here, disrespects not only the site itself and it's purpose, but also the owner of the site.

Very succinctly put BobW!

Thanks DJ.

I have stayed away from the "getting to know ya" and Meds boards to much lately because I have not felt well enough to be patient with newbies and/or uninformed ones.  Therein I have become a part of the problem, and I'm sorry for that.  i guess we just tend to become a little self=centered at such times and don't reach out to others as we were reached out to  when we were the newbie/uninformed ones.  I know I asked some dumb questions and didn't know when to be quiet and listen.  (still don't)

Jerry

DJ wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 3:36pm:

1)  I will invite several people on this board to be Global Moderators.

I Accept the postion with pride, thank you!  8-)

Nice post Bob.

Perhsps the phase "take what you need and..." should be modified to read: "take what you need and then help someone else".  Those are the "dues" many, many here have paid over the years.  Seems pretty simple to me.  It dosn't have to cost $ and I have found that in helping others I have usually learned something in the process.

-P.

DJ,

works for me. I'm for anything which makes this a great place to be for all of us. :)

PF days to us all,
Sanna

You know.. I guess I'm going to say something, for what it's worth.. which may or may not be much, depending on who I am to you..

I've thought about this suggestion Helen.  I understand why its up here very well.

Haven't been around much lately, but its been a long time coming, for many reasons.  Never was a groupie, regardless of what people said to me, once upon a time.  Nonetheless, a recent decision of mine as it was important to my kid's education.  

Mainly, I have seen here and there, the posts where newbies are run off because they said the wrong thing at first, where they used the word cure, and didn't know that that's a bad word here.. later all being vindicated in some way or another.  Mostly, I never felt I had the right to jump in and say give someone a chance, even though I've been here for years now.  I bite my tongue 2,3 or 4 times, for fear of getting into it.  I recently fell prey to my own feelings on certain topics, not relevant in this sense, but still..let's just say, politics and religion are sensitive subjects (that's a no brainer).  

I first came here because someone I knew was afraid to really become a part of this community.. and needed some help getting info.  Since I'm not really shy..  8-).. I tried to do what I thought was a good thing.  I won't tell you what that led to but, here I still am.  Unfortunately, that person was never able to feel comfortable enough to chime in, here, and sadly, resorted to a terrible and self-destructive way to handle his CH.  I did what I could, in the end its up to the individual.  

I always wonder, what happens to all those people who come here, read, and say to themselves, are you kidding, I'm never becoming 'visible' as a member here.  They take the info they can use, and wing it, maybe never ever meeting another clusterhead.  The one thing I can say I know for sure, is that this website, has brought clusterheads together, in good ways, that has changed people's life, and made their quality of life so much better, and liveable, tolerable, and maybe changed their whole perspectives of doom around.  And its the people on here that have done that, by reaching out to one another, whomever they are, clusterheads, supporters, friends, from all over the world.  

I am a cynic, by nature, but I don't believe that people could really forget what it was like the first they day got here.  Or maybe they can?  The tears of joy to know they are not alone...ever again, that there were some alternatives to banging your head against the wall, or wishing for the end.  I think the cynicism slowly creeps in as you realize that its not all a feel-good forum, because there are those creeps who intend on trolling or destroying the good things they come across.  

Remember what it was like before you came here, before you as a supporter were able to obtain help for your loved one, before you as a clusterhead knew that you were not alone.  If you tapped into that every time you logged in, it might be a good way to temper your response to someone who could really be sitting on the edge.  

Patty

I am not sure how I feel about all this.

These complaints have been brought up before by others (and myself) dozend of times , but have fallen upon deaf ears or have been rebutted by "its just the way it is", and "people need to be able to handle themselves".

I suggested a "self-fulling" solution as recently as less than a month ago and heard those same things and more.

And this has nothing to do with Helen or her complaint, who knows I am very fond of her. I actually agree with her 100%.

But it does illustrate what I think is the underlying problem - there are different classes of people here that is decided based on nothing more than personal judgments and agendas. The "right" person says something and it is "oohhed" and "ahhed" over while it may have been something others have said and they expericed the opposite effect.

It is the Mob Mentality that kills this place. The hypocracy is so blatent at times it is staggering. Basically, if you get to be in the "in" crowd, you can behave like a troll as much as you want and you will get a blind eye from CH.com and the support from the other long-time posters here. The same things will be expressed from a lesser-time poster here some time later on and they will be chastised by that same group that supported the long time poster's same exact thoughts a few months back. I tried it to see and it is true I am sorry to say.

So now, there will be a group of long-time posters who will actually have control over what goes on? I guess I will put on my lip gloss and start looking for exposed rear-ends. This is not a judgment of whoever will be chosen as individuals, but as a collective group; the favortism and gossip here has always been rampant and in my opinon there are some long-time posters here whose behavior has had much more long term toxic than any troll we have faced.

I have seen users told the go kill themselves and I have been falsly accused as a pediphile on here in the past by users who were here a lot longer than I. I judge these to be serious situations that while are easy to deal with on-line in our little world of make-believe, those situations could have had drastic real-world consequesnces. If social services would have read was was falsely posted about me (anyone who knows an inch about me would know 100% better) and came and took my children I would have not wanted to be in their shoes, in the real world. Yes, that is a threat.

I also have actually been told, directly, that I have not been here long enough to have a valid opinon, and I need to know my place before I enter any posts.

This may sound harsh, but it is just my thoughts. I am not writing in anger or any such negative state. I just think that until the underlying issues that keep coming back to haunt this site are addressed nothing will change. In fact, depending on some small choices of a small few, this could only make the situation worse.

That being said, I will remain optimistic and continue to try to post at least one positive thing for evey negative one I post.

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Still.....I thought that DJ did all right before. He's blocked some stuff and for good reason. I trust his judgment.

Charlie

Glad you made the decision for global moderators DJ. The people you chose will do well, each of them have proven to be level headed and fair-minded. They certainly will have their work cut out for them.

At any rate... if people would just treat each other with the same respect they would use to treat their beloved mother or grandmother.. the global moderators jobs should be fairly easy.

Keep up the good work folks.

with warm regards,
Tony

superhawk2300 wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 7:55pm:

I am not sure how I feel about all this. These complaints have been brought up before by others (and myself) dozend of times , but have fallen upon deaf ears or have been rebutted by "its just the way it is", and "people need to be able to handle themselves". I suggested a "self-fulling" solution as recently as less than a month ago and heard those same things and more. And this has nothing to do with Helen or her complaint, who knows I am very fond of her. I actually agree with her 100%. But it does illustrate what I think is the underlying problem - there are different classes of people here that is decided based on nothing more than personal judgments and agendas. The "right" person says something and it is "oohhed" and "ahhed" over while it may have been something others have said and they expericed the opposite effect. It is the Mob Mentality that kills this place. The hypocracy is so blatent at times it is staggering. Basically, if you get to be in the "in" crowd, you can behave like a troll as much as you want and you will get a blind eye from CH.com and the support from the other long-time posters here. The same things will be expressed from a lesser-time poster here some time later on and they will be chastised by that same group that supported the long time poster's same exact thoughts a few months back. I tried it to see and it is true I am sorry to say. So now, there will be a group of long-time posters who will actually have control over what goes on? I guess I will put on my lip gloss and start looking for exposed rear-ends. This is not a judgment of whoever will be chosen as individuals, but as a collective group; the favortism and gossip here has always been rampant and in my opinon there are some long-time posters here whose behavior has had much more long term toxic than any troll we have faced. I have seen users told the go kill themselves and I have been falsly accused as a pediphile on here in the past by users who were here a lot longer than I. I judge these to be serious situations that while are easy to deal with on-line in our little world of make-believe, those situations could have had drastic real-world consequesnces. If social services would have read was was falsely posted about me (anyone who knows an inch about me would know 100% better) and came and took my children I would have not wanted to be in their shoes, in the real world. Yes, that is a threat. I also have actually been told, directly, that I have not been here long enough to have a valid opinon, and I need to know my place before I enter any posts. This may sound harsh, but it is just my thoughts. I am not writing in anger or any such negative state. I just think that until the underlying issues that keep coming back to haunt this site are addressed nothing will change. In fact, depending on some small choices of a small few, this could only make the situation worse. That being said, I will remain optimistic and continue to try to post at least one positive thing for evey negative one I post.

  Thanks DJ, you've always been a class act. Maybe things have just reached a critical mass of some kind, and this needs to be done. As always you have my support.
  As the Stoned Ranger said to his faithful companion Pronto in the great Tome "Life on the Edge of Traction" " Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. All the rest is merely commentary." Don't know if that has anything to do with this. But it sounds good.

Please be well
[smiley=smokin.gif]

if its not the way you like it bitch until it changes...or can I not say bitch now?

Mat wrote on Nov 24^th, 2008 at 10:39am:

if its not the way you like it bitch until it changes...or can I not say bitch now?

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Just kidding!   ;D
How's it going Mat?   START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

I'm keeping on keeping on.

This post reminds me of an article from the paper not long ago. The city is going to remove all the handicap signs and replace them with handicapable because someone didn't like that term. What a waste.

And BTW what about cluster buster information? Will that be banned now since it is illegal?

I'm a chronic cluster headache sufferer.
I guess now I'm "pain-free challenged" [got to keep it PC ya know].

;)

Good to hear Mat, hang in there.

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It's not about getting rid of anything or anyone...just plain good 'ol fashion RESPECT.  

These days there are added stressors with the economy and heated and important election.  There does seem to be elevated angst here amongst the family.  Times are tough.  Most of us react without even knowing we are over the top stressed out and say things that would be out of character.
Last week I found my shoulders somewhere up around my ears and my heart paplitating and real anxiety taking over.  My help came in the form of talking it out and not stuffing all my concern and the precieved lack of control that I have over my life.  (oh, and Jeff mixed me a good stiff drink:)
Breath, fix the things we can and have faith that the rest will work out.

Love you all,
Kimberly and Jeff

Here is my 2 cents and it won't be popular.

I disagree with the idea of rules and am a bit disapointed in DJ's strong armed approach to resolution. If he wants to play strong arm then ban the users who prey on people, who cause these arguments, or who use profanity for 30 days for the first offense. Then for life on the 3rd offense. Banning people from using "troll" will force them to use other terms such as maggot or leach to describe a similar type person.

By the way, what is your defintion of troll or offensive. I gaurantee that not everything that affends you will offend me.  

I have come and gone for over 10 years because of arguments of this nature. No plea for help or cries for attention from me and beleive me, I have a bit to cry about lately.

None the less I have followed a simple rule that I learned when I first came to this place in Feb 1998, which was "Take what you want and leave the rest."  Folks, it is that simple.

DJ, I humbly disgree.

TomM

Quote:

I have come and gone for over 10 years because of arguments of this nature. No plea for help or cries for attention from me

Not everyone is as solid as you are Tom. It's not about you and it's not about me. It's about the new people that have been coming on here lately and have been slammed for one reason or another and then disappeared, never to be heard of again.

Isn't the main priority of this board to help new people coming in, holding on to their last string of sanity and we step in and try to help?

I have been here for 10years myself. And I agree that this is nothing that hadn't happened before, but before,  DJ took down the site for a few days and I hated that. Who knows who was searching while we were down.

The only thing that has changed is that he has asked for help in this matter. We only will lock a thread when it gets to that point and nothing else. Hopefully it will never happen.

I think that is better than shutting it down again, don't you?

Good choices in both who was selected and who wasn't.
It's pretty sad that the man who gave us this site is being forced to even have to deal with this shit.  
Now we have put our friends in the unenviable position of being police. They didn't ask for it but they garciously accepted. I wish them the strength.  

Jimi wrote on Nov 24^th, 2008 at 3:29pm:

It's not about you and it's not about me. It's about the new people that have been coming on here lately and have been slammed for one reason or another and then disappeared, never to be heard of again. I have been here for 10years myself. And I agree that this is nothing that hadn't happened before, but before,  DJ took down the site for a few days and I hated that. Who knows who was searching while we were down. I think that is better than shutting it down again, don't you?

Jimi-

I respect you and many, many folks here on the board but humbly disagree. Why not ban those who are the abusive ones instead of taking away from everyone? That's like taking away TV from all of your children because one of your teenagers cursed at you.

I also know this is not about you and me. It's about the board and how to control it.

Edit to add: I realize this is DJ's place and what he say is what goes. I also understand what is done is done. I just wanted to voice my opinion in civil manner.
Thank you for listening.
TomM

karma wrote on Nov 24^th, 2008 at 3:36pm:

It's pretty sad that the man who gave us this site is being forced to even have to deal with this shit.

now THAT's the point none of us should lose here.  

No matter what is done, in a crowd this size, there is no way everyone is going to agree any one solution.

Ch.com will never be what it once was and Paco's thread is hugely insightful into that.  I wish we all could live by Den's suggestion of take what you need and leave the rest.  

Watchin the river flow....and quietly agreeing with Tom, without intending any disrepect to anyone else.  

What Margi said....

Hugs BD

See?  It's the testosterone that makes people aggressive! :D

Ditto what Margi said.

superhawk2300 wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 7:55pm:

But it does illustrate what I think is the underlying problem - there are different classes of people here that is decided based on nothing more than personal judgments and agendas. The "right" person says something and it is "oohhed" and "ahhed" over while it may have been something others have said and they expericed the opposite effect. It is the Mob Mentality that kills this place. The hypocracy is so blatent at times it is staggering. Basically, if you get to be in the "in" crowd, you can behave like a troll as much as you want and you will get a blind eye from CH.com and the support from the other long-time posters here. The same things will be expressed from a lesser-time poster here some time later on and they will be chastised by that same group that supported the long time poster's same exact thoughts a few months back. I tried it to see and it is true I am sorry to say. So now, there will be a group of long-time posters who will actually have control over what goes on? I guess I will put on my lip gloss and start looking for exposed rear-ends. This is not a judgment of whoever will be chosen as individuals, but as a collective group; the favortism and gossip here has always been rampant and in my opinon there are some long-time posters here whose behavior has had much more long term toxic than any troll we have faced. I have seen users told the go kill themselves and I have been falsly accused as a pediphile on here in the past by users who were here a lot longer than I. I judge these to be serious situations that while are easy to deal with on-line in our little world of make-believe, those situations could have had drastic real-world consequesnces. If social services would have read was was falsely posted about me (anyone who knows an inch about me would know 100% better) and came and took my children I would have not wanted to be in their shoes, in the real world. Yes, that is a threat. I also have actually been told, directly, that I have not been here long enough to have a valid opinon, and I need to know my place before I enter any posts. This may sound harsh, but it is just my thoughts. I am not writing in anger or any such negative state. I just think that until the underlying issues that keep coming back to haunt this site are addressed nothing will change. In fact, depending on some small choices of a small few, this could only make the situation worse. That being said, I will remain optimistic and continue to try to post at least one positive thing for evey negative one I post.

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you think although I also think something had to be done- just not sure what!

Speaking as an outsider who has also been wrongly and publicy accused by long term ch.com members of being everything from a "ch wannabee", to a troll to an alcoholic , this is a risk I see too with a group of moderators.

All forums develop "in crowds" and private languages and it isolates other people and scares new people which is definitely a problem here as many are pointing out.

Could the moderators be extra aware of this and perhaps not have too many public conversations with each other that other members who are not part of the "group" or are new cannot understand or join in with?

Probably only a perception thing, but online, perception is almost all anyone has.

W the B

First off, if you label one as a troll they are immediately going to double their efforts at bad behavior.

If their profile is deleted they will just make 3 new ones to troll you even more.

I feel the approach best for this is to just have DJ lock their ability to post for a week unannounced to others. Kind of like CH boot camp. If they can’t post then the antagonism will stop and everyone involved will have a cooling off.

We are all adults (well most of us anyway) and it is possible for us to show it!

I will reiterate that this site is and will be what we the users make of it.

LYG,

Roland. ;)

TomM wrote on Nov 24^th, 2008 at 3:04pm:

DJ, I humbly disgree.

Disagreement noted.

I have given this board more than 10 years of my life.  Some years I've spent here more than others.  That's probably part of the "problem" that others have mentioned.  I haven't looked over the board the last few years as closely as I did for a long time and it affected the atmosphere here.  The board has been left to police itself and it didn't work (for the most part).  For that, I apologize.

I am going to take time to raise my family.  To be the best husband I can for my wife... the best father for my children.  I've just asked some of our friends to look after the place since I can't be here all the time and I don't understand why some of you can't grasp the concept.  

Holy shit, none of the moderators have even touched a post yet and you refer to the position as if they are taking over complete control of the entire board.  Are you friggin' kidding me?  All they can do is lock threads and notify me so I can deal with it.

I would think you would all be grateful that there will be more responsible around to keep people from telling other people to go kill themselves.  To keep people from calling other people pediphiles.  Well, not to keep people from doing those things, but at least it should deter it from happening... and if it does, a moderator can lock the thread immediately and notifying someone who can do something more about it.

At least that sends a message to everyone on the board that this place RESPECTS itself as a community and RESPECTS the people that choose to spend some of their time here.

Moderators aren't going to ban anyone, they don't have the ability.  They aren't going to lock someone's thread because they typed a cuss word.  They aren't going to lock a thread because there is a heated discussion going on... as long as that heated discussion is respectful.  Anyone and everyone can respectfully agree to disagree.  Spit in someone's face and we'll have problems.

DJ

DJ wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 10:23pm:

[I have given this board more than 10 years of my life. . . . (snip) I am going to take time to raise my family.  To be the best husband I can for my wife... the best father for my children.  I've just asked some of our friends to look after the place since I can't be here all the time and I don't understand why some of you can't grasp the concept.

Well said Deej.  You deserve not to have to babysit adults!  Enjoy your family time.

That's why DJ’s the man! He’s got the little one to deal with (remember what that’s like ya all?) and this is the effect of his wasted time dealing with someone else’s kids that are fine when they stop by, but he wouldn’t want us all living with him 24/7.

Nuff said? :)