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Message started by Batch on Feb 10th, 2009 at 12:55am

Title: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Batch on Feb 10th, 2009 at 12:55am
Friends, fellow cluster headache sufferers, supporters, and guests, let me first start by offering my apologies if the following offends you.  I offer it merely as a sad commentary of our times.  You’ll either need to get used to what’s coming next from the most corrupt Marxist administration and socialist Congress in our Nations history, or start now preparing your vote to elect a new congress and president at the soonest.

The chosen one proved beyond any doubt last night in his prime time teleconference debut, that the liberals and a few million deluded voters in the middle of the political spectrum have elected an idiot.  His messianic ruminations last night were not only boring liberal rhetorical lies for the most part, they were also downright frightening campaign speeches from the bully pulpit.  He was doing little more that selling his so called stimulus package as a bag of gold when it’s really a pig in a poke, but he had the audacity to think we would all would agree with him.

I was particularly moved by his scholarly comment that most people can't read a doctor’s prescription as a key reason to support his so called stimulus package a.k.a. the liberal porkulus package.  This astounding comment only shows the depth of the chosen one's ignorance and his profoundly challenged mental capacity to lead.  It was also painfully clear to me he's totally unaware that prescriptions are written in Latin terms and usually in shorthand.

Given the total failure of public education, and the fact that even the obamanoid himself is unaware of this simple fact of medicine, we can only guess what comes next.

We can only hope the Marxist idiot continues to add funding to abortion as one area where our tax dollars are well spent.  He's obviously not satisfied with an abortion rate as the highest blood right of liberalism responsible for the deaths of nearly 50 million American fetuses since 1973, that he took the effort to reverse previous Republican administration presidential acts by authorizing $400 million in funding to Mexico to help them abort more defenseless fetuses even faster in his first week in office.

This is one area where true Americans who believe in freedom, justice, and the American way should rejoice and offer enthusiastic support for this liberal act of barbaric human sacrifice that would make the Mayan and Aztec nations blanch in jealousy.

Since Roe vs Wade was enacted in 1972 and ruled constitutional by the Supreme Court in 1973, liberals have also been responsible for the abortion deaths of 15 million potential voters that could have voted in the last election. As 90% of these abortions came from the lowest socioeconomic part of our population that traditionally votes liberal, the liberals have cleverly removed over 13 million liberal voters from the rolls that would have cast their votes for even more liberal candidates.  At this rate liberals will abort themselves out of office in as few as 10 years.

We should also make it a point to publicize this amazing feat of liberalism's mastery in taking freedom from its disciples and the proletariat to all aliens of Hispanic origin. We need to make sure all Hispanic immigrants, legal or illegal, know for a fact, that liberals will go to any lengths to abort any pregnancy, at any time, at faster rates than any government in the history of the world.  Moreover, we need to make sure they know that liberals make this marvelous public service available to all illegal aliens at no cost.  BTW less than 3% of these abortions were due to rape, incest, or to save the lives of the mother.

From the change we are seeing in the first few weeks of his administration, and the fact that his messianic proclamations are proving more vapid with each passing day, it’s none the less becoming painfully clear the chosen one will make sure we will soon be called The People’s Republic of the Socialist States of America with no boarders between Tierra del Fuego and the North Pole.

If you doubt my facts on abortion… Google “Roe vs Wade Abortions since 1973” or go to START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE.

Please think…  Be critical in your analysis…  Then act.  A call, email, or fax to your Senators could make a tremendous difference in the outcome of the present so called stimulation package when it comes to a final vote in the Senate in the next day or two.    

Take care,
V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Artonio on Feb 10th, 2009 at 1:30am
Well... with all of those stem cells now available... maybe they'll find a cure or treatment for CH, Hodgkin's disease, Alzeimers, Parkinsons, and a host of other illnesses. Just a thought.

As cold and callous as that may sound and as opposed as I am to abortion as a flippant form of birth control... I still stand by my opinion that a right to choose is right.

Pro choice is not necessarily pro abortion.

with warm regards,
Tony

modified for spelling

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Feb 10th, 2009 at 1:42am
I think the landslide victory in the election gives Obama political capital.  
It's a mandate.

Besides, if Obama laid an American flag on the ground, covered it with the Constitution and then took a shit on it as he was putting his forehead on the ground in the direction of Mecca, it would STILL be a big improvement over the last 8 years.  

Baby steps, my friend.  I know you are itching to get these problems solved quick, but we gotta take 1 step at a time.........

And stay the course.


Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Brew on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:18am
Batch, my friend - You've gotta stop holding back. It's gonna eat you up inside.

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Charlie on Feb 10th, 2009 at 8:28am

Quote:
Batch, my friend - You've gotta stop holding back. It's gonna eat you up inside


Wow... :o

My only comment is that very very few doctors use Latin in prescriptions today.

Charlie.........veni widi vici



Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by DennisM1045 on Feb 10th, 2009 at 8:47am
So is funding Mexican abortions his answer to the border problem  :-/

I am appalled by abortion.  But I'll not take a woman's right to choose away either.  Having said that, using my tax dollars to fund it is wrong.

-Dennis-

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Charlie on Feb 10th, 2009 at 8:58am
Was abortion part of the news conference or his Indiana speech?........I hope not. It wrecked politics nearly 40 years ago.

Charlie

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by zwibbs/Scott on Feb 10th, 2009 at 9:24am
While prescriptions are very rarely written in Latin anymore--the dosage instruction part of the prescription is indeed written in 100% Latin abbreviations. So Obama will probably include Latin classes for everyone in his Stimulus Package. I am not only appalled by Abortion--I am appalled that this president made his first official act as president an easing of abortion restrictions abroad. I also believe that we as Americans are a stupid group of people who embraced someone who had very limited credentials, and made him the second coming. He is the president--and I pray that we thrive as a nation. I also pray that all nominees pay their taxes--or --at least have someone who DOES THEIR DAMN HOMEWORK- on someone's past before they ask to have a nation support them.

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Cathi_Pierce on Feb 10th, 2009 at 9:50am
My Friend Zwibby said:
" I am not only appalled by Abortion--I am appalled that this president made his first official act as president an easing of abortion restrictions abroad. I also believe that we as Americans are a stupid group of people who embraced someone who had very limited credentials, and made him the second coming. He is the president--and I pray that we thrive as a nation. I also pray that all nominees pay their taxes--or --at least have someone who DOES THEIR DAMN HOMEWORK- on someone's past before they ask to have a nation support them."/quote]

I like those statements........but, may I elaborate?? Ease abortion restrictions....err... OUT OF THE COUNTRY??????  Ok, now I've gotta put the brakes on.......so, let's back the truck up, can we? I used to ask my kids, "if you are soo worried about what your friends are doing, who's taking time to worry about YOU?" Point being, we need to take care of ourselves first....interesting how this fits into national/International Politics...Frankly, in the current climate, we need to focus on our OWN crisis, not some foreign countries'....once we are all settled with that, maybe we can look to our neighboring countries to help in some way.....FOR NOW, at least, let's put out our fires at home, THEN we can discuss just how far we as a country are willing to help other countries deal with their abortion issues. OR ANY OTHER issues they might have.
2 things......
Personally,
1-I would NEVER abort a child I conceived
2-Past that is none of my decision

POlitically:
We got trouble, right here in River City(The Music Man). I support our efforts to resolve our financial/moral/medical and any other issues before we look to any other country to determine what they might need!

As usual, don't bite me....coz it's just my devalued 2 cents.......
Cathi-who STILL hates politics...

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Charlie on Feb 10th, 2009 at 9:56am
Abortion is one of those things......My neighbor would vote for the the Unibomber if his politics were pro-life.

One of the sad things is that the most determined pro-lifers have, in effect, educated people on it. By explaining how dangerous it is by example, they've in fact shown people, not well-educated on such things, that's something done frequently and as a result, to seekout competent practioners. I never heard of it until I was 24 when all this started.

It's certainly nothing to be happy about in any event.

Charlie

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by icedragon on Feb 10th, 2009 at 10:45am
Has everyone seen the latest news on Nadya Suleman lately?  It appears she had/has been recieving public assistance before deciding to have 8 more babies.  Does anyone here feel that she should have maybe aborted some of those fetuses?  Let us also keep in mind, the eggs are fertilized outside of the body and by failing to put them into the womb, would have also been essentially aborting the embryos...

 
Regardless of how you answer this question it was her choice and now we are going to be picking up the tab for 14 kids, and some of them for their entire lives with their use of SSI for their disabilities.

Thomas    

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Charlie on Feb 10th, 2009 at 10:54am
If you are Catholic, I fully understand a position on abortion and the abolition of the death penalty. I have to say that I admire this consistency rather than picking and choosing. No one should like abortion. I don't but it has always been around for those than can afford it. It isn't something created in 1970. It's wrecked politics and results in lots of unqualified legislators that get elected on pro life issues only and make things worse, mostly for women.

Years ago, I barely knew what abortion was and never heard it called that. Once it became something other than a moral issue, the whole world learned everything about it. It's pro-lifers that have brought out all this information in incredible detail with thousands of articles, literature and television programs so even people with little knowledge of it, know that it's an option and not as hard as it once was to obtain. What they've done is to make it more common.

They've explained scores of abortion methods, who provides it, all the things that can happen if you're not careful, drugs, doctors, clinics, history, frequency, ways to do it yourself, make known people who will do it for nothing, what politicians to back to keep abortion legal, what states to go to for help, timing, who and how much quacks may charge for illegal and dangerous procedures, even information not readily known to some clinics and a doctor or two.

Once abortion is illegal, the frequency of partial birth abortion will increase. Poor or desperate women who want abortion will hide their pregnancy and try to do it themselves or likely use some unqualified help. There will be more truly frightening discoveries in dumpsters....along with a huge increase in deadly botched abortions leaving the remaining children in some families, homeless and some likely stuck with unqualified relatives and even some others that barely tolerate kids in the first place.

Making abortion a punishable offense has serious unintended consequences. Grown children, in this mess aren't likely to benefit from visiting imprisoned parents.  It won't make for well-adjusted kids. They will grow up hating the judical system and respect for authority. Education, employment and socialization will be more difficult for them.

It would swamp the judicial system and law enforcement. Are we to build more prisons for the tens of thousands of convicted parents? These things, for the most part, have been overlooked but made more likely by the very groups that are so concerned about protection of our children and family values.

In short: Pre-birth, you name it, you got it. Pre-school: Are you nuts?! You're on your own but morally sound. Anti-abortion politics does not conform to simplistic thinking and should not be confused with wisdom.

Charlie

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Brew on Feb 10th, 2009 at 10:55am

wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 10:45am:
Has everyone seen the latest news on Nadya Suleman lately?  It appears she had/has been recieving public assistance before deciding to have 8 more babies.  Does anyone here feel that she should have maybe aborted some of those fetuses?  Let us also keep in mind, the eggs are fertilized outside of the body and by failing to put them into the womb, would have also been essentially aborting the embryos...

 
Regardless of how you answer this question it was her choice and now we are going to be picking up the tab for 14 kids, and some of them for their entire lives with their use of SSI for their disabilities.

Thomas    

What's your point? Is it that killing the innocent bystanders in this mess will somehow magically clean up the mess that is their mother?

The path of least resistance....

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Batch on Feb 10th, 2009 at 11:15am
Hmm…  Well, liberalism is a mental disorder…  And Bush Derangement Syndrome has now been acknowledged by the psychiatric profession as being just as debilitating and destructive as post traumatic shock syndrome…  so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at some of the comments…  

I just find it interesting that the very same liberals you expect to fix the present problem were responsible for defending Roe vs Wade and nearly 50 million abortions.  These same criminals were also the architects of the social experiment called Sub-Prime that ended in the Fannie and Freddie debacle of selling home loans to folks on welfare.  

BTW…It wasn’t those horrible bankers that did this to us…   It was your government under the Clintonoids that was holding a gun to the heads of these bankers telling them to make these stupid loans or go to jail.  

“Some banks have simply not done business in minority neighborhoods, while others charge higher rates or add extra charges to their loans in minority areas.  We have used a two-prong approach to address this problem.  First we have worked with the banking industry that wants to do right to reform their practices, and, secondly, for those who thumbed their noses, we have sued them and we are going to do whatever is necessary.”   Janet – Shoot’em up at Ruby Ridge and Waco Texas – Reno bragging in a speech about her accomplishment as Attorney General, Jan 15, 1997.

Oh yes…  For those of you who think the obamanoid’s so called stimulation package is going to help you in your old age… not so fast…  Moreover, if you think your health care will improve because of this 767 page POS legislation, take one step back…  The sneaky bastards have slipped in some very dangerous health care provisions under the guise of “Automated Medical Records Keeping” with your government maintaining the system and watching your medical treatments…  and you thought FISA wiretaps were an invasion of your privacy…

“Health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.”  You can thank another tax cheat, Tom Daschle for this smelly turd and he didn’t even make it into the Marxist cabinet, but he did insert it into the porkulus package.  How clever…

What they slipped in to the porkulus package is the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology.  This new bureaucracy will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective…  and if your illness and the medications needed to treat it are not on the list…  You got it…  NO COVERAGE under Medicare or Medicaid and that will also affect all doctors and private medical insurance.  

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The porkulus bill as written would change that and apply a cost-effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council…  not your doctor…  Wait until you see what that does to your coverage for imitrex and oxygen...

The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined.

There is a bright side to this form of social medicine…  When you get too old to work in the government gulags and you’ve got a chronic illness that’s too expensive to treat, you will not need to suffer too long as your government funded social medicine will see to it that euthanasia is made available to you at no extra cost…  As euthanasia goes hand in hand with abortion…  liberals should be ecstatic…

Finally for you youngsters and others that never studied history…  Think about this…   Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev, the president of the Soviet Union came to the US in 1960 to speak at the United Nations General Assembly and banged his shoe on the podium declaring to the people of the United States, "We will bury you!"

How prophetic…   If you liken our great Nation to an airliner that just took off from Regan National with comrade president obama at the controls, and he’s just caused both engines (the economy) to fail because he was dumping porkulus propaganda on Washington DC and it was ingested by both engines…  He’s going to put us in the drink and the outcome will not be anywhere as good as Sully’s ditching maneuver in the Hudson…

The Marxist lead socialists in the Senate are voting in less than an hour…

God save our great Nation

Charlie…  dictum factum...


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Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by monty on Feb 10th, 2009 at 11:57am

Batch wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 11:15am:
[size=18]Hmm…  Well, liberalism is a mental disorder…  And Bush Derangement Syndrome has now been acknowledged by the psychiatric profession as being just as debilitating and destructive as post traumatic shock syndrome…


You should walk the walk and think critically (as you exhort others to do).  Bush derangement syndrome is not recognized by the psychiatric profession - it is a term created by right wingers to try to defuse any and all criticism of Bush. As a political phenomenon, it is as 'real' as Clinton derangement syndrome and Obama derangement syndrome, and you seem to display symptoms of the latter.

What is the connection between economics and abortion? There isn't one, but that won't stop some opportunists from trying to link them.


Quote:
I was particularly moved by his scholarly comment that most people can't read a doctor’s prescription as a key reason to support his so called stimulus package a.k.a. the liberal porkulus package.  This astounding comment only shows the depth of the chosen one's ignorance and his profoundly challenged mental capacity to lead.  It was also painfully clear to me he's totally unaware that prescriptions are written in Latin terms and usually in shorthand.


The big problem is that mistakes are made when filling prescriptions (often a handwriting issue, especially when there are two or more very different drugs with similar names) - if the US is better than a third world nation, we should develop a system where the prescription is clearly printed and coded so that communication to the pharmacist and patient is as close to error-free as possible ... the FDA estimated that 98,000 people are killed each year from medical errors. If a standardized prescription process could shave 5 thousand off that, it would be a good thing!  And it makes no sense to stop with prescription information - medical records in general should be standardized and computerized.


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Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by LeLimey on Feb 10th, 2009 at 12:01pm

Batch wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 11:15am:
[size=18]Hmm…  Well, liberalism is a mental disorder…  And Bush Derangement Syndrome has now been acknowledged by the psychiatric profession as being just as debilitating and destructive as post traumatic shock syndrome…  so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at some of the comments…  


Everyone is entitled to their own political beliefs and should be able to express them without ridicule.


Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by fubar on Feb 10th, 2009 at 12:51pm

wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 12:01pm:
Everyone is entitled to their own political beliefs and should be able to express them without ridicule.



That's crazy talk


:P

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Brew on Feb 10th, 2009 at 1:11pm

wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 12:01pm:
Everyone is entitled to their own political beliefs and should be able to express them without ridicule.

But what if they're wrong?

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by zwibbs/Scott on Feb 10th, 2009 at 2:01pm
As of 1:39 PM Eastern Time--It looks like Wall Street simply adores the Obama Stimulus Package--Down 349 Points.

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by icedragon on Feb 10th, 2009 at 2:04pm

Brew wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 10:55am:

wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 10:45am:
Has everyone seen the latest news on Nadya Suleman lately?  It appears she had/has been receiving public assistance before deciding to have 8 more babies.  Does anyone here feel that she should have maybe aborted some of those fetuses?  Let us also keep in mind, the eggs are fertilized outside of the body and by failing to put them into the womb, would have also been essentially aborting the embryos...

 
Regardless of how you answer this question it was her choice and now we are going to be picking up the tab for 14 kids, and some of them for their entire lives with their use of SSI for their disabilities.

Thomas    

What's your point? Is it that killing the innocent bystanders in this mess will somehow magically clean up the mess that is their mother?

The path of least resistance....


No Brew, I believe my point was: regardless of how you feel about abortion we are all paying the price for her choices and those of her doctors.  The mess goes way beyond the mother in this situation, and it will probably happen again.  There are some things in life people just need to accept.  

For all you Pro lifers here, there are situations that call for abortion whether you like it or not.  If McCain won the election and Palin got her way in making most types of abortion illegal, abortions would still happen illegally.  Nothing you can do about it one way or the other.  Time to move on to something that can be changed.

For all the Pro choicers Here, there are situations where someone else should be making choices.  Should we really leave it up to people like this to choose it is okay to have 14 kids.  I don't think so, but if it is not okay for her to have 14 kids while on government assistance, Is it okay for anyone to have any kids while on government assistance?  Happens all the time and what is being done about that?  When will Human Rights include that when you are brought into our overcrowded world that you will have the means provided for you to support your life...  

It is a shitty situation and not much can be done to stop it no more than world hunger.  And the path of least resistance was avoided long ago when they decided to start planting embryos in her, otherwise, barren body.  I believe we should accept the things we cannot change and focus on the things we can change...I for one think we should look at and redefine what human rights really are, but I think we have much bigger, more important issues to be dealing with in the world first.     

Thomas

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Brew on Feb 10th, 2009 at 2:59pm

wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 2:04pm:

Brew wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 10:55am:

wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 10:45am:
Has everyone seen the latest news on Nadya Suleman lately?  It appears she had/has been receiving public assistance before deciding to have 8 more babies.  Does anyone here feel that she should have maybe aborted some of those fetuses?  Let us also keep in mind, the eggs are fertilized outside of the body and by failing to put them into the womb, would have also been essentially aborting the embryos...

 
Regardless of how you answer this question it was her choice and now we are going to be picking up the tab for 14 kids, and some of them for their entire lives with their use of SSI for their disabilities.

Thomas    

What's your point? Is it that killing the innocent bystanders in this mess will somehow magically clean up the mess that is their mother?

The path of least resistance....


No Brew, I believe my point was: regardless of how you feel about abortion we are all paying the price for her choices and those of her doctors.  The mess goes way beyond the mother in this situation, and it will probably happen again.  There are some things in life people just need to accept.  

For all you Pro lifers here, there are situations that call for abortion whether you like it or not.  If McCain won the election and Palin got her way in making most types of abortion illegal, abortions would still happen illegally.  Nothing you can do about it one way or the other.  Time to move on to something that can be changed.

For all the Pro choicers Here, there are situations where someone else should be making choices.  Should we really leave it up to people like this to choose it is okay to have 14 kids.  I don't think so, but if it is not okay for her to have 14 kids while on government assistance, Is it okay for anyone to have any kids while on government assistance?  Happens all the time and what is being done about that?  When will Human Rights include that when you are brought into our overcrowded world that you will have the means provided for you to support your life...  

It is a shitty situation and not much can be done to stop it no more than world hunger.  And the path of least resistance was avoided long ago when they decided to start planting embryos in her, otherwise, barren body.  I believe we should accept the things we cannot change and focus on the things we can change...I for one think we should look at and redefine what human rights really are, but I think we have much bigger, more important issues to be dealing with in the world first.     

Thomas


wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 12:01pm:
Everyone is entitled to their own political beliefs and should be able to express them without ridicule.


Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Kevin_M on Feb 10th, 2009 at 3:30pm
I've noticed Thomas (Icedragon) has been a frequent proponent of civil consideration in the past.  While being entitled to opinions, I'd be most difficult to agree ridicule applies.

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Feb 10th, 2009 at 5:08pm
I love the hypocracy.  Bias as it's finest.
Clinton is the gift that is STILL giving........yet references to Bush are considered a psychological disorder.    


Quote:
It was your government under the Clintonoids that was holding a gun to the heads of these bankers telling them to make these stupid loans or go to jail.  

Aside from the fact that is factually, figuratively and literally incorrect, why didn't Bush Jr do anything to remove the 'gun from the bankers' heads'?  

I love how taxing the rich and giving to the poor is considered the worst act anyone could ever do, then when Sarah Palin puts an extra tax on oil and gives an extra $1200 to each Alaskan citizen on top of their $2000 yearly check, that is considered a great conservative idea from a great republican governor.   :)

I love how giving tax money to abortion clinics is considered horrendous because there is no reason why government should get involved family issues, yet Bush Jr gave tax money to religious based family planning clinics and believes government should get involved in family issues.   :)

I especially loved how when those who did not wish to invade Iraq said those who do wish to invade Iraq can pay for it were called Anti-American, yet when those who do not wish to spend $850billion say those who do wish to spend $850billion can pay for it they are considered true patriots.   :)

I love how the phrase "Bush Jr is the worst President we have ever had" is treasonous, disrespectful, and hateful, while calling the new President an idiot and a bastard is not considered treasonous, disrespectful, or hateful.   :)

I love how a democratic filibuster is considered nothing more than whining while a republican filibuster is considered a useful tool on which America was based.  


It's silly....but I guess it's easier to rant based on horseshit and emotion rather than reason or facts.  


Bias at it's finest.
[smiley=crackup.gif]



Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by fubar on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:02pm
B$, Many of us who oppose the current Marxist administration are not defending Bush OR Clinton. In my opinion, they are all cut from the same cloth, and they might as well burn our constitution instead of pretending that we have one in effect.

In 3 weeks, our glorious leader has managed to spend more money than any human in history.  EVER.  Money that does not exist, by the way.  This cannot possibly be a good thing.

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Marc on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:29pm
There is a difference between Republicans and true Conservatives, just as there is a difference between Democrats and true Liberals.

IMHO, both parties have been taken over by "undesirables" as seen from each side. Short of a complete overhaul, I don't see real solutions forthcoming and the USA is entering a flat spin that scares the hell out of me.


Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Charlie on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:49pm

Quote:
Democrats and true Liberals.


Of course. Liberal is good. Conservative, not so good.

Charlie

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Brew on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:56pm
This administration almost leaves me longing for the days of Bill Clinton.

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Marc on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:56pm
Sir Charles,

I believe that definitions are required prior to passing judgments like that.  Some folks are a bit myopic on the subject, so there is no room for discussion in their case. That is not how we were designed and built.

This country has done pretty well for itself since its inception with differing points of view. Now it's coming down to "haves" vs. "have nots" and I think that you will see that right here on this board.

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Mosaicwench on Feb 10th, 2009 at 7:03pm

wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:02pm:
B$, Many of us who oppose the current Marxist administration are not defending Bush OR Clinton. In my opinion, they are all cut from the same cloth, and they might as well burn our constitution instead of pretending that we have one in effect.


As a strict Constitutionalist, I couldn't agree more.  GWB was never the "Great Hope" of Conservatives, he was the lesser of two evils.

I would prefer the Federal government stayed out of the medical field, the abortion issue, and so many other areas of life they have no business regulating and legislating.  If people feel abortion needs to be debated and kept legal, then leave it up to the individual states to decide.  Same with healthcare, same with drinking age, same with, same with, same with. . . . . .

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by M.R. on Feb 10th, 2009 at 7:26pm

Quote:
As a strict Constitutionalist, I couldn't agree more.  GWB was never the "Great Hope" of Conservatives, he was the lesser of two evils.

I would prefer the Federal government stayed out of the medical field, the abortion issue, and so many other areas of life they have no business regulating and legislating.  If people feel abortion needs to be debated and kept legal, then leave it up to the individual states to decide.  Same with healthcare, same with drinking age, same with, same with, same with. . . . . .


   Yet they feel they need to help you in everything...for your own good of course. I so long for the days of personal responsibility. You kept what you earned. If you worked hard and applied yourself, you did well. Didn't even matter which side was in charge, that was they way it worked. Now you hang out and wait for the goverment to wipe your ass. And you pay for them to wipe some one else ass while they're at it.

Mike

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Feb 10th, 2009 at 7:48pm

wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:02pm:
B$, Many of us who oppose the current Marxist administration are not defending Bush OR Clinton. In my opinion, they are all cut from the same cloth, and they might as well burn our constitution instead of pretending that we have one in effect.

In 3 weeks, our glorious leader has managed to spend more money than any human in history.  EVER.  Money that does not exist, by the way.  This cannot possibly be a good thing.


I hear that, bro.  There were some terrific things that came from the 90s.  The ROTH IRA and the long term capital gains rate reduction are 2 things that were terrific for both the people and the government.  However, personally I think the rate reduction freed up too much cash all at once and caused bubbles in other areas.  Other than a few shining lights like those, there has been a major shift since 1980 toward huge government

It burns my ass that even conservatives have lost sight of what a balanced budget means.  I heard a right wing radio host talking about how the difference between revenue and expenditure is SO great, at this point it is not possible to balance the budget.  You can't cut expenditures enough and you cant raise revenue enough.

It's just a shame that even conservatives have given up the fight.  We haven't even spent the second half of the last $700 bil package and we need another $850bil.  In the last 30 days, thats a new $1.2trillion of cash just waiting to be spent with little to no oversight.  

.........and we're just sittin' here chattin' about it.  Which means it will continue.............


Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Batch on Feb 10th, 2009 at 7:53pm
Well…  the Porkulus package passed the Senate and now goes to a committee run by House and Senate Politburo Conferees who probably never took the time to read it either like the rest of the Socialist who voted for it.  There really shouldn’t be any surprise when it gains weight and takes away more of your freedoms when it emerges…

In case you weren’t watching, all the markets took a dive on this news with the Dow dropping 280 points like a rock.  The Dow tanked even farther, down another 100 points closing down 382 in response to comments by the leading tax cheat anointed by the hand of the obamanoid himself to head the IRS, Timothy Geithner.  Although his description of a vapid 4-point Marxist financial plan apparently lacked sufficient substance or detail, it did smell an awful lot like another two to three Trillion dollars Congress won’t be able to vote on that will go down the drain over and above the trillion dollar porkulus package, so investors bailed out.

And you know…  I don’t think the obamanoid even cares…  Why should he…  After all, he has princess Pelosi and the politburo staffs burning the midnight oil to come up with legislation to nationalize remains of the 401k and IRA accounts millions of Americans worked a lifetime to build.  

Comrade Moneyman, as a professional bean counter, you should appreciate this as that plan leaked out last fall.  It calls for the Marxists to take all of the now 301k and IRA accounts and roll them into a bankrupt Social Security system after removing a substantial amount from each account to give illegal aliens welfare, free collage tuition, full unemployment, and complete medical coverage with the money you worked so hard to earn.  At that point the crooks only have the expense of writing one pathetic welfare check each month.  You knew welfare was the biggest ponzi scheme in history…  you just didn’t count on the Marxists lead socialists raiding your real retirement holdings.

And I stand corrected…  My use of the Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS) was applied incorrectly…  Thanks Monty for pointing this out…  The correct form of mental illness that applies here is Post-traumatic BDS syndrome.  That’s where well meaning liberals suffer mental anguish and depression over things like how we're going to pay for all the pork placed in the porkulus package or loss of their 401k and IRAs at the hands of their own Marxist lead socialist congress, all because they can no longer blame it on Bush…

Benjamin Franklin said it best…  “Never confuse motion with action,” and “Certainty? In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.”  

So let me add that none of us are getting out of this thing alive…  What we should strive for is a reasonable quality of life we can afford without the fear of big government raiding our savings, making decisions for us, or taking away the freedoms laid down in the Constitution that so many have fought and died for to keep us the greatest Nation.

Again, I apologize, if I’ve offended any of you with this trilogy.  It ends here.  The “I told you so” comments will not be necessary.  You’ll know soon enough when BOHICA from big government becomes a way of life…

Oh yes...  it stands for Bend Over, Here It Comes Again...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
 

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Marc on Feb 10th, 2009 at 7:59pm
I can say nothing in response to your comments Pete, because you are correct on all counts. The truth ain't pretty, but it's still the truth.

Today, the truth is something people have been taught to ignore. That is precisely why we are in this position now.

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Charlie on Feb 10th, 2009 at 8:28pm
As I posted elsewhere; it doesn't pay to argue when communisim or Marxism pops up. There is no place to land.

For Marc: The difference between Republicans that call themselves conservative and Democrats that call themselves liberal, is that the former never admits the remote possibility that another point of view even exists...other than as some psychotic episode. Democrats tend to at least acknowlege the existence of the other and that it has some validity in history. That's the real fault of liberals. They are liberal.

You have to admire the discipline of the GOP. They really know how to use being in a minority. Hopefully they will have a long run teaching us how it's done.

Charlie

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Redd on Feb 10th, 2009 at 9:59pm
Pete,

The Dow took it's biggest tank in early October 2008 when it appeared that McSame and the Alaskan Dixie Chic were a shoe in for the white house.

Better check your falling facts before you go off.

The chart tells the facts behind the the scare mongoring.
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Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by monty on Feb 10th, 2009 at 10:31pm

Batch wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 7:53pm:
In case you weren’t watching, all the markets took a dive on this news with the Dow dropping 280 points like a rock.  The Dow tanked even farther, down another 100 points closing down 382 in response to comments by the leading tax cheat anointed by the hand of the obamanoid himself to head the IRS, Timothy Geithner.  
....


Time for more critical thinking, Batch ... why did the markets really go down??  Reading the financial papers, part of it was the vagueness you mentioned, but a big part was the fact that many investors don't think the proposal is big enough.... rather than ask what is needed to fix the problem, the Dems are asking what is politically possible.  Meanwhile, the economy continues to report bad numbers.


Quote:
Robert Pavlik, chief market strategist with Banyan Partners, said that even though Geithner touts the plan as comprehensive, it does not go far enough.

"Let's face facts. It's not a blow-away plan," he said. "It seems as though it's going to be a tremendous disappointment. People were hoping for so much more."

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Quote:
“The plan is not the quick fix investors were hoping for, so there’s obvious disappointment,” said Danica Hampton, a currency strategist at Bank of New Zealand Ltd. in Wellington. “Risk aversion will probably spur them to seek the relative safety of the dollar and the yen in the near term.”

...

The European Union’s statistics office may say tomorrow that industrial production fell 9.5 percent in December from a year earlier, after a 7.7 percent decline in November, according to a Bloomberg News survey of economists.

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[quote]The Senate passed an $838.0 billion stimulus bill and the Treasury Department outlined its long-awaited plans for the bank bailout, but Wall Street took little encouragement from either development.

Instead investors harped on the challenges in reconciling bills passed by both chambers of Congress with minimal--or zero--Republican support...

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Quote:
Despite new bailout, banks likely need more money

By STEVENSON JACOBS – 4 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — The banks are getting another dose of bailout money. It's probably not enough.
...


Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Camarika Bhagga on Feb 11th, 2009 at 12:37am

wrote on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:02pm:
In 3 weeks, our glorious leader has managed to spend more money than any human in history.  EVER.  Money that does not exist, by the way.  This cannot possibly be a good thing.


And it did for TARP?? LOL

Bush allocates 750B for a few banks and a thousand wall streetwalkers
and 3/4 of the country asks, "hey, wheres MY bailout?"

Obama allocates 750B to bail out 300 million Americans and he's a Marxist, personally performing abortions down in the White House bowling alley.

LOL....

If Obama was in office 6 months ago, he would have started with the banks.
If Bush was still in office, he would be pushing to get a similar stimulus package passed.


Cammi

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by fubar on Feb 11th, 2009 at 1:52am
Cammi,

Are you new here?  Seriously, are you?

FYI, I have excoriated Bush as much as Obama, so I fail to see the point you're trying to make about my post.  They both suck.

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by fubar on Feb 11th, 2009 at 2:09am
For those who like horror flicks...

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Now, please, tell me how the stimulus package does *anything* to help...

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Camarika Bhagga on Feb 11th, 2009 at 12:47pm

wrote on Feb 11th, 2009 at 1:52am:
Cammi,

Are you new here?  Seriously, are you?



No, not new. Just a changed man  ;)



wrote on Feb 11th, 2009 at 1:52am:
Cammi,

They both suck.




See:


Camarika Bhagga wrote on Feb 11th, 2009 at 12:37am:
If Obama was in office 6 months ago, he would have started with the banks.
If Bush was still in office, he would be pushing to get a similar stimulus package passed.
Cammi



Pretty much in agreement, at least until I see that things have actually changed.
I believe it may be impossible no matter who is in charge.

A head transplant will not cure a body that is cancerous to it's marrow.

We may not be able to change the inner workings of business as usual, without a complete breakdown. Until we as a country make systemic changes that would preclude events like the Bernie Madoff scandal from ever happening, we'll be in a freefall. While that sort of greed is allowed, yes allowed, by the system to transpire, the cancer spreads. The problem is that, even though we try, you can't legislate morality.

I will say this, and take it FWIW from a guy posting for the 2nd time.

There has never been an election in this country that lifted the spirits of tens of millions of people in such a profound way. Never.
That in and of itself helps stabilize the foundation of this country and gives me hope. (Yes, I know, there's that word hope again)
Maybe Reagan, and a select few others, were close in percentages of the population feeling a deep down change, but never were so many millions uplifted in such an esoteric way.

We can't continue trying to lift people through temporary and interim ways like putting six hundred dollars in their pockets and thinking it will change their lives. It may change their month, but not their life.

Some may not like the shape of the buckets being used to help bail out a sinking ship, but I think it's being overlooked as to how many additional millions of people actually feel that this is their ship too.

As I said before, you can't legislate morality within a nation but you can try to improve the collective spirit and the will to endure, of it's people.
I think we have done that, if we give it some time to flourish.

OTOH, if Obama adds one more tax cheat to his cabinet, I take it all back and will go pawn my own bucket.  :-/

Cammi

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Jimi on Feb 11th, 2009 at 1:22pm

Quote:
No, not new. Just a changed man  


Oh I don't know. Looks like you haven't changed all that much Bob. ;)

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Linda_Howell on Feb 11th, 2009 at 2:02pm

    well, at least he's put a   "mischievious " button under his name.
;D

Title: Re: Be Critical In Your Thinking
Post by Camarika Bhagga on Feb 11th, 2009 at 4:59pm

Linda_Howell wrote on Feb 11th, 2009 at 2:02pm:
    well, at least he's put a   "mischievious " button under his name.
;D


Just trying to make you  ;D so you aren't so melancholy.


;)

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