Anybody have this MMPI test for your clusters?

What's that?

Chad wrote on Dec 15^th, 2009 at 2:53pm:

Anybody have this MMPI test for your clusters?

Why?

        Potter

Potter wrote on Dec 15^th, 2009 at 2:59pm:

Why?         Potter

My new neuro wants to do this along with the EEG and MRI.  I know nothing about it other than what I researched on Google.

MMPI 2 TEST QUESTIONS IN ORDER
TRUE OR FALSE (567 QUESTIONS)

1.I like mechanics magazines
2.I have a good appetite
3.I wake up fresh & rested most mornings
4.I think I would like the work of a librarian
5.I am easily awakened by noise
6.I like to read newspaper articles on crime
7.My hands and feet are usually warm enough
8.My daily life is full of things that keep me interested
9.I am about as able to work as I ever was
10.There seems to be a lump in my throat much of the time
11.A person should try to understand his dreams and be guided by or take warning from them
12.I enjoy detective or mystery stories
13.I work under a great deal of tension
14.I have diarrhea once a month or more
15.Once in a while I think of things too bad to talk about
16.I am sure I get a raw deal from life
17.My father was a good man
18.I am very seldom troubled by constipation
19.When I take a new, I like to be tipped off on whom should be gotten next to
20.My sex life is satisfactory
21.At times I have very much wanted to leave home
22.At times I have fits of laughing & crying that I cannot control
23.I am troubled by attacks of nausea and vomiting
24.No one seems to understand me
25.I would like to be a singer
26.I feel that it is certainly best to keep my mouth shut when I’m in trouble
27.Evil spirits possess me at times
28.When someone does me a wrong I feel I should pay him back if I can, just for the principle of the thing.
29.I am bothered by acid stomach several times a week
30.At times I feel like swearing
31.I have nightmares every few nights
32.I find it hard to keep my mind on a task or job
33.I have had very peculiar and strange experiences
34.I have a cough most of the time
35.If people had not had it in for me I would have been much more successful
36.I seldom worry about my heath
37.I have never been in trouble because of my sex behavior
38.During one period when I was a youngster I engaged in petty thievery
39.At times I feel like smashing things
40.Most any time I would rather sit and daydream than to do anything else
41.I have had periods of days, weeks, or months when I couldn’t take care of things because I couldn’t “get going”
42.My family does not like the work I have chosen ( or the work I intend to choose for my life work)
43.My sleep is fitful and disturbed
44.Much of the time my head seems to hurt all over
45.I do not always tell the truth
46.My judgment is better than it ever was
47.Once a week or oftener I feel suddenly hot all over without apparent cause
48.When I am with people I am bothered by hearing very queer things
49.It would be better if almost all laws were thrown away
50.My soul sometimes leaves my body
51.I am in just as good physical health as most of my friends
52.I prefer to pass by school friends, or people I know but have not seen for a long time, unless they speak to me first
53.A minister can cure disease by praying and putting his hand on your head
54.I am liked by most people who know me
55.I am almost never bothered by pains over the heart or in my chest
56.As a youngster I was suspended from school one or more times for cutting up
57.I am a good mixer
58.Everything is turning out just like the prophets of the Bible said it would
59.I have often had to take orders from someone who did not know as much as I did
60.I do not read every editorial in the newspaper everyday
61.I have not lived the right kind of life
62.Parts of my body often have feeling like burning, tingling, crawling, or like “going to sleep”
63.I have had no difficulty in starting or holding my bowel movement
64.I sometimes keep on at a thing until others lose their patience with me
65.I loved my father
66.I see things or animals or people around me that others do not see
67.I wish I could be as happy as others seem to be
68.I hardly ever feel pain in the back of the neck
69.I am very strongly attracted by members of my own sex
70.I used to like drop-the-handkerchief
71.I think a great many people exaggerate their misfortunes in order to gain the sympathy and help of others
72.I am troubled by discomfort in the pit of my stomach every few days or oftener
73.I am an important person
74.I have often wished I were a girl.  (Or if you are a girl) I have never been sorry that I am a girl
75.I get angry sometimes

         Now that there is some kinda bullshit.

              Potter

That there is very strange.  I never heard of the test until yesterday.  Everything else the new neuro wants done seems legit, plus he supports O2 and seeds.
This test is my only question mark.

Thanks Potter, i'm going to bring this up to him on "why" I need to take this test?  It seems ridiculous.

The MMPI is one of the oldest, best researched, and widely used personality tests. Been around since, I recall, 1940s or so.

Don't try and understand this abstract but I send it along to show how it has been used to try and see if certain personality types have a different response to CH. Basically, some personality types have a harder time coping with CH because of their emotional response to sickness. It has long been recognized, for example, that clinical depression leads people to feel pain and disability more strongly then non-depressed people.

It's more complex than this one statement can express, but I'm only trying to convey that our personality make-up has a very real impact on how illness, disability--problems of the physical body--influences our coping capacity.

If you have read my little piece, "Pain vs. Suffering", which is posted on the OUCH site, you get some idea of how we think/feel/process our experiences, impacts how we deal with CH.

In offering this test to you, the doc is not saying anything more than: Knowing how you deal with distress will help me help you. Taking offense is not helpful.

=============

Pain. 2009 Apr 24. 
Personality profiles and subjective perception of pain in head pain patients.

Mongini F, Rota E, Evangelista A, Ciccone G, Milani C, Ugolini A, Ferrero L, Mongini T, Rosato R.

Department of Clinical Pathophysiology, Headache and Facial Pain Unit, University of Turin, 10126 Turin, Italy.

Little or no information is available regarding the effect of the personality characteristics of headache sufferers on the quality of pain perception. The aim of this study is to investigate, in head pain sufferers, the relationship between the personality profile, assessed by the MMPI, and the different dimensions of pain (sensory, affective and evaluative), as assessed by the MPQ. Three hundred and seventeen patients with Migraine and/or tension-type headache (episodic or chronic) and myogenic facial pain were included. The Italian versions of the MMPI-2 and MPQ were administered, and the pain level was measured by the VAS. Cluster analysis based on the clinical scales of MMPI identified four personality profiles closely corresponding to the MMPI profiles obtained by the previous researchers: "depressive" (Dep.), "emotionally overwhelmed" (Emot.), "conversive" (Conv.) and "Coper". Differences in MPQ scales between personality profiles were investigated by means of a general linear model (GLM), adjusting for sex, age and pain level and type. Results of GLM analysis showed that the affective dimension was significantly higher in cluster Emot. than in Dep. (p=0.027), Conv. (p=0.002) and Coper (p=0.003). Total PRI was significantly higher in Emot. than in Conv. (p=0.010).

THE FINDINGS OF THE PRESENT STUDY SUGGEST THAT A SPECIFIC PERSONALITY PROFILE (EMOT.), CHARACTERIZED BY A HEAVY EMOTIONAL BURDEN, MAY INCREASE THE AFFECTIVE DIMENSION OF PAIN WITH RESPECT TO A DEPRESSIVE PROFILE (DEP.), A CONVERSIVE PROFILE (CONV.) OR A NORMAL PROFILE (COPER), INDEPENDENT OF SEX, AGE AND PAIN LEVEL AND TYPE.

PMID: 19394764 [PubMed]

Thanks Bob.  I'm not taking offense, i'm just questioning it.  What you described is what he said, but in Greek it seems, lol! 

Bob Johnson wrote on Dec 15^th, 2009 at 3:45pm:

The MMPI is one of the oldest, best researched, and widely used personality tests. Been around since, I recall, 1940s or so. Don't try and understand this abstract but I send it along to show how it has been used to try and see if certain personality types have a different response to CH. Basically, some personality types have a harder time coping with CH because of their emotional response to sickness. It has long been recognized, for example, that clinical depression leads people to feel pain and disability more strongly then non-depressed people. It's more complex than this one statement can express, but I'm only trying to convey that our personality make-up has a very real impact on how illness, disability--problems of the physical body--influences our coping capacity. If you have read my little piece, "Pain vs. Suffering", which is posted on the OUCH site, you get some idea of how we think/feel/process our experiences, impacts how we deal with CH. In offering this test to you, the doc is not saying anything more than: Knowing how you deal with distress will help me help you. Taking offense is not helpful. ============= Pain. 2009 Apr 24.  Personality profiles and subjective perception of pain in head pain patients. Mongini F, Rota E, Evangelista A, Ciccone G, Milani C, Ugolini A, Ferrero L, Mongini T, Rosato R. Department of Clinical Pathophysiology, Headache and Facial Pain Unit, University of Turin, 10126 Turin, Italy. Little or no information is available regarding the effect of the personality characteristics of headache sufferers on the quality of pain perception. The aim of this study is to investigate, in head pain sufferers, the relationship between the personality profile, assessed by the MMPI, and the different dimensions of pain (sensory, affective and evaluative), as assessed by the MPQ. Three hundred and seventeen patients with Migraine and/or tension-type headache (episodic or chronic) and myogenic facial pain were included. The Italian versions of the MMPI-2 and MPQ were administered, and the pain level was measured by the VAS. Cluster analysis based on the clinical scales of MMPI identified four personality profiles closely corresponding to the MMPI profiles obtained by the previous researchers: "depressive" (Dep.), "emotionally overwhelmed" (Emot.), "conversive" (Conv.) and "Coper". Differences in MPQ scales between personality profiles were investigated by means of a general linear model (GLM), adjusting for sex, age and pain level and type. Results of GLM analysis showed that the affective dimension was significantly higher in cluster Emot. than in Dep. (p=0.027), Conv. (p=0.002) and Coper (p=0.003). Total PRI was significantly higher in Emot. than in Conv. (p=0.010). THE FINDINGS OF THE PRESENT STUDY SUGGEST THAT A SPECIFIC PERSONALITY PROFILE (EMOT.), CHARACTERIZED BY A HEAVY EMOTIONAL BURDEN, MAY INCREASE THE AFFECTIVE DIMENSION OF PAIN WITH RESPECT TO A DEPRESSIVE PROFILE (DEP.), A CONVERSIVE PROFILE (CONV.) OR A NORMAL PROFILE (COPER), INDEPENDENT OF SEX, AGE AND PAIN LEVEL AND TYPE. PMID: 19394764 [PubMed]

  Maybe just maybe we tend to over think the problem.

                  Potter

That's a test? Better bring a pig sticker to stick in the doc's eye, maybe then he will get the idea.

What a bunch of schlocky questions..

What's this one mean?
"70.I used to like drop-the-handkerchief"

What kind of a question is that?

The eggheads are still in the process of taking over. Their mission won't be complete until the rest of us are institutionalized.

I wonder if theres a study guide.

Does it then follow that all those jumpy lines on an EKG or EEG  have no meaning--becasue you don't understand the meaning?

Or the random numbers on a lab test? No significance?

Just this week, I found a letter to the editor in which the writer said:

"I don't understand why people want to believe in science--science is changing all the time."

Well, under my name these days there is all this gibberish, and I have no idea what it means, or how it got there.
x1|Ossipee NH|USA|usa|516|68|NH,New

I have no idea what to drop a hankie means either... Or why anyone would like to drop one..

By the way I don't get any motor magazine to read for fun, but read plenty of tech data on automotive data for diagnositcs, but I call that work.

The test as shown is schlock.. I wish CH was....

Mac_Muz wrote on Dec 16^th, 2009 at 1:16pm:

Well, under my name these days there is all this gibberish, and I have no idea what it means, or how it got there. x1|Ossipee NH|USA|usa|516|68|NH,New

You have the power to fix that yourself. Click on "User CP" above, then find the proper page on which it exists and get rid of it.

Your fellow clusterheads thank you.

The MMPI (and MMPI II) is a clinical test used to evaluate an individuals personality.   It provides clear, valid descriptions of people's problems, symptoms, and characteristics in broadly accepted clinical language.

Now, is the neuro going to refer you to a psychologist/psychiatrist to have this done?  I would also check with your insurance, as this might not be covered (some insurance plans get stupid when it comes to psychological tests, counseling, etc.).  If I were you, I would ask why he wants to have this test done, what he thinks he might learn from the results and how will he use those results.

If you have nothing better to do and don't mind something like this being part of your permanent medical file, go for it.  Although this test is considered accurate, it is possible to *play with the answers* and skew the results.

It seems that a lot of those questions would be skewed by CH   
   No 18 ----verapamil     etc.

Its sort of like having a sleep study done while in cycle.  not the proper time maybe.
     just my opinion        :)
   

deltadarlin wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 9:13am:

The MMPI (and MMPI II) is a clinical test used to evaluate an individuals personality.   It provides clear, valid descriptions of people's problems, symptoms, and characteristics in broadly accepted clinical language. Now, is the neuro going to refer you to a psychologist/psychiatrist to have this done?  I would also check with your insurance, as this might not be covered (some insurance plans get stupid when it comes to psychological tests, counseling, etc.).  If I were you, I would ask why he wants to have this test done, what he thinks he might learn from the results and how will he use those results. If you have nothing better to do and don't mind something like this being part of your permanent medical file, go for it.  Although this test is considered accurate, it is possible to *play with the answers* and skew the results.

I had so much info thrown at me at the neuro
appt. that I really didn't ask too much about this test.
I thought he said something about how I deal with clusters while in cycle.  As we all know, everybody handles this demon differently.  I am also scheduled for an EEG and MRI this coming Monday.  He told me about insurance possibly not covering the MMPI test so I am aware of that.  The thing I like about him most is that he is a D.O. rather than an M.D.  I always thought DO's support alternative treatments or therapies and this doc definitely does since he supports the use of LSA, shrooms and LSD.  He wasn't quick to put me on meds, however that is an option if the hallucinogens fail.

Quote:

He told me about insurance possibly not covering the MMPI test so I am aware of that.

Shit, dude. I'd be running so fast and so far from this....

Or you could politely and diplomatically tell him to put his test where the sun don't shine. This is total bullshit.

Brew, Fixed i guess... Dunno what that was..

I might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but that MMPI test isn't either. Anyone who wasted their time filling that out deserves what ever is said by a ju ju witch doctor, as that to me is about as much good as it can do.

I can see anyone can read into it what they want to see. I wouldn't do one, much less pay to take it.

I can tell if paint is in a pot, or if it's mud, plain right off..

Maybe anyone who takes that test should also consider paying for a nice tea leaf reading..  ;D

Brew wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 2:02pm:

Shit, dude. I'd be running so fast and so far from this.... Or you could politely and diplomatically tell him to put his test where the sun don't shine. This is total bullshit.

Brew, I have considered that.  All I need to tell him is that i'm psychological fine during cycles.  I'm annoyed as F, but I manage.  I don't see the need for a test of this nature.  I'm my option.  He seems very down to Earth so i'm sure he won't have a problem with that.

Chad you always seem fine to me... :D LOL

Go see the guy but tell him he can take the test in your place, and let you determine if he is set...  ;D

I have seen a lot of screwy doctors..

Chad wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 2:39pm:

Brew wrote on Dec 17th, 2009 at 2:02pm: Shit, dude. I'd be running so fast and so far from this.... Or you could politely and diplomatically tell him to put his test where the sun don't shine. This is total bullshit. Brew, I have considered that.  All I need to tell him is that i'm psychological fine during cycles.  I'm annoyed as F, but I manage.  I don't see the need for a test of this nature.  I'm my option.  He seems very down to Earth so i'm sure he won't have a problem with that.

I'm dying to know just what the f*** he hopes to learn from it - or is he just a nosey SOB. A test of this nature for a person suffering ONLY from a debilitating physical condition is not just out of bounds, it's not even in the stadium parking lot.

Brew, maybe Chad likes dropping hankies?  ;D

I have no idea what that means.. In this day and age there is lots of things I don't know what they mean..

I wonder if it is a 'gay' related question? But in truth I have no idea what it could possibly mean and understand why, unless someone who knows says so...

The other day on a tool site I read a term "babydaddy" and searched it.. I still don't know what that means.. I don't think I want to..

Mac and Brew,

I'll just put it to him this way.  If you're willing to spot the $100 to cover the tests, i'll take it.  Otherwise, you can omit that test from your observation. 

Out of the two neuros I have been to, this guy is much better than the other jackass for the mere reason of pushing for O2 therapy and clusterbusting.
My first neuro rolled his eyes at me when I said I spoke on chat boards to folks like yourselves.  This new guys encouraged it.  He even showed me framed drawings of other clusterheads and how they feel when they get hit.  If the MMPI test is the only disagreement i've had with him thus far, that's minor.  He's a keeper.

Quote:

My first neuro rolled his eyes at me when I said I spoke on chat boards to folks like yourselves.

I would too. Look at the likes of us.... ;D

Brew wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 3:06pm:

I would too. Look at the likes of us.... ;D

Brew, I wouldn't expect anything less coming from you, lol

Mac_Muz wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 2:12pm:

Brew, Fixed i guess... Dunno what that was.. I might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but that MMPI test isn't either. Anyone who wasted their time filling that out deserves what ever is said by a ju ju witch doctor, as that to me is about as much good as it can do. I can see anyone can read into it what they want to see. I wouldn't do one, much less pay to take it. I can tell if paint is in a pot, or if it's mud, plain right off.. Maybe anyone who takes that test should also consider paying for a nice tea leaf reading..  ;D

I'm actually going to have to disagree with you on your assessment of the MMPI.  While I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to someone just because they have an illness or deal with chronic pain, it is a valuable psychological test.  It is considered the gold standard for evaulating psychological problems.

I do take offense somewhat at the reference to juju witch doctor, as the this test is used by psychologists and psychiatrists, many of whom I know personally to be good people.  And..........although the person taking it might manipulate their answers, the outcome itself is not variable.  Answers will fall into certain parameters and that is how diagnosis is made.

deltadarlin, No offence, but if this is considered the gold standard for evaulating psychological problems we as a Nation are in deep kimshee.

Once I lived for 3 winters (years) in a tee pee, off the land because i was hurt on the job and AIG screwed me out of back surgery. I was sent at one point for a psychological exam.

That ju ju doctor was as gay as a rainbow. He wore frilly scarves and had hundreds tied to a floor lamp.

I would maintain I was more average and more normal, what ever that is, than that so called doctor, who held out a pinky just ever so', and behaved as if he were a woman. He was very proud of his scarf collection.

Now before this goes totally south, I worked with a gay guy building wooden musical items, like church organs, and a female gay, driving teams of horses to haul tourists around in winter on a really big sleigh (logging pung), and had no problems with them.

But Doctor fu fu was just over the top. I didn't fill the prescription he gave me either, as there wasn't anything wrong with my thinking, while the court thought so. The court was upset because i got their papers a little too damp for their liking.

The court failed to understand when I said tee pee and woods I ment tee pee and living in the woods. It just happened to be -50 below 0 degrees F. It wasn't my fault no court investigator would come after I made an invite for around 3:00 am any time they wanted.

That test is total schlock.

The problem is there is no 'science' in any one of the questions..

Chad, any time you want to come to NH I can read your tea leaves and I bet 1/2 of it will come true.

That test is as good as flipping a coin..


Brew wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 3:06pm:

Quote: My first neuro rolled his eyes at me when I said I spoke on chat boards to folks like yourselves. I would too. Look at the likes of us.... ;D

To fix a neuro that rolls his eyes, try sticking a red hot bayonett in one of his eyes and he will see what 'normal' is for us.

on edit:

I don't know what the policy is here on pics...

So this link is me and a buddy, I would be the fuzzy one, if anyone wants to know what I look like.
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Mac_Muz wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 3:35pm:

To fix a neuro that rolls his eyes, try sticking a red hot bayonett in one of his eyes and he will see what 'normal' is for us.

Trust me Mac, I felt like punching the F'er out.

deltadarlin wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 3:15pm:

I'm actually going to have to disagree with you on your assessment of the MMPI.  While I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to someone just because they have an illness or deal with chronic pain, it is a valuable psychological test.  It is considered the gold standard for evaulating psychological problems. I do take offense somewhat at the reference to juju witch doctor, as the this test is used by psychologists and psychiatrists, many of whom I know personally to be good people.  And..........although the person taking it might manipulate their answers, the outcome itself is not variable.  Answers will fall into certain parameters and that is how diagnosis is made.

I won't disagree with this, but I will disagree with anyone who says this test has any place in a neurologist's practice or has any place being applied to a patient who complains of debilitating headaches.

Perhaps once a competent neurologist dismisses a patient and suspects deeper rooted psychological problems....but the test should be administered by a psychologist or psychiatrist.

Brew wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 3:50pm:

I won't disagree with this, but I will disagree with anyone who says this test has any place in a neurologist's practice or has any place being applied to a patient who complains of debilitating headaches. Perhaps once a competent neurologist dismisses a patient and suspects deeper rooted psychological problems....but the test should be administered by a psychologist or psychiatrist.

From what I understand, the test would be performed by a psychologists.  It won't be in my neuro's office If I do it at all. 

Just tested my link...

I did KO a dentist once, but it was a mistake. He blew air on a really bad nerve, and found himself on the floor bleeding from the nose profusely, after he came too.

Mac_Muz wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 3:55pm:

Just tested my link... I did KO a dentist once, but it was a mistake. He blew air on a really bad nerve, and found himself on the floor bleeding from the nose profusely, after he came too.

OUCH!!!

I see the test as that the medical proffession might not take this CH as real. No one could fake this mess, and no one would want to even if they had enough energy.

When I first looked at the thread I had no idea what the test was about. Vet posted the few questions and I read them ALL.

My Scottish temper went bonkers before I was done reading them all and so I began to mock the test as the hog wash it is.

I am sure with tea leaves i can come to the very same conclusions. Namely both the tea leaves and that test are one in the same thing. Total schlock.

I know what is real and what isn't. Maybe my way of looking at the beast isn't very real, since I am at war with it, but being at war with it helps me fight it.

I get to beat the beast down, just like it was a real 3-D beast. it helps me get out of bed in the middle of night, polish the brass grip on my torch handle and do battle sitting in a lawn chair out in the barn.

By the way i do like picking up my hankie if I accidently drop it so I can have something to blow my nose in... The only difference is my hankie is a roll of paper towels.

Thanks guys fer puttin up with my play. To me this is a place to play as well as learn.

I will admitt that I have Peter Pan Sydrome. This is a terrible affliction, and for it I do not want to grow up... 58 years now, going on 14.. it works for me.  ;D

Brew,
Think I already said what you did, didn't I?

Good to see you wear (or wore) a helmet, Mac.

deltadarlin wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 4:10pm:

Brew, Think I already said what you did, didn't I?

Yep. I was agreeing with you. Wasn't I? ;)

I find it outrageous that anyone would want to administer that test to people with cluster headaches - it's not like people with 'suicide headaches' are more likely to have serious problems that might result in other problems. Oh, wait, they are!  Maybe all doctors should do psychological screening on clusterheads and follow up if need be with some additional support.

Chad,
I'd forego the MMPI.  It's actually not designed for general psychological testing/usage.  The MMPI was designed to measure pathological personality traits. 

If the doc is worried about your emotional well-being, then that's fine, but that's where a good counselor (or this board) comes in.

Brew wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 4:19pm:

Good to see you wear (or wore) a helmet, Mac.

I do and it is a lid free state... I don't have too, but it helps to put the mush in after a bad CH.  ;) There are some days it is just too nice and i may go with out, but not many are all that nice.

deltadarlin, There is a chance that test might help someone who has feet that don't touch the ground most of the time, but a Ch is far from that.

Giving that to a Ch'er is a insult, and saying they don't have pain, or that the pain is all in 'their' head, but not real and so 'they' are just making it up for the attention.

I deal in moving metal, bending it, welding it and timing moving parts and so I had better know what is real and what isn't.

A CH is as real as a timing belt on a engine, and if I get it wrong thar's gonna be a lot of smashed parts.

I assume you suffer from CH, and wonder what you would say if some schmuck doctor told you 'women don't get Ch take a assperin and go settle down' ???

Now I didn't say that, as I know better, but some doctors do......

Mac,
I'm a little confused by your responses (nope, not a ch'er, just a migrainer who's supported her ch'er for over 25 years).  I have said on more than one occasion that I do not believe that the MMPI would be beneficial to Chad or any other person with ch.  or anyone with an illness or chronic pain.

Should I type slower?

deltadarlin wrote on Dec 17^th, 2009 at 8:10pm:

Mac, I'm a little confused by your responses (nope, not a ch'er, just a migrainer who's supported her ch'er for over 25 years).  I have said on more than one occasion that I do not believe that the MMPI would be beneficial to Chad or any other person with ch.  or anyone with an illness or chronic pain. Should I type slower?

WAUGH! Yeah maybe you should!  ;D I will freely admit to being something of a good and proper knuckle dragger...

T y p i n '  l i k e  t h i s  j u s t  m i g h t  d o  i t  f e r  m e.  ;)

Alright, here's my opinion:  cluster headaches are still "shrouded" in mystery in the medical community.  Seems impossible to medical community that people could actually be experiencing so much pain without an actual physical injury.  Seems flabbergasting that these said people get pretty upset about having to have all that pain.  So, the next step is to start suspecting/probing things like personality defects/weaknesses, rather than face the fact that the damn headaches really hurt like hell.  Especially when they come over and over again and wake you up at night and then you have to cope with a lot of pain on top of having no sleep.  People don't understand what they haven't experienced--that's all.  That is the reason for the personality test to find out if the person is "overreacting" or "misinterpreting" the pain.  TOTAL BS. 

Starlight,
I hate to be the voice of dissension here, but I think that what you are saying is absurd!   #1-that would be far beyond the realms of what the MMPI tests for and #2-Chad had already said that his doc was a good doc and he liked him.

deltadarlin wrote on Dec 24^th, 2009 at 9:45am:

Starlight, I hate to be the voice of dissension here, but I think that what you are saying is absurd!   #1-that would be far beyond the realms of what the MMPI tests for and #2-Chad had already said that his doc was a good doc and he liked him.

Heck, every doc may have something you don't agree with and if this MMPI test is the only thing, so be it.  Everything else he has said is dead on.  I had my MRI and EEG on Monday, that's usually routine. He writes scripts for the things I need like O2 and Trex inj. and most of all he supports the use of LSA and LSD.  I doubt half of everybodies neuros on here back that up.  I wouldn't trade this guy for the world.

Amen, Chad.  If you have a doc you like and trust, stay with them!

Starlight,
If there were a lot of docs who were recommending that ch'ers get psychological testing done, then your idea would be valid.  As it stands, I don't think many docs recommend psychological testing.

["It has often and confidently been asserted, that man's origin can never be known.]
But ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."

           -Charles Darwin
             1871

Well, if Chad likes his doctor, that is great!  I am glad he found a good doc and that is all the matters is that he is giving him the right meds. 
I thought the question he asked on this thread was about the MMPI test being given in response to a person having CH.
What Chad could do, and I am sure it would clear everything up for him, is simply ask the neuro WHY he wanted him to take the MMPI test.
As a young woman one of the first doctors I saw for CH gave me a prescription for a psychologist--no medicines, no headache diagnosis, told me the pain was in my head.  That may have biased my response (but not by much).
It is not really an unknown concept that some doctors get frustrated trying to treat such a malady.
It is in the literature that some in the medical community have tried to pinpoint whether CHers have certain personality or coping weaknesses that "cause" or "contribute" to these headaches or that, on a different note, effect how the person "experiences" the headaches.
Although if someone broke their leg, and said, "wow this hurts real bad", noone would undertake studies probing into that person's personality structure, in any way trying to connect personality makeup with the experience or existence of the pain from their broken leg.
Chad's doctor does not sound like he is among those who doubt the experience of CH sufferers or blame them (although there are those out there--I have run into them in the medical community even those who have reached the ever so elevated level of neurologist).
Chad's doctor sounds like a very good doctor, especially since he prescribes oxygen.  I do think when a doc recommends something like an MMPI test they should probably explain why they are recommending the person take it.  If they choose not to offer an explanation to the person and the person posts about it on a thread, then those responding on the thread are free to offer opinions based on their own experience, etc. as to why the doctor is wanting the person to take the test.

I just looked over some of the questions from the MMPI test listed here on this thread.
Now one item was "I see people and animals that are not there" lol!  That is funny.
Or "I think my father was a good man" lol!
Can you see how if someone is plagued by a painful headache disorder, it won't matter much if they see animals that are not there or not or fairies floating in the air or not--it will still hurt a lot!

Anyway, I hope everyone has a good Christmas!  And Chad your doc sounds good, sometimes it is very hard to get an oxygen prescription so I would definitely stay with your doctor, he is trying his best.

Layla328 wrote on Dec 24^th, 2009 at 12:10pm:

I just looked over some of the questions from the MMPI test listed here on this thread. Now one item was "I see people and animals that are not there" lol!  That is funny. Or "I think my father was a good man" lol! Can you see how if someone is plagued by a painful headache disorder, it won't matter much if they see animals that are not there or not or fairies floating in the air or not--it will still hurt a lot! Anyway, I hope everyone has a good Christmas!  And Chad your doc sounds good, sometimes it is very hard to get an oxygen prescription so I would definitely stay with your doctor, he is trying his best.

Starlight, I do plan on asking my doc why for the test.  He did tell me something when I was at my visit, but I was overwhelmed with everything else that I kind of ignored what he said.  That's why I asked here if anybody has had this done.  Putting that test to the side, he approved and encourages me to use rc seeds.   When I said about using LSA as a prevent, his eyes lit up and was very supportive about using that therapy compared to my first neuro who just laughed and rolled his eyes.  All I wanted from this doc was O2 and I got it, plus support on my own personal therapy being the seeds.  He even gave me a rundown on how to use them when cycles are coming.  I was simply shocked and so happy, words can't even explain.  Again, if the MMPI test is the only thing I disagree with, that's not too shabby, right?

I could possibly see a doctor wanting to know that a person is mentally stable before recommending the use of a drug that can be, at higher dosages, hallucinogenic. Unstable people are a bad trip waiting to happen.

That is definitely a good doctor.  He sounds very supportive.  And sounds like he is supplying you with the best care possible.
All I was saying is the test sounds like a waste o' time. 
I doubt it can tell if people are mentally unstable anyway,
as most people who see things that aren't there don't realize that they aren't really there, etc.  Psychological tests have their limits.
Some of the craziest, least resilient people I know come out totally "sane" on tests like that.

#44 Most of the time my head seems to hurt all over--well, there was a time I would have said yes to that except only part of the head hurting most of the time.
I think that would have been one point used against me.
Those clever psychologists.
But no I don't like mechanics magazines. 

#48:  Sometimes when I am talking to people I am bothered by hearing very queer things--that would really depend on who I am talking to (sorry couldn't resist.)

Most of these statements are kind of transparent--I am surprised if a person, crazy though they may be, would not be able to just check off the "right" answers instead of the ones that make them look "crazy" but I do not know what "drop a hanky means"?
It might be fun to take the test just for fun.
I am sure it is harmless and maybe funny or fun to take.

starlight , Yeah that test at a party would be a hoot, fer sartin, but not as a recorded life history. A document that would follow one around for life.

I can't make out that hanky question either, but I absolutely throw paper towels on the floor in that part of soaking them instantly with a right side blower, and need another shortly there after.

Basically I don't see much that test can say about a patient with CH.

Once I saw a head shrink, but no sooner did I and I knew it was him that needed the help and not me.

The guy was rainbow gay, and so unlike me, I considered his silk scarf collection all tied to a floor lamp, and the rest of 'her' mannerisms a moot point compared to me.

Now maybe if you sent me to a female head shrink I might consider that normal. I even asked if there was anything I could do help him..

Maybe that sort of thing would even pass muster in some city, but it won't a bit in rural New England.

I left never to return and left a script for something on her table too.

I don't understand the resistance to this test. It is a well known, scientifically proven resource. Why all the paranoia?

Here are some listed uses for the test:

Numerous Uses
The MMPI-2 test’s contemporary normative sample and extensive research base help make it the gold standard in assessment for a wide variety of settings. The test can be used to help:

Assess major symptoms of social and personal maladjustment.
Identify suitable candidates for high-risk public safety positions.
Support classification, treatment, and management decisions in criminal justice and correctional settings.
Give a strong empirical foundation for a clinician's expert testimony.
Assess medical patients and design effective treatment strategies, including chronic pain management.
Evaluate participants in substance abuse programs and select appropriate treatment approaches.
Support college and career counseling recommendations.
Provide valuable insight for marriage and family counseling.

What is the problem? [smiley=confused.gif]

Well, I'll try to answer that KJ.

In my experience, asking a crazy person if they are crazy doesn't work.  I've known people who see/hear or believe people are there who aren't, etc.  They don't know the people aren't there.  They don't know they are crazy.
I would probably come out with it saying I was not "perfect", sure I can see that from the statements, but I'll tell you I know I am resilient, never was nasty to anyone b/c of the head pain, more than I can say for most people I know if they were to have the CH regardless of what they would get on the test.
Test of character comes when faced with a situation.  Can it be found on a test, not sure, but I would say no, probably the test could find if someone was depressive, or generally dissatisfied in life, or suffered from generalized identity confusion (I am just scanning the questions and inferring).  Not sure test could figure out how one would respond to head pain.

Something a psychologist friend of mine told me a long time ago is that if you think you are crazy, you probably aren't. It's the ones sitting in the middle of Main Street, stark naked, whistling Dixie and believing themselves completely normal for doing so that you have to watch out for.

I wouldn't take the test unless it was mandated.  For one simple reason, if by chance a *diagnosis* came up, it would be part of your permanent records.

Olus, we are also talking about the MMPI, not the MMPI 2.

If you have any interest in the MMPI, read this article thru the secton on "content scales". Beyond that point it gets into technial stuff which muddies the pond until you have knowledge of test construction, etc.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

IMO some doctors are crazy, and I don't like what they might say in a record anything that can and will follow you around forever as if written in stone.

If you read back, you will see I saw a shrink, who then and now I see as crazy as a bed bug. Had I allowed that fool to record much of anything about me it would be following me around to this day.

That doc took himself for a women, and if you ask me that's nuts.. and more so on duty, on the job..

Is it not?

re. #63: It does not! Your bad experience does not define the entire field of mental health workers. However, your focusing on this, very personal issue, helps to distort the whole issue of this thread: Of what value is the MMPI to our original writer?

Our society is full of people of different sexual oriedntatons which you may find offensive or strange--but that orientation does not prevent them from being effective in their profession/field/job.

Bob, In my original post i said there this specific test was of no use to the OP. This test is of no use to assist a sane or a insane CHer.

In my personal case I see no way a doctor who pretends to be what he is not as sane.. Sorry, someone that lives in a pretend world is not fit to say what and what is not normal.

Since then I can not always tell who is and who is not normal, the best thing for me is to never submit to any such test.

With that said, anyone with CH who does take this test sane or not, is likely to get it said anyone with CH is insane and the ch is not real. That would upset me.

I don't need to be hit with a sledge hammer to know it will hurt..

CH is a very REAL disorder. 
Some docs are frustrated treating the disorder (including some--and I say SOME neuros).  I have heard things said about CHers before that were not nice, in fact, ridiculous.
With mental health field--some are great, some are not.  Jaded though I may be, still, I think it is worthwhile to be wary of someone who wants to "get inside your head" IF they themselves are crazy, totally unrealistic, very narcissistic, or entirely convinced of their own sanity.  Those who believe they are "completely sane" or much more well-adjusted than others are either 1) correct or 2) very narcissistic.  One or the other--choose wisely.

Well I ain't very pretty, so that ends being  narcissistic fer me I guess.

Since I got no feathers and can't fly, I'ld have to say I am sane.

Being a blue collar slob, I don't see any rainbow gay flusie being able to indentify with my way of life any more than I can with 'it's".

Most definatley I do not wear bright color slik scarfs like my wife does. So I just can't see how someone like that can do much for me. Chances are I could do a lot more for them.

Like fix their cars, power tools, plumbing, wiring, and even build something in wood.

I worked with gays before and had no problems that way, but being diagnoised by one for anything medical isn't going to happen, unless they are refined, so I can't tell. The one I mentioned was a full blown bloomer, 60 something going on 22.

Quite the display.

There is a fear I have as I do not do things in a socially accepted modern way, and do not want to be branded.

I am considered independant by others who are also, but I excceed their standards.. One example might be Christmass dinner where just the turkey was store bought. The rest was pretty 'normal' to New England, except I had grown and made nearly every other item, from maple syrup to punkin pie...

Maybe next time the turkey won't even be store bought. This isn't the norm these days.. It doesn't make me fruit cake nutty either.

Mac,

You sound like a nice enough guy who just couldn't relate to the therapist--it was probably more that the guy just wasn't someone you could relate to than anything to do with his being gay.  I am sure that there are gay therapists who are very good.  It just sounds like it was a case where you felt the therapist was not very down to earth (that is the sense I am getting from what you wrote). 
The thing that I DO NOT like in a therapist, psychologist whatever, is a judgemental person!!!!  That will get me to never come back.  That and the type of person who claims to KNOW what you are really thinking, feeling, etc. regardless of what you just told them you were really thinking, feeling, etc.
Many gay people have had a very difficult time, because many people will judge them (including sometimes people in their own family), because they are gay (and I believe that is just how they were born, it really is not a choice in the VAST majority of instances.)  So, a gay person could be a good therapist, because their own life experiences could causes them to be less judgemental of others.  But again, that is not always the case either.  But it certainly could be true in some cases.

yeah, I worked with gay men and women, some for years, but they knew i wasn't, and were not flamboyant. This guy was more than flamboyant. I am sure you know how some gay men over do being a woman, with every detail of body language.

I consider this job to be one where being judgemental is nature of the job, and so there was no way he could relate to a 100% red blooded American male, who earned a living at that time as a mechanic, farm hand of a sort and contractor in construction, unless maybe I asked him for a date. And that wasn't going to happen!

This guy was doing pirouettes around his silk scaf lamp pole, which is fine by me in a stripper joint with real girls. LOL

Hey I am a cheap biker tramp what can I say?

With that cat out of the bag, it is sometimes hard coming here where everyone has a higher education than I. But then I have been places where many of you haven't, and seen things many never will, and can do things almost no other modern man can, like start fires with 2 sticks, so it works out sort of.

I don't expect to be related too well, and have nothing much to prove. The why I come here at all, is to try to get others in o2.

Mac_Muz wrote on Dec 30^th, 2009 at 8:01pm:

yeah, I worked with gay men and women, some for years, but they knew i wasn't, and were not flamboyant. This guy was more than flamboyant. I am sure you know how some gay men over do being a woman, with every detail of body language. I consider this job to be one where being judgemental is nature of the job, and so there was no way he could relate to a 100% red blooded American male, who earned a living at that time as a mechanic, farm hand of a sort and contractor in construction, unless maybe I asked him for a date. And that wasn't going to happen! This guy was doing pirouettes around his silk scaf lamp pole, which is fine by me in a stripper joint with real girls. LOL Hey I am a cheap biker tramp what can I say? With that cat out of the bag, it is sometimes hard coming here where everyone has a higher education than I. But then I have been places where many of you haven't, and seen things many never will, and can do things almost no other modern man can, like start fires with 2 sticks, so it works out sort of. I don't expect to be related too well, and have nothing much to prove. The why I come here at all, is to try to get others in o2.

Your homophobic rants are getting old.

               Potter

Mac.....we have some highly respected gay's that have been here for years and helped many people in many ways. So before this thread goes any further south, I am gonna lock this thread.  I think that we have hashed out the MMPI test as far as it needs to go.