In an effort to be constructive I would like to open a discussion on a realtime forum with members of OUCH and it's executive board as well as board.

In another thread I noticed a link to the OUCH UK site. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE I navigated there and was delighted by what I saw. The website itself is well organized, easy to navigate, is uniform and consistent  in design and logic, thus making the site very user friendly.

I compared the OUCH UK's website design to the OUCH US's website design and found hands down that OUCH UK is far superior in terms of design and usability.

This is a constructive criticism and is not meant to offend or insult anyone

I suggested that OUCH US hired a professional web designer and developer to rebuild and maintain the site.... of course it would be under strict supervision and control of the OUCH US board.

Please take the time if you are an interested member of OUCH US and please offer here any comments and suggestions for the improvement of the OUCH US website. Your participation as an OUCH member is very much appreciated and valued.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

In my opinion....and mine is as valid as yours is,   OUCH-US  is professionally maintained, professionally designed and professionally monitered; we are very fortunate to have it all provided by a volunteer.   This is especially beneficial due to the limited funding OUCH recieves.

  Linda

Linda_Howell wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 1:38pm:

In my opinion....and mine is as valid as yours is,   OUCH-US  is professionally maintained, professionally designed and professionally monitered; we are very fortunate to have it all provided by a volunteer.   This is especially beneficial due to the limited funding OUCH recieves.   Linda

As a trained commercial artist/fine artist and graphic designer I may be looking at the design from a different perspective.

I appreciate your taking time to respond to this Linda... The dialogue and involvement of OUCH members and its officers is very necessary for what I feel is a very important issue concerning OUCH US.

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

Tony,

I definately agree that any improvement made to the site would be a good thing. I have checked all of the other sites listed as links and they all seem to be a bit more advanced. It seems a bit dull when first entering.

However, I agree with linda that the site has minimal funding and it may not be an option at this time. Seems like a catch 22 though. The more user friendly it is and the more interest is generates may create more donations and funding????  :-/ or not

Just my opinion

Gina

aubmari wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 3:22pm:

Tony, I definately agree that any improvement made to the site would be a good thing. I have checked all of the other sites listed as links and they all seem to be a bit more advanced. It seems a bit dull when first entering. However, I agree with linda that the site has minimal funding and it may not be an option at this time. Seems like a catch 22 though. The more user friendly it is and the more interest is generates may create more donations and funding????  :-/ or not Just my opinion Gina

Thank you Gina,

It's so refreshing to see someone taking a proactive stand in making OUCH US be the best that it can be. I agree that any improvement to the site would be a good thing and many will benefit as a result.

Can you be a little more specific in ways that you feel it may be tweaked in a low cost/way to make the improvements?

For instance, I found on the OUCH UK site that every page followed a consistent layout and that all of the sites navigational menus remained intact when moving about the site.

I found that on the OUCH US site... that although there was a wealth of information, one can easily get lost or loose the key menus.

What would you suggest as an improvement to the OUCH US site?

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

As always, OUCH welcomes constructive ideas, comments and suggestions.  Before this discussion gets too far along, let me explain some things that may help guide your discussion.  

1.  The OUCH website is for the dissemination of information about the diagnosis and treatment of cluster headaches, access to emotional and informational support and to report the activities of OUCH.  It is not designed or intended to be a source of entertainment.  

2.  Our members with dial-up are just as important and deserving of rapid access to information as are our members with broadband.  To that end the OUCH website is mostly text based to make the pages load quickly.  It contains very few graphics, Java, Flash and other bandwidth hogs that take forever for dial-uppers to load.  Speaking as a sufferer who was cursed with very slow dial-up (26.4k on a good day), it is important that this not change.

3.  With all the hacking, cracking, phishing, spamming, pop-up and other intrusive, offensive and/or destructive things being written into web pages via activex and similar controls across the net, people are turning off these controls in their browsers and many area afraid to, or simply refuse to, turn them back on.  For this reason, it was decided that the OUCH website would contain as little of this as possible.

4.  Frames are not used in the OUCH website as the use of frames keeps a lot of people from being able to bookmark web pages and return directly to the information they had accessed.  The first rewrite of the website was done using frames and after several complaints and much discussion, frames were abandoned.

5.  OUCH can not pay a web designer.  We simply cannot afford it.  Any services would have to be donated.

I hope this gives you some insight as to why the OUCH website isn't all flashy and fancy and describes the boundaries within which any changes would be made.

Mike

removed comment. geez, you can't throw a cat around here without hitting somebody in the face.

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 4:33pm:

As always, OUCH welcomes constructive ideas, comments and suggestions.  Before this discussion gets too far along, let me explain some things that may help guide your discussion.   1.  The OUCH website is for the dissemination of information about the diagnosis and treatment of cluster headaches, access to emotional and informational support and to report the activities of OUCH.  It is not designed or intended to be a source of entertainment.   I agree. It is not meant to be entertaining and it is not. 2.  Our members with dial-up are just as important and deserving of rapid access to information as are our members with broadband.  To that end the OUCH website is mostly text based to make the pages load quickly.  It contains very few graphics, Java, Flash and other bandwidth hogs that take forever for dial-uppers to load.  Speaking as a sufferer who was cursed with very slow dial-up (26.4k on a good day), it is important that this not change. I agree it should maintain the bare minimum of bandwidth consumption. That being said, those with dial-up still have to wait for a page to load... even if the pages are designed to use the absolute minimum of bandwidth. It is therefore crucial that the designer utilizes the users cache and maintain a consistent design throughout the entire site... OUCH US's site fails in this regard and can be improved to maximize efficiency for the bandwidth challenged. 3.  With all the hacking, cracking, phishing, spamming, pop-up and other intrusive, offensive and/or destructive things being written into web pages via activex and similar controls across the net, people are turning off these controls in their browsers and many area afraid to, or simply refuse to, turn them back on.  For this reason, it was decided that the OUCH website would contain as little of this as possible. Agreed, but all of the above mentioned do not make a well designed easy to navigate website... it can be written in good old fashioned html and still maintain consistency and ease of use. 4.  Frames are not used in the OUCH website as the use of frames keeps a lot of people from being able to bookmark web pages and return directly to the information they had accessed.  The first rewrite of the website was done using frames and after several complaints and much discussion, frames were abandoned. good 5.  OUCH can not pay a web designer.  We simply cannot afford it.  Any services would have to be donated. and it is a pleasure to make this contribution of time and professional input to help OUCH US in this way and in this matter.. I hope this gives you some insight as to why the OUCH website isn't all flashy and fancy and describes the boundaries within which any changes would be made. I agree... OUCH's website does not need to be flashy... it does need to be consistent and more easily navigated. I applaud the efforts you make Mike I know that you have put  a tremendous amount of time in. Mike

Not that this matters, but I think the dude (MOB) created the OUCK-UK site. Hes a cluster head and does that for a living, he built my site for free as a favor to a friend.

Like I said, that dont really matter in this conversation.  :P

Personally I see no difference in the 2 sites.
They both have a HOME page
They both have an ABOUT US page
They both have a NEWS page
They both have a page that is about clusterheadaches and about other headaches.
They both have a member's area and forum
They both have a donate now button
They both have a contact us link
and they both have join button.

Seems like the perfect making for a good site full of information!!

Oh yeah...they both have a search area too :)
Mast

After looking at OUCH US and comparing it to other sites, I have to agree that the other sites are more streamlined and much easier to navigate. I don't get the impression the other sites are for entertainment purposes, but for getting information about cluster headaches across to people that need it.

Tony, as a trained commercial artist, am I reading you right, are you saying you would be willing to donate your time and talent as an artist to designing the OUCH US site to be better looking, and more consistent in the way it looks? That donation of your time for OUCH's benefit would be a valued asset, I'm sure!

By the way, who is the webmaster of OUCH US?

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 5:04pm:

Not that this matters, but I think the dude (MOB) created the OUCK-UK site.

The new OUCH-UK website is created by  START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Both partners are active CH supporters.

Turnip

Turnip wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 9:05am:

wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 5:04pm: Not that this matters, but I think the dude (MOB) created the OUCK-UK site. The new OUCH-UK website is created by " turtelreality.co.uk " Both partners are active CH supporters. Turnip

What happen to MOB?

wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 9:21am:

Turnip wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 9:05am: wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 5:04pm: Not that this matters, but I think the dude (MOB) created the OUCK-UK site. The new OUCH-UK website is created by " turtelreality.co.uk " Both partners are active CH supporters. Turnip What happen to MOB?

Personal and inappropriate and not relevant to most people for posting pn here. It would be up to him to talk about it if he wanted to

pubgirl wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 9:24am:

wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 9:21am: Turnip wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 9:05am: wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 5:04pm: Not that this matters, but I think the dude (MOB) created the OUCK-UK site. The new OUCH-UK website is created by " turtelreality.co.uk " Both partners are active CH supporters. Turnip What happen to MOB? Personal and inappropriate and not relevant to most people for posting pn here. It would be up to him to talk about it if he wanted to

 

Were you asked a question? :D

wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 9:39am:

pubgirl wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 9:24am: wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 9:21am: Turnip wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 9:05am: wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 5:04pm: Not that this matters, but I think the dude (MOB) created the OUCK-UK site. The new OUCH-UK website is created by " turtelreality.co.uk " Both partners are active CH supporters. Turnip What happen to MOB? Personal and inappropriate and not relevant to most people for posting pn here. It would be up to him to talk about it if he wanted to   Were you asked a question? :D

No but you are asking one you know the answer to already so I dont know why you are asking it on here???

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 5:04pm:

Not that this matters, but I think the dude (MOB) created the OUCK-UK site. Hes a cluster head and does that for a living, he built my site for free as a favor to a friend. Like I said, that dont really matter in this conversation.  :P

Thank you Jonny. The name is duly noted... perhaps  someone on the OUCH board can take note and if they decide to  have it professionally handled he can be put on a list of possible candidates for the job.

with warm regards,
Tony

Mastifflvr28 wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 1:30am:

Personally I see no difference in the 2 sites. They both have a HOME page They both have an ABOUT US page They both have a NEWS page They both have a page that is about clusterheadaches and about other headaches. They both have a member's area and forum They both have a donate now button They both have a contact us link and they both have join button. Seems like the perfect making for a good site full of information!! Oh yeah...they both have a search area too :) Mast

Thank you for your input Mast. You are correct the first pages do have similar contents... If one were to navigate through the entire menu of the OUCH UK site they would see that each page has a consistent layout and menu, this leads to much less confusion.

On the other hand consistency is not the case with the OUCH US site.

with warm regards,
Tony

purpleydog wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 5:28am:

After looking at OUCH US and comparing it to other sites, I have to agree that the other sites are more streamlined and much easier to navigate. I don't get the impression the other sites are for entertainment purposes, but for getting information about cluster headaches across to people that need it. Tony, as a trained commercial artist, am I reading you right, are you saying you would be willing to donate your time and talent as an artist to designing the OUCH US site to be better looking, and more consistent in the way it looks? That donation of your time for OUCH's benefit would be a valued asset, I'm sure! By the way, who is the webmaster of OUCH US?

Thank you for your response Chris. You do see what I am referring to when I talk about consistency in design and how much easier it makes it to access the wealth of info.

I am delighted as a member of OUCH US to make this donation by taking my time to give this professional critique of the OUCH US website.

As a member I also feel that it would be a huge mistake not to have the site created and maintained by someone outside of the group for many ethical reasons.

Of course this is for the membership and the board to decide.

As to your question of who is the current webmaster... I don't know for sure at this time.

with warm regards,
Tony

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 5:00pm:

removed comment. geez, you can't throw a cat around here without hitting somebody in the face.

John,

I'm sorry you felt the need to remove your comment. For any organization to survive and flourish it takes participation as well as respect. I'm sorry if I in any way did something to make you feel less than appreciated or respected.

with warm regards,
Tony

IIRC Mike is the webmaster.

Oliver

gizmo wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 6:18am:

IIRC Mike is the webmaster. Oliver

Thank you for the information Oliver I did not want to make an error by making an assumption.

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

Turnip wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 9:05am:

wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 5:04pm: Not that this matters, but I think the dude (MOB) created the OUCK-UK site. The new OUCH-UK website is created by  START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE Both partners are active CH supporters. Turnip

Thank you for making that clarification Turnip. Your input is appreciated.

with warm regards,
Tony
[i]OUCH US member(/i)

Just in case anyone missed the announcement...

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

O.U.C.H. Website Ranked #1 Cluster Headache Website

       A study published Nov 13, 2007 in  "Headache - The Journal of Head and Face Pain," entitled "An Analysis of Cluster Headache Information Provided on Internet Websites" evaluated the quality of websites providing information on cluster headache to patients and doctors.  ... OUCH-US website was ranked as the overall number one website for providing cluster headache information to patients and doctors.  

Oh, and don't forget due to the hard work and diligence of the OUCH webmaster the site achieved HONcode accreditation.

Seems to me....OUCH is getting the job done.

Keep up the good work.


Donna

Donna_D. wrote on Nov 24^th, 2008 at 8:47am:

Just in case anyone missed the announcement... START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE O.U.C.H. Website Ranked #1 Cluster Headache Website        A study published Nov 13, 2007 in  "Headache - The Journal of Head and Face Pain," entitled "An Analysis of Cluster Headache Information Provided on Internet Websites" evaluated the quality of websites providing information on cluster headache to patients and doctors.  ... OUCH-US website was ranked as the overall number one website for providing cluster headache information to patients and doctors.   Oh, and don't forget due to the hard work and diligence of the OUCH webmaster the site achieved HONcode accreditation. Seems to me....OUCH is getting the job done. Keep up the good work. Donna

....and yet it fails to meet it's true potential... this is not a matter of re-inventing the wheel... just fixing the flat tire.

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

Maybe it is because I consider myself to be "computer stupid", but I think the site give me everything.  I have no problem moving thru, getting to where I want to be, and, as is probably evidenced by my many posts, I find the topics I need.  Personally, I wouldn't change a thing.  You do have to be considerate of the dial-up, I may be one soon and would enjoy it if I didn't have to go cut the grass before the next screen comes up.
Unless, as mentioned before, someone wants to donate the enormous amount of time and effort it would take to maintain this board.  Mike, thank you so much for all you do.

Louise

Don't get like ebay. Everybody spends too much time getting used to new shit and processes they come up with every few weeks. A real PITA.  8-)

I like it here.

Charlie

Just curious... What does OUCH US spend each year on all web related costs and fees?

... has anyone on the OUCH Board looked into what it would cost to have the site redesigned?

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 12:04pm:

Just curious... What does OUCH US spend each year on all web related costs and fees? ... has anyone on the OUCH Board looked into what it would cost to have the site redesigned? with warm regards, Tony OUCH US member

Not to be a PITA but would the amount being spent on the hosting and name fall under administration? Is it possible to see a breakdown of how much is actually spent on the website itself?


For those who are on broadband and can not receive a PDF with ease or view the attachment here is the version in text format.

_________________________________

Fiscal Year 2007
_________________________________

Beginning Balance......1301
Revenue
Donations..........................3796
Adjunct Sales......................667
Events
Convention........................2568
Auction...............................1074
Total Income.................8105

Expenses
Member Services............5428
Administration..................1376
Total Expenses............6804


Net Income..................1301

Ending Balance...........2602

____________________________________



The financial report I found on the site just gives broad outlines.

Thank you in advance.

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

modified for the bandwidth challenged.

I believe that financial information is private information and only made accessible to the members of OUCH-US.  I do not believe it should be posted here in public.

That's 4 cents worth of free opinion.

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 5:39pm:

I believe that financial information is private information and only made accessible to the members of OUCH-US.  I do not believe it should be posted here in public. That's 4 cents worth of free opinion.

Thank you Brian... the information posted is from a page accesible to the general public not a private area.... and this is a conversation addressed to OUCH US members and BOD by an OUCH US member.

Thanks again for your four cents worth.

I hope all is well with you.

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

Well Tony, I don't think I know the answer and you may have already done so, but if not, and if you really want to know this,  I would go to the OUCH board and ask them.

treasurer@ouch-us.org

mike.day@ouch-us.org

Oops, sorry Tony. I meant to link it.

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 5:39pm:

I believe that financial information is private information and only made accessible to the members of OUCH-US.  I do not believe it should be posted here in public. That's 4 cents worth of free opinion.

I don't want to stray far from the topic of the OUCH US website design, but since the topic of financing it came up I felt it was pertinent to know as a member how much is being spent on the existing site and what were the results if any when doing cost estimates for a redesign.

It seems that there are a couple laws regarding disclosure for NPO's

Maybe this link will shed light on them. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Thanks for your input Brian, I very much appreciate it.

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

Jimi wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 8:20pm:

Well Tony, I don't think I know the answer and you may have already done so, but if not, and if you really want to know this,  I would go to the OUCH board and ask them. treasurer@ouch-us.org mike.day@ouch-us.org Oops, sorry Tony. I meant to link it.

Jimi.

Thank you so much for your input it's very much appreciated. I can't seem to find a break down of the finances that will give me that information at the OUCH site... if you know where it might be would you please post it here.

Thanks in advance.

with warm regards,
Tony
OUCH US member

Sorry Tony, can't help you.

wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 8:31pm:

Jimi. Thank you so much for your input it's very much appreciated. I can't seem to find a break down of the finances that will give me that information at the OUCH site... if you know where it might be would you please post it here. Thanks in advance. with warm regards, Tony OUCH US member

This is an OUCH business matter and it needs to be taken to the OUCH webiste.  It doesn't have anything to do with ch.com and I'm tired of reading about it.

DJ