well, I *would* write an Ode to Bacon, if it was allowed in my life anymore

Doc called, says (quote) "I'm very, very concerned".

Cholesterol = 385
Triglycerides = 798

I guess changes are in order.  Drat.

Shawn,

I'm one who, untreated, suffers from hypercholestemia. The way my doc describes it, you can only control your serum cholesterol level by 15-20% of its natural level through diet and exercise.

Before meds, my serum cholesterol was around 400. That means I could run 10 miles a day and eat nothing but salad, and you know what my number would be? 320, at best.

Some of us are just genetically predisposed to this, and the the "statin" drugs are very good at controlling them. Last time I had mine screened it was 180 (less than 6 months ago).

No big whoop. Talk to the doc and get on one of the many meds designed to help.

They are putting me on Lipitor and fish oil.  I'll modify my diet a bit, but I'm not going to stress that much. My lipids have been very high for many years, and I've basically ignored it. Still here.

Try the fish oil if you like - I hated it. It's meant to boost your high-density lipoproteins. That's a good thing. But I detested the side-effects which, without getting too detailed, occur in the men's room.

Quote:

without getting too detailed, occur in the men's room

It caused you to wash your hands? :P

Cod liver oil's quite good, the only problem is Greenpeace hanging around complaining about the slick.

Jimi wrote on Jun 30^th, 2009 at 5:00pm:

Quote: without getting too detailed, occur in the men's room It caused you to wash your hands? :P

Yes, that's it. It caused me to wash my hands.

I just took myself off of Lipitor.  My doc doesn't know yet, but at my last appointment with her I told her I was haveing a lot of leg pain and difficulty walking.  She kind of poo-poo-ed it, but after another week of it I just decided I wouldn't take any more.  After a week off of it I am now running stairs two at a time where I had been going up one at a time pulling myself up by the railing.  As you know for the pain to get to the point it is noticeable to us it has to be getting up there!

All I'm saying with this it to watch out for the side effects.  It doesn't affect us all that way, but there is a significant portion of us that have this trouble.

Jerry

Callico wrote on Jun 30^th, 2009 at 7:01pm:

I just took myself off of Lipitor.  My doc doesn't know yet, but at my last appointment with her I told her I was haveing a lot of leg pain and difficulty walking.  She kind of poo-poo-ed it, but after another week of it I just decided I wouldn't take any more.  After a week off of it I am now running stairs two at a time where I had been going up one at a time pulling myself up by the railing.  As you know for the pain to get to the point it is noticeable to us it has to be getting up there! All I'm saying with this it to watch out for the side effects.  It doesn't affect us all that way, but there is a significant portion of us that have this trouble. Jerry

Jerry - please let your doctor know what you've done.  Personal experience in my house - Bill took himself off Lipitor several years ago - thought he didn't need it.  He had a heart attack a few months later and when we told the doctor about him going off the drug - good doctor hit the roof.  Told him if he'd stayed on the meds, he likely would not have had the attack.

Have you tried Crestor?  Bill took Lipitor for many years but his good levels wouldn't come up so his cardiologist switched him to Crestor and he's been fine.  He's on the highest dosage allowable.

Again - please, please, don't stop taking this med without getting some advice from your physician.

Jerry...dang it...I don't need this worry now....

Time after time after time we have ALL heard (and KNOW)...DON'T stops your meds without doc supervision....

Shawn, sorry to hijack your thread...WOW...no bacon for thee...fruits and veggies...PLEASE...Docs these days don't say much...when they do, LISTEN bro'...

And Jerry, I expect to hear...aw shucks...ok...I'll tell her the probs and we will work this out...PLEASE?

Best,

Jon

And oatmeal!   Check this out  - Joe had to lower his levels too - and his hotshot nephew who is a sports fitness or some major like that told him he needs a cup of oatmeal a day. He suggested grinding it in the coffee grinder or food processor, and then dumping into a protein shake.

Joe lowered his numbers in 6 months to normal limits.

QnHeartMM wrote on Jun 30^th, 2009 at 10:39pm:

And oatmeal!   Check this out  - Joe had to lower his levels too - and his hotshot nephew who is a sports fitness or some major like that told him he needs a cup of oatmeal a day. He suggested grinding it in the coffee grinder or food processor, and then dumping into a protein shake. Joe lowered his numbers in 6 months to normal limits.

By what percentage was he able to lower it (if you don't mind me asking)?

I'm always interested to find out if others have been able to blow my doctor's theory out of the water by lowering it more than 20% of it's peak number through diet and exercise alone.

Thanks for the concern.  I tried to get my doc to change me the last two times I went to see her, and she just blew it off.  My dad about lost his legs as a result of Lipitor also, but she wouldn't pay attention, so I just decided to do it.  Now she will HAVE to do something to work with me on it.  I see her next month, so it won't be to long.  I wasn't that high to begin with.

Shawn,  don't let my experience deter you.  I just wanted you to be sure to know about the side effects some of us get.  The docs try to minimize it, cause it is the number one drug sold in the US, but some of us DO have trouble.

Jerry

If your triglycerides are leading the way, your problem is most likely related to the amount of carbs in your diet, or the way your body handles carbs.

My trigylcerides went from the 250-300 range to well below 100 when I cut way back on the carb intake and did a bit of walking.

My former boss injured his neck/back, and instead of surfing, he was hobbling around and started packing on the weight. His triglycerides went over 500. Doctor told him it was 'genetic' and he needed statins.  He took statins for a month, stopped drinking sweet tea and eating rice, and on his six month follow up, his triglycerides and cholesterol were normal. The doctor was amazed to hear that the boss didn't realize that he was supposed to refill the prescription and only took it for a month -  according to the doc, the condition was permanent and he was going to advise statins for the rest of the guy's life! Oops.

With numbers like that, Shawn, you have more to worry about than just a heart attack - you likely have insulin resistance and are headed for diabetes.

Insulin does more than move sugar into a cell - it also tells the liver to produce more cholesterol. When triglycerides are high, so are sugar levels, and the pancreas is generally producing lots of insulin. Cut down on carbs, and the triglycerides almost always drop quickly, and the LDL drops as well, but takes more time.


Quote:

Curr Atheroscler Rep. 2007 Dec;9(6):441-7.    Low-carbohydrate diets, obesity, and metabolic risk factors for cardiovascular disease.    Samaha FF, Foster GD, Makris AP.  University of Pennsylvania Medical Center, Philadelphia VA Medical Center, 3900 Woodland Avenue, 8th Floor Cardiology MC 111C, Philadelphia, PA 19104, USA. Rick.samaha@va.gov    Given the increased prevalence of obesity in the United States (and its associated cardiovascular risk) despite reduced fat intake, there has been increasing interest in the effect of low-carbohydrate diets on obesity. Recent prospective trials have demonstrated equivalent weight loss on low-carbohydrate versus low-fat diets, but with significantly different effects on metabolic risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Low-carbohydrate diets have more favorable effects on metabolic abnormalities found in insulin resistance syndromes, including serum triglyceride levels, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, and small, dense low-density lipoprotein particles. The translation of these different metabolic effects on cardiovascular disease and events requires future studies. These studies should take into consideration that patients with insulin resistance syndromes would be the most likely group to benefit from carbohydrate restriction.

America is eating less fat and more carbs, and obesity and diabetes are getting more and more common.  Hmm.... and no mention of the change in the type of fats we eat - a big increase in n-6 fats from corn and soy, which are inflammatory.  



Brew wrote on Jun 30^th, 2009 at 4:58pm:

Try the fish oil if you like - I hated it. It's meant to boost your high-density lipoproteins. That's a good thing. But I detested the side-effects which, without getting too detailed, occur in the men's room.

Fish oil does not usually affect HDL at all.  It is best at lowering triglycerides, reducing inflammation associated with atherosclerosis, and lowering the risk of arrhythmia problems. We buy plain cod-liver oil by the bottle and take it by the tablespoon (Icelandic tradition) - but my wife only takes it first thing in the morning, right before breakfast. Otherwise she burps it up.  Adding some fiber (pectin or psyllium) will usually keep the fat from being burped up and improve absorption, and those types of fiber can lower LDL as well.  

The two most common treatments for low HDL are niacin and fibrates. Drinking alcohol in moderation usually raises HDL. 1-2 eggs a day will usually raise HDL without having much of an effect on LDL.  Saturated fat also improves HDL, especially in people with insulin resistance who cut back on carbs.  

Also, metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance and low HDL is associated with low magnesium levels - which is pretty typical among clusterheads.  

monty wrote on Jun 30^th, 2009 at 11:06pm:

If your triglycerides are leading the way, your problem is most likely related to the amount of carbs in your diet, or the way your body handles carbs. My trigylcerides went from the 250-300 range to well below 100 when I cut way back on the carb intake and did a bit of walking. My former boss injured his neck/back, and instead of surfing, he was hobbling around and started packing on the weight. His triglycerides went over 500. Doctor told him it was 'genetic' and he needed statins.  He took statins for a month, stopped drinking sweet tea and eating rice, and on his six month follow up, his triglycerides and cholesterol were normal. The doctor was amazed to hear that the boss didn't realize that he was supposed to refill the prescription and only took it for a month -  according to the doc, the condition was permanent and he was going to advise statins for the rest of the guy's life! Oops. With numbers like that, Shawn, you have more to worry about than just a heart attack - you likely have insulin resistance and are headed for diabetes. Insulin does more than move sugar into a cell - it also tells the liver to produce more cholesterol. When triglycerides are high, so are sugar levels, and the pancreas is generally producing lots of insulin. Cut down on carbs, and the triglycerides almost always drop quickly, and the LDL drops as well, but takes more time. Quote: Curr Atheroscler Rep. 2007 Dec;9(6):441-7.    Low-carbohydrate diets, obesity, and metabolic risk factors for cardiovascular disease.    Samaha FF, Foster GD, Makris AP.  University of Pennsylvania Medical Center, Philadelphia VA Medical Center, 3900 Woodland Avenue, 8th Floor Cardiology MC 111C, Philadelphia, PA 19104, USA. Rick.samaha@va.gov    Given the increased prevalence of obesity in the United States (and its associated cardiovascular risk) despite reduced fat intake, there has been increasing interest in the effect of low-carbohydrate diets on obesity. Recent prospective trials have demonstrated equivalent weight loss on low-carbohydrate versus low-fat diets, but with significantly different effects on metabolic risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Low-carbohydrate diets have more favorable effects on metabolic abnormalities found in insulin resistance syndromes, including serum triglyceride levels, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, and small, dense low-density lipoprotein particles. The translation of these different metabolic effects on cardiovascular disease and events requires future studies. These studies should take into consideration that patients with insulin resistance syndromes would be the most likely group to benefit from carbohydrate restriction. America is eating less fat and more carbs, and obesity and diabetes are getting more and more common.  Hmm.... and no mention of the change in the type of fats we eat - a big increase in n-6 fats from corn and soy, which are inflammatory.   Brew wrote on Jun 30th, 2009 at 4:58pm: Try the fish oil if you like - I hated it. It's meant to boost your high-density lipoproteins. That's a good thing. But I detested the side-effects which, without getting too detailed, occur in the men's room. Fish oil does not usually affect HDL at all.  It is best at lowering triglycerides, reducing inflammation associated with atherosclerosis, and lowering the risk of arrhythmia problems. We buy plain cod-liver oil by the bottle and take it by the tablespoon (Icelandic tradition) - but my wife only takes it first thing in the morning, right before breakfast. Otherwise she burps it up.  Adding some fiber (pectin or psyllium) will usually keep the fat from being burped up and improve absorption, and those types of fiber can lower LDL as well.   The two most common treatments for low HDL are niacin and fibrates. 1-2 eggs a day will usually raise cholesterol without having much of an effect on LDL.  Saturated fat also improves HDL, especially in people with insulin resistance who cut back on carbs.   Also, metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance and low HDL is associated with low magnesium levels - which is pretty typical among clusterheads.

So sorry. I'll try to refrain from offering advice anymore. It's tough to be correct when there are so many experts around.

:-X

Don't sweat it, Brew - its just coffee and talk, no big whoop.  And I think you are right to doubt the 20% figure - there are blogs written by cardiologists that I follow, and they claim that 90-95% of people can get their lipids into the ideal range with diet and exercise ... if it is the right diet.  Similar case for high blood pressure - most people with mild or moderate hypertension could lower it dramatically with something like the DASH diet, but the typical response is a prescription.  Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but probably isn't the best.

I take Simvastatin. Frankly, I don't think I need the stuff as my cholesterol is very close to normal, I'm told. The thing I've been reading....my 5th book on our greedy medical profession....is that it's just as likely that improvements are the result of lifestyle when you are prescribed all this crap. Eating boring food because we are scared stiff and running around probably is enough.

I'm not saying to disobey doctor's orders necessarily but I'm impressed by books like "Overtreated." and others. This is my latest thing to rant about.  I can be a real PITA.

Charlie

Brew wrote on Jun 30^th, 2009 at 10:44pm:

QnHeartMM wrote on Jun 30th, 2009 at 10:39pm: And oatmeal!   Check this out  - Joe had to lower his levels too - and his hotshot nephew who is a sports fitness or some major like that told him he needs a cup of oatmeal a day. He suggested grinding it in the coffee grinder or food processor, and then dumping into a protein shake. Joe lowered his numbers in 6 months to normal limits. By what percentage was he able to lower it (if you don't mind me asking)? I'm always interested to find out if others have been able to blow my doctor's theory out of the water by lowering it more than 20% of it's peak number through diet and exercise alone.

I'll check with him, he's still sleeping now, and will check in with you later.

Virtually all medications have some side-effects, some nasty and some just bothersome.  Strangely, it is highly variable for each individual.
Risk-Benefit ratio, consider your results and your goals.
Regardless of what you decide to do about your levels you need to be under the care of a good doc who monitors your liver enzymes.  And yes, if you are going to change or add anything, your Doc needs to know.

For some thoughts:

General discussion on cholesterol meds:
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And on supplements:
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Check out mayoclinic.com , type niacin into the search box and read the 21 articles they have listed.

Good luck.

Doug

I do double red cell blood donations every 4 months, they suck out blood, centrifuge it, and squirt everything back into you except the red! (It's actually pretty cool and you only have to go in half as often!)

They kept sending me links to this "check your wellness profile" so I finally did. My cholesterol levels...

1-2007- 186
5-2007-193
9-2007-203
1-2008-213
5-2008-215
9-2008 239...%$#^% :o...this is when I logged on. Went to doc to get complete work up. Good news was my good cholesterol was high, bad news was so is my bad! Went hard core, dumped red meat, started a daily fish oil capsule, (generic Safeway 1000 mg) and tried a daily flaxseed oil capsule. I didn't tolerate the flaxseed capsule.....talk about frequent bathroom visits!!! ;D ....so I switched to whole flaxseed.(see the shake below!) A bit gentler on the tummy.

I work out 3-4 days a week. On workout days I do the following shake:
8 oz skim milk, 2 scoops whey protein powder, 1 cup uncooked rolled oats ground to flour in a coffee grinder, and 2 tablespoons flax seed ground up in the coffee grinder. Non work out days it's the Cheerios breakfast. I rarely eat red meat anymore....Lord I miss my ribeyes..And I'm pretty hard core fanatic on my daily diet, 10 servings a day of fruits, vegetables and nuts, the results so far:

1-2009- 193
5-2009-186    roughly a 22% drop.

Prior to January of 2007 they didn't record cholesterol on the blood bank web site so I do not know how fast it went up on me. Last time I had it checked was at my 30 year old physical....sigh..., 19 years ago, and it was in the 180's.

This getting old business has not impressed me so far! ;)

Joe

Quote:

This getting old business has not impressed me so far! Joe

Yes dear, but sure as #&$(# beats the alternative.  [smiley=hug.gif]

I can only hope that the trade-off between that diet and pleasure derived from the ribeyes is worth it to you. If it is, go for it.

Some of my life philosophies that come into play here are (not aimed specifically at you, Gooeyseppi):

1. Eat real food, but don't be a fanatic about it.

2. Don't be a fanatic about anything.

3. Don't worry so much about being fat. Fat feels great in bed.

4. Don't allow your diet to be fear-driven. If you're listening to the voice of fear, it drowns out the positive voices you should be listening to, and the voice of fear will put you in an early grave (i.e., it has a real effect on the body).

5. Eat because that's what you like to eat. Period.

I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds and opened myself up to be corrected again. After all, this is just coffee talk.

Trust me Brew, Joey still gets his Rib-Eyes. I think we were just going through a phase earlier where we were getting TOO MANY of them. Everything in moderation is my motto!!! :)

This is all very interesting.  I think I'll have my numbers checked in about 2 months.  I'm curious to see what they'll be!

No problem Brew, it's my OCD mentality! When I take something on, it's initially 110%, then I relax into moderation. My father was skinny in his 30's, obese in his 60's, with all of the accompanying knee, hip and health problems. My goal is to avoid those. Christy keeps me..."moderated!" ;)

Joe

Perfect Brew. Pay attention kids!

Have some pizza, chili or whatever you want now and then. It won't kill you and you don't need to go nuts "making up" for it. You'll live and be happier for it. (don't tell anyone, of course) START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Charlie

Shawn, look at the advertisement pic I just saw on FB

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I am sooooooooooooooooooo SO sorry!!!

Are you *trying* to give me a heart attack?

Of course not!  I just found it ironic, lol

That was Mel when she was a brunette  and MUCH younger.  8-)

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrreeee, and just what do you mean "when" I was a brunette??

QnHeartMM wrote on Jul 1^st, 2009 at 2:22pm:

Everything in moderation is my motto!!! :)

Oh, I buy that one....can't cook a lick but have always been drawn to cooking shows...Julia Childs was always a favorite. The lady was a hoot...and she used to say "all things in moderation...INCLUDING moderation" 8-)

Brew, you a Julia fan?

Best,

Jon

Do what you can for yourself, Shawn.  Jezep shows results are possible.  Take care.   :)

jon019 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2009 at 12:50pm:

Brew, you a Julia fan?

Not particularly, but I am a fan of Dan Akroyd impersonating Julia.

Brew wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2009 at 10:12pm:

jon019 wrote on Jul 2nd, 2009 at 12:50pm: Brew, you a Julia fan? Not particularly, but I am a fan of Dan Akroyd impersonating Julia.

Oh golly, I almost mentioned that...now that there is FUNNY!  Figurin' on firing up the Bass-o-Matic tonight....

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Read some of the reviews...hilarious.

Steve G

Oh bacon, is there anything you cannot do?

Dr. Davis says yes to bacon, no to statins!  

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