Post by Lefty on Apr 26th, 2009 at 9:29pm
I think it’s great on this forum that we have the freedom to discuss our political beliefs and more importantly our CH’s related dilemmas’ but we also have the freedom to hit the ignore button. So please feel free to read on or hit that button because I have a feeling that this won’t be a very popular post for two reasons.
(1) Its just too bloody long…!
(2) Its not what America wants to hear right now…!
But I do hope you choose to read on because my intentions are not to offend but to offer a voice from the other side of the spectrum….!
I have read with amusement on many of the political posts on this forum and how they basically end up Democrat vs Republican and very internal in relation to their content and also how Obama is a threat to America’s security. Please let me relate my story of living under an occupying foreign Army and why I believe that you’re former Commander in chief’s foreign policy will offer you no security from Islamic terrorists but having the opposite effect in swelling the ranks of Al-Qaida and increasing the risk to you my new found friends in America.
The American military are now making the very same mistakes that the British made when they returned to the streets of N.Ireland in 1969. Something I’m sure that we all would agree on is that the military are a fighting force and not a law and order force like the police, but this is exactly what your military are being asked to do in Iraq and to a certain degree in Afghanistan. By their presence and actions in N.Ireland the British army were the biggest recruiters for the IRA and unfortunately I believe the American army are also having the same effect in the Middle East.
Unfortunately I was born right in the middle of the troubles (1971). As I grew up I watched as the carnage unfolded around me. I was very fortunate that my parents were able to give me a very normal life and offer me guidance. I had no close family members or friends killed during these times, although I knew many people from my town who were not so fortunate. This is not to say I have been unaffected by events surrounding me. Depending on which army unit was on tour my friends and I teenage years were spent being stopped and searched, insulted and generally degraded by the army and police on a very regular basis. (The parachute regiment being the worst offenders)….!
On one occasion I was returning from my friend’s house at around 1am when I encountered an army patrol, unknown to me a couple of their colleagues’ had been shot dead in Belfast earlier that night, (For most young catholic men this was a reason to stay of the streets) understandable they were very agitated as they had just lost a couple of soldiers. But hence they made their first mistake like many soldiers before and after. They believed because I was a young catholic man living in a predominately catholic town that I must be either in the IRA or a sympathiser. (I was none of the fore mentioned, woman, music and the occasional sneaky drink were my main goal in life...) Needless to say I was severely beaten for being in the wrong place at the right time and not for the first time either. If I had have chosen to run there was a strong possibility that I could have been shot by a very young nervous soldier. Don’t get me wrong I have spoken to some truly genuine sincere young squaddies over the years that unfortunately were just doing a job they loved in very difficult circumstances.
I used to wonder why the IRA used to blow up businesses in my home town which was 99% predominately catholic while they spouted the same old garbage that they were in existence to protect the catholic people from the British and loyalist death squads. Then it figured, what company would set up in town if this threat existed. If there was no employment and nothing flourished the people would become disenchanted and look for someone to blame, and they the faceless men would be waiting in the wings with their propaganda to swell their ranks with the youth of the town. Unfortunately the British army contributed to this influx to the IRA on many occasions with Bloody Sunday being there greatest massacre:
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Although I was never tempted myself as I was lucky and had some very strong role models in my life I could understand to a degree why some people chose this route.
Unfortunately I can see history repeating itself in the streets of Bagdad and Kabul. For every stray missile that kills civilians the Al-Qaida propaganda machine will be there to pick up the pieces. Please don’t mention unfortunate collateral: means nothing to the families….! There are many other similarities between both conflicts and interment without trial is one that stands out.
While internment in itself provided limited, if any, security benefits the social and political reaction which internment created far outweighed this. As a result violence increased and the SDLP, the only major Catholic political party in Northern Ireland, refused to become involved in political talks while internment continued. It is clear, however, that the main winners from the introduction of internment were the Provisional IRA, The army quite often simply picked up the wrong people, a son for a father, the wrong ‘man with a beard living at no. 47’ and so on. But by the time they were released, a number had suffered quite brutal treatment, as had those still detained … Internees were beaten with batons, kicked and forced to run the gauntlet between lines of club-wielding soldiers. I believe that this part of Irish history can easily be related to Guantanamo Bay and I can assure you the results are pretty much the same. (Victory for the IRA and Al-Qaida and defeat for democracy..!)
Like most people on this side of the Atlantic, when you voted in George Bush, we all knew it was only a matter of time before America became involved in the Middle East. It was going to happen 9/11 or not. Bush, Cheney, Halliburton etc could not see the carnage they would cause for the dollars lining the pockets of themselves and their cronies(Hence the so called WMD’s) .This is very difficult for me to say as I know many of you have military backgrounds and have sons and daughters in the military. You can not install a democracy with brute force, the only reason Bush and Blair invaded Iraq was oil and money, pure and simple. I feel disgusted as a citizen of the west that we all sat back when over a million women, children and men were slaughtered in Rwanda or the current plight in Darfur but ‘hey’ no money to be made.
In order to get your sons and daughters to fight they had to push the whole security of America depends on it crap…WMD’s, dirty bombs etc. Without question..! I know your children are fighting for the love of their country and more importantly for themselves and their colleagues but over 3000 young American soldiers have lost their lives and for what..! The allied backed Afghan Government has introduced a law which allows men to rape their wife’s if sex is refused. Al-Qaida’s numbers are growing each day and more worrying than any of the conflicts in the Middle East is the advancement of Al-Qaida in the nuclear power of Pakistan. Here lies the next battlefield where unfortunately more of your young soldiers will perish.
I really hope that President Obama follows through on his pledge to find alternative sources of power and severs your link with Saudi Arabia and hopefully you can bring your children home, and there you can defend your borders from attack and we across the Atlantic will stand shoulder to shoulder with you. But once you step foot in another Country there will be collateral damage and military mistakes made and after short period of time you will be seen as the oppressor and I can assure you your enemy will be there waiting to capitalise on your mistakes.
As a nation you have some really great diplomats, Senator George Mitchell was instrumental in brokering piece in N.Ireland without him I don’t know if the outcome would have been as successful. I think you are such an amazing and powerful nation you really do not know what to do with this power at times. Engage in diplomacy America because believe it or not you’re really quite good at it.
Lefty…!
(1) Its just too bloody long…!
(2) Its not what America wants to hear right now…!
But I do hope you choose to read on because my intentions are not to offend but to offer a voice from the other side of the spectrum….!
I have read with amusement on many of the political posts on this forum and how they basically end up Democrat vs Republican and very internal in relation to their content and also how Obama is a threat to America’s security. Please let me relate my story of living under an occupying foreign Army and why I believe that you’re former Commander in chief’s foreign policy will offer you no security from Islamic terrorists but having the opposite effect in swelling the ranks of Al-Qaida and increasing the risk to you my new found friends in America.
The American military are now making the very same mistakes that the British made when they returned to the streets of N.Ireland in 1969. Something I’m sure that we all would agree on is that the military are a fighting force and not a law and order force like the police, but this is exactly what your military are being asked to do in Iraq and to a certain degree in Afghanistan. By their presence and actions in N.Ireland the British army were the biggest recruiters for the IRA and unfortunately I believe the American army are also having the same effect in the Middle East.
Unfortunately I was born right in the middle of the troubles (1971). As I grew up I watched as the carnage unfolded around me. I was very fortunate that my parents were able to give me a very normal life and offer me guidance. I had no close family members or friends killed during these times, although I knew many people from my town who were not so fortunate. This is not to say I have been unaffected by events surrounding me. Depending on which army unit was on tour my friends and I teenage years were spent being stopped and searched, insulted and generally degraded by the army and police on a very regular basis. (The parachute regiment being the worst offenders)….!
On one occasion I was returning from my friend’s house at around 1am when I encountered an army patrol, unknown to me a couple of their colleagues’ had been shot dead in Belfast earlier that night, (For most young catholic men this was a reason to stay of the streets) understandable they were very agitated as they had just lost a couple of soldiers. But hence they made their first mistake like many soldiers before and after. They believed because I was a young catholic man living in a predominately catholic town that I must be either in the IRA or a sympathiser. (I was none of the fore mentioned, woman, music and the occasional sneaky drink were my main goal in life...) Needless to say I was severely beaten for being in the wrong place at the right time and not for the first time either. If I had have chosen to run there was a strong possibility that I could have been shot by a very young nervous soldier. Don’t get me wrong I have spoken to some truly genuine sincere young squaddies over the years that unfortunately were just doing a job they loved in very difficult circumstances.
I used to wonder why the IRA used to blow up businesses in my home town which was 99% predominately catholic while they spouted the same old garbage that they were in existence to protect the catholic people from the British and loyalist death squads. Then it figured, what company would set up in town if this threat existed. If there was no employment and nothing flourished the people would become disenchanted and look for someone to blame, and they the faceless men would be waiting in the wings with their propaganda to swell their ranks with the youth of the town. Unfortunately the British army contributed to this influx to the IRA on many occasions with Bloody Sunday being there greatest massacre:
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to
or END PRINTPAGEAlthough I was never tempted myself as I was lucky and had some very strong role models in my life I could understand to a degree why some people chose this route.
Unfortunately I can see history repeating itself in the streets of Bagdad and Kabul. For every stray missile that kills civilians the Al-Qaida propaganda machine will be there to pick up the pieces. Please don’t mention unfortunate collateral: means nothing to the families….! There are many other similarities between both conflicts and interment without trial is one that stands out.
While internment in itself provided limited, if any, security benefits the social and political reaction which internment created far outweighed this. As a result violence increased and the SDLP, the only major Catholic political party in Northern Ireland, refused to become involved in political talks while internment continued. It is clear, however, that the main winners from the introduction of internment were the Provisional IRA, The army quite often simply picked up the wrong people, a son for a father, the wrong ‘man with a beard living at no. 47’ and so on. But by the time they were released, a number had suffered quite brutal treatment, as had those still detained … Internees were beaten with batons, kicked and forced to run the gauntlet between lines of club-wielding soldiers. I believe that this part of Irish history can easily be related to Guantanamo Bay and I can assure you the results are pretty much the same. (Victory for the IRA and Al-Qaida and defeat for democracy..!)
Like most people on this side of the Atlantic, when you voted in George Bush, we all knew it was only a matter of time before America became involved in the Middle East. It was going to happen 9/11 or not. Bush, Cheney, Halliburton etc could not see the carnage they would cause for the dollars lining the pockets of themselves and their cronies(Hence the so called WMD’s) .This is very difficult for me to say as I know many of you have military backgrounds and have sons and daughters in the military. You can not install a democracy with brute force, the only reason Bush and Blair invaded Iraq was oil and money, pure and simple. I feel disgusted as a citizen of the west that we all sat back when over a million women, children and men were slaughtered in Rwanda or the current plight in Darfur but ‘hey’ no money to be made.
In order to get your sons and daughters to fight they had to push the whole security of America depends on it crap…WMD’s, dirty bombs etc. Without question..! I know your children are fighting for the love of their country and more importantly for themselves and their colleagues but over 3000 young American soldiers have lost their lives and for what..! The allied backed Afghan Government has introduced a law which allows men to rape their wife’s if sex is refused. Al-Qaida’s numbers are growing each day and more worrying than any of the conflicts in the Middle East is the advancement of Al-Qaida in the nuclear power of Pakistan. Here lies the next battlefield where unfortunately more of your young soldiers will perish.
I really hope that President Obama follows through on his pledge to find alternative sources of power and severs your link with Saudi Arabia and hopefully you can bring your children home, and there you can defend your borders from attack and we across the Atlantic will stand shoulder to shoulder with you. But once you step foot in another Country there will be collateral damage and military mistakes made and after short period of time you will be seen as the oppressor and I can assure you your enemy will be there waiting to capitalise on your mistakes.
As a nation you have some really great diplomats, Senator George Mitchell was instrumental in brokering piece in N.Ireland without him I don’t know if the outcome would have been as successful. I think you are such an amazing and powerful nation you really do not know what to do with this power at times. Engage in diplomacy America because believe it or not you’re really quite good at it.
Lefty…!