Hi.  I just registered for this site and love someone who has been suffering horribly with CH for about 4 years now.  I apologize in advance if I've pklaced this post in the wrong section.

They've become chronic and he doesn't have many PF days. He's seen many doctors, including a research doctor at UVA Neurology Center. They've tried him on this and that, and the only thing that seems to help is Imitrex. Of course the month's supply that insurance will cover only lasts 4 days if he's lucky and only uses part of the injection per CH.

I have been doing extensive research and it seems that smoking crack can abort. Of course that's not an option. However you can buy powdered lidocaine.

Have any of you tried smoking powdered lidocaine? He's had no luck with putting it up his nose.

Thanks for any advice anyone can offer.

Welcome Lydia!

has he tried O2 yet?

Oliver

Dear Lydia:

Welcome to the site.  I would think that the smoking of a local anesthetic would NOT help.  If you have a loved one with or without CH, please stay away from street drugs (ie. eg: Crack).

Wishing you well,

Ray

Lydia64 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2009 at 4:17pm:

I have been doing extensive research and it seems that smoking crack can abort.

Just wondering if you have a link to this information? :-?

I've never seen powdered lidocaine, but I would think that smoking it would be a very, very bad idea. He doesn't need a general nerve numbing throughout his body, he needs something to target the problem.

I would suggest oxygen first. Oxygen works for 87% of male sufferers (under 60% for females)  according to the most well known study. In order to get maximum benefit, it’s critical to use it right – read the info available on this site.

If he’s at wits end now – many of us use welding oxygen because it’s the same product as medical oxygen and it’s readily available while you are waiting for his doctor to give him a prescription.

Marc

Smoking Crack to abort a cluster... HMMM Why didnt i think of that. Where the Hell is Potter when you need him... Coach Bill

Actually there's a basis behind that. I don't agree with it, as crack / coccaine is FREAKING GODAWFUL.

The thing is, locally? Coccaine is used as an anesthetic in sinus surgery. It's a powerful vasoconstrictor. Some people I believe mentioned that after sinus surgeries, their CH felt better, likely due to this. There's a thread floating around somewheres that addresses this. There's also a thread of a guy who went and tried different things to see what the effects would be.1

I'm not promoting the use of it, nor is the poster. She pointed out, it obviously was NOT an option. Again, anyone who tries this, deserves to become addicted. You don't play with fire and expect to get burned.

Now, on to the Lidocaine...

Ask his doctor about lidocaine nasal spray, or, some lidocaine in syrup form. At an ER, they used some lidociane syrup on me. It numbed PART of the headache, what was in the sinuses, but other than that? Nada. The rest still hurt horribly.

Either way, there's no telling what the hell lidocaine inhalation would do to his lungs! It could cause all sorts of problems you didn't anticipate. What if it impairs his ability to breathe? You don't know what it'll do....

I don't often get on a soapbox and preach, but I am going to this time.

I've been all over the place emotionally and logically dealing with cluster headaches (chronic).  There were times that I would have tried anything to get relief.  DO NOT TRY THIS!!!

Ray

coach_bill wrote on Jan 1^st, 2009 at 8:46pm:

Smoking Crack to abort a cluster... HMMM Why didnt i think of that. Where the Hell is Potter when you need him... Coach Bill

I been trying to avoid these bad brained posts.  Get some gawddamned oxygen and forget cola in any form.  Been there and done that, it don't work.

Again try the oxygen.

            Kinder gentler Potter

heheh...I've been waiting for Potter to show up.... :D

Many treatments are as bad as the CH. Just say no.
the bb

Wouldn't "powdered lidocaine" be coke?
"Crack" as an abortive?

With a supporter like you sweety who needs the plague?

Geez.

Scott

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2009 at 9:44pm:

Wouldn't "powdered lidocaine" be coke? "Crack" as an abortive? With a supporter like you sweety who needs the plague? (and mystina, please take a moment before you feel compelled to agree with every wackjob that shows up here) Geez. Scott

How about you learn to read my posts before responding. If you would have, you would have saw that I pointed out, it's a VERY BAD IDEA. Re: You use it, you deserve to be addicted to it for being a complete idiot.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Just because I think anyone who uses it is a idiot, doesn't change the fact it's a vasoconstrictor. Someone asked about it, I supplied the answer. Doesn't mean that I'm agreeing with it.

Pixie-elf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2009 at 10:02pm:

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 9:44pm: Wouldn't "powdered lidocaine" be coke? "Crack" as an abortive? With a supporter like you sweety who needs the plague? (and mystina, please take a moment before you feel compelled to agree with every wackjob that shows up here) Geez. Scott How about you learn to read my posts before responding. If you would have, you would have saw that I pointed out, it's a VERY BAD IDEA. Re: You use it, you deserve to be addicted to it for being a complete idiot.

Wow, was Scott even replying to YOUR post?  ::)

wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2009 at 10:16pm:

Pixie-elf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 10:02pm: seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 9:44pm: Wouldn't "powdered lidocaine" be coke? "Crack" as an abortive? With a supporter like you sweety who needs the plague? (and mystina, please take a moment before you feel compelled to agree with every wackjob that shows up here) Geez. Scott How about you learn to read my posts before responding. If you would have, you would have saw that I pointed out, it's a VERY BAD IDEA. Re: You use it, you deserve to be addicted to it for being a complete idiot. Wow, was Scott even replying to YOUR post?  ::)

In Mystina's defense -- I did edit my comments after rereading -- but I was amazed that she had started it out as "Actually there's a basis behind that."

Still amazed but did edit from the original after re-reading.

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2009 at 10:21pm:

wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 10:16pm: Pixie-elf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 10:02pm: seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 9:44pm: Wouldn't "powdered lidocaine" be coke? "Crack" as an abortive? With a supporter like you sweety who needs the plague? (and mystina, please take a moment before you feel compelled to agree with every wackjob that shows up here) Geez. Scott How about you learn to read my posts before responding. If you would have, you would have saw that I pointed out, it's a VERY BAD IDEA. Re: You use it, you deserve to be addicted to it for being a complete idiot. Wow, was Scott even replying to YOUR post?  ::) In Mystina's defense -- I did edit my comments after rereading -- but I was amazed that she had started it out as "Actually there's a basis behind that." Still amazed but did edit from the original after re-reading.

Just because there's a reason behind it, doesn't make it good, or right. I have no respect for anyone who uses it, expecially not for this. I'll put it like this... Imitrex helps cluster headaches. It will also give me a stroke, without any question. I may be desperate for pain relief with the headaches, but I am not stupid enough to risk my life for said relief!

Using coke to treat a disease that can has MANY other treatments is not only stupid...it's INSANE.

I've seen people I loved lose everything due to coke. I'm not a fan, but like I said, there have been posts on the board on this very subject. That's how I knew it was a vasoconstrictor, and that it was used in sinus surgeries.

My advise on the lidocaine was because I thought there was a chance it did come in a powdered form. If I'd known it was simply referring to crack, I'd have not replied at all with anything other than the link to show where the idea may have come from.

It's funny...I've been doing "extensive research" and it seems that a LOT of things can abort an attack....but I can't find one single site that says ANYTHING about SMOKING CRACK for CH...just how does someone come away from "extensive research" with THAT on their plate?!?  :-?

God forbid anyone in a desperate state of pain find this thread and actually TRY this...

Perhaps she'll make a second post and tell us.

Crack? You've got to be kidding me!! Mize well add more troubles to ones life and who needs more troubles!!

JUST SAY NO!!  SAY YES TO O2 INSTEAD!!

AussieBrian wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2009 at 8:58am:

Perhaps she'll make a second post and tell us.

This is what I'm waiting for...

[quote author=41786978743C747D77110 link=1230844637/6#6 date=1230871826]

The thing is, locally? Coccaine is used as an anesthetic in sinus surgery.


First off, I have personally had sinus surgery and cocaine was in no way used as a anesthetic.

Second, CRACK KILLS this is not an option for cluster headaches!

Another one and done dumb ass post.

            Kinder gentler Potter

Dumb ass post? or dumb ass thread?

Blue_eyes wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2009 at 11:07am:

Dumb ass post? or dumb ass thread?

Does it matter?

   Kinder gentler Potter

Lidocaine Powder 1 Kg.1 Kg of 99.9% pure Lidocaine in powder form at very reasonable price to individuals and businesses for product developement. Lidocaine is also known as xylocaine. Lidocaine products furnished by Midcoastal are not to be used for manufacturing end products or drugs for public use or consumption. Lidocaine is not to be used to adulterate, dilute, or mix with existing drugs for any illegal or inapropriate use. MSDS sheets are avaialble to print online. /images/12255382629741427500623.jpg  

Click To Enlarge
 
 
Item #: Lidocaine-Powder-1kg
Cannot ship to: Canada
Qty    
Price  $1,120.00  
Sale Price  $449.99  
Adjusted Price  $449.99  


 
and we all think Trex is expensive.

Why in hell should anyone consider an anesthetic used for any kind of surgery also to be useful against CH, vasoconstrictor or not  :question :question :question

                 [smiley=smokin.gif]

But Linda, it's on SALE!!! :P

Lidocaine spray is prescribed sometimes to abort CH attacks.  Last visit to the neuro's office Gary had an attack, and Doc shoved huge Q-tip thingies up his nose with a bunch of lidocaine goop on them.  Didn't do anything except freeze his teeth and part of the upper palate of his mouth.  ....and of course made him really uncomfortable as he had to lie there instead of being able to get up and move around.

This is from the Medical Info button on the left:

*****************************

Lidocaine

Kittrelle et al (1985)A showed that the intranasal instillation of 1 ml 4 percent topical lidocaine was effective in terminating attacks in four of five patients.  The patients were instructed to lie supine, with their heads extended backward 45 degrees and rotated 30 to 40 degrees toward the side of the headache.   One ml lidocaine was slowly dropped into the nostril ipsilateral to the pain, and the patient's position was maintained for several minutes.  If nasal congestion mad it impossible to deliver the anesthetic solution to it target, the patient was initially treated with a few drops of intranasal 0.5 percent phenylephrine.  These investigators believed that the lidocaine reached the sphenopalatine fossa and anesthetized the sphenopalatine ganglion.  That is certainly possible but, and addition, local blockade of terminals of the trigeminal and glossopharyngeal nerves intranansally could also decrease afferent activity to the spinal trigeminal nucleus, stopping the pain because of convergence of the sensory elements of cranial nerves V, VII, IX, and X.  The beneficial effect of topical lidocaine surely does not implicate the sphenopalatine ganglion in the mechanism of cluster headache.  I find lidocaine to be an extremely useful therapeutic adjunct.  The 1 ml dose may need to be repeated once or twice.  For may patients, the application of lidocaine via the continuous pumping of a plastic nasal spray bottle is superior.  In my experience, lidocaine is useful for about 60 percent of patients.

****************************************

If Lydia and her CH sufferer want to party, I recommend shrooms.   ::)

Laurie

Quote:

If Lydia and her CH sufferer want to party, I recommend shrooms.

I dont use mushrooms to party, I use them because I suffer from the worst pain known to man. This is medicine in my opinion and I dont want to take them any more than I want to inject with imitrex.
Please don't think I party to get rid of my CH. It sucks and it aint no party here. >:(
the bb

Garys_Girl wrote on Jan 4^th, 2009 at 7:20pm:

If Lydia and her CH sufferer want to party, I recommend shrooms.   ::) Laurie

Now that there is some bad brained thinkin goin on.  What were you thinking when you made that comment?

           Kinder gentler Potter

Potter wrote on Jan 4^th, 2009 at 8:30pm:

Garys_Girl wrote on Jan 4th, 2009 at 7:20pm: If Lydia and her CH sufferer want to party, I recommend shrooms.   ::) Laurie Now that there is some bad brained thinkin goin on.  What were you thinking when you made that comment?            Kinder gentler Potter

You are SO right, and the bbz, I am SO sorry.  I obviously wasn't thinking, and is totally thoughtless.  I'd jump down the throat of anyone posting something like that because so many have worked for so long to remove just that kind of stigmatism to the use of psilocybin (or LSD or LSA) for therapeutic medical reasons, and thank you for calling me on it.

Please accept my apologies.  

Laurie

You are SO right, and the bbz, I am SO sorry.  I obviously wasn't thinking, and is totally thoughtless.  I'd jump down the throat of anyone posting something like that because so many have worked for so long to remove just that kind of stigmatism to the use of psilocybin (or LSD or LSA) for therapeutic medical reasons, and thank you for calling me on it.

Please accept my apologies.  

Laurie

Kudo's to you Laurie, you're a class act! ;)

And be careful everyone, a supporter came here and asked a question. My neuro told me 30 years ago that cocaine had a positive effect on CH, that's why he initially gave me the lidocaine drops to try as an abortive. It didn't work for me. She may honestly be trying to help someone. Many of us have considered chopping our heads off during a KIP 10.  :) Asking about cocaine is mild by comparison!

I'm hoping we haven't scared away a supporter by jumping down her throat. Let's try and remember a lot of scared people come here looking for answers, letr's not scare them away. While I agree wholeheartedly that street drugs are no answer to CH, you can tell someone it's a bad idea, without comparing them to a mouth breathing moron!

Joe's humble opinion.

Apparently the stigma remains. Apology accepted and thank you.
all the best
the bb
There is a fine line between use and abuse.

Guiseppi wrote on Jan 5^th, 2009 at 5:15pm:

[i] Asking about cocaine is mild by comparison! I'm hoping we haven't scared away a supporter by jumping down her throat. Let's try and remember a lot of scared people come here looking for answers, letr's not scare them away. While I agree wholeheartedly that street drugs are no answer to CH, you can tell someone it's a bad idea, without comparing them to a mouth breathing moron! Joe's humble opinion.

She was pretty clear: "I have been doing extensive research and it seems that smoking crack can abort."

That's bullsh&t.

Whatever response she received was appropriate. If she's embarrassed - she should be. There's no extensive research to tell anyone that smoking crack is an abortive.

I'm not going to get all analytical and self-questioning over someone that would consider giving crack as an abortive to their sufferer. The answer is f-No.

Scott

She's a one and done. Why do some folks want to kiss these crazies ass.

      Kinder gentler Potter

One and done because she's crazy? Or because her first question was met with such abuse? Like I said, a medical doctor, a neuro, told me 30 years ago that cocaine had a positive effect on CH. Either he made it up...not likely...or some research existed...way back then....to back it up.

You can tell someone an idea is not good, and back it up with research. Or you can tell them their idea is stupid, ridicule them, chase them away, and make danged sure they never come to us looking for advice again. Which do you suppose DJ set up this site for?

Joe

Guiseppi wrote on Jan 5^th, 2009 at 10:30pm:

Like I said, a medical doctor, a neuro, told me 30 years ago that cocaine had a positive effect on CH. Either he made it up...not likely...or some research existed...way back then....to back it up. Joe

30 years ago, Joe, many doctors were doing coke and still disputing tobacco research. If we were sitting here 30 years ago on the internet then the conversation would have probably been different. But since then we've had Nancy Reagan, "Just Say No", massive educational programs regarding cocaine, the crack epidemic, meth, what have you, and well, it's not 30 years ago.

As for what DJ set this site up for...a support group that has been self-identified as a community develops its own mores and codes organically.

Scott

Potter wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2009 at 12:36pm:

coach_bill wrote on Jan 1st, 2009 at 8:46pm: Smoking Crack to abort a cluster... HMMM Why didnt i think of that. Where the Hell is Potter when you need him... Coach Bill I been trying to avoid these bad brained posts.  Get some gawddamned oxygen and forget cola in any form.  Been there and done that, it don't work. Again try the oxygen.             Kinder gentler Potter

Gosh Potter, you were really kind on this one  ;D

Chad wrote on Jan 6^th, 2009 at 8:12am:

Potter wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 12:36pm: coach_bill wrote on Jan 1st, 2009 at 8:46pm: Smoking Crack to abort a cluster... HMMM Why didnt i think of that. Where the Hell is Potter when you need him... Coach Bill I been trying to avoid these bad brained posts.  Get some gawddamned oxygen and forget cola in any form.  Been there and done that, it don't work. Again try the oxygen.             Kinder gentler Potter Gosh Potter, you were really kind on this one  ;D

Kind, gentle and to the point.

    Kinder gentler Potter

Guiseppi wrote on Jan 5^th, 2009 at 5:15pm:

And be careful everyone, a supporter came here and asked a question. My neuro told me 30 years ago that cocaine had a positive effect on CH, that's why he initially gave me the lidocaine drops to try as an abortive. It didn't work for me. She may honestly be trying to help someone. Many of us have considered chopping our heads off during a KIP 10.  :) Asking about cocaine is mild by comparison! Joe's humble opinion.

In the mid to late 90s, when my CHs started, I was a heavy cocaine user.  For many years, I thought my CHs were sinus issues brought on by the cocaine.  I do recall during that time, cocaine would abort an attack.  At the same time my cycles would last about 3 weeks longer than they do now.  I haven't used cocaine in almost 10 years, but if the attack was bad enough and it was put in front of me, I would do it.  

I think we're getting a little off-topic; this poster didn't ask about the effectiveness of cocaine; she specifically asked about smoking crack.

Now, I searched, and I couldn't find a reference to crack-smoking for CH anywhere.  The scary thing is that this person is not only picking up on that as the one abortive they want to ask about, but also that she is looking for a crack "substitute" to smoke...somehow she has gotten it into her head that "smoking something = CH abortive".  So despite her extensive research she doesn't get it at all.

I think as much as we have a right to voice our opinions and ideas on treatments and medicines, as the web's premiere CH discussion site (ONLY site? hehe) I feel we also have a duty to be careful what ideas we present...
not only for the fact that yes, many of us are openly flaunting the law in our use of hallucinogens as a treatment and thus we don't need any extra attention in the realm of illegal drugs;
but also for the fact that there are some very desperate people out there, and in doing searches on the web they may come across a post like that woman's and see "extensive research...smoking crack...aborts clusters..." and get the bright idea to try it.  And it's already happened; I mean, this girl picked up the idea from somewhere, right?  So now this makes two websites where crack smoking is mentioned...I can just smell trouble.

I hate to chase anyone off, but I'm very protective of what this site stands for, and what it means to each of the sufferers who have found what they needed here to carry on and fight the good fight...

so, I think while we do need to show compassion, SOME things should still be black and white.  For web surfers who don't sift through hundreds of our posts, if we don't respond strongly to outrageous ideas like this one, it might seem to them as if it's worth a shot.

Quote:

many of us are openly flaunting the law in our use of hallucinogens as a treatment

Pronunciation:*fl*nt, *fl*nt
Function:verb
Etymology:perhaps of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse flana to rush around more at  PLANET
Date:1566

intransitive senses  
1 : to display or obtrude oneself to public notice
2 : to wave or flutter showily *the flag flaunts in the breeze*
transitive senses  
1 : to display ostentatiously or impudently : PARADE *flaunting his superiority*
2 : to treat contemptuously *flaunted the rules Louis Untermeyer*
synonyms see SHOW
 –flaunt noun  
 –flauntingly \*fl*n-ti*-l*, *fl*n-\  adverb  
 –flaunty \-t*\  adjective  

Funny I don't feel like I am flaunting anything by treating my CH with mushrooms. More like pushed in a corner. :(
Social stigma with these things there is.....Yoda voice

Lydia64 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2009 at 4:17pm:

Hi.  I just registered for this site and love someone who has been suffering horribly with CH for about 4 years now.  I apologize in advance if I've pklaced this post in the wrong section. They've become chronic and he doesn't have many PF days. He's seen many doctors, including a research doctor at UVA Neurology Center. They've tried him on this and that, and the only thing that seems to help is Imitrex. Of course the month's supply that insurance will cover only lasts 4 days if he's lucky and only uses part of the injection per CH. I have been doing extensive research and it seems that smoking crack can abort. Of course that's not an option. However you can buy powdered lidocaine. Have any of you tried smoking powdered lidocaine? He's had no luck with putting it up his nose. Thanks for any advice anyone can offer.

Posted by: UnderTheRadar      Posted on: Today at 2:33pm
"I think we're getting a little off-topic; this poster didn't ask about the effectiveness of cocaine; she specifically asked about smoking crack."

Where is she specifically asking about smoking crack?  She even states it is not an option...  Are we all reading the same thing here?

No, we are not all reading the same thing. Funny how some will not read an entire post, and grab onto a few words, and then try to proceed to shove them down someone's throat, when all they are asking is a simple question. And a newbie, no less.

Thank you for posting, sorry you were driven off the board. I hope the people who had helpful suggestions, were indeed helpful to you. And to answer your question about smoking lidocaine.... don't do it. There are other forms of it available to use for the treatment of CH that are much safer.

Quote:

Thank you for posting, sorry you were driven off the board. I hope the people who had helpful suggestions, were indeed helpful to you. And to answer your question about smoking lidocaine.... don't do it. There are other forms of it available to use for the treatment of CH that are much safer.   Back to top

Now that rocks!!
the bb

purpleydog wrote on Jan 6^th, 2009 at 10:40pm:

No, we are not all reading the same thing. Funny how some will not read an entire post, and grab onto a few words, and then try to proceed to shove them down someone's throat, when all they are asking is a simple question. And a newbie, no less. Thank you for posting, sorry you were driven off the board. I hope the people who had helpful suggestions, were indeed helpful to you. And to answer your question about smoking lidocaine.... don't do it. There are other forms of it available to use for the treatment of CH that are much safer.

I read it, and she asked about smoking crack. Crack is not a good idea.

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 7:58am:

I read it, and she asked about smoking crack. Crack is not a good idea.

No, she said that smoking crack isn't an option.

Quote:

I have been doing extensive research and it seems that smoking crack can abort. Of course that's not an option.

Oliver

gizmo wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 8:23am:

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 7:58am: I read it, and she asked about smoking crack. Crack is not a good idea. No, she said that smoking crack isn't an option. Quote: I have been doing extensive research and it seems that smoking crack can abort. Of course that's not an option. Oliver

She asked about smoking "crack". Whether she thought it was an option or not, she asked about smoking "crack". WTF? What part of "it seems that smoking crack can abort" doesn't sound as though she is talking about "crack"? This is idiotic.  No one ran her off. She was one and done and gone.

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 9:31am:

gizmo wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 8:23am: seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 7:58am: I read it, and she asked about smoking crack. Crack is not a good idea. No, she said that smoking crack isn't an option. Quote: I have been doing extensive research and it seems that smoking crack can abort. Of course that's not an option. Oliver She asked about smoking "crack". Whether she thought it was an option or not, she asked about smoking "crack". WTF? What part of "it seems that smoking crack can abort" doesn't sound as though she is talking about "crack"? This is idiotic.  No one ran her off. She was one and done and gone.

   Exactly
   The End.

         Kinder gentler Potter

Some ask about crack, some ask about mushrooms, some ask about LSD, some ask about seeds, ...
Except for the level of danger I can't see a difference there, especially from a newbies point!!!.
I suppose we all were in the situation that we would try anything to get rid of CH.

It is ok to tell a newbie that smoking crack or any other possible treatment is not the way to go but do we really need to chase them off?

Oliver

She asked about smoking "crack". Whether she thought it was an option or not, she asked about smoking "crack". WTF? What part of "it seems that smoking crack can abort" doesn't sound as though she is talking about "crack"? This is idiotic.  No one ran her off. She was one and done and gone.

Oh no one is denying you your accomplishment. You chased her off. If that was your goal, I say job well done!


Edited with apologies to Oliver. Totally my bad and I am sorry. I attributed this quote to the wrong person.

Joe

Joe

Am I missing something?

Edited:
Apologies accepted but not needed since we all make mistakes. :)

Oliver

gizmo wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 10:57am:

I suppose we all were in the situation that we would try anything to get rid of CH.

Nope. Sorry.

It is not okay to infer that after having done "extensive research" she heard that "crack" was an abortive. Not okay then, won't ever be okay. She is one and done and gone.

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 11:21am:

gizmo wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 10:57am: I suppose we all were in the situation that we would try anything to get rid of CH. Nope. Sorry. It is not okay to infer that after having done "extensive research" she heard that "crack" was an abortive. Not okay then, won't ever be okay. She is one and done and gone.

I have actually seen that cocaine, or crack cocaine if you will, can abort clusters.  I would not promote it, but since you mention it, here you go.  START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE  

So, does this make me one and done?

Nope, I guess not...

wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 11:30am:

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 11:21am: gizmo wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 10:57am: I suppose we all were in the situation that we would try anything to get rid of CH. Nope. Sorry. It is not okay to infer that after having done "extensive research" she heard that "crack" was an abortive. Not okay then, won't ever be okay. She is one and done and gone. I have actually seen that cocaine, or crack cocaine if you will, can abort clusters.  I would not promote it, but since you mention it, here you go.  START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE   So, does this make me one and done?

You're going to have to do better than that.  If that is what you define as extensive research you've gotta be kidding. Maybe that is the problem here on this thread.

By the way, she is one and done and gone - if you haven't noticed. Her choice.

The only thing I requested, is the link to the information that stated "smoking crack aborts cluster headaches".  That's all!!

Cocaine as a medicinal use is one thing, but when you post "smoking crack" as a medicinal use, it's a WHOLE other ballgame.

THAT is why I was curious.  

I think we need to really look at the terms here, not group it all together.

Six minutes is how long she was here.

      Kinder gentler potter

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 11:58am:

wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 11:30am: seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 11:21am: gizmo wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 10:57am: I suppose we all were in the situation that we would try anything to get rid of CH. Nope. Sorry. It is not okay to infer that after having done "extensive research" she heard that "crack" was an abortive. Not okay then, won't ever be okay. She is one and done and gone. I have actually seen that cocaine, or crack cocaine if you will, can abort clusters.  I would not promote it, but since you mention it, here you go.  START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE   So, does this make me one and done? You're going to have to do better than that.  If that is what you define as extensive research you've gotta be kidding. Maybe that is the problem here on this thread. By the way, she is one and done and gone - if you haven't noticed. Her choice.

First, I never said I was doing extensive research...

Second, I think you are missing the point.  One search found over 40,000 hits, so, who is to say that she did not find something stating that "crack" can abort.

Third, you have twisted her words and have made attacks on her character as a CH supporter from the very beginning.

Fourth, Her question was about powdered lidocaine.  Regardless of how crazy anyone's idea, she came here looking for help.

Fifth, the problem with this thread is that some people do not take the time to read and jump to conclusions instead of offering help.  And really, do you honestly think that anyone is going to return and start dealing with this crap after you compare them to plague.

Lydia64 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2009 at 4:17pm:

I have been doing extensive research and it seems that smoking crack can abort.

What part of that don't you understand?

I read the whole post. I get it. She's one and done.

Do you still want to defend and extend the discussion of what is undeniably a dangerous drug - "crack cocaine", or maybe you'd prefer to see if we can interject "methamphetamine" into to see if there's ways to acquire bulk volumes of sudafed?

Unbelievable. You can have DJ or Steph kick me off this site before I give on this one.

Not defending it, just saying it is plausible.  Not saying it is true, just saying that it is possible that some one could find that kind of info.  Not saying that I agree with her in anyway, just keeping an open mind.  However, I do disagree with the way you have personally attacked someones character because you disagree with something they stated.  The mere mention of crack does not warrant your trying to belittle them.  It goes against the grain of, what I believe is, the purpose of this board.  You could have gone about it differently.  

If you want DJ and Steph to review your attacks of someones character that is entirely up to you.

wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 2:09pm:

Not defending it..

You are. To make a point.

Okay, I'm done with the thread at this point.

But,

Don't use crack.
If you are a supporter don't give crack to a sufferer. It would be beyond stupid.
It's bad and bad for you.

My point.

UnderTheRadar wrote on Jan 6^th, 2009 at 5:33pm:

I think we're getting a little off-topic; this poster didn't ask about the effectiveness of cocaine; she specifically asked about smoking crack. Now, I searched, and I couldn't find a reference to crack-smoking for CH anywhere.  The scary thing is that this person is not only picking up on that as the one abortive they want to ask about, but also that she is looking for a crack "substitute" to smoke...somehow she has gotten it into her head that "smoking something = CH abortive".  So despite her extensive research she doesn't get it at all. I think as much as we have a right to voice our opinions and ideas on treatments and medicines, as the web's premiere CH discussion site (ONLY site? hehe) I feel we also have a duty to be careful what ideas we present... not only for the fact that yes, many of us are openly flaunting the law in our use of hallucinogens as a treatment and thus we don't need any extra attention in the realm of illegal drugs; but also for the fact that there are some very desperate people out there, and in doing searches on the web they may come across a post like that woman's and see "extensive research...smoking crack...aborts clusters..." and get the bright idea to try it.  And it's already happened; I mean, this girl picked up the idea from somewhere, right?  So now this makes two websites where crack smoking is mentioned...I can just smell trouble. I hate to chase anyone off, but I'm very protective of what this site stands for, and what it means to each of the sufferers who have found what they needed here to carry on and fight the good fight... so, I think while we do need to show compassion, SOME things should still be black and white.  For web surfers who don't sift through hundreds of our posts, if we don't respond strongly to outrageous ideas like this one, it might seem to them as if it's worth a shot.

Great post!

I don't really have anything to add to this other than I wouldn't recommend crack/cocaine to my worst enemy, regardless if it aborts a headache or not.  The shit is DANGEROUS!!!  

When crack/cocaine is studied by Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Princeton professors to abort a cluster attack, let me know, in the meantime suck on some O2.

"When crack/cocaine is studied by Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Princeton professors to abort a cluster attack, let me know"  Thank you...I was starting to feel a little "warm" in here.  ;)


"Except for the level of danger I can't see a difference there, especially from a newbies point"
Sorry Oliver, but I beg to differ- there's a BIG difference: shrooms actually WORK for CH, and are SAFE.  
But that's the whole point- newbies don't know this; that's why it is imperative for US to lead the way and make sure they don't get the wrong ideas about other drugs, like crack.

"Her question was about powdered lidocaine.  Regardless of how crazy anyone's idea, she came here looking for help. Not defending it, just saying it is plausible. Not saying that I agree with her in anyway, just keeping an open mind."
No, Icedragon, you're not defending it, but you're sure not condemning it, either.  That's just ambiguous enough to give someone room to think it's worth a try.

You know, I felt really bad last night after all of this, but when I went back and read it all over again, no one really got ugly about it.  Some mild jokes were made, but nothing nasty.  If she's that fervent a supporter, then she wouldn't be scared off by some mild chastisement of what she herself says is "not an option."  Right?

"It goes against the grain of, what I believe is, the purpose of this board."
And just what is the purpose of this board, pray tell?  To entertain every hare-brained idea that someone finds on the internet just so that we don't "scare" them away?  sheesh.

Oh, and merci beaucoup, Icedragon, for posting your search results...and making it that much easier for nutballs to find more evidence in support of cracksmoking!!!

UnderTheRadar wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 10:27pm:

"When crack/cocaine is studied by Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Princeton professors to abort a cluster attack, let me know"  Thank you...I was starting to feel a little "warm" in here.  ;) "Except for the level of danger I can't see a difference there, especially from a newbies point" Sorry Oliver, but I beg to differ- there's a BIG difference: shrooms actually WORK for CH, and are SAFE.   But that's the whole point- newbies don't know this; that's why it is imperative for US to lead the way and make sure they don't get the wrong ideas about other drugs, like crack. "Her question was about powdered lidocaine.  Regardless of how crazy anyone's idea, she came here looking for help. Not defending it, just saying it is plausible. Not saying that I agree with her in anyway, just keeping an open mind." No, Icedragon, you're not defending it, but you're sure not condemning it, either.  That's just ambiguous enough to give someone room to think it's worth a try. You know, I felt really bad last night after all of this, but when I went back and read it all over again, no one really got ugly about it.  Some mild jokes were made, but nothing nasty.  If she's that fervent a supporter, then she wouldn't be scared off by some mild chastisement of what she herself says is "not an option."  Right? "It goes against the grain of, what I believe is, the purpose of this board." And just what is the purpose of this board, pray tell?  To entertain every hare-brained idea that someone finds on the internet just so that we don't "scare" them away?  sheesh. Oh, and merci beaucoup, Icedragon, for posting your search results...and making it that much easier for nutballs to find more evidence in support of cracksmoking!!!

You know, when I posted the search results it was only to make the point that it is possible that someone could have stumbled across something stating crack can be used as an abortive.  It is not that hard to do, anyone can do it.  It took me all of five seconds.  If you would have bothered to read any of the links on the top of the list you would have realized most say that cocaine is a trigger for CH.  

I just get sick of people twisting peoples words and then persecuting them for something they never even said.  She never "specifically asked about smoking crack" did she?  So she she said, it seems crack can abort.  Don't you think it fair that they get the chance to show their source before comparing them to the plague.  And No, being compared to the plague is not a mild joke.  

And, yes that is exactly what I mean, we should entertain every harebrained idea that comes along.   Like the one where it is okay to misquote people and twist their words into what ever anybody wants to.  We could even take it a little further by acting offended when you get called on it and try to make the other guy look bad...

Or, when misguided people come onto the board you can steer them in the right direction with some tact instead of attacking their character.  

Hey, I never attacked her character.  As far as I can tell, no one else did, either- they just attacked her idea of smoking crack to abort headaches.

And frankly, I'm impressed with how gently everyone DID respond...have you even been on other message boards?  They would have set off the sprinklers.

"And, yes that is exactly what I mean, we should entertain every harebrained idea that comes along."  That's an entire sentence that you wrote, no twisting or distorting.  Do you really want to hitch your wagon to that?  

I don't know about the rest of you, but I sure don't want my email address connected to anyone that would advocate such dangerous nonsense.  :-?

I agree with the others that she was one and done.  So whatever.  

Radar, I agree, no one attacked her character, and the idea of smoking lidocaine (since she wasn't advocating smoking crack to begin with) needed to be put down.  But the fact of the matter is that lidocaine (used intranasally) is included in most literature as an abortive treatment and is prescribed for treatment of CH.  

Some took off on the cocaine aspect of the background she presented, but she wasn't asking about coke or crack.  So how she got there might be nutty, and I don't buy for a minute that "extensive research" was done to get to her conclusion, but for those who jumped all over her idea of lidocaine, well, again, for the record, lidocaine, when used properly (as a spray or administered by the neuro as a gel up in the nose in order to reach the supratrochlear nerve) - IS a legitimate abortive, it is currently prescribed by docs as an abortive, and it does works for some.  

So I don't even agree that her idea of using lidocaine is such a harebrained idea.  Without having read any of the treatment literature, she got to a legitimate treatment - just not a legitimate method of delivery.  

But just for the record, she wasn't advocating it, she came here asking about it.  And we all answered: no, and don't try it.  

Laurie

UnderTheRadar wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 3:41pm:

Hey, I never attacked her character.  As far as I can tell, no one else did, either- they just attacked her idea of smoking crack to abort headaches. And frankly, I'm impressed with how gently everyone DID respond...have you even been on other message boards?  They would have set off the sprinklers. "And, yes that is exactly what I mean, we should entertain every harebrained idea that comes along."  That's an entire sentence that you wrote, no twisting or distorting.  Do you really want to hitch your wagon to that?   I don't know about the rest of you, but I sure don't want my email address connected to anyone that would advocate such dangerous nonsense.  :-?

Really?  Let's be done with this... But before I go, here is some thing you need.  

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Pay close attention to this part:


Quote:

There Are Two Cardinal Rules for Quoting Sources. There are two cardinal rules for quoting sources that apply in all circumstances and regardless of which style manual you use. Your quotations must be accurate and must accurately represent the intent of the author(s). To make sure that your quotations are accurate, be sure to copy them directly from the original source or a photographic copy of the original source, and not from a secondary source. If your sources are from electronic databases or can be scanned into a computer where an electronic version of the print can be accurately produced, you can literally "cut and paste" the quotation from the original source in to the body of your paper. Otherwise, you will simply have to carefully check that you have accurately typed the quotation into your paper. You must read the original material carefully to make sure that your quotation accurately represents the intent of the author(s). Statements that are written sarcastically, for example, can be quoted improperly to represent a point of view entirely opposite of the author's point of view. Quotations can also be taken out of context with the result of misrepresenting the author's perspective. For example, if an author wrote, "Capital punishment must be outlawed under all circumstances where the convicted murderer is mentally retarded," it would be taking the quotation out of context to report that the author said, "Capital punishment must be outlawed under all circumstances. . . ."

Hope it helps, have a nice day.

I call...."last word"....... be done, one and all.

Yes, let's put this baby to bed before it gets personal. [smiley=baby.gif]