Hi, it's been a while since I've posted here. Yes, I know you all hate to see  'migraine' and 'cluster headache' in the same sentence, lol, I'll explain...

I am an episodic clusterhead, though thankfully I have been PF for the last two years. I started having cluster headaches back in 1999 at the age of 21.

I have a 7 year old daughter who was diagnosed with migraines at the age of five. She would get them everyday; she'd vomit once and then sleep it off. Periactin worked and we weaned her off. She'd mainly only get them once in a while. However, now she's getting them once a week and they've become much worse. She has a migraine around 3-4pm, and has round the clock vomiting all through the night, literally every 10 minutes, and it always ends around noon the next day. She is already a scrawny little runt, and it hurts to see her so sick and forming deep purple circles under her eyes.  :-[ I never even knew such young children could even get migraines! Her new medication, Elavil, doesn't seem to be helping at all.  I'm hoping to see a specialist soon.

Does anyone know if her migraines could be somehow related to my own cluster headaches? Just seems suspicious that my daughter and I both suffer from a chronic type of headache, my other two daughters have no issues (we both happen to be hard of hearing as well, and she's my spitting image, she's my twin!).

I am definitely no doctor but I will say this. I had migraines for years. As soon as clusters became a part of my life, I haven't had a migraine since so I often say that my migraines "upgraded" to clusters. I have also seen this mentioned by others here to the effect of having started with migraines and now clusters, never both in their life at the same time it seems. One turns into the other. Not trying to scare you I promise but had to mention it since you asked. Anyone agree or disagree with me?

I have BOTH CH and migraines.

Family history... grandmother, father and son have migraines - no CH with any of them. I'm just the lucky one.

I did NOT develop migraines until AFTER I'd been suffering from CH for years and years. And they don't hit often, but they do hit and I don't like them.

I can feel for you watching your child suffer. My son developed migraines when he was small. His weren't as bad as your daughter's seem to be, but they would put him down for hours and hours. He's 41 now and still suffers and it still hurts to watch him. BUT he's a stubborn little twirp (don't know where he gets that) and won't do anything about it.

The doc gave him an RX for Imitrex, but his remark was, "I'M NOT GIVING MYSELF A SHOT!!!" The only time he's gotten one is when Mom gave it to him and it worked, but.... (and his wife is an RN, but as I said he's stubborn!).

You might start watching what she eats. Migraines have triggers from food (processed cheese, chocolate, etc).

Ask your doc about a phenergan supp. for the upchucking (a pill won't stay down).

My prayers are with you. But don't worry about them turning into CH. It may or may not happen - don't worry now. Just take care of the immediate problem.

Hugs BD :-*

Thanks for replying. I see that it's quite possible there's a relation between the two. It's a little scary, the thought of Emily possibly getting clusters in the future. She's a tough kid though, she never whines or complains. Last night, during the migraine, I did run out and get her an anti-nausea med. She stopped vomiting after about 11pm, which has never happened, so it must have worked. I do think the suppository would work better though. She's back to normal this morning, climbing the walls.  ;)

Going to the doctor tomorrow to see what the next step will be. I only hope that this won't stay with her for life or turn into a more chronic cluster condition. I noticed the children/cluster sub-forum, I just can't imagine!!  :'(

That there is a genetic factor in CH has been weakly established as is the existence of both types of headache in families AND that some folks have both types at the same time OR both types at different times in their lives. 

Which is to say: the genetics is poor understood at this stage. But the fact that CH & migraine responds to many of the same meds points to some common processes which have yet to be unraveled. Peter Goadsby's ground breaking brain studies have opened some important new doors for research but I suspect it will be a decade before some really functional (for treatment) knowledge emerges.

Glad that you are seeking a good specialist!!

Unfortunately, it does sound like she's startd to "upgrade" or develope ch's And as we all know not much works to alleviate those. Say something to her dac and try pushing o2 just to see if it helps. It's natural, and a lot of people swear by it. Good luck to you and your poor, sweet little angel. I'll keep you in my prayers. :'(

You might want to pm Catlind, she has both ch. and migraines.  Something you might want to consider too, if you haven't tried it.  Keep ginger capsules around, it is wonderful for nausea.  She can take them on a regular basis, if need be.

Carolyn

Interesting question.

They may indeed be related on some level, but I have no particular insight into what that relationship may be.  As Bob pointed out, the fact that both CH and migraine respond to some of the same medications may indicate underlying processes that the two conditions have in common.

That being said, in my own particular case, there is no history of migraine in my family at all.  I've never had a migraine myself--only episodic CH.

Best,

George

There are several of us who have both CH and migraines and some other headache conditions too. Lizzie2 is another. Nani has both too. I have both and ice picks too - it's not all that uncommon.

As for your daughters migraines, I believe the age of seven is the optimum age for migraine starting from what I was told by my middle son's doctor. (He has migraine)

Migraine and CH are two very different beasts. If you ever experience both you will know instantly which is which. They aren't confuseable!

I think the idea that they respond to the same meds is potentially misleading as, if you think about it, we use seizure meds, blood pressure meds, anti psychotics - the gang's all here!

It's a definite that migraine is a vascular type of headache as well but the mechanism is so different to CH that I think it's "just another headache type".

There are over 600 headache types - they all resemble several others in many ways as there are only so many symptoms to go around.

You definitely need to see a paediatric headache specialist asap. If you need help finding one let me know and I'll see if I can help. I know what it is to have a child in pain, I'll do all I can to help

Helen

I have chronic CH and my son has suffered from migraines since before the age of 2 (when he was diagnosed).

His neurologist put him on the following medications after several other medications were tried and failed...

Inderal (Propranolol) and Amitriptyline these finally worked to help prevent the migraines and ease the nausea.  He had to take an imitrex shot when he got a migraine. 

I hope this will help when you take your little one to the Dr.

Hang in there I know how hard it can be!

{{{ Hugs }}}
Ging...

I suffer from ch and migraines.  My grandmother got bad migraines all her life.  I had never had a ha until I was 28.  Then all of a sudden I was hit with chronic ch.  Then chronic migraines as well.  I got like 8 migraines a month ontop of my 8xh a day.  I would get both at the same time.  It is possible.  My son Josh gets both ch and migraines also.  My other son get migraines.  What a curse to leave my children. 

Med literature makes it clear that making a diagnosis is not easy and often requires multiple doc and years of evaluations.
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         Migrainous features in cluster headache
         Wäber C and Knopf A
         Department of Neurology, Medical University of Vienna,
         Vienna, Austria

         Objectives:    To assess in patients with cluster headache (CH) the
         prevalence of headache characteristics and associated symptoms usu-
         ally related to migraine.

         Background:    CH is a headache disorder clearly defined by ICHD-Il
         criteria. Nevertheless diagnosis is delayed in many patients. One rea-
         son for this delay might be the presence of migrainous features dur-
         ing CH attacks.

         Methods:  We are currently performing the first survey on CH in
         Austria including 76 patients (18% women, mean age 43 ± 10 years)
         with CH according to ICHD-Il up to now. All patients completed a
         structured questionnaire. In this presentation, we will focus on
         migrainous features comprising pulsating pain, aggravation by or
         avoidance of physical activity, nausea, vomiting, photophobia, pho-
         nophohia and aura symptoms in CH attacks.
         Results:  Seventy-eight percei1t of the patients had episodic CH and
         22% had chronic CH. Three percent gave a personal history and
         almost 38% a family history of migraine. During a cluster period
         the patients experienced 16 ± 10 attacks per week with a mean dura-
         tion of 69 ± 60 minutes. Pulsating pain was experienced at least in
         some attacks by 47% of the patients. Headache was aggravated by
         physical activity in 26% and 43% experienced a need for rest. Con-
         sidering that 88% of the patients reported restlessness suggests that
         aggravation by physical activity and/or the wish to rest was present
         together with restlessness in at least some of the attacks. Nausea,
         vomiting, photophobia and phonophohia were reported by 41%,
         24%, 49% and 46%, of the patients. Unilateral photo- or phonopho-
         hia was experienced by 37%. Aura occurred in 28% of the patients
         and visual symptoms were reported most frequently namely by 20%.
         The prevalence of migrainous symptoms was not related to a per-
         sonal or family history of migraine.

         Conclusions:   Migrainous symptoms are common in CH and not
         related to a personal or family history of migraine. Even though ftc-
         quency and duration of attacks clearly differentiate CH from
         migraine, the presence of migrainous symptoms in CH might cause
         misdiagnoses in patients with infrequent or long-lasting attacks.

(Cephalalgia, 29 (Suppl. 1, 2009)
============
The same neurovascular theory arising from Goadsby's work is now being applied to both migraine & CH.
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eMedicine Specialties > Neurology > Headache and Pain
Pathophysiology and Treatment of Migraine and Related Headache
Author: Soma Sahai-Srivastava, MD, Director of Neurology Ambulatory Care Services, LAC and USC Medical Center; Assistant Professor, Department of Neurology, University of Southern California
Coauthor(s): David Y Ko, MD, Associate Professor, Department of Neurology, University of Southern California Keck School of Medicine
Updated: Sep 4, 2008
Pathophysiology of Migraine
Two main schools of thought exist to explain the pathophysiology of migraine. The first is older and is based purely on a vascular theory; it has fallen out of favor and has been replaced by the neurovascular theory. What is now clear is that migraine is a chronic disorder of the CNS and the vascular changes that occur are more of an epiphenomenon.
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My point is simple: IF we knew more about the sources of these complex headache disorders and the processes by which they occur, it would be easier to find some effective, enduring treatments--perhaps, even, preventives.

Patience and peristence are truly survival skills for us!

Since her headaches and symptoms have changed, I wouldn't want to give you any advice except to get to a specialist and report the changes.  After testing to eliminate other conditions, then I would discuss the types of headaches with your doc.