I have looked deeper into the idea of the use of soft drinks containing caffeine.  I have also talked to a pharmacologist to help me, and understand some things about caffeine and headaches.  I still do not see a correlation, other than a speculative correlation, as caffeine causes headaches, at more or less the same rate, as it can abort it.  Still, there is a tractable and reproducible, indication that caffeine could help as a plausible abortive alternative.
BUT:
I cannot see how one can abort one’s headaches with soft drinks containing caffeine.  The amount is so dismal that unless one is so sensitive to caffeine, that if that individual were to drink a normal cup of milk coffee he will go into a “caffeine flush”.  And furthermore, in order to achieve an abort of a CH episode, one would need to use so much of the discussed soft drink that at the end of the day it would very much “compliment” ones figure.
But, I don’t know. I am still searching the net.  Also a co-worker that is a chemist/pharmacologist (her father has CH) is looking in some more professional books and publications for related information, correlating soft drinks containing caffeine, and aborting headaches, but so far, without much of useful (reliable) information.
I have to add, that in a resent post the dictum posted, clamed, the CH episodes have been cured, and if I understand the post right, the soft drink containing caffeine is not used as an abortive, it is rather a preventive or even better, it is a CURE. I cannot find any reference to the quantities involved, in order to achieve the ultimate goal of cure, so I cannot even try and speculate.  But I do not think it is possible, not even remotely possible.  It must be some sort of a bizarre coincidence that the CH episodes subsided for whatever reason there is.  Due to the coincidence, the use of the drink and disappearance of CH has been (innocently) correlated to the use of the soft drink.
I have collected some data about the Quantities of Caffeine in various drinks:
       Product                  Serving size            Caffeine per serving (mg)            Caffeine per litre (mg
Coffee, Starbucks            Tall 12 U.S. fl oz            240                              650-700
Coffee, brewed                   207 mL (7 U.S. fl oz)            80–135                              386–652
Coffee, drip                  207 mL (7 U.S. fl oz)             115–175 555                        845
Coffee, espresso             44–60 mL (1.5-2 U.S. fl oz)      100                               1691–2254
Excedrin tablet                   1 tablet                        65                              N/A
Caffeine tablet (extra strength)       1 tablet                   200                              N/A
Red Bull                  250 mL (8.2 U.S. fl oz)            80                              320
Soft drink, Coca-Cola            355 mL (12 U.S. fl oz)             34                               96

I have no idea (or for that matter, can I believe) how it is possible to even logically argue that a soft drink can provide any relief, let alone be a cure for CH, unless one would drink about 21 liters (about 5 gallons) of the soft drink, per day just to be equivalent to a small espresso, or drink about 7 liters (about 2 gallons) of soft drink to be equivalent to a simple cup of coffee.
I find it absurd, to even argue that it is possible to abort a CH episode, let alone find cure, and imagine the “compliment” to ones figure with just 4 litres/1 gallon per day, as well as other adverse effects due to excessive use of such high Sucrose (disaccharide  C₁₂H₂₂O₁₁) use.


Michael

Not sure about the sodas alone. The energy drinks, which combine caffeine and taurine, have been getting a lot of attention lately as an abortive. I tried the energy drink route about 5 years ago and it did not work for me, however, and this gets a little lengthy!...

What has been working for me is a combination of the oxygen therapy for immediate relief, generally 6-8 minutes, combined with taking on oral cafergot, caffeine and ergotamine, which buys me long term relief. What I had found in th past is within 20 minutes of shutting down the 02, if I took nothing else, the beast was back.

After posting that one time, someone responded saying they did the same thing, only they used an energy drink instead of the cafergot for the long term relief after they shut the 02 down. I intend to try that next cycle, which thankfully hasn't come yet this year.

I think CH is different for everyone. (I know, earth shattering revelation there huh?) Some people, like me, go from 0-100 in as little as 7-10 minutes. Others feel the tingle and it builds for a bit longer. For them the caffeine and taurine by themselves might react with the body fast enough for them, because their version of CH peaks slower, leaving a larger window for caffeine/taurine influence.

Just my rambling thoughts....wishing you peace and some pf down time over there brother.

Guiseppi

Guiseppi,

The energy drinks are a totally deferent group of product, providing 2 ingredients that seem in combination
to provide relief at an on set of a CH episode, in combination with O2 or other methods, and seem to provide
total relief for some for the Shadows.
But do note the amount of caffeine in red bull and in Soft drinks…
Red Bull    250 mL (Serving size 8.2 U.S. fl oz)     80 per serving (mg)    320 Caffeine per litre (mg)
Soft drink    355 mL (Serving size 12 U.S. fl oz)     34 per serving (mg)    96 Caffeine per litre (mg)
and then add the Taurine “factor” and you get a plausible abortive method! I my self use it at times for shadows, I just distaste the “sticky” flavour of the energy drinks, but if needed I will go beck to it and use it, and yet I would question any one that would say that energy drinks can be used as preventive, or even better, provide full relive, that is a cure….

Michael

I have used mountain dew as an abortive. Works like coffee. You can also trigger a headache with mass quanities of caffeine. Used at the right time for the right reason it can save you alot of pain.
all the best
the bb

mountain dew, coke, pepsi, and root beer are all trigers for me ;)

Quote:

What has been working for me is a combination of the oxygen therapy for immediate relief, generally 6-8 minutes, combined with taking on oral cafergot, caffeine and ergotamine, which buys me long term relief.

Thats exactly what I did as well Guiseppi in my last 2 cycles. Except I used 1/3 cafergot suppository. It worked well during the day keeping my ha to about 1 a day. It didn't work so well at night even if I took it right before I went to bed.

On a side note, when your cycle was over, did you have a few nervous and sleepless nights as your body was trying to come back off the cafergot?

Oh big time Jimi!! Christy would wake up at 3:00 am and find me sorting tupperware drawers in the kitchen!!! I've never actually tried speed..........but cafergot has gotta be a close second!!! ;)

And back to the original post.......I have to agree I struggle with the concept that the small amount of caffeine in a single soda is sufficient to abort an attack. But being completely uneducated about chemistry, I don't have enough of a foundation to comment either!

Guiseppi

well at the moment I try to zap it (ch episodes) with 15Volt and about 0.4-20 milliamp…….
and some O2…..  and I am grateful, it dose give me some substantial relive
and all the coke we have and the Red-Bull, we use for mix drinks…… I am on
WWW, and some coffee, still no “drinking”, the only sin left for me is smoking….. well just a few a day.
a “man” needs a sin….  so I hold to my habit (sin) smoking!

Michael

I'm a heavy coffee drinker, so caffeine doesn't do anything for CH.  But those who get relief from caffeine should certainly look into the caffeine content in various drinks.  Withdrawal after the cycle may not be fun though.....caffeine sensitive folks need to gradually reduce.  And be careful of aspartame if one goes with "sugar free" sodas and energy drinks; aspartame triggers HA's for a lot of non-CH people.  I'm also lucky enough to abort CH with O2 very quickly, and I started using it as sort of a preventive measure if I feel any pressure in my head, whether it's a pre-CH shadow or a *normal* headache.

As far as taurine is concerned.......... it's not a bad idea for all of us to supplement it.  It's a good antioxidant, and I up my taurine intake during episodes to protect my heart and other organs from Verapamil.  It's cheap and considered pretty safe.

I'll consider adding L-carnitine in the next episode.

I know this may sound crazy but pickles especially sweet (bread and butter) pickles seem to help the reoccurring hit syndrome after a O2 abort for me. Could be the vinegar doing this.

PF time to all!

Roland  8-)

MrsT wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 4:51pm:

As far as taurine is concerned.......... it's not a bad idea for all of us to supplement it.  It's a good antioxidant, and I up my taurine intake during episodes to protect my heart and other organs from Verapamil.  It's cheap and considered pretty safe.

Ummmm.....not sure about "protecting heart from verapamil" where does that come from? From what I've read, it enhances the effect of verapamil, which may NOT be a good thing.

My treating neuro (headache specialist) made me promise NOT to take taurine as she says it is highly active in the brain and not nearly understood as to actions. She insists it PROLONGS or triggers ch episodes.

Full disclosure here...I have the utmost respect and regard for this doc, BUT have not been able to quit taurine. Makes me a liar so take from my take as you will...

Best,

Jon

Funny thing is that Taurine is actually a sedative.  I was taking it as a supplement during my cycle and I started to take it in the morning thinking it would help wake me up, but it made me crash.  So I took it at night and then it helped me get to sleep.  It must be how it interacts with the other stuff.  

wildhaus wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 8:17am:

I cannot see how one can abort one’s headaches with soft drinks containing caffeine.

You are failing to allow for the possibility that it isn't the caffeine at all, but could be the delivery system itself, instead.

I have a different theory on this subject. I believe that at least some of the people getting abortive relief from soft drinks and/or the energy drinks, would get similar results from simple ice water.
I think that much of the relief is due to the coldness of the drink. This can cool off (reduce swelling?) the vagus nerve.

For over 10 years now, some people with epilepsy have been getting relief from their seizures with a VNS. (Vagus Nerve Stimulator)

Just as some cluster people can get relief with anti-seizure meds, affecting the Vagus nerve with cold treatments may be doing the same sort of thing.
Drinking cold soda? Chugging cold Red Bull? Lot's of cold water? Breathing cold air? What do all these things have in common? Could it be the Vagus nerve?

I have tried in the past to find people that suffer from both epilepsy and clusters and that may have had a VNS inserted, to see if they saw relief from their clusters also, but no luck finding anyone yet. I still lurk in some Epilepsy message boards.

I also believe that this is at least part of the reason that people using the waterX3 treatment get abortive relief sometimes. There is a more widely believed theory behind the water working, but I often find myself outside the box all by myself.  ;)

People that either sweat a lot during their attacks or have gastrointestinal problems during cluster cycles might be more susceptible to getting relief by treating the vagus nerve, as this nerve has an effect on those events. It also produces acetylcholine which some theories connect up with clusters.
Deep breathing exercises such as diaphragmatic breathing, or Charlies breathing technique can have a positive effect on the vagus nerve, as well as clusters. There are many connections.

This is all just a theory but.......???

Bobw

MrsT wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 4:51pm:

As far as taurine is concerned.......... it's not a bad idea for all of us to supplement it.  It's a good antioxidant, and I up my taurine intake during episodes to protect my heart and other organs from Verapamil.  It's cheap and considered pretty safe.

WTF??? ...How long were you in med school?  ::)

Pinkfloyd wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 1:59am:

This is all just a theory but.......??? Bobw

A theory may be just another name for an opinion...I prefer "an educated guess". I'm with Bob on this one...

While I can't stand cold on my head or neck during a hit...the colder the drink the better it works for me...

As for deep breathing...after many years I have found that slow, deep breaths, while on O2, (at way lower lpm than many advocate) works  for me...

Besides the coldness of the soft drink, perhaps the low level of caffeine, I believe the sugars contained have an action too...Low blood sugar is a sure "trigger" for me...in high cycle I eat candy, which I don't normally do. It developed almost as a gut feel that I needed to, without thinking too much about it.

Aint no box big enough to contain what we need to think about and explore with this CH crap...so Bob, I don't think you're outside of any box except those containing small minds.

Thank you

Best,

Jon

Pinkfloyd wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 1:59am:

You are failing to allow for the possibility that it isn't the caffeine at all, but could be the delivery system itself, instead. I have a different theory on this subject. I believe that at least some of the people getting abortive relief from soft drinks and/or the energy drinks, would get similar results from simple ice water. I think that much of the relief is due to the coldness of the drink. This can cool off (reduce swelling?) the vagus nerve. Bobw

Bob, I was only, and only referring to a dictum in a post on this board, with reference to a soft drink, and the caffeine, I do separate Soft drinks from Energy drinks and the possible effect on CH.

But I see what you are trying to say, I have to say some of the theory is plausible

Michael

#1 - nowhere in that thread does Andy ref caffine.  Mearly says soda.

#2 - There's a tread near the bottom of the page where an article quotes Flash as calling LSD his miracle cure, "Flash was ridiculed by the cluster headache community for his "miracle cure"."  Doesn't look like he was hammered for his use of the word cure.  How the heck is Flash anyway, tell him I say hi. (or maybe in his case, high ;))

#3 - Caffine is usually combined with medicaions to speed the medication delivery throughout the body not because it has some effect on the condition.

#4 - I also go with Bob W on this one.

Pinkfloyd wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 1:59am:

wildhaus wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 8:17am: I cannot see how one can abort one’s headaches with soft drinks containing caffeine. You are failing to allow for the possibility that it isn't the caffeine at all, but could be the delivery system itself, instead. I have a different theory on this subject. I believe that at least some of the people getting abortive relief from soft drinks and/or the energy drinks, would get similar results from simple ice water. I think that much of the relief is due to the coldness of the drink. This can cool off (reduce swelling?) the vagus nerve. For over 10 years now, some people with epilepsy have been getting relief from their seizures with a VNS. (Vagus Nerve Stimulator) Just as some cluster people can get relief with anti-seizure meds, affecting the Vagus nerve with cold treatments may be doing the same sort of thing. Drinking cold soda? Chugging cold Red Bull? Lot's of cold water? Breathing cold air? What do all these things have in common? Could it be the Vagus nerve? I have tried in the past to find people that suffer from both epilepsy and clusters and that may have had a VNS inserted, to see if they saw relief from their clusters also, but no luck finding anyone yet. I still lurk in some Epilepsy message boards. I also believe that this is at least part of the reason that people using the waterX3 treatment get abortive relief sometimes. There is a more widely believed theory behind the water working, but I often find myself outside the box all by myself.  ;) People that either sweat a lot during their attacks or have gastrointestinal problems during cluster cycles might be more susceptible to getting relief by treating the vagus nerve, as this nerve has an effect on those events. It also produces acetylcholine which some theories connect up with clusters. Deep breathing exercises such as diaphragmatic breathing, or Charlies breathing technique can have a positive effect on the vagus nerve, as well as clusters. There are many connections. This is all just a theory but.......??? Bobw

Good point about the cold Bob.  For a long time have found benifit in cold.  Be it in drink or just lowering the body temp.  A long time ago I posted about trying to eat ice cream while getting hit.  My thought was if you could start to induce an "ice cream headache" it might jusst act an as abortive for the CH hit.

-P.

wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 5:13pm:

I know this may sound crazy but pickles especially sweet (bread and butter) pickles seem to help the reoccurring hit syndrome after a O2 abort for me. Could be the vinegar doing this. PF time to all! Roland  8-)

 Actually thats not so crazy I havn't tried it but pickles have alot more than just vinegar in them.  Before Gator aid football players would do shots of pickle juice during a game. :-?
 Phil

BTW, as Bob, the one with the monkey, mentioned LSD  and the other Bob, the one with the alternative way…..is a poster on this thread
I have got my self 2 new books, I will have to read the books, but I do have the 2 books and it seems very interesting reading, for the next few weeks (?),

1.) Handbuch der Rauschdrogen (Handbook of drug intoxicatio) (Taschenbuch)  Wolfgang Schmidbauer (Autor), Jürgen Vom Scheidt (Autor),)

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE
and

2.) LSD. Mein Sorgenkind: Die Entdeckung einer 'Wunderdroge' (Taschenbuch) (LSD: My Problem Child) Albert Hofmann (Autor)

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE


the first book is more of a hand book / guide into drugs and intoxication, the second is the story of Albert Hofmann and the LSD,
will be very interesting, I am looking forward to this adventure…..

Michael

jon019 wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 5:16pm:

Ummmm.....not sure about "protecting heart from verapamil" where does that come from? From what I've read, it enhances the effect of verapamil, which may NOT be a good thing.

I don't know about taurine enhancing the effect of Verapamil per se.  It acts like a calcium channel blocker but it stabilizes calcium balance and strengthens the heart muscles.  I recall reading a medical journal that presented a protocol that used taurine as a substitute of Verapamil after Verapamil was tapered off.  Of course taurine is a naturally occurring substance, so it doesn’t and shouldn’t work as strongly/well as Verapamil for hypertension.  But, if taurine (or any other nutrients) could possibly contribute to lowering BP to the point of reducing the Verapamil dosage, I much rather choose more foods and less drugs.

I won’t waste the space and bore you with the possible adverse effects of Verapamil as they’re all in the PDR.  Verapamil slows down the heart rate by inhibiting movement of calcium ions across cell walls.  Myocardinal muscles are depressed.  So the toxic effect of Verapamil *could* block the heart; although Verapamil poisoning may be uncommon, it’s not a bad idea to keep in mind what it possibly does to us negatively when the heart function is unnaturally altered.  My BP is pretty low to begin with, so my neuro and GP aren't TOO happy about me and Verapamil (I've never fainted on it tho).   It’s mostly metabolized in the liver.

While we need it to prevent/lessen CH, the heart is slowed down then I slam it by over-breathing of O2 and often with triptans.  No apologies for this protocol as I NEED it, but I personally think my heart is really beat up!  It’s not totally pointless that caffeine and nicotine intake is cautioned while on Verapamil  ;).

Physicians can’t be almighty (we all know that), and they can’t be trained in everything that goes into our bodies and know the unique individual differences.  I doubt many doctors would freak out if we binge at an oyster bar once in a while unless we’re allergic to shell fish.  100 g of oysters contains excess of 1,000 mg of taurine :).  And yes, taurine has anti-anxiety properties, by calming down the nerve cells---good to reduce the stress and anxiety of CH.  It’s getting more and more attention in the psychiatric/mental health circle.  

OK, I’ll stop.  I have emotional attachment to this amino acid for a reason (call me odd LOL).

Quote:

...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................OK, I’ll stop.  I have emotional attachment to this amino acid for a reason (call me odd LOL).

OK, you're really odd. (Let's see if I get banned)



How's Randy holding up through all of this?

M

Marc wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 10:15pm:

OK, you're really odd.

Thanks for the confirmation [smiley=bigtiny.gif].  I think my poor spouse is holding up okay for having a worthless wife.  But I know he's pretty tired of this like all my previous episodes.....you know, guys don't bitch about stuff like this??

MrsT wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 11:05pm:

[quote author=65495A4B280 link=1227359845/21#21 date=1227496551] I think my poor spouse is holding up okay for having a worthless wife.  But I know he's pretty tired of this like all my previous episodes.....you know, guys don't bitch about stuff like this??

Ya not worthless.....you have a physical condition that causes massive pain in your head. And us guys do b*&^% about it.....for a while anyway.  ;)

wildhaus wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 8:17am:

I have looked deeper into the idea of the use of soft drinks containing caffeine.  I have also talked to a pharmacologist to help me, and understand some things about caffeine and headaches.  I still do not see a correlation, other than a speculative correlation, as caffeine causes headaches, at more or less the same rate, as it can abort it.  Still, there is a tractable and reproducible, indication that caffeine could help as a plausible abortive alternative. Michael

This (caffeine, energy drinks, and well for that matter, elephant dung) IMHO are just psychosomatic acceptance of a situation that has worked out well in the past and expected to in the future. If you live with this condition daily for a few years you will quickly realize that you are spending more on energy drinks than oxygen will cost you, and peeing a lot more too…

Rolo  [smiley=smokin.gif]

I am one that caffeine helps when I'm getting hit. It won't abort a high kip, but it does help me with the low level hits and shadows. It will help take the edge off a higher kip level. Sometimes that is all I have available, I chug it, and have a smoke and try to get outside in the cold air.

I'm sensitive to caffeine, and don't drink much as a rule. But when I'm shadowing, or starting to get hit, I crave diet coke, I drink it right down and it helps me. I drink more then usual when in high cycle.

I remember threads in the past, where someone was getting hit, or in high cycle, and it was suggested to have their arsenal in place, and one of those things was caffeine.

It is a well known fact that strong coffee helps as a vaso-constrictor and was widely suggested to use before the energy drinks came along. Coffee is still suggested.

My point being this... if caffeine helps someone, and if a newbie posts that pepsi helps to kill a hit, or shadows, then I'm glad it helped them. They may not know yet why it works, but we are here to help educate. If it has helped over the years, then great. Is it possible that their hits aren't at as high of a kip level than others? I believe someone said this already, but when something works, we think it will work, and it works. Mind over CH? Maybe.

Why do we continue to beat this dead horse?

We need to remember that we are all different, and respond differently to different forms of treatment.

Can we let this go now?

I’m not saying that it should not be considered as a help along the way and I drink a pot or more a day myself. All I am putting forward is that it is in no way a crutch I will run for and the energy drinks did nothing for me. The man is a knocking so I’m off to the gas of life!

PFW’s,

Roland. [smiley=hammer.gif]

Add; F**K,S**T,F**K. K0-7 in 5 min w/snot running to saying goonight in 10 min on my best friend O2! LYG, ROLO ;)

Another theory.

With soda pop I would suspect its not just the caffeine that helps a CH attack at all but the co2 infused in drink.

I recall some past reading suggesting a 3 fold increase of serotonin release, due to co2, occurs in the gut with rapid consumption of a 12 oz soda pop

When a can of soda is is downed enough co2 gas is released to fill 3 or more cans of soda and it is rapidly expanded in the person just the same.  
Further study would be needed but an internal adjustment of serotonin and its effect on the brains receptors most certainly occurs.

If a diet soda with artificial sweeteners (aspertame et al.) is rapidly consumed all kinds of neurotonic and neurotoxic effects can happen in a very very short time (minutes) and the carbon dioxide would be a potential accelerator.

Maybe this action is powerfull enough to knock down a hit for many.

wrote on Nov 24^th, 2008 at 1:52am:

I’m not saying that it should not be considered as a help along the way and I drink a pot or more a day myself. All I am putting forward is that it is in no way a crutch I will run for and the energy drinks did nothing for me. The man is a knocking so I’m off to the gas of life! PFW’s, Roland. [smiley=hammer.gif] Add; F**K,S**T,F**K. K0-7 in 5 min w/snot running to saying goonight in 10 min on my best friend O2! LYG, ROLO ;)

Roland, I'm sorry you're getting slammed.  :'(  It sucks and I wish there was something I could do. I wasn't pointing out anyone in regard to my post, it was just a general statement. I'm glad the O2 works for you! :) I hope you can get some rest tonight.  [smiley=sleep.gif]


MJ wrote on Nov 24^th, 2008 at 2:04am:

Another theory. With soda pop I would suspect its not just the caffeine that helps a CH attack at all but the co2 infused in drink. I recall some past reading suggesting a 3 fold increase of serotonin release, due to co2, occurs in the gut with rapid consumption of a 12 oz soda pop When a can of soda is is downed enough co2 gas is released to fill 3 or more cans of soda and it is rapidly expanded in the person just the same.   Further study would be needed but an internal adjustment of serotonin and its effect on the brains receptors most certainly occurs. If a diet soda with artificial sweeteners (aspertame et al.) is rapidly consumed all kinds of neurotonic and neurotoxic effects can happen in a very very short time (minutes) and the carbon dioxide would be a potential accelerator. Maybe this action is powerfull enough to knock down a hit for many.

The CO2 gas in the soda, isn't that mostly belched out? I'm no scientist, but wouldn't having the CO2 gas be a problem for your body?

What kind of neurotonic, and neurotoxic effects are there?

Seems like everything we find that helps get rid of CH, or bring it down a bit has some sort of toxic effect on us (maybe toxic isn't the right word). Meds, OTC, or whatever... I know some choose to go without meds, but I don't think I could do that. Since I can't take O2 in to work with me, I gotta have something. Trex, caffeine in diet soda and a smoke and this time of the year, getting out in the cold air.

Off topic...


MrsT wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 9:07pm:

And yes, taurine has anti-anxiety properties, by calming down the nerve cells---good to reduce the stress and anxiety of CH.  It’s getting more and more attention in the psychiatric/mental health circle.

:-?

Ok, this is very interesting to me.  I'm not in cycle, but have an anxiety/panic disorder that magically disappeared 6 months after I gave birth in Feb this year after I started taking a taurine supplement (850mg) every night before bed along with my regular regimen.  I guess I was kinda hoping to stave off my cycle by doing this, and never correlated the end of my anxiety with the taurine.

:-/

HERE IS another theory of an opinion, wrapped in a belief, having to do with the comment of JonO19 about low blood sugar.
I SEE, looking at the information, this topic about hypoglycemia is somewhat controversial (so what's new?) but, among a raft of other reactions, headache is a manifestation of not having a proper level of glucose in one's blood. Eating a sweet pickle, or drinking a soda, may just be an instinctual way of raising one's blood sugar.
I KNOW one of the lifestyle changes I went thru after the dagnosis of CH was to stop fasting, and get a good breakfast. Since I have been into health foods over half my life I knew what a GOOD breakfast was but didn't practice the art. I stopped caffeine, got more sleep and now have been PF a few weeks... WE SHALL SEE.

wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 11:52pm:

This (caffeine, energy drinks, and well for that matter, elephant dung) IMHO are just psychosomatic acceptance of a situation that has worked out well in the past and expected to in the future. If you live with this condition daily for a few years you will quickly realize that you are spending more on energy drinks than oxygen will cost you, and peeing a lot more too… Rolo  [smiley=smokin.gif]

Hi Rolo,

A member of my family has a doctorate in pharmacology. We have had many conversations re the numerous meds I have been on for ch. Always, we discuss the potential of the "placebo" effect. It is a well known and absolutely accepted fact in the science. I hesitate to quote a percentage (am sure it's available on line somewhere)... 40% rings a bell but I wouldn't swear to it.

That said, the physiological effects of caffeine are fairly well understood...and jibe nicely with what clusterheads need...vasoconstriction. Personally, I don't care "how" it works,
but I know it does. And yes, I love my e-tank(s) and opti mask. O2 has saved my sanity and allowed me a "nearly" normal life. Sometimes I need both, sometimes one OR the other works. Sometimes, one or the other is unavailable. I keep all the bullets on hand (zomig ns is my rescue of last resort).

Best,

Jon (26+ yrs and counting, and I WOULD try the dumbo dung...got poop?)

jon019 wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 8:34pm:

wrote on Nov 23rd, 2008 at 11:52pm: This (caffeine, energy drinks, and well for that matter, elephant dung) IMHO are just psychosomatic acceptance of a situation that has worked out well in the past and expected to in the future. If you live with this condition daily for a few years you will quickly realize that you are spending more on energy drinks than oxygen will cost you, and peeing a lot more too… Rolo  [smiley=smokin.gif] Hi Rolo, A member of my family has a doctorate in pharmacology. We have had many conversations re the numerous meds I have been on for ch. Always, we discuss the potential of the "placebo" effect. It is a well known and absolutely accepted fact in the science. I hesitate to quote a percentage (am sure it's available on line somewhere)... 40% rings a bell but I wouldn't swear to it. That said, the physiological effects of caffeine are fairly well understood...and jibe nicely with what clusterheads need...vasoconstriction. Personally, I don't care "how" it works, but I know it does. And yes, I love my e-tank(s) and opti mask. O2 has saved my sanity and allowed me a "nearly" normal life. Sometimes I need both, sometimes one OR the other works. Sometimes, one or the other is unavailable. I keep all the bullets on hand (zomig ns is my rescue of last resort). Best, Jon (26+ yrs and counting, and I WOULD try the dumbo dung...got poop?)

I was drunk or close to it and working on an impending K7 when I wrote that and I think I tried to calm it down a bit in the next post on the thread. Sorry for looking at it through my eyes without adding the (everyone is different) variable.

Rolo..the DA… [smiley=ohjez.gif]

ROLO!

It's cool...no worries mate...

Best,

Jon ;)

Interesting thread with thoughtful responses. I'd like to share my working hypothesis on it.

I prefer throwback Pepsi as it's made with sugar and not HFCS. If I can't get a sugar based soda I'll go with an HFCS soda, preferably fountain because of the overblown "crispness" of the taste. (Only word I can think of that describes it.)

I think the caffeine amount is negligible, as I'm a former hardcore coffee drinker who still drinks tea like a fiend. I think of it as a pain gating tool. The pain gate folks posit the brain can only handle so much information, so treating pain with a pleasurable conterpart can reduce the amount of "bandwidth" available for the pain. The sugar causes a dopamine release which gives a slight euphoric feeling that makes the pain more bearable. For me it's only effective of it's not a massively painful CH. I can't say it's an abortive per se, but more like a quickie low grade pain med that doesn't create a rebound effect.

I find the use of O2 to abort, early on, is very effective.  Made moreso, if the hit is a moderate Kip with a sugar free energy drink.  I don't like cold drinks so my drinks are non-carbonated and room temperature.  I also use the energy drinks as a first line abortive when out and about on the trails (O2 is not all that convenient).  If the Kip is high, I use Imitrix injections.  But, the energy drinks have been quite effective and do not keep me awake, even in the middle of the night!  I am also a dedicated coffee drinker so it is not about the caffeine.  It is the combination of taurine and caffeine and early on that does the beast harm.  Of course, when in good health, the D3 regimen is the best for me as I don't get visits from the beast.  I am looking forward to a return to good health soon (just diagnosed with shingles last Thursday so my system is OFF)! :(

Emjay wrote on Feb 17^th, 2014 at 4:25pm:

I don't like cold drinks so my drinks are non-carbonated and room temperature.

Any reason for the non-carbonation? I suspect that the carbonation helps increase the abosorbtion, just as drinking sparkling wine will get you drunk quicker than non-sparkling wine.

In addition to not liking carbonated beverages, the energy drinks seem to work for me as mentioned.  I also can inhale
them pretty quickly this way!