New CH.com Forum - Print Page

Good People of Clusterville,

You need to read some of one liner tweets taken from H.R. 3200, the legislation written by the idiot social progressive liberals in the politburo who want to control your health care and lay out how it should be managed by the government... or ACORN and Americorps...

Of particular interest is what's missing from H.R. 3200 like:
- Incentives for more qualified people to enter medical school to address the PCP shortage
- Meaningful Medical Tort Reform
- Best practice Health Care Plans like the Safeway plan
- Fixing Medicare and Medicaid first
- Cutting Medicare and Medicaid Fraud
- Many other great ways of improving...

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefitss u get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose UR HC Benefits 4 you. U have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided 2 ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access 2 individual finances & a National ID Healthcard will b issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access 2 ur banks accts 4 elect. funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan 4 retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange 2 bring priv HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs 4 priv. HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration ur Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic approp svcs. Example - Translation 4 illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps 2 sign up indiv. for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members - U Health care WILL b rationed

PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will b automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monop

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what u can make or earn.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into pub opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Emplyr w payroll 400k & above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesnt prov. pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesnt have acceptable HC accrdng 2 Govt will be taxed 2.5% of inc

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from indiv. taxes. (Americans will pay)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access 2 ALL Americans finan/pers recs

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician svcs 4 Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesnt matter what specialty u have, you'll all be paid the same

PG 253 Li ne 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals 4 what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admiss that results in a readmiss-Govt will penalize u.

Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

p g 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority 2 disqual Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps in2 Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs persons! WTF. My sis has down syndrome!!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Cmtte. Can u say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt pro vides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding u in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program 4 orders 4 end of life. The Govt has a say in how ur life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will b used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may incl an ORDER 4 end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment u will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt in2 ur marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those svcs

Here's the full Health Care bill that sits in the House.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

The way I see it, there is a good use for all the copies of this legislation that will make the tree huggers and green shoots enthusiasts happy... Cut all copies into 4 1/2" X 5 3/4" rectangles and load them in the toilet paper dispensers in all the Senate and House executive wash rooms...

That way even if they can't find the time to read or debate the egregious contents of this legislation, they'll find out first hand, just how slick it really is...

Please call, fax, or email your Congressmen and let them know how you feel about this legislation...

Take Care... And BOHICA!

V/R, Batch

Quote:

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefitss u get

Well, right now, there are committees that decide - and they are appointed by the insurance companies and beholden to them. Having a committee chaired by the Surgeon General, with doctors and health policy experts could be good. Whether we stick with the 'system' we have, or make changes to it, someone or other will be deciding what level of treatment is covered, and what level of coverage is not. Really, there is no escaping that.

Quote:

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

You are a nostalgia-inducing, buddy! You remind me of the Beatles song about the girl with kaleidescope eyes. Leave it to you to turn a whole list of innocent provisions into sinister conspiracies. Here's what it says:

Quote:

(A) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—The cost-sharing incurred under the essential benefits package with respect to an individual (or family) for a year does not exceed the applicable level specified in subparagraph (B).

(B) APPLICABLE LEVEL.—The applicable level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year by the annual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index (United States city average) applicable to such year.

Does this mean that each individual gets rationed to only $5000 in health care a year? Nope. It means that under that plan (which may only apply to some people), the maximum amount of out of pocket costs for an individual per year is $5000 - that is the sum of co-pays, deductibles, etc. People with health insurance today have something like that - might be higher, might be lower, but they already exist.

Quote:

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

No, it says the government will do a study to see what sort of issues and problems might arise with self-insurance. Self-insurance may be a good option for some companies, but if a company says it is going to self-insure its employees and it can't pay the bills, that could be a problem.

Quote:

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose UR HC Benefits 4 you. U have no choice!

It doesn't say that.

Quote:

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided 2 ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Doesn't say that, either. On page 132, it does say that people need to be "lawfully present in a State in the United States" to qualify for assistance in paying for a policy. So illegals will be in the same boat as now - they will end up in the emergency rooms, where other laws say that doctors should treat immediate life threatening conditions even if a person can't produce an ID or an insurance card.

One could go on, point by point, and examine your objections ... but why? You are obviously incapable of reading and understanding such a document, so you rorschach it to fit your political ideology.

Turn your kaleidescope eyes on this image, and tell me what you see, Batch! Does it link the Beast with 7 Heads to a mysterious FEMA plot that will be revealed on Oct 23?? Or is it a nice kitty in a forest of pine trees?

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

Quote:

Turn your kaleidescope eyes on this image, and tell me what you see, Batch! Does it link the Beast with 7 Heads to a mysterious FEMA plot that will be revealed on Oct 23?? Or is it a nice kitty in a forest of pine trees?

Brilliant!

Anybody who thinks that you can provide healthcare to millions of new individuals, but at the same time reduce overall costs, is smoking crack or mentally retarded.

In the real world, 2+2=4.

I just find it entertaining watching people from opposite ends of the spectrum attempt to convince each other that they're wrong. What a futile hoot.

Every kid under eighteen, regardless of their economic spectrum should have free health care. As for the rest, join the Army.

Potter

Quote:

I just find it entertaining watching people from opposite ends of the spectrum attempt to convince each other that they're wrong. What a futile hoot.

I have to agree Brew. It is ridiculous. It's at best masochistic, at worst some lunatic will lock and load on the "debaters" like the Unitarian Church killing a few weeks ago.

Charlie

Potter wrote on Jul 28^th, 2009 at 5:42pm:

Every kid under eighteen, regardless of their economic spectrum should have free health care. As for the rest, join the Army.

Potter

Well, that's good, but what about those that have health problems and cannot join the military?

deltadarlin wrote on Jul 28^th, 2009 at 6:41pm:

Potter wrote on Jul 28^th, 2009 at 5:42pm:

Every kid under eighteen, regardless of their economic spectrum should have free health care. As for the rest, join the Army.

Potter

Well, that's good, but what about those that have health problems and cannot join the military?

They can join the Air Force.
[smiley=smokin.gif]

After living for 56 years, all of my life in this country, I'm truly amazed that people are naive enough to actually believe that we can have "something for nothing." The Democrats are in full control. If they want to pass the bill, they can do so tomorrow.

Does our health care system need a serious overhaul? You bet your ass it does!

I'm unemployed and paying $1125/month for premiums - my savings are gone. Do you think I want change? YES, but the blue sky approach being rushed through has clearly not been thought out.

Let's fix it for good this time, by coming up with a system of solid checks and balances that truly serve our needs and protects the consumer.

Want to provide a bandaid fast? Cool, appropriate some immediate money NOW to do that while we fix the system.

Do anyone really think that the Government can run anything at the lowest possible cost while maintaining quality?

Marc

Quote:

I love the can we afford it spiel by the insurance companies and drug companies...as well as most of the GOP. The level of bullshit is stunning. Doing it their way would indeed make sure health care will be more expensive......a lot more.

The reason the insurance and drug companies are on the surface so warm and fuzzy is the incredible piles of cash to be made if they get their way. Leaving us to the tender mercies of drug and insurance companies? Yikes.

If there is no government option, it will be party time for them. They will be tickled pink to have Washington require people have insurance but have no say about cost. Should that happen, they will be happy to comply. After all, they could charge as much as they want and collect....sure to be inflated... premiums from Washington. How sweet it would be.

The drug companies are sweethearts too. They will "help" to smooth things over for us. The money they promised to get things rolling...chump change to them, will be used to make sure all goes well. What they don't say is that money is tied to their own products.....there will be no generics here. Nice. They will be happy so long as they can sell the most expensive drugs available.

Bend over.

Charlie

Sir Charles,

I made two simple points:

1) Anyone who believes in "something for nothing" isn't facing reality.

2) The Democrats are in full control - they have the horsepower to pass the bill yesterday.

Somehow you perceive this as an evil spiel by the insurance and drug companies and horrendous bullshit from the GOP.

The first is a fairly fundamental concept for most people on this planet.

I don't understand what you see wrong with number 2. Are you saying this is not true?

Marc

I used this place to post some stuff on the general topic. Mostly to make sure I got it down somewhere.

Technically the Democrats can pass the bill but with 1.3 million dollars a day spent by drug and insurance companies to try to water it down, it won't be easy. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

No. it will be expensive but nowhere near as expensive as doing nothing. There's no way around it.

Charlie

Monty,

You had me worried for a bit when you didn’t rise on my post about Government Health Care at the VA were 10,000 Vets have been exposed to Hepatitis B, Hepatits C, and HIV/AIDS during colonoscopy due to improperly sterilized endoscopes since 2003…

The actual figures of viral infections contracted by Vet’s at the VA stand at:
12 cases of hepatitis B
37 cases of Hepatitis C, and
8 cases of HIV/Aids.

Thank you Kevin for pointing out the errors in this post on viral infections at the VA

See: START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

Regarding the present politburo version of affordable health care and its availability to illegal aliens…

“WHAT'S UP WITH THE HISPANIC CAUCUS AND PELOSI?

You know we are in trouble when the supporters of a massive taxpayer health benefit giveaway to illegal aliens say the current House plan is just right. The authoritative ROLL CALL publication says Hispanic Caucus Members told it confidentially that the Caucus told Speaker Pelosi not to change a thing because as written illegal aliens will get the benefits.

CHC Presses Pelosi to Include Illegal Immigrants in Health Bill
-- Headline about CHC (Congressional Hispanic Caucus) by Jennifer Bendery in the Roll Call newspaper (July 24, 2009)

Interestingly, the article also says that CHC Chairwoman Nydia Velázquez (D-N.Y.) said that only "documented immigrants" were discussed.

But the reporter got quite a different story from other CHC Members who talked off the record.

A CHC member, who requested not to be identified, said the group is urging Pelosi to ensure that everyone — including illegal immigrants — will be able to receive services . . . 'We’re pushing to include everyone in the health care bill. Everyone,' said one CHC member.
-- Roll Call

So, what does CHC want Pelosi to add to the House Health Bill to make sure 12-20 million illegal aliens get full taxpayer-paid health coverage?

Nothing.

That is because CHC apparently feels that the House Bill as written pretty well guarantees the coverage. Look:

Asked if CHC leaders will ask Pelosi to specifically spell something out in the bill to address illegal immigrants, the Member said no. Rather, the Member said the CHC simply wants to make sure the bill — as drafted — doesn’t prohibit illegal immigrants from accessing care.”

Charlie, I agree kids should have health insurance, but I’m not all that sanguine about providing free health care to illegal aliens or their 3 million anchor babies when doing so will clearly impact Medicare by diluting a doctor patient ratio that’s already stretched to the breaking point… How about we enforce the existing laws… and save a few billion taxpayer dollars being spent on illegal aliens?

We don’t have enough primary care physicians now and the present legislation does not address this shortage with any incentives… Quite the opposite, it will drive more qualified people from the medical profession… The Marxist trained community organizer’s maligning analogy about physician’s use of red pill – blue pill or pulling tonsils isn’t going to help on that count either.

And Monty, how about your favorite Marxist trained community organizer’s performance last week? He still can’t explain why we need to spend a Trillion dollars to save money to insure well less than 20% of the population…

It was also very telling when the slick façade of professorial and nuanced campaign circumlocution fell away and out jumped 20 years of pent up black liberation theology. Saying the Cambridge Police acted stupidly is hardly presidential… Contrary to what he said during his run for office, it sure looks like he was listening to the right reverend wrong all those years… Yup… That was quite a teachable moment…

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Why do they call this affordable health care when it does noting about the cost of health care?

Shouldn't it be called affordable health insurance? It is, after all, a health insurance bill. Another "private industry" being taken over by the Government.

I liked it better when Dubya just read my e-mail and listened to my phone conversations rather than when Bama took over my life!

Batch wrote on Jul 30^th, 2009 at 6:59am:

57 Vets that actually contracted HIV/AIDS at the VA...
See: START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

I guess that one was too big and too real to dismiss with typical liberal spin…

With notions attempting to avoid spin and just looking in at this link to see what is real, it seems to be presenting:

Quote:

viral infections caused by possibly contaminated equipment.

The current number of positive tests now stands at 57.

It appears eight of 57 had tested positive for HIV.

Marc wrote on Jul 29^th, 2009 at 10:20pm:

I made two simple points:

1) Anyone who believes in "something for nothing" isn't facing reality.

There are people on the street that believe that this involves something for nothing. Others on the street believe this is a government plot to kill old people (possibly in conjunction with an illuminati master plan that involves contaminated vaccines). And some believe in flying teapots. All irrelevant to the real debate.

The question, as I see it, is whether we can have a more efficient system, in terms of getting people insured, providing quality care, and controlling costs. Is that possible? Yes. Is it simple and easy? No. Is there one best way to do it? I don't think so.

Marc wrote on Jul 29^th, 2009 at 10:20pm:

2) The Democrats are in full control - they have the horsepower to pass the bill yesterday.

As Will Rogers once said, I am not a member of an organized political party; I am a Democrat. The Dems are a big-tent coalition, and rarely march in lock-step. There is a Democratic majority, but as to whether there are enough votes to pass something ... not clear yet. Senators and Congressmen answer to their district (voters and contributors) far more than their party.

Marc wrote on Jul 29^th, 2009 at 10:20pm:

Somehow you perceive this as an evil spiel by the insurance and drug companies and horrendous bullshit from the GOP.

There is horrendous bullshit and blatant lying coming from some in the GOP and the insurance industry - which is not to say that all people with reservations about the current proposals are acting for such reasons. Concerns about efficiency of a government program (as you raised) are real. Disagreement about which goals are most important are legitimate - any change will involve compromise.

But the original post that started this thread is laced with obvious distortions and hallucinations designed to create fear. Many prominent Republicans are on record saying that if they can block health care reform, they will score politically in the next elections... they clearly are not looking at it from the perspective of what American people need ... by blocking reform, they can defeat and humiliate Obama ... it will be like "Napoleon at Waterloo." So there is a good reason to suggest that the GOP is involved in craven posturing, and doesn't really care if health costs go up, or people lose coverage.

The insurance companies get 40% of the hundreds of billions of dollars spent on healthcare. They are far less efficient than government systems like Medicare. The insurance companies are willing, able, and busy spreading fear to block any change that affects their bottom line. As to whether that is evil or not is a matter of perspective - some say that they are merely pursuing their own interest. Fair enough. But the interests of the public are often quite different from the interests of the insurance industry.

It's tough being out of the loop. I didn't know that every six months black vans will be showing up at retiree's doors to make sure they have the latest euthanasia information, pass out the latest literature on the Bilderbergers, Illuminati, Club Of Rome and of course the Birthers.

What next? Crop circles are really ads for Target?

I wish I had the bumper sticker concessions.

Oh. I hate to ruin your day Batch but I'm not in favor free health for illegal aliens either.

Charlie

The last numbers I read were 47 million people uninsured, or under insured for health care. Depending on whose numbers you want to choose it would take $12 million to $130 million to give health insurance to all of these people. Since the first Trillion Dollar pork package did pretty much nothing. We could have taken $130 million and bought excellent health insurance for these people from the looks of things. For that matter, we could keep on doing it and be a lot better off than we would with this immense, intrusive proposed health care package. that on the face of it is going to cost us a shit load more than that. And do us more harm socially than any of us really want.
I've only managed to wade through a little over a third of the latest draft of the bill they gave out, and I find there is a lot that I disagree strongly with. A Bill of this sort will not make everyone happy, but the current one is very bad for the common man the way it is currently written. Thats just my opinion though, read it for yourself. Don't let someone else tell you what to think about it.
[smiley=smokin.gif]

Kirk, you big silly. It sounded like you said millions, when obviously you are talking billions.

If there are 47million people without health insurance, and the average health insurance policy costs (just) $225 a month....that's over 10billion dollars.

Per month.

Relax. We all know that bills are written to be picked apart. No one expects it to be approved as it stands. Nothing new.

Charlie

You're right Brian that should be Billions not Millions.

Monty,

Are social progressives trained as a bullfighters? The way you gracefully sidestepped the charging pointy horns sprouted by your favorite Marxist community organizer when he pulled a Doctor Strangelove and threw the race card at the Cambridge Police was most amazing… All I can say is Olé!!!

BTW, I’d like to introduce you to the folks that will be organizing your health care… According to the text of the leading politburo bill as written, these folks are eligible for billions of dollars.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

BTW, the “Affordable” health care plan sponsored by Harry Waxman is being written by staffers supported by a merry band of liberal lobbyists and special interest groups… (The idiot social progressives elected to the politburo are incapable of constructing a single compound sentence correctly let alone read, comprehend, or debate over 1000 pages of a complex rats nest of legislative legal speak… something they freely admit…)

Although they have little medical training, these caring folks will round up any and all potential candidates for the public health care option regardless of citizenship, picket and protest the remaining private health care insurers and providers, and essentially offer to organize cradle to grave hospice service… from Taxpayer funded abortions to end of life counseling with rationed blue and red pills.

I would also like to introduce you to your next primary care physician under the single payer public health plan. As the outcome of the planned Obamacare is expected to decimate the ranks of qualified US citizen applicants to our Nations medical schools, the community organizer in chief has gone to great lengths using his professorial and nuanced organizer speak to recruit cost effective medical care for the party faithful from all available sources.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

I’m told Dr. Harry R Simian, DSM is eminently qualified to provide cost effective medical care through the public single payer option. He was studied at an Ivory Coast medical facility for over 3 years and he interned at the VA cleaning endoscopes as one of the green card immigrants ushered in by the politburo, amnesty international, and sponsored by George Soros…

Despite his burly size, we’re told he has gentle bedside manners. We also hear he has developed some amazingly novel manual procedures for removal of unneeded organs like tonsils and other appendages all without that expensive anesthesia. And you’ll appreciate this… he works for bananas so his capitation fees are very reasonable.

Now let’s address the final points of your last post on this tread… some, I might add, I agree with.

Quote:

horrendous bullshit and blatant lying by GOP…

Response: The GOP has no corner on the market here… BS and prevarication are SOP for the uber liberals… They know if people really knew what they were trying to do they’d be tarred and feathered then run out of town on a rail… Examples?

How about that “Employee Free Choice Act?” It was hardly that… an open ballot that Union thugs could monitor… That would have taken away the right to a secret ballot… Did the liberals call it that…. No way… they had to hide the fact they want unions to take over everything because the unions contribute 99% to the democratic ticket…

And how about the only frank that should be permanently banned… Barney Frank. When asked about the health care vote he replied “we don’t have the votes to pass it this week… but if we can get a health care bill with a public option passed this fall that will be all right because we can easily turn that into a SINGLE PAYER health care system… Read all US health care will be run by the government… a.k.a. Mandatory Universal Health Care… So much for the Marxist trained community organizer’s promise that we can keep our existing health care insurance… Spin Frank’s comments for us…

Talk about creating fear!!!! These idiots have already proven they can’t run a railroad or Metro for that matter. The post office is failing under their auspices. They’re running the big banks and still can’t tell us where the money went… And today they proved they can’t run the auto makers the taxpayers own most of without giving away $3 Billion dollars more of taxpayer money to promote sales… Yup… These are shrewd business people we have in the politburo…

Quote:

Concerns about efficiency of a government program (as you raised) are real. Disagreement about which goals are most important are legitimate - any change will involve compromise.

Response: So true… However, the problem the uber liberals have as I see it is clearly of their one of their own making. The uber liberal leadership and comrades in the politburo have authored three versions of the health care legislation behind closed doors in a vaccum devoid of any bipartisan participation… Republicans have been completely locked out of this process…

The only compromise I’m aware of in the politburo is between Waxman and 4 of the Blue Dog/Lap Dog democrats and that compromise has the far left uber liberals in complete fibulation eating their young and each other calling the compromise unacceptable…

The Senate of the peoples republic has authored 2 two versions, but from available open source information, it appears only the Senate Finance Committee has meaningful bipartisan participation. Max Baccus, Senate Finance Committee Chairperson, threw in the towel today saying his panel won’t be able to pass health-care legislation next week, dealing yet another setback to the Marxist trained community organizer… Last time I checked the clown from Minnesota gave the liberals a 60 vote filibuster proof majority… so what’s the problem?

Quote:

Many prominent Republicans are on record saying that if they can block health care reform, they will score politically in the next elections...

Response: Another example of politics practiced with equal egregiousness by both parties… Although I think the Republicans were safe saying that shortly after the porkulus debacle…

Are you trying to tell me that liberals never take part in blocking tactics for political gain? They kept up their craven mantra “Bush lied – People Died” for 7 years referring to Iraq being lost and GITMO’s gotta go. Hmmm… Last time I checked we’re still in Iraq and GITMO is still in operation….

Meanwhile the liberals quietly cheered and boasted about the success of their holiest legislation that results in over a million abortions a year… Over 50 million abortions sine Roe vs Wade passed in ’73.

Quote:

… they clearly are not looking at it from the perspective of what American people need

Response: Need? Are you talking real requirements validated with bipartisan agreements? That would be novel…

I’m sure you don’t think small business already stressed by a tanking economy, horrendous unemployment and a lack of lending need to be driven out of business by draconian laws that fine them for the egregious transgressions of rogue liberal Congress intent on nationalizing every major component of our economy…

The cash for clunkers is yet another example of short sighted extravagance at taxpayer expense… $1 Billion in 4 days… Well… there is a Free lunch for a few folks thanks to the generosity of uber liberals and the Marxist trained community organizer intent on redistribution of wealth at the taxpayer’s expense…

True there was bipartisan support for this bill, but a federal tax deduction of $4,500 for new car purchases would have cost a heck of a lot less. Now the politburo has just reprogrammed $2 Billion of the “Pork” already aporkreated and stashed away in the Porkuls legislation… All this to keep the cash for clunkers program afloat for another week… at the most. How many more problems will this spawn???

The Marxist trained community organize was so beside his self that a piece of legislation actually worked… it didn’t… that he called a news conference to bend the truth a bit and spin a gross miscalculation into a success… then said cash for clunkers was part of the porkulus legislation… It wasn’t. Want to bet the uber liberals will try to make the cash for clunkers a permanent program??? YGBSM!

Quote:

So there is a good reason to suggest that the GOP is involved in craven posturing, and doesn't really care if health costs go up, or people lose coverage

Response: And you’re going to stand there with a straight face and tell us the liberals really care about people and that they never get involved in craven posturing?

How about that Dianne Feinstein… She’s provided a clear example of caring liberal democracy at work. 7 senior citizen constituents ages 55 to 87 show up at her West Los Angeles office, demanding a chat with the Senator, who promptly called the police to remove the “senior agitators.” And Congress hasn’t even started the August recess… It’s going to be long hot August for the libs…

All the liberals really care about is staying in power and they’ll do anything they can to buy votes pandering at taxpayer’s expense

The GOP is looking at the bang for the buck bottom line in the present health care legislation and finds it sadly lacking… They have also offered alternative health care legislation but princes Pelosi of the politburo and prince Dirty Harry of the peoples Senate will not let the alternatives come to the floor for even a committee assignment...

Now for your final point…

Quote:

The insurance companies get 40% of the hundreds of billions of dollars spent on healthcare. They are far less efficient than government systems like Medicare.

Response: That private medical insurance companies are far less efficient than government systems like Medicare is very debatable. What say we pick a few measures of merit on which we can agree and do a side-by-side comparison…

FY 2008 Budget request included about $325 billion in total gross mandatory spending for our Medicare program benefits. The estimate at that time was 44.8 million Americans would be enrolled in the Medicare program in 2008. That works out to a cost $7,287 per year per senior citizen on Medicare…

If we want to talk efficiency, we need to find out how much was actually paid out to how many Medicare beneficiaries. The following site has a lot of stats… START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Batch wrote on Jul 31^st, 2009 at 5:21pm:

I would also like to introduce you to your next primary care physician under the single payer public health plan. As the outcome of the planned Obamacare is expected to decimate the ranks of qualified US citizen applicants to our Nations medical schools, the community organizer in chief has gone to great lengths using his professorial and nuanced organizer speak to recruit cost effective medical care for the party faithful from all available sources.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

My theory is that about half of people who are racist really believe that they are not racist, while most of the remainder know they are racist, but pretend not to be. What do you think??

Quote:

Justin Barrett, the Boston police officer who sent a fiery email to a Boston Globe journalist comparing Henry Louis Gates Jr. to a "banana-eating jungle monkey," appeared on Larry King Live Thursday night.

Appearing distraught, Barrett attempted to explain his actions and salvage his reputation, stating:

"I would like to take this opportunity to offer fellow police officers, soldiers and citizens my sincerest apology over the controversial e-mail I authored," Barrett said on CNN. "I am not a racist. I did not intend any racial bigotry, harm or prejudice in my words. I sincerely apologize that these words have been received as such. I truly apologize to all."

Quote:

My theory is that about half of people who are racist really believe that they are not racist, while most of the remainder know they are racist, but pretend not to be. What do you think??

Monty, I personally agree wholeheartedly....

Unfortunately, it's alive and Festering in Western society in many forms and in countless mediums...

Lefty...!

Quote:

Blue Dog/Lap Dog democrats

Love that one Batch. ;D

Quote:

I would also like to introduce you to your next primary care physician under the single payer public health plan

So you really do believe in evolution. Glad to hear it.

Quote:

My theory is that about half of people who are racist really believe that they are not racist, while most of the remainder know they are racist, but pretend not to be. What do you think??

Is it possible that all those "birthers"....mostly southern far right "conservatives" don't see it? It's stunning just how far a party will go to destroy any chance of broadening its base.

Charlie

Despite who you addressed, it was my post that mended your number from the link. You acknowledge talking of the numbers from that post with:

Quote:

ONE TOO MANY!

further responding about it with:

Quote:

you’ve let ideology override common sense

Quote:

you’ve used a social progressive spin tactic to marginalize a tragic situation.

Please show reference for this.

New CH.com Forum
http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Daily Chat >> General Posts >> Affordable Health Care Bill - Read em and weep http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1248805228 Message started by Batch on Jul 28^th, 2009 at 2:20pm