Some car shoppers find that the fuel economy for their old cars has suddenly improved - making them ineligible for Cash for Clunkers.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Some car shoppers are finding that their trade-in vehicles, which qualified for a Cash for Clunkers rebate last week, don't this week because of changes in the EPA's fuel economy ratings.

What a slick deal...  That hopey changey guy is so clever...

Take care...  and BOHICA...  There's so much more to follow from this clever fellow.

V/R, Batch

Right.

The last time I heard it had to be less than 18 mpg or so. Other stuff too.

Charlie

So if I got the cash last week, do I have to give it back this week?

Yes.  You know my address.

Now we have this: START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

They are suspending the program because people are using it.  :-/

Wow! Did the Government woefully underestimate the potential costs?

What do you know?

We don't do such things with our planned budget allocations. If we did we would be in big trouble and would have to make some hard decisions to make sure we realign our expenditures with our income. To do otherwise would be acting stupidly.

But then again, we are unable to simply stupidly borrow more and get deeper into debt. Nor can we, by law, render more money from our fellow citizens to make up the difference. We wouldn't do that anyway because that would be irresponsible and stupid.

Getting deeper into debt would be acting stupidly. Unless you're not worried about it...which is stupid.

Steve G

stevegeebe wrote on Jul 30^th, 2009 at 9:04pm:

Wow! Did the Government woefully underestimate the potential costs? What do you know? We don't do such things with our planned budget allocations. If we did we would be in big trouble and would have to make some hard decisions to make sure we realign our expenditures with our income. To do otherwise would be acting stupidly. But then again, we are unable to simply stupidly borrow more and get deeper into debt. Nor can we, by law, render more money from our fellow citizens to make up the difference. We wouldn't do that anyway because that would be irresponsible and stupid. Getting deeper into debt would be acting stupidly. Unless you're not worried about it...which is stupid. Steve G

Amen, brutha!

omg Steve, LMAO!! ;D

It's possible suspending the program could to be due to the high backlog, to see how much of the billion is actually left by now.  




Quote:

A survey of 2,000 dealers by the National Automobile Dealers Association found about 25,000 deals had not yet approved by NHTSA, or nearly 13 trades per store. It raised concerns that with about 23,000 dealers taking part in the program, auto dealers may already have surpassed the 250,000 vehicle sales funded by the $1 billion program. "There's a significant backlog of 'cash for clunkers' deals that make us question how much funding is still available in the program," said Bailey Wood, a spokesman for the dealers association. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

The changes disqualified some and included others.


Quote:

About half the 100 suddenly did not qualify because their combined mileage rating was revised upward; others unexpectedly got in. "As a result of the review, roughly an equal number of vehicles became eligible as those found to be not eligible," said the EPA in a statement. "Eligibility for about 100 vehicles was affected." START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Although the Detroit News reports 69 purchases had been approved before the program's official start on Monday, because technically dealer registration began Friday.  The changes reportedly resulted prior to the official start.


Quote:

The Environmental Protection Agency says the changes resulted from a double-check of its fuel-efficiency ratings on more than 30,000 1984 and newer vehicles in advance of the official start of the clunkers program Monday. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Quote:

The program, formally known as the Car Allowance Rebate System, was scheduled to be offered until Nov. 1, or as long as the money was available. But the program was so successful that it has exhausted all the money allocated within the first week. The dealers’ association had been warning that the money would go quickly.

Quote:

“It’s been at least two years since inventory has moved the way it’s been moving since Friday,” when the program kicked in, said George “Deuce” Waikem, the CARS guru for Waikem Ford and Nissan. “We have had people on the lot looking, but no one jumped. Now people are jumping.” ... Black said he’s seeing a side benefit at Downtown Motors.  “Our used-car sales are excellent,” even though only new cars are qualified for the discount. The CARS program has “generated a lot of traffic,” he said. “We’re going to be over 200 cars (sold) for the month.

Ta-da.  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

Where is the rebate money comming from?

Will it be taxed as income for those who participated?

Seems to me like the Government wanted to move some of its inventory.  

Root

Both Republicans and Democrats are now saying just how much they like this thing and are trying to rush through more cash.

Charlie

First the Gov. gives the auto companies bailout $$$$.  Then it gives people $$$$ to buy cars from the bailed out companies.

Doesn't sound like a viable industry to me.

I'm just glad that in these tough times we were able to have the EPA spend money to recalculate the gas mileage of 15 year old cars.  How many millions of dollars do you think they spent just to recalculate some meaningless, trivial, useless information?  

Must be nice to be livin' so high on the hog.

  Beats me Brian. I can't even keep Millions, Billions and Trillions straight with these guys anymore. Its all become a blure.

last year at this time i could haul in a car too the scrap yard and get 3 or $400 out of it . now its back to normal. i really don't see the benefits of owning a brand new car. its not like fuel mileage has improved much. seems to me that this program drives home the fact that manufacturers dont have to design anything that lasts longer than 5 or 10 years. has anybody seen a k car on the road much these days?

Charlie wrote on Jul 31^st, 2009 at 8:33pm:

Both Republicans and Democrats are now saying just how much they like this thing and are trying to rush through more cash. Charlie

Meaning what?

That they're all idiots. And we elect them.

Quote:

That they're all idiots. And we elect them.

Geeze Brew. It's only a billion or two.

Like Everitt Dirkson once said: "A billion here, a billion there....soon you'll be talking about real money."

Charlie

Quote:

Asked point blank whether it was right to suggest it is a matter of when, not if, taxes will be raised, Geithner responded, "It is absolutely right."

Wait for it ......

Posted by: Bob P      Posted on: Today at 6:55am

Quote:
Asked point blank whether it was right to suggest it is a matter of when, not if, taxes will be raised, Geithner responded, "It is absolutely right."


Wait for it ......

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obama officials: Taxes may rise to pay health care

By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer Philip Elliott, Associated Press Writer   – 32 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Two of President Barack Obama's economic heavyweights said middle-class taxes might have to go up to pare budget deficits or to pay for the proposed overhaul of the nation's health care system.

Geithner and Summers both sidestepped questions on Obama's intentions about taxes. Geithner said the White House was not ready to rule out a tax hike to reduce the federal deficit; Summers said Obama's proposed health care overhaul needs funding from somewhere.

"There is a lot that can happen over time," Summers said, adding that the administration believes "it is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out, no matter what."

During his presidential campaign, Obama repeatedly pledged "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime." But the simple reality remains that his ambitious overhaul of how Americans receive health care — promised without increasing the federal deficit — must be paid for.

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------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Obameter: Tracking Obama's Campaign Promises

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House adds cash to 'clunkers' program; Senate vote needed
Updated 15h 20m ago
By James R. Healey and Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY

The Obama administration promised Friday that the financially strapped "cash for clunkers" program would be alive at least through the weekend, and the House of Representatives approved additional money for the program later in the day.

Senate action is expected next week.

"If you were planning on going to buy a car this weekend, using this program, this program continues to run," White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters.

The House passed a bill 316-109 that would pour $2 billion from the economic stimulus program into the "cash-for-clunkers" initiative and give consumers more time to take advantage of trade-in rebates up to $4,500 for older cars.

[Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mich.]
"The thing has exploded. It has exceeded everyone's expectations," said Miller, who was involved in writing the original legislation, known as CARS, for Car Allowance Rebate System. "Throughout our history, it has been auto sales that have pulled us out of recession. People are more likely to buy cars than houses. Not to be too Pollyannaish, but we're gettin' our mojo back. This could be the pivot' that begins an economic recovery."


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Shocking News: People Take Free Money!
July 30, 2009 8:17 PM by Stephen W. Carson

After barely a week in full-tilt operation the "Cash for Clunkers" program has been suspended. As recently taken apart in a Mises Daily, this program is a particularly absurd example of the broken-window fallacy. But the suspension of the program has brought even more economic absurdity.

Rep. Candice Miller breathlessly tells us "The thing has exploded. It has exceeded everyone's expectations." Before we go on let's just pause and reflect on these people who were surprised. Here is the amazing turn of events:

  1. The government starts handing out free money.
  2. People start grabbing it as fast as they can.
  3. The bureaucrats quickly realize that they are hitting the program's budget in mere days (of the program being finalized) and suspend the program.

What is the reaction to this perfectly foreseeable sequence of events? "...dealers were amazed...", "the explosively popular... program."

As if the program itself and the surprise at its reception weren't enough, there is one more bit of economic foolishness dolloped on like a cherry on top. Returning to the brilliant Rep. Miller (representative from Michigan and co-architect of the glorious program) she is enthused at the results: "'Throughout our history, it has been auto sales that have pulled us out of recession. People are more likely to buy cars than houses. Not to be too Pollyannaish, but we're gettin' our mojo back. This could be the pivot' that begins an economic recovery."

How do you get an economic recovery going? Start raining free money down on everyone's heads. I grew up thinking that the people from the Middle Ages were idiots... They believed the earth was flat! Turns out they didn't actually. But Rep. Miller (and how many Americans?) really does believe this nonsense. I have found the Dark Ages and it is us.

[A few comments]
Mikey L.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, a United States congresswoman actually used the word "Pollyanaish" in support of a federal law.

Published: July 30, 2009 10:43 PM


Enjoy Every Sandwich
It's a shame we can't cash in the clunkers who "represent" us. I'm certainly ready for some better models.

Published: July 31, 2009 8:06 AM


Matt Wing
Mikey L wrote: "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, a United States congresswoman actually used the word "Pollyanaish" in support of a federal law."

That is funny.

I also like how she used the term "mojo", as in, economic growth is a "mojo".

So, to your point Russ, who cares about creating wealth when you're "getting your mojo back"?

If I was a reporter and a politician said that, naturally my next question would be: "What are you talking about?"

Published: July 31, 2009 9:01 AM


Ned Netterville
It is OPM (other people's money), and like the other opium, extremely addictive. Generally OPM is sucked, rather than inhaled, imbibed or injected. When someone uses it without being shot or seriously injured by the owner, they are certain to become hooked. Inevitably, they will return to their pusher for another fix. OPM addiction has much the same pathology as other addictive diseases such as alcoholism, compulsive gambling, etc. As the disease progresses, which it always does, its victims loose touch with reality, their physical and mentally health deteriorates and they completely lose their moral compass. The most successful route to recovery is participation in the 12-step program of AT (Anonymous Thieves). A nationwide network of treatment centers would be a blessing.

Published: July 31, 2009 9:15 AM


Russ
Matt Wing wrote:

"So, to your point Russ, who cares about creating wealth when you're "getting your mojo back"?"

Heh. Here is an internet dictionary definition of mojo:

1) A magic charm or spell.

2) An amulet, often a small flannel bag containing one or more magic items, worn by adherents of hoodoo or voodoo.

I guess this means that we are truly in the age of "voodoo economics" now!

Published: July 31, 2009 9:21 AM


   [smiley=deal2.gif]

It seems to be a difficult concept for people to understand these days, but there are only two ways to go:

1) Reduce spending
or
2) increase taxes

Hmmm, I wonder which way he will go.

And it seems as though either way is going to incite a civil war.

Or......do it the George Bush and Republican way: Hugh tax cuts for the rich and then......start a war that has been running for six years. How was this done you say? Easy...again do it the George Bush way and keep it out of the budget.

When you fight a war, you're supposed to get the country behind you...they would have been but Bush told us to relax and that everything would be just Jim Dandy. Here we thought that war would require some sacrifice at home.

Easy as pie when you deny reality. It's the Republicans that put us back in defict spending. They have done more than their part in mortgaging out the country to our grandchildren. When Democrats try it, their ideas might help keep the kids healthy when the bills come due. The Republicans are are supposed to be the guardians of fiscal restraint. They have no shame. What Unbelievable hypocracy.....

Charlie

so do they base fuel mileage on an average for that particular car or is it actual? if i had a really sick '87 grand am that got 28 mpg new and now it gets say 16 mph would that qualify as a "clunker"? what if the car didn't run at all and it got 0 mpg? wouldn't that qualify? it is under spec

It's the EPA rating for the vehicle when new......not what it gets now.

Hey Charlie, it only took Obama 6 months to quadruple Bush's budget deficit.  Guess that makes him 4 times worse than Bush in only 1/16th the time it took Dubya!

Quote:

"Few of President Obama's 2008 campaign pledges were more definitive than his vow that anyone making less than $250,000 a year 'will not see their taxes increase by a single dime' if he was elected. And he was right, very strictly speaking: It's going to be many, many, many billions of dimes. Asked about raising taxes on the middle class on Sunday on CBS's 'Face the Nation,' White House economist Larry Summers wouldn't repeat Mr. Obama's pre-election promise. 'It is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out no matter what,' Mr. Summers said -- except, apparently, when his boss is running for office. Meanwhile, on ABC's 'This Week,' Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner also slid around Mr. Obama's vow and said, 'We have to bring these deficits down very dramatically. And that's going to require some very hard choices.' These aren't even nondenial denials. The Obama advisers are laying the groundwork for taxing the middle class while claiming the deficit made them do it. ... In an editorial on February 26, 'The 2% Illusion,' we wrote that the feds could take 100% of the taxable income of everyone in America earning more than $500,000 and still have raised only $1.3 trillion even in the boom year of 2006. The rich are fewer and less rich now, while the Obama budget is nearly $4 trillion. Democrats already plan to repeal the Bush tax cuts, but that won't raise enough money. So they're proposing an income tax surcharge on 'the wealthy,' but that won't raise enough either. Democrats have no choice but to soak the middle class because only they have enough money to finance the liberal dream of yoking the middle class to cradle-to-grave government entitlements." --The Wall Street Journal