I recently read on a couple of posts that kip 10's were a very rare and unique experience. I replied to the post but i decided to start a new thread as this topic has made me very curious. I would like to relate my experience because i thought each and everyone of us were very similar whilst in cycle.


I started taking cluster headaches in my very late teens or early twenties to be honest its that long ago I'm not quite sure. Anyway the older I got the longer the cycles and bigger the hits became. I have often read that people getting hit by a kip 4 or 5 and then it stopping was a rarity.

I can honestly say that during the last 10 years in which i have gone through five 6 to 7 week cycles (episodic every 2 or 3 years) each time I take a hit it goes from feeling pressure to within 5mins I'm banging my head, screaming and biting into cushions or anything I could get my hands on. (Why Me and suicidal..) It's very extreme pain and I can withstand alot of physical pain many a broken bone, torn ligaments etc through years of soccer, Gaelic, basketball and a couple of motor bike and car crashes.

I am now 37 and this is my first cycle that I've had the proper meds to fight back and to be honest this has been totally manageable to a degree just a couple of big hits and loads of shadows. Though I do find the kip scale a bit confusing at times. I personally believe the difference between a kip 8 and 10 is the duration of the attack

The best way i can describe the hits I was taking 4 to 6 times a day  for at least two hours at a time without fail was watching Artonio taking his hit on You Tube only with loads of pacing and banging my head with the heel of my hand .Unfortunately I have never suffered any thing less than this with each hit.

I really don't know what level on the kip scale Artonio would rate that hit only he can answer that. Surely I cannot be the only one out there that suffers big hits with every attack if untreated. I really thought that everyone suffered to the same degree if untreated their attack would climb right to the top of the kip scale like myself.

Hey I'm hoping I'm wrong and I am in deed some sort of freak

Lefty...!

Hey Lefty,
Sorry to have you in a state of confusion over my post on the other thread. Please re-read that post. Those two kip 10's were like nothing I have ever experienced. I max out out at kip 8 these days with perhaps a couple of 9 at my peak of cycle (April -July), and believe me, that's a bummer. Not trying to discredit the kip scale in any way, but this may be another way to consider a pain scale. It begins at 6 because as I'm sure all would agree, anything less is manageable (meaning that we can bear with it).

Pain level 6
Very sharp and definite burning, rocking necessary, pressure like heated fork pushing against temple/eye area.

Pain level 7
Repeat Sharp for rest, Burning more intense, similar to the heated fork or skewer actually penetrating into the skull but not through it, possible spreading to cheek and jaw area like a mild to bad toothache.

Pain level 8
Pain now at a level of a red hot poker replaced by the heated fork or skewer, burrowing from temple to eye. Possible tightness and burning in the jaw area, similar to a severe toothache.

Pain level 9
Similar to Level 8 but pain now spreading to cheek and beyond also sensation of intense pressure from inside trying to push out.

Pain level 10
Major pain, screaming, head banging, ER trip. Depressed. Suicidal. From a Level 9 you now will experience the feeling you scull is being split open and salt being poured into it. Nothing to compare to this level. Can result in Blackouts. Dangerously intense.

TedtheBear wrote on Apr 25^th, 2009 at 9:04pm:

Quote: Pain level 6 Very sharp and definite burning, rocking necessary, pressure like heated fork pushing against temple/eye area. Pain level 7 Repeat Sharp for rest, Burning more intense, similar to the heated fork or skewer actually penetrating into the skull but not through it, possible spreading to cheek and jaw area like a mild to bad toothache. Pain level 8 Pain now at a level of a red hot poker replaced by the heated fork or skewer, burrowing from temple to eye. Possible tightness and burning in the jaw area, similar to a severe toothache. Pain level 9 Similar to Level 8 but pain now spreading to cheek and beyond also sensation of intense pressure from inside trying to push out. Pain level 10 Major pain, screaming, head banging, ER trip. Depressed. Suicidal. From a Level 9 you now will experience the feeling you scull is being split open and salt being poured into it. Nothing to compare to this level. Can result in Blackouts. Dangerously intense.

Tedthebear I think I have found myself a new scale to reference, I'm wincing just reading the thing... :'(
Good to know I'm not a freak after all, my cycle sounds identical to your own only difference mine being Feb to April. As for my new kip 10 I don't remember ever coming close to a full blackout besides trying to self inflict one, so thankfully I think I may not have suffered one of these unique baby's yet.... Thanks for the clarification..!

Lefty...

Dear Lefty:

Like you, I've had broken bones, etc., was able to joke with the doctors in the ER.

I don't have any low kip scale hits any more (22 years chronic), except for shadows.  They're all 7 and up.  When it's high season, it feeds my depression like nobody's business.  I just try to have my O2 and Imitrex handy and live the best I can (fullest) between hits.  

Wishing you well,

Ray

Lefty, the length of a hit, does NOT, in my mind, make a hit a KIP10 ... I have had 3 hours hits, that were not 10's.  A few of my 10's have only been 45 minutes or so.

In thirty years, I have only had a handful of them.  Once you have one, you all of a sudden know what we are talking about.  They are VERY unique, and different from any other hit you have ever had.

ALSO, one person's pain is not equatable to another's pain.  You mentioned Tony's hit.  Maybe it was only a KIP7, for him.  Yet to another person, (if it was possible to transfer that exact pain level to another person) it would have been a KIP9.  Maybe to a third person it was only a KIP5.

But, let's face it, WHATEVER it is, it sucks big time!  

Ted, although I worship Bob Kipple's memory and feel so honored to have know him and his delightful wife, your description adds nicely to Bob's original scale.  Nicely done!

Chuck

I've said this more than once......I used to think I had experienced a 10.....until I actually had one.

I too believe pain is relative. As Chuck states, one person's 7 is someone else's 9.

I don't really classify my hits anymore unless someone asks. It hurts like hell.....that's all I really need to know.

B

ClusterChuck wrote on Apr 25^th, 2009 at 11:08pm:

Ted, although I worship Bob Kipple's memory and feel so honored to have know him and his delightful wife, your description adds nicely to Bob's original scale.  Nicely done! Chuck

Thanks, Chuck!
I really can't take credit for this. I found it somewhere on the web awhile back. Don't remember where - sorry.

i fully agree with each persons experience with pain is different, heres what i use the
SHARON SCALE:-
1:- you forgot to do the washing up
2:- you forgot to do the washing up and didnt take the rubbish out
3:- im having my period and your allways under my feet, get a job and stop slobbing around
4:- your going out with you mates for a pint or three
5:- you came home at 6 in the morning drunk out off your skull
6:- you are suspected of having an affair
7:- you have been caught with lipstick on your collar and smell of womens perfume
8:- caught in bed with a very attractive woman
9:- caught in bed with 2 very attractive women, one of wich is sharons sister
10 caught in bed with a man, 2 women (one being the sister) and the pet dog (dressed in stockings)

hope this helps  ;D ;D ;D ;D