For those of you who think the $ 165 Million in bonuses AIG paid to its exec’s is wrong…  I agree… Very poor timing too…  What’s also very disturbing about all this is that AIG reported its bonus plan in a public disclosure over a year ago – NY Times.  

Hmmm…  That’s long before TurboTax Tim Geithner who actually penned the TARP plans that allowed AIG to receive $165 Billion from the Fed  and nearly a year before Senator Chris Dodd, one of the founding fathers of the Fannie/Freddie debacle penned an amendment to the Trojan Horse stimulation bill that actually protects such bonuses…

It seams that while the Senate was constructing the 1,100 page $787 billion stimulus last month, Dodd added an executive-compensation restriction to the bill. That amendment provides an “exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009” -- which exempts the very AIG bonuses Dodd and others are now seeking to tax.  – Fox News

Perchance these idiots should have read their own legislation before they signed it into law…   And who was it that was saying big government is more efficient than business?  I still say we should deport illegal aliens, lawyers, and all idiot members of congress that signed the stimulus bill without reading it first…

True there’s been public indignation about the AIG bonuses from both sides of the isle, but the overwhelming cacophony of public cries in the liberal drive by media are clearly coming from the liberals.  

Don’t it make ya wonder why that is?  

Could it be their poll numbers are tanking?  The Obamadude’s poll numbers are lower other than all other elected presidents in the 20th and 21st centuries – Rasmussen  And Senator Chris Dodd’s poll number are also dropping like a rock.

Mean while Senator Chucky Slimer wants to pen legislation to go after the recipients of the AIG bonuses…  Hmmm…  Where do it say the government can pass a law that goes after individuals for doing their job?  This is a very dangerous precedent if passed.

So what gets you stimulated more:

• AIG, a company you own 80% of by virtue of TARP that gives out $165 million in bonuses that were previously reported,
  
• The idiots in Congress that spent $787 Billion dollars in a bill they never read before voting to approve…  and that $787 Billion isn’t even in the Treasury’s bank, or
  
• The fact that $65 Billion dollars out of the 165 Billion given to AIG is actually going to the EU countries served by AIG?

So why the public cries of rape when they knew full well about the AIG bonuses???  Well folks… It’s simple…   This is the typical spin, distraction, demonizing and redirection liberals use so they can divert your attention away from the other fact that they are about to push their socialist agenda a lot further down the road at our expense…

You see, while the Marxist trained community organizer was busy reading his teleprompter today and waving the foul flags at AIG, he was quietly launching next year’s Fiscal Budget a.k.a. the “Obamadude Plan.”  And that plan will cost all of us well over $3 Trillion Dollars, take away more freedoms, make the practice of trading frozen flatulence… err make that… trading carbon credits law, provide more startup funding for Universal Health Care, and basically take our great Nation directly into a socialist state without passing home…  BOHICA…

In closing, for the many that opined in the ICFBI !!! thread that government run Universal Health Care is more efficient than private health insurance and that it’s the only way to go…  All y’all might want to cogitate the following…

“Testifying before the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee last week, Shinseki (Heads the VA) acknowledged that the White House was considering charging veterans through their private insurance for service-related treatments, for the first time exposing wounded soldiers to co-pays and deductibles for care of their war wounds. The idea is intended to raise revenue as part of the Administration's $3.6 trillion budget. Currently, veterans only pay for treatment of injuries and ailments not a result of their military service.” – Congressional Record

Whoa Nellie…  So I take it the obamadude thinks veterans wounded in battle are not eligible for VA Health Care…   If that don’t frost yer cajones…

Oh yes…  AIG the biggest Insurance company in the world…  also pays insurance…

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this is only part of the list...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Quote from CNN
"The president was sympathetic to the needs of veterans, Gorman said, but insisted that the insurance companies are getting away with not paying for anything.

"The vets are paying premiums to insurance companies, and that is a free ride that needs to stop," Gorman said in describing the president's message to the group."


I am certainly not against the VA covering veterans service injuries.

However as a public service and an ethical choice.

I would think the insurance companies that received the premium payments for agreeing to cover the insured should then be reimbursed to those not recieving the benefits they paid for. Or give it to the VA directly rather than larger bonuses for the corporate  management teams.

Lets see 100,000 veterans treated. 540 mil. in asked for benefits. One billion plus in premiums paid by the veterans.
Avoid the payouts and bonuses can be calculated to 100 mil. and the insurance companies can still reap a 900 mil. benefit
Minus the 20 million cost of the lobbyists to make this an issue, to keep this up front and in the news.

(disclaimer all numbers are quesstimated and may or may not be true. Probably on the low side.)

Another insurance fraud? (funny how it used to be fraud against the ins companies, now its fraud against us the American people)

Where was our government when this money was being stolen from our soldiers over the last few years when the insurance companies knew full well they would never have to pay for the health care of those sent to fight for their rights to do this.
Its a crime to not pursue the money.

DUDE!!!!!

Dont know wich dude your talking to but its best for you to understand that varying viewpoints are what make this country great. Or at least they did in the past.

I couldnt imagine a country run only on Batches, Yours or even my opinions but it is the opinions and inputs of many that make this a great country.

It would then be a given that Monty would have to be in charge.

damn burned up another one

wrote on Mar 17^th, 2009 at 10:27pm:

Dude, They have pills and therapy for this.  Calm Down! I know you listen to Rush Limpballs, but he is not GOD! GWB fucked up the whole deal and this country, get over it and stop trying to blame everyone else for his short comings. Geeze ::) Take a chill pill

Another drive-by retort.  

Frankly, it's pretty bogus to register, post, then delete ones profile.  What, exactly, is the point?  

Seems a mite chickensh*t to me.    

::)

Best,

George

MJ,

I'm glad you support the VA continuing to cover veterans with service related injuries.  Having said that, as a Vietnam veteran with over 24 years of Naval service, you do all veterans a disservice by quoting from the Communist News Network...

Moreover, asking me to suspend my disbelief about anything coming from the lips of the Marxist trained community organizer in the White House or anyone in his administration is a lost cause...  They can't speak the truth...

The "Free Ride" bit is just so much liberal spin and only a diversionary attempt to avoid treating wounded war veterans in order to "save over $500 Billion in VA costs" so the Obamanoid can provide free health care to illegal aliens or some other new social entitlement like...  Universal Health Care.

The fact remains that the VA only covers injuries and treatments for same should they persist after separation or retirement from active duty service, that happened in the "Combat Zone" while on active duty.  
Injuries incurred during state side training and other non-combat related health issues happening while on active duty will be treated at military medical facilities while the service member is on active duty...  

However, after separation or retirement from military service...  any lasting medical needs not classified as service related disabilities, as well as any "new" medical problems not directly related to combat service as well as any thing new medical issues occurring after separation or retirement from the services, will require another form of medical coverage...  Read private insurance just like you and me...

Have you not heard about dioxin (Agent Orange from Vietnam) or the Gulf War Illness, or Post Traumatic Shock Syndrome the VA constantly fights to prevent covering???  

I hope you see there is no such thing as a "free ride" with Government provided medical coverage either...

Kirk good buddy... did I get that straight for the most part from your perspective?

The fact remains that the Marxist trained community organizer in the White House only cares about his social agenda, and not the statutes put in place to care for military veterans wounded in battle...  

The fact this leaked out of the White House and that it has already been defended by his administration...  speaks volumes about how little the obamadude really thinks about wounded veterans, our military forces, and the defense of our great Nation...

If that doesn't send a warm smelly mass sliding through your depends and down your legs...  I'm very sorry for you...  Demand a refund for your education...  

I'd like to see the liberal spinmeisters auger their way out of the pile of dung their Marxist trained community organizer in the White House and their socialist comrades in Congress left for them on this topic...  

They’ll be easy to spot…

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Nah....I'd say more of a wimp.   You got a point... and you JUST MAY HAVE ONE....post it here.  You won't be the first one to disagree with 'certain' people here.  (I do all of the time) Just be respectful is all.  

"If that doesn't send a warm smelly mass sliding through your depends and down your legs...  I'm very sorry for you...  Demand a refund for your education...  "

Dont hold back.
for some reason I've been laughing at this for 5 minutes now. I wish I could have used that in a meeting I had earlier today.

I defer to the Dude ex-member guy for an opinion, what say you.

Quote:

The "Free Ride" bit is just so much liberal spin and only a diversionary attempt to avoid treating wounded war veterans in order to "save over $500 Billion in VA costs" so the Obamanoid can provide free health care to illegal aliens or some other new social entitlement like...  Universal Health Care. Whoa Nellie…  So I take it the obamadude thinks veterans wounded in battle are not eligible for VA Health Care…   If that don’t frost yer cajones…

If we had universal health care, wouldn't veterans be covered? Or would the obamanoid marxist community fligulators write a loophole to exclude veterans based on a secret agreement that was negotiated in Indonesia in 1961?

In another thread, you were telling us that the private sector is the optimal way to go. Now you are telling us that only a government agency can deliver quality health care to veterans. Doesn't add up.

Maybe you are right, batch.  If veterans have private insurance through non-military jobs, we should not expect those private insurance companies to actually provide any benefits whatsoever. Under any conditions.

You've convinced me it really is unfair to ask the insurance to pay for something that happens today that is not service related - for example, if a vet who did service 20 years ago is in a car collision today, and is rushed to the closest hospital for x-rays, why should some of the bill go to private corporations that have taken money from vets and pledged to cover their medical costs?  

The system would be so much more efficient if the vets and their employers continue paying for private insurance, and the government picks up all the tab.  That is modern capitalism in America.

Batch wrote on Mar 17^th, 2009 at 10:58pm:

MJ, The fact remains that the VA only covers injuries and treatments for same should they persist after separation or retirement from active duty service, that happened in the "Combat Zone" while on active duty.   Injuries incurred during state side training and other non-combat related health issues happening while on active duty will be treated at military medical facilities while the service member is on active duty...   However, after separation or retirement from military service...  any lasting medical needs not classified as service related disabilities, as well as any "new" medical problems not directly related to combat service as well as any thing new medical issues occurring after separation or retirement from the services, will require another form of medical coverage...  Read private insurance just like you and me... Have you not heard about dioxin (Agent Orange from Vietnam) or the Gulf War Illness, or Post Traumatic Shock Syndrome the VA constantly fights to prevent covering???   I hope you see there is no such thing as a "free ride" with Government provided medical coverage either... Kirk good buddy... did I get that straight for the most part from your perspective? They’ll be easy to spot… Take care, V/R, Batch

I'm going to jump in here and defend the VA about PTDS, Agent Orange and other stuff not service related. I'm working with a vet right now who has PTDS and the VA in Shreveport has a whole department dedicated to it (we've spent the last year and a lot of time there). Waco TX VA also has a wing of their hospital set up for this and have programs for this.

As far as the cost for treatment at the VA - if you don't have insurance there is NO charge for treatment or meds. If you do have insurance they file on it and depending on your income there might be a co-pay. (one of my friends down the road pays a $7 co-pay on his heart meds).

But my friend has been treated from everything from a back injury he received in basic training to hives to PTDS to the flu and has NEVER paid a cent. And they give him "travel pay" when he comes down there.

When my husband had his stroke (not service connected at all) he spent a lot of time at the VA hospital (because the care was better than the civilian hosp). He had medicare and a supplement policy. They paid, but he was never charged for anything else including his meds.

I know there are some horror stories about the VA (and some with good cause), but the treatment I've seen there with the vets I've been associated with have been excellent for the most part.

If a person has insurance, of course they file on it (as they should), but if the vet doesn't they will still treat him/her without costs. If you don't like the doctor assgined, you can request another doc (and we have so I know that one works).

I'm not sure where your info on the VA is coming from, but I deal with them on an almost weekly basis with my friend (who is in better shape now than he was a year ago) and the treatment he's receiving is something he wouldn't be getting were it not for the VA.

This is not an argument - just a point from experience with the VA.

Hugs BD

Quote:

In another thread, you were telling us that the private sector is the optimal way to go. Now you are telling us that only a government agency can deliver quality health care to veterans. Doesn't add up.

I didn't see where Batch said only the VA can provide quality care, rather, he said they are bound to provide care.  That's what they are there for.  Now Bama wants to shift that responibility to the private sector.  How does this fit with his socialized medicine agenda?

Bob P wrote on Mar 18^th, 2009 at 6:41am:

I didn't see where Batch said only the VA can provide quality care, rather, he said they are bound to provide care.  That's what they are there for.  Now Bama wants to shift that responibility to the private sector.  How does this fit with his socialized medicine agenda?

There is no socialized medicine agenda except in batch's imagination- Obama wants to reform the system to increase the number of people covered, but has never come out in favor of a system run entirely by the government.

Yes, the VA and the US Government have a responsibility to guarantee health care to vets.  That doesn't mean that private companies that charge veterans for insurance can't be called on to actually help pay for the insured vets care.  

It is a pre-existing condition issue. I have private insurance, and that insurance will pay for something even if it is linked to a childhood injury. If I had multiple insurance policies, they would share the cost. The idea that General Shinseki proposed is to have insurance companies assume the same responsibility for their veteran clients as they do for other clients, and not transfer 100% of the cost to taxpayer and pocket the profits.

Quote:

WASHINGTON, March 16 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The leader of the nation's largest veterans organization says he is "deeply disappointed and concerned" after a meeting with President Obama today to discuss a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases.

It's a pre-existing condition for the private insurance company.  It's a current work related injury for the VA.  If you're out on worker's comp. and go out and pick up private insurance, they aren't going to reimburse your current comp carrier.  The VA has the sole responsibility to care for veterans with service related injuries.

Socialized medicine in small steps.  Didn't the omnibogus budget have $$$ for a Government office to oversee treatment of the people with the new insurance for everyone?

monty wrote on Mar 18^th, 2009 at 6:59am:

[quote author=173A370A05550 link=1237328318/11#11 date=1237372899] It is a pre-existing condition issue. I have private insurance, and that insurance will pay for something even if it is linked to a childhood injury.

It works differently here in Oregon.  If you have a group policy (through an employer) the insurance company must cover all conditions.  If you have an individual policy, the insurance company will NOT cover pre-existing conditions.  

This is a bunch of horseshit to me.  If I signed up with a health insurance company today on an individual policy, they would not cover ANY expenses for clusterheadaches.  They would certainly not cover any childhood injuries.

The insurance industry lobbied the government, and now the insurance industry is legally allowed to not pay claims.  

A$$holes.

I don't get Obama's considering treating veterans like this. All I'm hoping is that it's only an inept and crappy political move.....it better be!

At least Obama will likely think twice. With Bush, that wouldn't have been a remote possibility. (You can tell that I like our "Marxist trained president"...can't ya?)

Charlie

Just curious...
What if my employment contract said '$50k salary, $200k performance bonus'... with the performance bonus being tied to set measures of my personal achievement?

The key word here is 'contractual'.  

If I kick ass and meet all my contractual goals, but the company is run by idiots and took a government bailout... should I willingly accept an 80% pay cut?  Accept bankruptcy?  Accept financial ruin?

Do you think the word 'bonus' is confusing folks?
Would it go down better if it were termed 'contractually obligated compensation'?

Most of the AIG bonuses, poorly timed they may be, are in black and white contracts... they are not discretionary gifts.  

The numbers above are fictitious, but 40% of my compensation is tied to personal performance 'bonuses'.  If anyone thinks I should just surrender that income for any reason (whining congress, whining president, whining media), we can discuss it right after they suck my balls.  

/no, my company did not get a bailout

Well said Lobster...  And welcome back Charlie!  Who ya like or don't like is up to you...  

However, regarding the Marxist trained community organizer in the White House, it appears someone finally got to the him in the last 24 hours about forcing our wounded vets out of the VA and make them buy private medical insurance for war related injuries. That provision has now been pulled out of his $3.2 Trillion dollar federal budget according to Gen Richard Meyers, USAF, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

B$,  What a bummer on your medical insurance...  Did you have any other health care insurance options?  Perhaps you can share with us the name of the insurance company that will not cover cluster headaches so we can make them famous...  

Even Medicare and Medicaid will cover oxygen therapy for cluster headaches in most states.  Even the States that try to skip out on this coverage will pay for it if you and your doctor hold their feet to the fire.

You'll need to make sure the prescription for oxygen therapy is written properly, and that it clearly states Cluster Headache pain is the condition being treated so there's no way that it can be confused for using oxygen as a supplement for COPD.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Sen. Chris Dodd Created Bailout Loophole To Allow AIG Bonuses, Admits He Lied To America
Uh oh. Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) just dropped a major bombshell on his plans for reelection later this year. Dodd admitted to CNN, after having previously denied it, that he inserted a loophole into the bailout legislation which allowed AIG to give itself the massively undeserved bonuses via taxpayer money!

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So I guess that after all is said and done... all the liberal dick dancing and political theater so far this week was just a diversionary tactic to hide the fact that the Marxist trained community organizer in the White House and the socialists lead Congress have blown over $170 Billion dollars on AIG who passed over half of it to EU countries so that AIG is now worth less than $20 Billion dollars...  Is that the efficiency we want in Universal Health Care?

Folks...  Be real...  The idiot socialists in Congress have elevated pole-vaulting over mouse turds to a new political art form...  Why?  

Can it be the idiot socialists don't want you to know they couldn't keep track of the $170 Billion dollars of taxpayer money sent to AIG?  The company we the taxpayers own?

Is this the efficiency the liberals expect from government run Universal Health Care?

How well do you think they're going to be able to track the $878 Billion dollars ($1 Trillion if you include interest) that they're going to borrow, print, and tax to pay for the porkulus bill that they voted on before reading?  

For the liberals with nuclear seals on your depends...  Please don't go complaining about bung rash...

No wonder the Obamadude skipped town to go on Leno...  I hear tell TOTUS told him to get angry about the attacks on TurboTax Geithner...  Hmmm...  That sounds like the kiss of death for old Tim...

Take care... and be critical in what you read, hear, and watch that will affect your future.

V/R, Batch

Yeah... Dodd is the perfect illustration that standard ethics practices are not part of how congress does business.  He is the #1 recipient of AIG contributions, and through some amazing coincidence is the author of the legislation to protect the AIG bonuses.  Does it get any more fucked than that?

If you or I pulled shit that blatant we would be unemployed by the next morning.

If I want to accept more than a dinner from one of my vendors it has to go through an ethics review... which will typically result in a denial.

Our country is deeply screwed.  We definitely agree on that.  

Lobster wrote on Mar 18^th, 2009 at 9:20pm:

Our country is deeply screwed.  We definitely agree on that.

You're so right Lobster...  and between the Marxist trained community organizer in the White House and the idiot socialists in charge of Congress that have put us deeper in debt with their AIG debacle, we're going to get screwed even deeper...  This is only the tip of the iceberg... BOHICA!  

On a related note, I'm so glad the Marxist trained community organizer in the White House was forced to pull his provision to force wounded war veterans into private medical insurance that none would be able to afford in order to pay for their treatments at the VA.  

However, earlier accounts of the meeting between the Commander of the VFW and the Obamadude earlier this week clearly show his disdain and callous disregard for our Nation's military forces and a total lack of compassion for our wounded veterans.  (see below)

The Obamadude's egregious attempt to screw the wounded war veterans for $500 million while he's already blown over $2 Trillion in on his socialist agenda proves he is clearly unworthy of the title "Commander in Chief"...  

Consider this an accurate preview of Universal Health Care...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

WASHINGTON, March 16 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The leader of the nation's largest veterans organization says he is "deeply disappointed and concerned" after a meeting with President Obama today to discuss a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases.

"It became apparent during our discussion today that the President intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan," said Commander David K. Rehbein of The American Legion. "He says he is looking to generate $540-million by this method, but refused to hear arguments about the moral and government-avowed obligations that would be compromised by it."

The Commander, clearly angered as he emerged from the session said, "This reimbursement plan would be inconsistent with the mandate ' to care for him who shall have borne the battle' given that the United States government sent members of the armed forces into harm's way, and not private insurance companies. I say again that The American Legion does not and will not support any plan that seeks to bill a veteran for treatment of a service connected disability at the very agency that was created to treat the unique need of America's veterans!"

Commander Rehbein was among a group of senior officials from veterans service organizations joining the President, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki and Steven Kosiak, the overseer of defense spending at the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). The group's early afternoon conversation at The White House was precipitated by a letter of protest presented to the President earlier this month. The letter, co-signed by Commander Rehbein and the heads of ten colleague organizations, read, in part, " There is simply no logical explanation for billing a veteran's personal insurance for care that the VA has a responsibility to provide. While we understand the fiscal difficulties this country faces right now, placing the burden of those fiscal problems on the men and women who have already sacrificed a great deal for this country is unconscionable."

Batch wrote on Mar 19^th, 2009 at 12:01pm:

However, earlier accounts of the meeting between the Commander of the VFW and the Obamadude earlier this week clearly show his disdain and callous disregard for our Nation's military forces and a total lack of compassion for our wounded veterans.

Keep smoking that crack, batch.  The shrill tactics of distorting every situation and calling Democrats un-American communists and every other name in the book is working so well for y'all.


Quote:

President Barack Obama is drawing praise from veterans service groups for proposing a Veterans Affairs budget that would exceed by $1.3 billion what even the groups suggested be spent next year. No president before ever offered a VA spending plan that surpassed in size the "Independent Budget" presented to Congress by leading veterans groups. Obama seeks to fulfill several promises made to veterans during his campaign, including a big increase in VA health care budgets. But it was a new — and unpopular — proposal being studied by the administration that created uncomfortable moments for VA Secretary Eric K. Shinseki on March 10. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Overall, the package will go a long way to improve things. One proposal is controversial and may not be implemented, but it isn't because the administration is anti-veteran or socialist ... it is because, as you noted, veterans do not trust the free enterprise system of private insurance, and they would rather deal with a governmental system than the predators.  Ok. I can understand that. I think that that insurance companies should be involved in cost-sharing for veterans, just like they do cost sharing for others with insurance. But if the taxpayer has to shoulder the whole burden, that is not a problem.

Quote:

Overall, the package will go a long way to improve things.

What's in the package?

Hope it has more benefit than throwing money at AIG did!

Quote:

VVA Praises President's Budget Submission for Veterans Affairs; WASHINGTON, March 17 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- "Despite our concerns about the ill-advised proposal to require veterans' healthcare insurers to pay for treatment by the VA for service-connected health conditions, Vietnam Veterans of America hails the budget submission of President Obama for its generosity in assisting all veterans and, particularly, disabled veterans," said VVA National President John Rowan. "VVA joins fellow veterans' service organizations in condemning the proposal advanced by the Office of Management and Budget to raise revenue by charging a veteran's private health insurer for services provided by the Department of Veterans Affairs for service-connected health conditions. "However, as far as veterans are concerned, this is the best budget submitted by a President in the 30-year history of VVA." Rowan cited the proposed $25 billion increase above the baseline over the next five years; the restoration of health-care eligibility for veterans of modest incomes, which the administration predicts will enable half a million eligible veterans to access the VA health care system by 2013; and making highly disabled veterans who are medically retired from service eligible for concurrent receipt of disability benefits from the VA, in addition to the retirement benefits they receive from the Department of Defense. "Given this administration's unprecedented willingness to work with the veterans' community to make sure this budget will be one that all veterans can support enthusiastically," Rowan stated, "we feel comfortable that, with President Obama having met with veteran leaders yesterday in the White House and the willingness of senior staff to conduct follow-up meetings, they are receptive to our ideas on how to make this budget better for veterans. "We look forward to working with the White House, now and in the future, to ensure that veterans don't have to fight and scrape for every additional dollar in the budget," Rowan added. "We call on Congress to make its adjustments and pass this budget, not only on time for the 2010 fiscal year, but early enough so VA managers will know what they can expect to receive so they can plan to accommodate the needs of the veterans they serve." START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Bob P wrote on Mar 19^th, 2009 at 1:46pm:

Quote: Overall, the package will go a long way to improve things. What's in the package? Hope it has more benefit than throwing money at AIG did!

The bigger benefit to the administration is that it throws more fuel on the class warfare fire.

You gotta be able to create crises if you want to be able to solve crises.

As most of you know, I’m a strong believer in capitalism and I abhor any form of socialism, or in its western European equivalent, Social-Democrats, or as I call it, Socialism in disguise.......

But!

I do condemn the form of capitalism, and its ugly manifestation as we find today in global corporations, and large international conglomerates, such as AIG in the USA or the UBS in Switzerland, and the list is long, and growing longer, all over the world...  Today’s CEO’s, their boards of directors, and the feeding frenzy of political electives hacks eagerly accepting their generous political contributions (not only in the USA!), have perverted globalization and capitalism, with their arrogance, vanity, and total disconnection with reality...  

A company that’s losing money and in the “red” that seeks financial rescue with taxpayer funding, and yet still pays huge bonus and other perks to it’s employs in all levels, even if these bonuses were based on last year’s (so called) performance, is not only outrageous, it’s
outright theft!  
its taking money that is from someone else, supposedly to prevent the collapse of the company and spend that money for the employs, in what ever level, for there own benefit!

I call it out right theft!

I do believe in the share value, globalization and capitalism.  I also believe that hard work shared moral values are the life blood of a healthy global economy! It appears that all too often, the mind set of corporate leadership as well as the political echelon has allowed arrogance and vanity to corrupt moral values leaving them bowing to the golden calf, as the old Hebrews did at the foot of Mount Sinai...  

Capitalism is not about prostrating oneself before a golden image, it is about hard work and the principal-based values of self respect, respect for the society, and most importantly, responsibility and accountability...

I’m still a capitalist, and I still believe in free market capitalism.  I also believe that as individuals, we must be responsible to ourselves, our families, and to the society we live in.  In a democracy, we elect governments to write laws and regulations that protect the rights and freedoms of individual, but not to provide for the individual...  The situation we are facing at this point is an economical disaster of global proportions, where greed has overshadowed moral decency not just in the USA, but all over the world.

The onus is now on the people to adjust to this new world.  We need to learn how to live within our means, to be more humble, less greedy, and more responsible.   The worldwide upside down economy didn’t just happen because of a few corrupt corporate CEOs.  Too many people and governments were living on borrowed money and credit far beyond their means.  This fueled the economies around the world with even more borrowed money.  As citizens, we failed to recognize the building problems and we also failed to hold our elected officials accountable for meaningful solutions.  That left us living in a constant financial delirium with little, if any sense of responsibility and bowing collectively in in a consumer's frenzy to the golden image, ignoring the most fundamental rule of capitalism – responsibility and accountability!

Michael

(And who sustains the world……….
It is the voices of the children who study………..
And the world is saved………….
for the sake of these children……..)

There you go again Monty…  Liberals just can’t take the truth or answer any question that might reveal their true socialist agenda…  

Folks… once you’re on to their game, it’s so amusing to watch how they spin away with misdirection, clumsy prestidigitation, and distorted logic to distract people from their true motives.  When their first barrage of sophomoric attempts at misdirection and smoke screens fail, they go back to their dog-eared playbook with obvious attempts to discredit anyone that points out what they’re up to as you can see below…  That’s when you’ll know you’ve caught them at their own game and you're running up the score against them...

Quote:

Keep smoking that crack, batch.  The shrill tactics of distorting every situation and calling Democrats un-American communists and every other name in the book is working so well for y'all.

The more tech-savvy liberals incapable of self-direction, now reach for their crackberries for the latest twitter from socialist central so they can stay on message…  After all, we’ve all seen what TOTUS has done for the Marxist trained community organizer…

The really powerful liberal spinmeisters have been known resort to the nuclear option as a reckless game changer…  A good example of this came amidst the flurry of gaffs like Travelgate that came after the Clintonistas invaded the White House that made them out to look so silly...  or were they?  Had it not been for a good citizen that leaked the fact the Hillary had FBI files on all the Republican Congressmen delivered to the White House, this criminal act would have gone completely unnoticed.  That’s a matter of record…

It’s also pretty obvious the Marxist trained community organizer and the real brains in the White House, Rahm “dead fish” Emanuel, are using the Cloward-Piven strategy to attack capitalism…  Why else would they try to destroy AIG, a company they (we as taxpayers) own…  and in the process… demonize every other major US corporation…  Have you wondered why, after the AIG dog and pony show was over, they’ve quietly offered up Senator Chris Dodd and TurboTax Geithner as sacrificial lambs…

Speaking of strategies and tactics…  don’t ya kind of wonder why the Obamadude just had to fly out to the left coast to do the Leno show?  BTW the local fish wrap here in DC already let it slip that the Obamadude’s operatives have already been in advanced talks with Leno’s folks…  Looks like the fix is in…

Liberals…  Take your super-sized Kool-Aid big gulps and get comfy for tonight’s Leno show…  The word is there’ll be soft ball floaters right down the middle so the Obamadude can swing for the fence…  then possibly a single fast ball or a sinker…   Look for messianic level spin and a barb or two at Rush Limbaugh and the Republicans…   Oh… yes…  The Obamadude will also take the responsibility for AIG…  After all…  He is the President…  and he can’t blame Bush.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Batch wrote on Mar 19^th, 2009 at 6:40pm:

[size=18]There you go again Monty…  Liberals just can’t take the truth or answer any question that might reveal their true socialist agenda…

Your impersonation of Reagan is pretty thin.

More importantly, you charged that the current administration has a contempt for veterans, which was conclusively shown to be false. You should be ashamed at such a pathetic attempt to use the troops for partisan political games. But it doesn't surprise me.

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[smiley=headbanger.gif]

Batch wrote on Mar 19^th, 2009 at 6:40pm:

...obvious attempts to discredit...

Befuddling to differentiate a mentioning others using discrediting expressions while noting disesteeming ones like: "your super-sized Kool-Aid big gulps", "hyper-spin snipes", "from the Communist News Network", "I'm very sorry for you...  Demand a refund for your education", "global warming cool-aide guzzlers", "diminished mental capacity", and "eliminate these idiots from the gene pool..."

flipperlips wrote on Mar 19^th, 2009 at 9:00pm:

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I don't think he'll get a visit from the Secret Service.

Nah.

To listen to you crazy ultra-conservative hypo's / Bush apologists blame all the world's woes on Obama since BEFORE he got into office is one of the most near-sighted and ignorant things I have ever seen / read / heard.

Bush took a dream scenario of being handed a world record surplus from his competitor and a national crisis which garnered him the most support a president has ever seen (from all sides - domestic and foreign) and he turned it into a world record deficit, the worst economy since the Great Depression and shredded the Constitution while doing so. And Bush also acted unilaterally more than any president in history as well, so you can't say it wasn't him.

So, crazy hypo-cons. reconcile this: The years of prosperity that this country observed under Clinton were actually result of Reagan's actions more than a decade earlier (that is the standard conservative line anyways).

YET - Obama gets handed the biggest shit sandwich in the history of the USA and he is roasted for it before he even gets his underwear unpacked and into a dresser drawer in the White House.

How is it so?

Just like all the cons bashing the stimulus bill and imply that it is democratic in nature because of all the pork. In fact, the bill has less pork than normal (percentage-wise, if only slightly) and it has the usual number of "pork authors", which include every single republican save 39 of them. They don’t want you to know the whole truth, just the part that will make you listen to them.

I guess that is what happens when ya listen to a drug addict on the radio who forced his maid to deal with the Russian mob to get his drugs.

I believe the USA is going to no longer exist, in my lifetime, because of shit like this.

DJ, please make a new board titled "Conservative cry-babies post here" for those who cried the whole time the democrats were trying to stop Bush from becoming the most hated president in history, and now who are crying because someone is stuck trying to clean up that mess. Those people will do nothing but cry and piss and moan because that is what they do. This country could become Nazi Germany and they still wouldn't be happy with the level of conservatism in the country.

Seriously, make it. It is just to energy sapping to open thread after thread only to find more crazed politiccal rantings. Maybe make them post [Crazed conservative rants] in the subject. I know, maybe they should go to a POLITICAL message board.

Anyone insane enough to be completly unreasonable and expect anything to happen in less than two month, and rant endlessly about it in the face of all reason isn't an American IMO. They are seperatists. Please, lets let them seperate themselves from this country. Your either trying to help this country get anywhere but where we are now, or you a big part of the problem, if not the problem.

Enough already. I am not a democrat but the longer stupid hypocritical shit like this goes on the more I am warming up to the idea of registering as one.

flipperlips wrote on Mar 19^th, 2009 at 9:00pm:

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Can you say crystal meth? and who said it makes one paranoid?
;D ;D

with warm regards,
Tony

superhawk2300 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2009 at 8:22am:

<snip> I guess that is what happens when ya listen to a drug addict on the radio who forced his maid to deal with the Russian mob to get his drugs. <snip>

You mean this one????

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;D

with warm regards,
Tony

Artonio wrote on Mar 20^th, 2009 at 12:23pm:

Can you say crystal meth? and who said it makes one paranoid? ;D ;D with warm regards, Tony

Ah, yes.  But was that guy really a deranged person calling for a revolt, or was he an calculating entertainer selling t-shirts? Did ya catch the commercial at the end?

monty wrote on Mar 20^th, 2009 at 12:39pm:

Artonio wrote on Mar 20th, 2009 at 12:23pm: Can you say crystal meth? and who said it makes one paranoid? ;D ;D with warm regards, Tony Ah, yes.  But was that guy really a deranged person calling for a revolt, or was he an calculating entertainer selling t-shirts? Did ya catch the commercial at the end?

He'll need to sell a lot of tee-shirts to afford the meth required to maintain that high. I'm thinking of buying a few... maybe we'll be lucky enough to watch him spontaneously combust in his next Whackommercial.
;D


with warm regards,
Tony

So let me see if I have this right…  It is perfectly acceptable and OK that:

• More than half of Congress voted for an $878 Billion dollar ($1 Trillion dollars with interest) stimulus spending bill without reading it.
  
• Senator Chris Dodd lied to the public about an amendment he added to that Stimulus Bill exempting bonus restrictions on private citizens working for corporations receiving TARP bailout funding if these bonuses were “contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009”
  
• The Secretary of the Treasury, TurboTax Geithner, knew about AIG’s bonus plans when he drafted the TARP legislation last year yet lied about it last week by saying he just be came aware of it
  
• We have a tax cheat serving as our Secretary of the Treasury and he lies
  
• Most of Congress and the Obama administration already knew about bonuses being paid by corporations receiving TARP bailout funding early this year yet had to wait until last weekend to feint public outcries of indignation demonizing private citizens START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE
  
• Barney Frank demanded the names of private citizens working for AIG that received bonuses, but that he still keeps the political contributions from Fannie Mae's CEO Franklin Rains who took over $90 Million in bonuses and other compensations for cooking the books to earn those bonuses
  
• The House passed a punitive tax measure bill against a select number of private citizens working for AIG and other corporations in receipt of TARP bailouts that received bonuses…  And if the Senate passes this bill it also sets a precedent that it is perfectly acceptable that Congress can pass similar punitive tax legislation that will affect you.
  
• While the liberal led Congress and the administration are conducting an all out assault against individual private citizens and wailing over $165 Million dollars in bonuses yet they fail to say anything about the over $50 BILLION DOLLARS being paid to bailout foreign banks…  
  
• Obama’s present and planned spending will push the United States deeper in debt with deficit spending to the tune of $1 Trillion dollars a year for the next 10 years and that the present debt as of 03/18/2009 was $11,034,225,094,391.03 ($11.034 Trillion dollars) START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE with no spending cuts in spending in sight with the exception of his egregious attempt to screw our Nation’s wounded war veterans. Or that
  
• The Fed announced it would buy $1.15 Trillion dollars worth of bonds to lower borrowing costs, the dollar dropped to its lowest rate of exchange since the ‘80s and Gold jumped over $25 an ounce in less than 2 hours because the people who sold dollars and bought Gold clearly understand that in order to do this, the treasury must print the $1.15 Trillion dollars to buy these bonds.

Hmmm…  Well, if more than half of you are willing to accept any or all the above…  BOHICA!

If you want to see what the professional watch dogs at CBO have to say…  Do yourself a favor and go to START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE  and decide for your self.

Regarding the chosen one’s messianic musings last night on Leno sans TOTUS… the Special Olympic sinker on his bowling score was very telling…  

I wish you well…  For once I agree with Maxine Waters…

V/R, Batch