Here are my answers to the questionnaire:


#1) Do your headaches normally last LESS THAN 15 minutes?
Yes No

#2) Do your headaches normally last MORE THAN 4 hours?
Yes No

#3) Do your headaches normally switch sides from day to day or during a headache?
Yes No

#4) When you have a headache, do you normally seek a quiet, dark place?
Yes No

#5) When you have a headache, do you normally want to be around other people?
Yes No

#6) When you have a headache, can you normally lay down and be motionless?
Yes No

#7) When you have a headache, can you normally go to sleep to make it go away?
Yes No

#8) When you have a headache, do you normally experience nausea?
Yes No

#9) Are your headaches always on the same side of your head?
Yes No

#10) Do your headaches normally wake you up from a sound sleep?
Yes No

#11) Do your headaches normally occur at the same time of the year and same times each day?
Yes No

#12) Do you normally experience a stuffy nostril on the same side of the face as the pain?
Yes No

#13) Do you normally experience a "droopy" eyelid on the same side of the face as the pain?
Yes No

#14) Do you normally go from totally pain free to totally debilitated in 5-10 minutes?
Yes No

#15) Do you normally go from totally debilitated to totally pain free in 5-10 minutes?
Yes No

#16) When you have a headache, do you walk, pace, bash your head, thrash, scream?
Yes No


The onset of the headache for me takes about an hour, and takes about an hour to subside, but mine is actually treatable using Tylenol.  Please let me know what I have.  Thanks!

ajy wrote on Sep 8^th, 2009 at 3:27pm:

Please let me know what I have.  Thanks!

Well--that might be a little tough for anyone to answer, since you seem to have answered all the questions both "yes and no".   ;)

The quiz is just an indicator, to give you some notion whether or not you MAY have CH.  It's not a diagnostic tool. 

You really need to get a definitive diagnosis from a physician.  We don't do diagnosis here. 

Best wishes,

George

(edited for spelling.)

ajy wrote on Sep 8^th, 2009 at 3:27pm:

but mine is actually treatable using Tylenol.

Treatable using Tylenol? Why are you here? >:(

Quote:

Please let me know what I have.

Looks like fence-sitters disease to me.

sorry, cut and paste the wrong thing.  Here are my answers:

#1) Do your headaches normally last LESS THAN 15 minutes?
No

#2) Do your headaches normally last MORE THAN 4 hours?
Yes

#3) Do your headaches normally switch sides from day to day or during a headache?
No

#4) When you have a headache, do you normally seek a quiet, dark place?
No

#5) When you have a headache, do you normally want to be around other people?
No

#6) When you have a headache, can you normally lay down and be motionless?
No

#7) When you have a headache, can you normally go to sleep to make it go away?
No

#8) When you have a headache, do you normally experience nausea?
No

#9) Are your headaches always on the same side of your head?
Yes

#10) Do your headaches normally wake you up from a sound sleep?
No (mine strikes during the day, but if I fall asleep I don't get woken up)

#11) Do your headaches normally occur at the same time of the year and same times each day?
Yes

#12) Do you normally experience a stuffy nostril on the same side of the face as the pain?
Yes (runny, not stuffy)

#13) Do you normally experience a "droopy" eyelid on the same side of the face as the pain?
Yes (but strangely after applying antihistimine eye drops, the symptoms have disappeared)

#14) Do you normally go from totally pain free to totally debilitated in 5-10 minutes?
No (takes about an hour)

#15) Do you normally go from totally debilitated to totally pain free in 5-10 minutes?
No (takes about an hour)

#16) When you have a headache, do you walk, pace, bash your head, thrash, scream?
Yes

-- what leads me to believe it is a cluster headache is that it was excruciating pain on my left side behind the eye that was coupled with a burning sensation in my eye, droopy eyelid, and tears from that eye and a little bit of runny nose, and the pain was from about 10am to 6-7pm.

I don't have any of the signs that it is a migraine (does not affect my vision, I've had it for the last 4 days, no stiff neck, happens at a set time.  This is the first time it's happened - I hope it doesn't get as worse as it is for some of you here).  I also don't think it's an allergy-induced headache as antihistimines does nothing to improve it, except for removing the visible eye symptoms.

The differences:
1) I can treat mine with tylenol
2) the antihistimine eye drops removed the eye symptoms over time, although the burning still persists

It's generally not a good idea to seek diagnosis on an Internet board.

If your headaches can be subdued with simple over the counters meds, I would keep looking for another answer.

Even if you "scored" 100% on the test, you need to remember that there are deadly conditions which can mimic CH symptoms.

If you are concerned, bring your symptoms to a qualified Neurologist. If he/she is any good, you won't get a diagnosis without ruling other problems first with imaging of your head and possibly neck.

I can recall more than one person visiting this site over the years who's symptoms sounded like classic CH's with Kip 10 pain levels. Turned out to be other things needing surgery, fast........

Why chance it?

Marc

Well put Marc

All the best AJY :)

I've been called many things but...a Doctor isn't one of them.

I humbly suggest you see one, a Doctor that is.

Well thank-you but I've seen 5 doctors over the weekend, a GP, an Emergency Doctor, 2 ophthalmologists, and another Emergency Doctor (one who is in charge of conducting CT scans - neurologist?) and none of them can conclude what I had, except that they ruled out all the major problems related to the eye.

The last Emergency Doctor said to wait a week and just tough it out since tylenol seems to work, then come back.  I have never experienced such pain before and this has never happened to me before.

I thought that by coming here, someone might have the same kind of problem.  I've read on some sites that Tylenol does not work on CH, but on the Wikipedia page it says Tylenol "typically" does not work - which means it sometimes can.  One person's reply to this thread seems to imply that Tylenol never works.  What do I believe?

I suppose it's possible that if Tylenol were to work on CH, then those folks generally won't come to a website like this, as they have hope unlike most of you here (outside unconventional treatments).

Then again, it seems like cluster headaches strike several times a day?  For me I just have one constantly long headache from 10am till 7pm?  I don't know the exact time it stops because I only have the last few days to go by, and by around 5pm I've already taken a Tylenol (about the time when I realized Tylenol helped 100% of the time) which saved my head.  Also, I've noticed that when I go to bed, my headache goes away after about 2 hours until I wake up again, and starts up again after 2 hours (hence the 10am start time).

Anyway, I'm not looking for a concrete diagnosis, I'm just looking for some anecdotal advice, assurance, coffee-shop diagnosis etc.  I already have advice from a doctor, so I'm just looking for somewhere to talk about it amongst people who have suffered.  If it definitely doesn't sound like CH to you, why not just give your opinion?  I am an analyst by profession, so I don't make decisions based on "opinions" but nevertheless it's nice to know what other people think.

Thanks.

Ajy,
As an aside, I'm not a clusterhead (supporter).  I have migraines and I don't have any of the symptoms you listed.

Where are you located?  Just because someone is a neurologist or even a headache specialist does NOT mean that they know about clusters (many on here have chased a diagnosis for years).

Carolyn~aka~deltadarlin

Yes, i can definitely rule out certain things.  I probably do not have a migraine headache, nor do I have anything related to a head/neck injury, I don't have a stiff neck which rules out a lot of the neurological ones.  Basically the neurologist (?) wasn't worried and recommended that I do NOT have a CT scan to avoid radiation exposure.

It possibly could be something allergy related, but it's weird that allergy drops helps my eye symptoms (still burns though as if it is very dry) such that it looks normal now, but no allergy pills help my headache.  Plus I only have it in one eye - and allergies typically affect both eyes?

I really hope it isn't a cluster headache as it's supposed to re-occur and that would really suck.  I'm just trying to get some anecdotal advice so that I can pinpoint what it *might* be so I can do more directed research.  There's no harm in looking at proposed natural remedies for what it *might* be to see if they work, or to see a specialist in that area - right?  For example, I am going to see if acupuncture works.

I find the Kip scale very ambiguous for the 8-10 descriptions, as it really depends on your personality does it not?  Although I felt like cutting my head off, it was metaphorical not literally a death-wish, and I'm certainly not stupid enough to bang my head as it would just make a headache worse - duh.  As for asking "why me" - isn't that obvious?  Who wouldn't ask that?  So I don't agree with the "right on the money" description but maybe that's evidence that I don't have CH?

Anyway, I'm in Calgary Canada.

My best advice to you since it seems the doctors are either unaware of all your symptoms or just not thinking in terms of CH is that you start keeping a Headache log.  Log the time of each hit each day, duration and intensity on a scale of 1-10.  Then make another appointment with a neurologist or headache specialist after a few weeks to a Mo. of logging your headaches.

Many times once a Dr. sees in black and white what you are going through it will spur them into action or just  by seeing your situation in writing may have a diagnosis right then and there for you, after the exam of course.  :D

Good Luck and keep us posted.

ajy,

You have now presented a whole lot more info than in your original post!

There is a wealth of information here on the subject of CH's. Stick around and tell us more while you read, read and read some more.

Question: when you talk about your headaches lasting for so many hours at a time, are they at a fairly constant level for that period? Are there small swings in the pain level? Are there really radical swings?

Marc

My headache is constant and relentless, and the only non-medicinal thing that seems to abate it is going to sleep.  It would take me about 2 hours of trying to sleep - 2 hours of thrashing and moaning and clutching my head.  Eventually I fall asleep and when I do wake, the headache has noticeably reduced but would come back over time (about another 1-2 hours time).

However, mine is treatable with Tylenol so it is really impossible to know now the timing of it the more I think about it.  It happens at the same time each day, but maybe because that's when I wake up in the morning?  If it takes 1-2 hours to get to full power from waking, and I wake at 8am then would it not predictably start at 10am?  The ending part is more difficult to explain, because I remember staying up until around 11:30pm without having taken any tylenol in the last 8 hours - on that day the first Emergency Doctor thought I might have glaucoma and gave me glaucoma medicine to relieve pressure from my eye (which was at the time high enough level to indicate glaucoma) and I did not have symptoms after taking the medicine, however the next morning the medicine did not work.  The next day the pressure in my left eye (affected) was less than my right eye, and yet I still had the excruciating head-ache, which therefore rules out glaucoma.  Regardless, I don't seem to have symptoms in the evening regardless of all the things I've tried.

Can I request that the kip scale descriptions be updated?  Specifically the descriptions for 8-10?  Honestly they are really ambiguous and I'll explain why:

Kip 9: "why me" syndrome - I don't know whether Kip had low self esteem, but I've experienced pretty low pain before and asked "why me" if it was sufficiently disruptive (like a tooth ache).  Are you telling me that up until level 8 when you're screaming like a baby, swearing like sailor and can't get to sleep but for some reason you're thinking "I deserve this", or "I'm okay with this" then all of a sudden there's a point (that is universally recognized) at level 9 where you magically realize "aw hell no, why me?"  Honestly, you might as well have a level 11 called "OMG, why the f me?" because it would be equally as nonsensical.  So you tell me, how does one objectively go from 8 to 9?

Kip 10: okay so what's the difference between this and level 8?  The fact that it is "major" whatever the heck that means?  Let's look at the other descriptions:
ER Trip - well I don't know what that means either.  I lined up in Emergency check-in moaning and with my head in my hands and I had to line up behind two guys who looked like they had nothing better to do.  Obviously they thought that their symptoms required an "ER Trip", so the description is meaningless.
Depressed - okay here is another ridiculous one.  Are you honestly telling me that up until level 8 you can't sleep, you're screaming, yelling, cursing and banging your head and only at level 10 - the worst pain known to medical science according to wikipedia - you are feeling a little down (before that, you're just fine and dandy!)?  Gimme a break!
Suicidal - Another totally ambiguous description.  I can understand that some might actually be suicidal, but a lot of you alive today reading this board are obviously not suicidal and are obviously trying to find solutions or relief (the opposite of suicidal).  You may have "entertained" or "fantasized" about suicide but they are completely different things.  Let us NOT trivialize suicide.

So while the kip scale is apparently sacred on this website, perhaps you can entertain the notion that it really isn't that good beyond 8.  I think with these layman type scales, it's better to give numbers that people can relate to and are more objective from an experiential point of view, rather than subjective descriptions like "depressed", "why me" or "suicide".  Maybe:
"fantasized *constantly* and *continually* about cutting off the part of the head causing pain"
or
"worse than childbirth"
or
"Like being stabbed in the eye with the knife still in there"
or
"did something that would demean you to someone you want to respect you" (eg. to your kids, spouse etc.)
or
"like the feeling of a limb being continually amputated"
or
"like all my teeth being pulled out at the same time over and over"

For example, for me, I would rather have this headache than "have all my teeth pulled out at the same time over and over" because teeth are extremely sensitive and the pain is sharp and acute and excruciating - but it's quick and over and done with.  My headache was not as acute but was constant - like being stabbed in the head and having the blade still in there.  So if the teeth pulling was a "10", I might be an 8 or 9 depending on what 9 was.

Just my 2c.

It can be hard to accept, but true Kip-10's are much less common than may be thought. Very few of us that has experienced a true Kip-10 did not think thoughts of, what if I can't take this. Not suicidal just desparate....

One man's k-10 is anothers K-8, so the Kip scale (rest in peace) is not perfect but a good guide to use. With the variations from CH'r to CH'r this is as good as it gets.

During a K-10 for me, if you told me it would stop the pain forever, you could pull my teeth with no painkillers, right now!

I thought I had K-10's for many years before I actually had one. Shoot Me, comes to mind. I hope you never have one...

Don't get me wrong, I do understand, it has been discussed to upgrade the Kip scale. It would be difficult to change it to something any more accurate for the general CH population.

Good post..,
Don

Don - you see - your explanation clearly tells me that I did not experience a level 10.  The "Kip 10" description tells me nothing, and it looks like it told you nothing too since you didn't understand what it was until you experienced it.

That's what I'm talking about.  I don't believe in sacred cows, and sorry to say K9-10 are flawed descriptions.  Maybe replace K10 with D10?  :D

So I disagree with you.  The descriptions CAN be improved that other people CAN identify with.  Up until 8, they are kind of sane, but when you get to 9/10 territory if you can give an absolutely horrid *insane* description (like "worse than all your teeth being pulled out at the same time without painkillers, over and over") - it is more descriptive than "major" or "depressed" (meh).  For crying out loud, people get depressed if they miss an episode of American Idol, what does "depressed" tell you?  Let's be honest, the 9/10 descriptions suck, and I suspect people are persisting with them because "Kip scale" sounds cute/endearing and people are just resistant to change.

Ajy,

Welcome to the board.

To first of all try to answer your first question, no, I don't think you have CH.  I may very well be wrong.  That did happen one other time.  I am not trivializing your situation at all.  Pain is pain, and until you experience a greater pain then the previous one is the worst.  Each of us deals with it differently.

Personally, I can NEVER get to sleep with a hit, even if it is in the shadow stage.  (lower K numbers)  Tylenol can be effective for dealing with shadows that persist, and that may be what you are experiencing if you actually have CH.  You didn't answer whether or not the pain level is constant during the day or whether it swells and diminishes, so it is hard to speak to that.

Marc gave you some excellent advice!  I know you have seen 5 Drs, but from the description you have not seen the ones who could give you a knowledgeable answer about CH.  You need to see a headache specialist who has seen and treated CH.  Many of us have gone years without a proper diagnosis, and those of us who actually were diagnosed were often improperly treated by Drs who meant well, but knew nothing about CH.  I don't understand your Dr not wanting you to get a CT scan just to keep from giving you radiation unless you have other issues that would preclude radiation.  There are other things that can produce pain in localized areas of the head that can be deadly if not caught in time.  If it were me I would be standing on the examination table stomping my feet and demanding either a CT or MRI yesterday if I was going through what you have presented.

As to the upper numbers in the Kip scale, yes they are a bit ambiguous, but when you hit a real K8 the "Why me" is totally different than a casual "why me" from a minor experience.  A true K10 is not common, but when you get one suicide is indeed a considered option.  I have begged my wife to shoot me, and meant it.  When the time comes you won't have any ambiguity about the Kip scale.  I truly hope it continues to confuse you, because the only real way to understand is to experience.

Sorry this is long, but I got to it late and wanted to address several things.  Please stick around and read thoroughly. You need to be able to help in your own treatment.  If you wait for the Dr to decide all that needs to be done you are in for a world of hurt.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

thanks.  The pain is constant and does not swell or diminish during the day.  I can only base this on what I experienced on just this Sat-Mon as starting Mon afternoon I took Tylenol consistently; but before the Tylenol taking was sporadic (when it got really bad) because before Mon afternoon I was either taking allergy medicine or glaucoma medicine depending on which advice I was going on at that time.

What you're telling me about the lower Ks is scaring the heck out of me, so if you can elaborate on where this "swelling/diminishing" is leading, it would really be appreciated.  It would kill me to think that the problem could get worse!

(aside, and I don't want this to be the focus of the discussion as your new information is concerning to me, but your explanations of the Kip scale make sense, but nevertheless by themselves the K9/10 descriptions are useless to someone outside these boards.  Someone can easily say they're "suicidal" if they are flippant about it, without truly understanding/experiencing a K10 episode.  Yes - you know, and so does Don, but only AFTER you've experienced it.  How is that useful to someone who's new and still trying to figure things out?  Also, I still don't understand how to measure "why me".  The fact that outsiders cannot clearly understand it means it's not a good description.  I participate in hobby forums, and glossaries are concise, precise and clear for newbies, not *wink wink* secret code language for insiders.)

Anyway - back to the REAL matter at hand - please elaborate on the importance of swelling/diminishing pain.  Thanks!!! :-/

The reason I asked if the pain was constant or if it would swell or diminish was this,  CH does not normally last for that long a period of time.  It usually hits quickly and ends quickly.  However, there are often what we call "shadows", lower level HA's that can act as a presage to the full on hit, or will linger on for a while following a hit, kind of like a hangover. 

In my opinion ( like arm pits all of us have them, and some of them stink) I don't believe you have CH from the info presented.  That is the good news.  The bad news is you NEED to find out what it is and right now.  That is why I said I would stand up on the exam table and pitch a fit until I was given either a CT or MRI, preferably with contrast, to look for anuerism (sp), tumor, etc.  The odds are highly in your favor that it is something simple, but you need to KNOW, and then get treatment that won't rot your gut and liver like to much Tylenol will.

Please do keep us informed!  We like to know what happens with people even when (hopefully) they don't actually have CH.

All the best,
Jerry

"The fact that outsiders cannot clearly understand it means it's not a good description.  I participate in hobby forums, and glossaries are concise, precise and clear for newbies, not *wink wink* secret code language for insiders."

It is a secret code! You can only understand if you get CH. Its part of the process like an enlightening that only the special ones can decipher.  ;)
In Reality, its difficult to put ones pain into words so as a simple point of relation many have taken this poorly worded scale as a simple 10 point reference. each will make their own interpretation of it.

"Anyway - back to the REAL matter at hand - please elaborate on the importance of swelling/diminishing pain.  Thanks!!!"

A cluster of headaches.
An individual cluster attack or hit "generally" lasts from 45 minutes to 2 hours and generally there is a substantial pain free time between hits for most. This can be a few minutes, an hour or sometimes even days between hits.

Some have back to back hits where the pain escalates very rapidly and diminishes as fast in the above time frames, but between hits there is no pain free time only a lessening of the pain before another hit ramps up..
This can be misconstrued as an all day or extended cluster attack when in reality its several hits all rolled up together.

Thanks Jerry..

Don

Hi guys,

this may be premature but today I woke up markedly better, and it's 9:45am and I haven't taken any medicine yet.  I have a tiny headache but it's tolerable.

I do want to say that I give my wholly inadequate but nonetheless deepest and most heartfelt sympathies to you all who suffer CH.  I am appalled that such suffering can be borne by any one man or woman.  In saying that, I did experience excruciating pain myself and I wanted to get to the bottom of how it rated on your "Kip Scale".  I found the K9/K10 descriptions completely useless so I tracked down Kip to explain how one was to measure when a "why me" became a K9 why me?  It was obvious to me after some replies to this thread that I didn't experience a K10, but nevertheless I was curious whether mine was a K8 or a K9.

Here's his "why me" rating scale:

1) why me? because I'm special!
2) the question for today is: why me?
3) why me? well why not?
4) I'm thinking that at some point in my llife my mother said of me: why me?
5) a priest, pastor and a rabbi walked in a bar and I asked them: why me?
6) clutches a stuffed animal whimpering at the bedpost: why me teddy?  why?
7) I promise to eat that box of kitty litter if someone this question: why me?
8) really - why the fcuc me?
9) mommy?  why me mommy? answer me dammit!
10) Bloody super rip my testicles and answer me M*^% FV<)R : whhhhyyyyy meeeeeeee!!!!??? (congratulations you're at K9)

So given I only rated only a W2, I guess I only reached a K8 on the Kip scale.  In other words: those of you who have rated higher, you have my deepest sympathies and I pray that one day there will be a cure for your condition.

Regarding the CT scan, I will go by the doctor's suggestion given that it appears to be improving and see how it goes by this weekend.  It has been really nice getting to know you!

best regards,
AJY.

You realize that Kip's been dead for a couple of years now, right?

crap - the headache came back.

Brew wrote on Sep 9^th, 2009 at 12:02pm:

You realize that Kip's been dead for a couple of years now, right?

that's why it was so difficult to get the "why me" descriptions!

ajy wrote on Sep 9^th, 2009 at 12:26pm:

Brew wrote on Sep 9th, 2009 at 12:02pm: You realize that Kip's been dead for a couple of years now, right? that's why it was so difficult to get the "why me" descriptions!

Then help enlighten me, please. Why would you say this:

Quote:

so I tracked down Kip to explain how one was to measure...

...if you knew he was no longer with us? Maybe I'm missing the joke.

Holy crap man.  I didn't know.  And even if Kip hadn't passed, I thought it would be painfully obvious I was kidding.

Heck, when someone starts a joke with "so a priest, pastor and rabbi walked in a bar" - do you tell them "uh - you do know we don't have a rabbi in this town right", and then persist on interrogating them to death about it when they try to salvage the joke that you just utterly pissed on?

Since you have done this, it's obvious that anything that's abnormally stated, you take as literal, so let me be painfully forthright with you: I made up the list to highlight how ridiculous the K9 description is.  Okay got it?  Thanks for ruining it.

(holy crap I cannot believe that someone would actually believe that I literally asked Kip, especially if you already knew he had passed it should then be painfully obvious to anyone with wit that the "kip" reference wasn't the POINT of the friggin joke, the list I made up is dumb and was intended to make fun of the K scale and the fact that this has to be explained to you makes this whole situation so bloody stupid.  Next time: learn to recognize a joke and don't question it - jokes are not intended to be analyzed as if they were real.  Duh).

Waiter? Decaf, all around, please.

I apologize - I was failing to see the humor.

don't analyze a joke.  It's not intended to be real, and any attempts to dissect it will make you look like a you-know-what.  And seriously - how can you possibly believe that list came from anywhere but me, in other words - it's made up.  Therefore just let it be.  You remind me of all those people I've ever met who sit there and question jokes after they've been told them and conclude in the end that the joke could not be possible in real life.

If I failed to see the humor, how could I know it was a joke, and thus not analyze it? I'm happy to let it go, I was simply missing your point entirely.

Again I ask you, and I think this point is obvious to anyone: where do you really believe my list came from?  Why not read it again.  Do you really think it's a serious list?  I mean REALLY?  :o

Honestly I can't believe I'm asking this.  Some of the items on that list are the most stupid things I've ever written, and the fact that you're still arguing with me and telling me that you couldn't tell it was a joke is flabbergasting.  How stupid does something have to be before you clue in that it was a joke?

But since you can't tell that something like a "priest/pastor/rabbi walk into a bar" being in the list (the most classic joke OF ALL TIME) means it's a joke, this conversation shouldn't be dragged on any further, because I can't get through to you.

(ps. I'm not caffeinated up, I just got a K7.5 headache right now, so I'm sure you all know what that can do to your mood.  And no, this part is not a joke)

Perhaps we can move along?

Best,

George

ajy,

For what it's worth:

For unexplained, excruciating head pain a good Neurologist will want to see both MRA and MRI imaging to look for tissue/biomass/structural problems and vascular related issues.

Marc

ajy.....I think that we have met before. Coming back under a different name perhaps?

Quote:

But since you can't tell that something like a "priest/pastor/rabbi walk into a bar" being in the list (the most classic joke OF ALL TIME) means it's a joke

,

Apparently not, according to researchers the most classic and funniest joke of all time is...

A couple of New Jersey hunters are out in the woods when one of them falls to the ground. He doesn't seem to be breathing, his eyes are rolled back in his head. The other guy whips out his cell phone and calls the emergency services. He gasps to the operator: "My friend is dead! What can I do?" The operator, in a calm soothing voice says: "Just take it easy. I can help. First, let's make sure he's dead." There is a silence, then a shot is heard. The guy's voice comes back on the line. He says: "OK, now what?"

I prefer the one that came second....

What do you call a monkey in a minefield.. A BABOON... ;)


Lefty...!

Quote:

How stupid does something have to be before you clue in that it was a joke?

Watch yourself ajy. >:(

watch what?  That was an entirely reasonable and inoffensive question.  Perhaps you can tell me what made you mad about it.

Or perhaps you can tell me which ones on my list were not stupid and that you actually took seriously - let's start there.

Honestly, the longer we drag this on the worse it is going to get for everyone.  My #5 simply proves my point regardless of whether you or anyone else were "confused" and thought the other 9 on that list somehow made that list serious.

You can't blame ME for asking these questions, because no-one has yet explained to me how anything from that post could in fact be mistaken for a real actual list that I intended to use to fool others to come from the real Kip.

Ask yourself: how difficult is it to write something stupid?  Real easy right?  So you can imagine how easy it was to come up with a list of 10 stupid things.  Now imagine how puzzled am I that you're offended by that question, because I still don't get it: How stupid do I have to write something before people stop taking it seriously?

ajy wrote on Sep 9^th, 2009 at 4:45pm:

Honestly, the longer we drag this on the worse it is going to get for everyone.

Nope, not here.  Honestly.  Best not to drag it on.


Consider the replies to your original question, humor can be hit and miss.   


Thanks for the research, Lefty.    8-)

Knowing when to stop is most often a critical component of effectively making a point.

Marc

ajy~

check your PM's

This is proof that just a WEE bit of antagonism goes a LOOOONNNNGGGGG Way   

[smiley=twocents.gif] 

 
:D

Putting myself in AJY's shoes here for just a second.

What is my priority?  Finding a knowledgable physician who can diagnose and treat the pain I am in right now?  Or argue semantics about the KIP scale and what was a joke and what wasn't?   


Hmmmmmmmmmm.  ::)

I'm probably the last person to ask whether or not you have it,  but I can't resist contributing my thoughts on the matter.  Given my experience of decades of supposed mis-diagnosis and recent diagnosis with CCH, it's difficult to know quite what to believe.  Clearly the medical profession isn't infallible, by any stretch of the imagination, but nor is self-diagnosis renowned for its reliability.

Writing clearly, on days like today when my pain level is about 5/10, is a struggle.  I have difficulty expressing myself coherently when my pain gets much worse.  So I probably haven't communicated my symptoms very clearly on such occasions, when consulting specialists.  Similarly, I doubt I'd be capable of forming a reliable self-diagnosis when consulting the KIP scale or doing the quiz.

Believe me, when my pain approaches 8/10, reading or writing is last thing on my mind.  It is entirely focused on trying cope with the excruciating pain.  I doubt I could read or write anything when it reaches 9/10.

I probably wouldn't be here at all of it ever reached 10/10, however by comparison I feel absolutely wonderful when it drops to about 2/10.  I imagine it would be like winning the lottery, if it ever dropped to 0/10 again.

Surely, pain is subjective.  I'm not aware of any scientific double-blind method for testing pain in an objective way.  If there is, then perhaps someone could enlighten me.

So, it seems to me that pain threshold scales and quizzes are simply guidelines. Nothing more; nothing less.