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http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Daily Chat >> General Posts >> marijuana debate on cnn http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1245288986 Message started by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 9:36pm

Title: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 9:36pm

the major opponents of legalized marijuana are anheuser busch, dupont, and all major drug companies. these are the corporations that pay for those partners for a drug free America. corporatism at its finist

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no matter what your political views are many of you have a great deal of admiration for these pioneers of the american dream.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Brew on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 9:54pm

I don't have a huge problem with legalizing pot, but we need to pass and enforce tougher drunk driving laws first. Driving under the influence of any mind altering substance needs to have much lower legal thresholds, and pot would need to be included in that.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 11:33pm

Brew wrote on Jun 17^th, 2009 at 9:54pm:

i totally agree. i advocate the legalization not because of the the buzz but because of it vast benefits and uses. dupont is worried about the strengths of hemp givinf them some competition. anheuser busch doesn't what it legal because the thing they will sell less beer. prescription drug don't like it for all sorts of reasons. these are just a small few of corpatons that lobby to keep it illeagal.

think of all millions of $$$ of tax dollar money spent on this mexican drug war. this money is spent to protect the profits of major corporations.

pot is as easy to grow as tomatoes. its not like mexico is the only place pot will grow yet it moves thousands of miles out across our highways and by ways by smugglers and thugs. if legalized these thugs would be out of a job. if you didn't want to grow it you could buy it at a tobacco store in town and pay taxes on it. your not allowed to walk into a tobacco shop unless your 18

keep in mind i'm not talking about coke or meth. i specifically mean marijuana.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by wildhaus on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 2:43am

Legalizing drug abuse is like letting the population drink (alcohol) with out limits!
as long as we globally can not contain drunk driving, and we do (in most countries)
have very strong laws, and yet still have a growing abuse, especially in the youth!
Why to add another component, that is a dangers, for recreational use
and in combination with alcohol even more so!

As for medical use, yes..... but then as a prescription drug, and that will make it one more
substance that is controlled by the pharma industry, and the price will rocket sky high, it will
need to get all the approvals, tested and that is very costly.........

selling the drugs over the counter will be a card blanch for abuse.......

I just don’t see how can the law and law enforcement control abuse, as perverted as it is
I would rather have a safer streets, and highways, then legalize the substances....
I do not want to see my kids killed by a drug (cannabis) user killed, driving under intoxication!

and yes I do (know) with that stance condemn some to suffering, and deny some from a possible
cure, or at least a better quality of life........

As long as we as a society can not control efficiently the abuse of intoxicating substances that
are legal, namely alcohol, I object strongly to add even more loos cannons on the population!

And to the Parma industry.... yes drugs are very costly, and the pharma giants do control the
markets, that is part of the globalization we all (most of us) promoted.....
BUT! the cost of research is not the only reason for the high cost...... it is the very high (over priced)
complicated certification process cost that is caused by governments! and there are more resons for
the high cost.... but that is a political / Governmental issue....!!!

I am very grateful to the pharma industry...... I have Zomig nasal (treptan), lithium, Verapamill
Bon Viva...... and with all that I can, and do, have a very high quality of life......

Micahel

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 10:08am

marijuana is not comparable to alcohol. if your high on pot and you get pulled over by the police theres no test they can give you to find out if your high at that specific time unlike alcohol.

as far as abuse goes you can smoke it and smoke it. its not going to get you any higher unlike oxycontin, percusets, or methadone. all of which are used for recreation. all of which have do far worse damage to the body than marijuana. and as far as i can see marijuana is far less addictive than rx pain killers by a long shot and cheaper for those of us without insurance.

edited to add: marijuana has already been tested. trouble is that people doing the testing are the people that would lose profits if it legalized.

keep in mind this is something that used to grow wild and plentiful in many parts of north america.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by wildhaus on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 2:49pm

I do not say that all the substances you have listed are ok or not….. I don’t know, will have to look it up..... which I will do later.....
All I say is that Canabis is a drug!!! and cannabis has psychoactive and physiological effects when consumed. The minimum amount of THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol the main psychoactive substance found in the Cannabis) required to have a perceptible psychoactive effect is about 10 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. Aside from a subjective change in perception, the most common short-term physical and neurological effects include increased heart rate, lowered blood pressure, impairment of psychomotor coordination, concentration, and short-term episodic and working memory. Long-term effects are less clear.
And with all the attributes listed, cannabis is a drug, and should not be legalized..... unless as I said before..... used as medical substance subject to prescription, and then it will not be inexpensive..... it will be rather expensive.... due to all the reasons that other drugs are expensive...... and I gave a few reasons in my previous post.....

Micahel

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Sandy_C on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 3:03pm

I tried one marijuana cigarette one time in my life. It was supposedly "very good stuff" gotten for me by a Vietnam Vet friend who knew about that stuff. I was 33 years old, married, with two small children at that time. Why? Because I wanted to see what all the hoopla was about. I smoked it and fell asleep. That's all. I mean, WTF was all the hullaballoo about?

I'm all for legalizing pot, but controlled the sale, just like cigarettes and alcohol. Buy it at the grocery store, just like cigarettes and beer, or make it even harder to buy - control the purchase to state run stores just like liquor stores.

The government can tax the heck out of it and make some money that they can then spend on trying to get a grip on the "war on the big drugs" like cocaine, heroin, meth, etc

Right now, people can make their own beer, wine, and even booze for personal consumption, but will get arrested if they try to sell it. Make growing pot with sale and distribution of it a felony with mandatory jail time. You could grow your own, but for personal consumption only.

Pot is like alcohol. In most cases, one drink will not make you drunk, get behind the wheel and kill someone. One joint also, again in most cases, will not cause the driver to be incapacitated. Those that drink too much, or smoke too much will. I agree that there are those who will and do abuse pot, just as there are those that will and do abuse alcohol. Both are hazards on the roads, and cause heartache to their families and to those they harm. Certainly if someone could invent the breathalizer for alcohol, they should be able to invent a roadside test for drugs.

Driving laws as they are now are not stiff enough for drunk drivers. Laws should be strengthened in any case, can be expanded to treat pot abusers the same way they treat drunk drivers.

Given the fact that marijuana has been shown to help alleviate the pain and suffering of some horrible diseases, making those who grow and use their own criminals, I think is a travesty.

Sandy

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Shawn on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 3:24pm

Michael,

You're fears of rampant abuse are unfounded. In countries where pot is legalized (semi-legalized) none of these problems have surfaced. In fact, usage among teens has dropped, not increased.

Alcohol is far more dangerous, addictive, and deadly. It is literally impossible to overdose on marijuana. We see students die every year from alcohol poisoning or drunk driving.

Here in California, we have 'medical' marijauna. The system is a joke as anybody can get a prescription. I haven't heard or seen of any rampant increase in abuse. Some cities are getting $millions in new tax revenue from it.

I have witnessed people in my life be completely destroyed by alcohol and prescription drugs. I have never seen someone whose life was ruined by abusing pot.

I would argue that it has the ability to enhance performance in some areas. I smoked a lot back in the day when I was a computer programmer. I have won several awards based on ideas that only came to me when I was stoned. I have made computers 'do the impossible', and found it greatly enhanced my problem solving ability. I invented products that changed industry. One of my product lines just sold for almost $300M (not to me, sadly)

I would advocate legalization as long as it fell under the same kinds of rules we have for alcohol. Keep it away from kids, restrict where it can be used, tax the hell out of it, and everybody wins. Except the pharmaceuticals...

-Shawn

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Batch on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 5:56pm

Ahh Ha!

Well... If Obamacare gets passed, and smoking MJ is a bad habit, you'll be forced to pay more for your Obamacare health insurance.... Crap! What am I saying.... We'll be paying for your bad habit... Howz that? Screwed up as Hogan's Goat!

BOHICA

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V/R, Batch

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Batch on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 6:15pm

Smoking Pot must be a Senatorial past time... With 5 versions of ObamaCare floating around the Senate... New road signs are already starting to sprout...

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Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Charlie on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 9:18pm

I have some new neighbors down the block and I'm trying to figure out why they have bedspreads over the windows but 8 foot florescent lights running 24 hours a day in a vacant second floor apartment.

Seems interesting to me. I wonder what else may be brewing?

Charlie

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 9:21pm

wildhaus wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 2:49pm:

have you ever tried it?

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 9:32pm

Charlie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 9:18pm:

out where i live its grown in the corn fields. the people that grow it are clean cut hard working farmers. the deputies went to school with the farmers. most of them go to the same church. every year thiers something in the paper about 1000s of pounds confiscated out in the fields. they never mention that they were confiscated after the beds were harvested.

if legalized the # of creepy neighbors with the sheets on the windows would drop. may see an increase in greenhouses though.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 19^th, 2009 at 1:12am

Shawn wrote on Jun 18^th, 2009 at 3:24pm:

I would advocate legalization as long as it fell under the same kinds of rules we have for alcohol. Keep it away from kids, restrict where it can be used, tax the hell out of it, and everybody wins. Except the pharmaceuticals...

-Shawn

LOL, is that your conservative approach?

Those damn liberals got you talkin just like them, Bro.
;)

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Shawn on Jun 19^th, 2009 at 2:08am

Just when you think you have me pigeonholed...

edited to add, I don't think my stand is inconsistent with conservative principles. Conservative != Republican and conservative != religious right.

If I had to put a label on it, I would call myself a constitutionalist conservative.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by wildhaus on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 4:28am

No! I did not use cannabis!!!

I don’t believe that trying and experiencing is the only way to know or learn.....
I rather believe in: “Who is a wise man? He who learns of all men.” (Talmud)
I take the experience of others and try to educate my self..... I have seen
and heard about abuse, or just casual use of cannabis...... and I have made an
educated evaluation..... and formed my believes.....

one can trivialize and belittle the use, and most likely along the way abuse of cannabis, one can try and propitiate, to seek excuses…… it does not validate or facilitate the fact that cannabis is not a drug, that can, and does cause harm…. effects ones judgment, and therefore is a potential risk…. be it on the road, or in other situations that might harm the surroundings……

it was suggested to create stores, such as liquor stores to market cannabis…. do controlled sales at liquor stores prevent alcoholism?…… or drunk driving?…..

It is an illusion to advocate the use of cannabis, stating that marketing cannabis in controlled stores can, and will prevent abuse.....

Cannabis in the USA (as in Switzerland) is very widely used.... the “war” in Mexico proves that cannabis is a “commodity” that is much desired and very demanded.....

We as a society do not need one more legalized substance that brings with it misery
in most cases....
or believe that by legalizing the use and trade of cannabis will reduce the abuse....
or reduce the price....
It will only validate and facilitate the trading of a harmful substance.....

Cannabis for medical use..... yes! as a prescription drug, as any other drug on the market.... but the price will not be cheep... so what did we achieve..... one more medical substance highly priced by the Pharma industry…. high price dictated by over regulation and greed!

Since the late 1960s, consumption of hard and soft drugs is a much discussed topic. The most widespread is the use of cannabis.
In a global comparison, Switzerland is among the countries with the highest cannabis use, together with Britain and the United States.

Approximately one fifth of 15 to 64-year-olds have at least once in their life smoked hemp and about a quarter of whom were regular cannabis users. This corresponds to between 500,000 and 600,000 people annually about one hundred tons of hashish and marijuana use.

The consumption of soft drugs among Swiss youngsters’ 11 to 15 years, however, according to a survey by the Federal Office of Public Health in 2006, after a peak in 2002. The 15-year-old gave 34% of boys and 27% of the girls at least once to have smoked cannabis. Four years earlier, there were still 26% or 37% of the alleged, at least once in their lives, to have smoked cannabis a deference of 1%, but still about
1/3 of the youngsters are familiar with the drug..... and that is worrisome.....

The increased awareness of the authorities working on the long-term consequences of cannabis use, more stringent checks at schools and the closing of many Hanfläden (cannabis shops) helped.......

Michael

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 1:47pm

wildhaus wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 4:28am:

No! I did not use cannabis!!!

I don’t believe that trying and experiencing is the only way to know or learn.....

you portray marijuana to be this horrible evil substance yet you've never tried it or even been around it.

come on Michael live a little. cut the tag off your mattress. drink milk a day after it expired. eat spicy food after 9 pm and then go swimming without waiting 45 minutes :)

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by vietvet2tours on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 1:59pm

-johnny- wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 1:47pm:

wildhaus wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 4:28am:

No! I did not use cannabis!!!

I don’t believe that trying and experiencing is the only way to know or learn.....

;D ;D

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by wildhaus on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 2:33pm

Potter wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 1:59pm:

-johnny- wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 1:47pm:

wildhaus wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 4:28am:

No! I did not use cannabis!!!

I don’t believe that trying and experiencing is the only way to know or learn.....

;D ;D

OK...... I must come across as a very strict and “tight a$$”

yes, I am conservative.... I am not religious, but I do believe
in the right and wrong that the old testament and the wisdom
of the Talmud, Kabala, Zohar, or the Sulhan'aruch,
teach us, that vast wisdom.......

But I do dance out of the chorus very often, at time Marta (my wife) thinks
it is already embarrassing......... and I even teach
my boys to swim against the current.... to step out of the line.......
to live it......

but, point taken..... :)

Micahel

PS
I smoke Winston’s (mostly) and that is killing me..... so
not likely I will start to scent my cigarettes with “fresh herbs”
and kill my self even faster......

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Racer1_NC on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 2:48pm

-johnny- wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 1:47pm:

you portray marijuana to be this horrible evil substance yet you've never tried it or even been around it.

Not taking sides here but there are many things a human can do that I haven't tried. I'm reasonably certain I wouldn't like those things. Reasonably certain is enough for many people. Many times being absolutely certain comes with more baggage than an individual wants to carry.

B

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 2:50pm

lol. thanks Michael. i respect your views. if everybody agreed with me this thread would be pointless. :)

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 3:08pm

Racer1_NC wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 2:48pm:

-johnny- wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 1:47pm:

you portray marijuana to be this horrible evil substance yet you've never tried it or even been around it.

thats a good point but whether you choose to do it or not should be your choice because its your body. the advocates to keep it illegal would lose profits. think about it. why is anheuser busch spending millions of $$$ in advertisements and lobbying to keep it illegal. its hypocritical at best. anheuser busch, dupont, and pharmaceutical companies don't care if you get hooked on pot. there objective is to maximize profits at the expence of our personal freedoms.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 6:14pm

Shawn wrote on Jun 19^th, 2009 at 2:08am:

I dont think so, Bro.
The gist of what I quoted from you is most certainly not constitutionalist or conservative. You say to regulate it, restrict it, tax it. Thats the opposite of constitutionalist and conservative.

While I half-heartedly agree with regulating it and restricting it, such as the FDA or ATF, I firmly disagree with taxing it. The government gets far too much in tax revenue as it is....basically destroying the free market. If they want MORE in taxes, they can fu(k off.

Thats just my opinion, though.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Brew on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 6:38pm

How can you justify taxing tobacco and alcohol but not marijuana?

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 6:57pm

I'm not justifying it. I'm saying the government gets too much damn money all around.
We have too many taxes.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by KJ on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 8:09pm

Yep, you are right B....too much.

But here they are, talking about ways to fund health care.....tax sugary drinks 10%, my beloved beer....more taxes, smokes....more taxes, fatty fast food....look out, it's coming.

Why not legalize this stuff.....(as they have basically done in Cali) and raise money that is otherwise funding criminals? You kill two birds with one stone (so to speak)? :)

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by [joHnny]w_ an_h on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 8:53pm

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 6:57pm:

I'm not justifying it. I'm saying the government gets too much damn money all around.
We have too many taxes.

well one way you could look at it is millions of your tax $$$ would be saved by not incarcerating smugglers, and growers. smuggling would be obsolete. and many people in southern ohio, kentucky, and west virginia who no longer have jobs mining coal or driving coal trucks a\or heavy equipment would have a source of income so less blue coller working families would be on welfare. its a win win for everybody. not to mention all the great things that can be made from hemp. keep in mind thomas jefferson, ben franklin, and george washington all grew hemp and used it wisely way before dupont ever came along.

whether they tax it or not i dont care. pot is as easy to grow as tomatoes. if someone is not ambitious enough to grow it they can pay the tax.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Shawn on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 11:41pm

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 6:14pm:

Depends how you look at it, Bro. In this case, I am talking about regulating it instead of criminalizing it. Certainly, my stance is a step in the direction of both conservative and constitutionalist views. I believe we have a God given right to choose whether or not this is something we want to use. However, I believe we have a moral obligation to protect the general public from irresponsible use, so the restrictions, much like alcohol and tobacco, are appropriate. You seem to have confused me with Libertarian, which I think goes too far. I think the current misguided laws make criminals out of ordinary people, and legalization is something that would save us billions with the court system, jails, enforcement and many other areas where we spend crazy money. The taxes, you pretty much have me there, I hate new taxes. However, we tax alcohol and tobacco, and I'm asserting pot should be in the same category, so taxes seem appropriate. Not only that, since 100% of our legislators are coin operated, this would help legalization get a push.

-Shawn

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Charlie on Jun 21^st, 2009 at 2:33pm

What we do is kill the D.E.A. which is the most useless thing ever created. It's done far more harm to the country as a whole than good, is punative toward many of the wrong people and an incredible drain on the budget.

William F. Buckley wrote in National Review years ago, that dealing with drugs on the supply side just doesn't work.

Charlie

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by B14CK5H33P on Jun 22^nd, 2009 at 5:06am

wildhaus wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 2:33pm:

[quote author=7669657476657432746F757273000 link=1245288986/17#17 date=1245520755][quote author=6E74756E67626E6C6C687272686E6F010 link=1245288986/16#16 date=1245520042][quote author=2F31343C30392D2B580 link=1245288986/15#15 date=1245486505]No! I did not use cannabis!!!

PS
I smoke Winston’s (mostly) and that is killing me..... so
not likely I will start to scent my cigarettes with “fresh herbs”
and kill my self even faster......

As Dr McCoy would say, "GOOD GOD MAN! You're condemning marijuana - which is NOT addictive, and you smoke a drug that is twice as addictive as heroin! You don't have to be Spock to know that it is illogical to condemn what you do not even understand."

No offense, but I think you've watched "Reefer Madness" a few too many times.

I'm alll for legalizing it. After all, I have never smoked a joint, got violent or blacked out, started a fight, wrecked a car, forgot who I was, or HAD TO HAVE IT EVERYDAY! I do think it should be taxed (that would bring in alot of tax revenue), there should be age limit restrictions.

Some people drink beer like there's no tomorrow - yet it is socially acceptable - but is a DRUG never-the-less. The only reason prohibition was lifted was because we were in dire straits and needed the tax revenue. The only reason marijuana was made illegal was people saw "Reefer Madness" and thought it was a true-to-life portrayal of how it affects people. It was a farce, but people bought into it as 'evil' and it became outlawed.

What is it that made you try cigarettes and become addicted to it? To me it seems you fear that if you tried pot, you'd become addicted, become crazed, or something.

Not aiming this at anyone in particular but, if you drink alcohol and yet condemn pot as a drug - you're fooling yourself.

As you said, the Winston's are killing you. Tobacco is one drug that SHOULD be illegal. Why isn't it? Because, once you're hooked, you're HOOKED! Tobacco companies have increased the amount of nicotine gradually over the years to make it almost impossible to quit. That's guaranteed tax revenue at the expense of shortening your life. Big tobacco owns you.
As far as pot goes, I can take it or leave it, and have never, ever EVER had withdrawls, DT's or gone half insane without it. But cigs... If I ran out and couldn't get any for a day or so... I'd be digging through the ashtray looking for a butt big enough to get a puff or two out of to 'get my fix of nicotine' - in true 'Marlboro Madness' style.

I'm with Johnny in that, I do NOT advocate coke, heroin, and am VIOLENTLY OPPOSED to meth, as it has ravaged too many peoples lives. Meth doesn't just kill its users. I've had two friends murdered by meth-heads. One was a good friend who came home and walked in on his home being robbed. They panicked and stabbed him to death!
I had to quit a band because they got ate up in meth so bad that, just last year my old guitarist got so ate up on it that, when he couldn't find any, he began cooking. He is now in prison for the remainder of his days - which saddens me but, had he not got busted, he would be dead soon.

This time last year, a guy named Nicolas Sheely went on a murder rampage that ended 8 peoples lives and what was REALLY scary is, he was caught by the police less than 2 miles from my house!

I'm not saying "Go try some pot", all I am saying is to be open minded. It isn't for everyone, but it isn't this evil drug that people make it out to be.

I'm sorry, but when you mentioned you smoke cigarettes... that struck a nerve. :-/
People should have the right to choose.

Peace, Love and Understanding,
Carl D

"Do yourself a favor and take all your records and CD's and burn them. Because all those musicians who made that music that enriched your lives over the years.... rrrrrrrrrrreal high on drugs! Man, the Beatles were so high they even let Ringo sing a ccouple of times." - Bill Hicks

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by Kevin_M on Jun 22^nd, 2009 at 5:25pm

From some reporting read over a year ago, distribution organization, management, and practice seemed still helter skelter, bit of a dark side.

Title: Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Post by thebbz on Jun 22^nd, 2009 at 11:28pm

Quote:

I believe we have a God given right to choose whether or not this is something we want to use. However, I believe we have a moral obligation to protect the general public from irresponsible use, so the restrictions, much like alcohol and tobacco, are appropriate.

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