Hey there,

I just started a really terrible cycle of CH after a few years pain free. Had a 9kip or so the other day. Shook my world pretty bad.  Most of the others are 7's. I was referred to an acupuncturist by a coworker, whom I visited today (START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE). The woman had lots of experience with migraines, but had never worked with a cluster headache sufferer (there aren't many of us). After narrowing down the painful points, she threw in a few needles, and then let me hang out for a bit and relax. While she was gone, she did a quick bit of research to see what is best for clusters in eastern medicine.

She prescribed me:

-Vitamin D supplements (says cluster headaches could be due to vitamin D deficiency)
-Melatonin Spray (as a preventative, to use before bed)
-Plasque Flower (a vasodilator, gets the blood moving, says may prove to be a good abortive tool. Haven't tried it yet.)

She is also putting together a formula of chinese herbs for me to order.

Since the acupuncture treatment a few hours ago, my shadow has diminished significantly. Looking forward to seeing how this might help. Glad to find a better treatment than being cracked out on coffee all day.

Has anyone here ever tried acupuncture/eastern medicine here? I looked through the threads real quick and didn't see anything. I'll keep you posted how it works out.

-Nick      

What a crock of shit,  Start by reading all you can on this site.  Bob will be along shortly.  He will have all the info you need.

        potter

NickO wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 8:12pm:

-Plasque Flower (a vasodilator, gets the blood moving, says may prove to be a good abortive tool. Haven't tried it yet.)

Isn't a vasodilator the LAST THING we need?? :-/

Nick,

As the "Kinder Gentler" Potter tried to say:

"It's interesting to hear of your positive experience. By far, most of us have gad zero luck trying the same thing."

I'm sure he will be back to tell me how he feels about my interpretive work  :)

Give it some more time, Nick and see if continues to work for you. Soooooo many people come here with the latest remedy, only to return with "Never mind......"

Keep us posted!

Marc

Quote:

What a crock of shit,

I'm trying to think of a better way of putting it but I dont think there is one.

Lawrence wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 8:43pm:

NickO wrote on Sep 4th, 2009 at 8:12pm: -Plasque Flower (a vasodilator, gets the blood moving, says may prove to be a good abortive tool. Haven't tried it yet.)  Isn't a vasodilator the LAST THING we need?? :-/

Verapamil is a vasodilator. It's a major preventative... If you go by this, Verapamil should make us worse automatically.

So, just because it's a vasodilator does not mean it won't work.

And there have been some sufferers in the medication's section who recieved some relief from Vitamin D.

Plenty of us have seemed to have results from Melatonin. This therapy may work, or, it may not. No telling until he tries it. I myself wouldn't have the guts to try Plasque as an abortive, though. Preventative, yes.... I'd fear it making it worse as an abortive though.

Maybe Monty has some info on this specific herb?

PFDAN
Mystina

Pixie-elf wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 10:01pm:

Preventative, yes.... I'd fear it making it worse as an abortive though. PFDAN Mystina

It would seem...

Mystina,

Verapamil is specifically not a vaso-dilator.

In a nutshell, as a calcium channel blocker it serves the function of "relaxing" arteries (other smooth/striated muscle tissue to varying degrees also) so they tend not to be spastic and dilate or contract quickly or intensely.

That's how it functions as a BP med, or for use in controlling some forms of arrhythmia. It slows the expansion/contraction process. (Hence the reports of erectile and constipation problems reported here)

With all of that, I will say that I personally feel that we will eventually learn that Verapamil has a particular, yet unknown action on some other parts of our system – the hypothalamus.

However, I’m part of the minority (along with some guy named Peter Goadsby) who feels that CH’s are not primarily from over extended arteries……

Marc

Pixie-elf wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 10:01pm:

Verapamil is a vasodilator.

It is NOT a vasodilator!!!

Verapamil does relax the smooth muscles by making them respond only sluggishly to nerve signals.

For a clusterhead it slows down the otherwise fast expansion of some arteries in the head, by slowing down the longitudinal muscles.

If high blood pressure is caused by over-constricted arteries, relaxing the circular muscles around them brings the desired result.

If it must be, you could call verap a vasoconstrictor in the first case and a dilator in the second one. But best, call it what it is: a Ca-channel blocker.


                 [smiley=smokin.gif]

Hey Nicko, welcome to the board. I'm crossing my fingers and honestly hoping the best for you....but fearing the worst. Do keep us updated on your progress....who'd have ever thunk lithium, oxygen, energy drinks, etc....would prove as useful as they have for many. Do spend some time educating yourself on other treatments as stuff that works often just stops working....seemingly without rhyme or reason. Always smart to have more arrows in your quiver just in case!

Wishing you a lifetime of remission.... ;)

Joe

Marc wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 10:35pm:

Mystina, Verapamil is specifically not a vaso-dilator. In a nutshell, as a calcium channel blocker it serves the function of "relaxing" arteries (other smooth/striated muscle tissue to varying degrees also) so they tend not to be spastic and dilate or contract quickly or intensely. That's how it functions as a BP med, or for use in controlling some forms of arrhythmia. It slows the expansion/contraction process. (Hence the reports of erectile and constipation problems reported here) With all of that, I will say that I personally feel that we will eventually learn that Verapamil has a particular, yet unknown action on some other parts of our system – the hypothalamus. However, I’m part of the minority (along with some guy named Peter Goadsby) who feels that CH’s are not primarily from over extended arteries…… Marc

Ah, I didn't mean it was specifically one, but that it has that effect. Most calcium channel blockers do. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE Mentions some about it's action as one.

If our problem were simply "Vasodialators are bad and vasoconstrictors are good" they'd probably already have a cure by now.

Nope.

Marc-I love your posts.   :)

Quote:

Vitamin D supplements (says cluster headaches could be due to vitamin D deficiency)

That is a hope for some of us(including me) who suggest that we MIGHT have been helped from vitamin D.
But it's one thing for clusterheads to hypothesize for such things and completely different for others who are not affected by ch to presume such thing.

Could you please ask him where did he get this information from?
And if you follow this route and wish,please update here if it has any good results.
i am really interested in this :)

As for the accupuncture sorry but i tried it two times,
each time included 15 sessions and it proved to be a waste of time,hope and money.

pf wishes :)

There are quite a few different pasque flowers - traditional uses for some include treating spasms, neuralgia and headache. Some are being investigated for treating alzheimers and their neuroprotective effect.   One study showed that a variety inhibited nitric oxide production, which indicates possible relevant activity, though that is hypothetical. 

Some can be rather toxic. It seems that many pasque flower preparations in common use are homeopathic, suggesting very low or zero dose. Homeopathic preparations are unlikely to be toxic, but not likely to be effective.

Although I have not ( crossing my fingers and everything else cross-able) had a cycle yet this year  ( feel like I am jinxing myself typing this), I asked my chiroprator if she has any experience treating them. She said there was some literature suggesting it may help, so if need be I would certainly try it. I would love to find a less pharmaceutically based treatment plan. In the meantime, thank God for prescription drugs.

Good luck!

I go to a chiropractor regularly.  It certainly doesn't stop the Ha's, but my muscles are so tight that they pull everything out of whack.  It helps more to go to a masseuse.  I did both until my masseuse died and I just haven't replaced her.  I went to her for 15 years.  I don't know that I got less HA's, but it sure helps with the tight knotty muscles in my upper back and neck!!!  I also get a facial nerve thing going on sometimes with my headaches and it stops that.  I wish I could tell you that it stopped my headaches.

Joni   :)

Acupuncture helped me end a cycle a little earlier than it would normally ended when I was a lot younger (19).  It stopped the very next day after first the acupuncture session.  Another time it was not effective (but only went once didn't have more money).  The acupuncturist said that acupuncture tends to work MUCH more quickly on young people and sometimes can get very quick results that would require months of acupuncture on older people (at the time I was a teenager).
It's not a miracle cure.  But it's not going to do any harm either.  Acupuncture itself is very relaxing and leads me to sleep very deeply the night after I get it done.  So, just wanted to say--acupuncture is not going to hurt any and may help.

Guess I'm the exception on accupuncture -- it triggered my CH. It felt great when I had it done, but an hour later I got hit with a BIG Kip and after about 5 or 6 of these (same pattern) I decided that I could do without that.... (thought I'd given it a shot long enough).

But the one thing to remember around here -- WHAT WORKS FOR ONE DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK FOR THE NEXT ONE! We all have to do what works for us.

About 70% of us get relief from O2 and swear by it. Me, I take Calicum citrate, magneism, and zinc several times a day (Pete told me to do that). It seems to be helping me. And I take melatonin at night before bedtime. Sleep like a baby most nights and don't get night hits (been doing this for years - works for me).

But I ALSO take topamax each night as a preventative (have for 10 years - I'm chronic).

What I'm getting at - each one of us has to find our magic bullet and what works for US. There's a LOT to read on this board - what works and what hasn't worked for us. I'd suggest you READ READ READ. Then it's a trial and error thing. O2 seems to be the one thing MOST of us agree on that works.

Hugs BD :-*