Hi all!!.  I know I havent been around much but I need some help please!  I have used O2  treatments to abort my ch's for maybe the last 4 or 5 yrs and have never had a prob with it not being effective.  Now all of a sudden for about the past month or so the O2 doesnt seem to hardly do anything to abort...Im using more trex shots and they go quickly.  I dont know what I am doing wrong if anything...if its the mask or if i have become immune to it now...can we even become immune to the o2 therapy???  I dont know I am just at a loss right now and in high cycle...barely sleep...crabby aall the time...etc.  Any suggestion, thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated and helpful

I really hope and pray all of you are well and have had a blessed Christmas

Thanks again...Tess

What flow rate are you using Tess?

...and what kind of mask?

no specific flow rate...Im using the cluster mask(the orange one if that helps) with the demand valve

Wow. That's just what you need. I got nothin' else. Maybe try hyperventilating a little harder?

yeah thats what ive been trying to do..plus pushing the button for more flow...it seems the last time i got tanks is when it started...i was thinking i got a bad batch of tanks lol...but i have been replenished and still hardly working...even b4 when i was in high cycle getting hit so often and hard like k 8 to 10's the o2 worked and quickly but not now...trying to find differences from then and now but cant
oh well
Thank you so much Brew!

This happened to me last year while in cycle. Batch suggested my PH level may be off, and this can effect the bodies uptake of O2.

First I got a suppliment of Calcium, Magnesium, & zinc. Then went to START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE and got test strips.

The suppliment did work and the O2 began working once again.

Good luck, Don

I'm glad Don remembered that, I can never remember the details of the PH stuff but apparently it can make a big difference.

Are you currently using a prevent while in cycle? Verapamil, Lithium, Topomax? If not it's certainly worth talking to your doc about. Like Don said, if you do start the Magnesium and Zinc it's important you do the calcium too, especially the ladies, as Magnesium can leech the calcium outta you. Good luck, high cycles suck. :'(

Joe

oh thank you so much Don...I am going to try that...how much of the calcium and mag should i take...just bottle directions or something ddifferent?

hi Joe...yes all i am on is verapamil and zonisamide...never been on this mix b4 but thus far any cocktail i have tried hasnt worked as a prevent

I do a year round supplement, have for many years and am convinced it's had a positive effect on my cycles. I use 250 mg a day of magnesium, (warning, it can keep you a little loose!!!)100 mg of Vitamin B-2, then a 2 a day calcium/D supplement that I believe is 1000 or 1500 mg each.

If all else fails talk to your doctor about the lithium/verapamil combo. It's worked for some when all else has failed. NOT something you try on your own as it requires a little bit of monitoring and blood work.

Joe

I bought the CVS brand with Calcium-333mg, Magnesium-133mg, Zinc-5mg, and take twice per day.

Hope it helps, Don

THANKS SO MUCH GUYS i REALLY APPRECIATE THE HELP!1  AS SOON AS I HAVE THE CASH IM GOING TO GET THOSE SUPPLEMENTS
I AM IN CHAT IF ANYONE WANTS TO JOIN ME

Tess, o2 worked for me for 2 years than one day nothing.  I had changed nothing in the way I administered.  I just chalked it up to the beast morphing once again.  Lithium used to work for me also then it quit.  A few other meds quit on me also.  I just figured that is how the beast operates on me.  I had never heard of the vitamin combo helping before.  Thanks for posting that guys!!!

Tess, Been having CH for over 30 years. Treating them with O2 for 25 years. The O2 is like magic! But, I go through periods of time when the O2 doesn't work. When that happens I put on my running shoes and do wind sprints until I couldn't possibly breath any heavier. I then hit the O2 again. No regulator and I take as much in with each breath as possible and expell as much as I possibly can before taking the next deep breath of O2. This usually works but now as fast as the O2 usually works.
These periods pass, and then the O2 works like magic again. Hang in there, your time will pass too.

Tess, Been having CH for over 30 years. Treating them with O2 for 25 years. The O2 is like magic! But, I go through periods of time when the O2 doesn't work. When that happens I put on my running shoes and do wind sprints until I couldn't possibly breath any heavier. I then hit the O2 again. No regulator and I take as much in with each breath as possible and expell as much as I possibly can before taking the next deep breath of O2. This usually works but not as fast as the O2 usually works.
These periods pass, and then the O2 works like magic again. Hang in there, your time will pass too.

Thank you Novell and all who have replied...I greatly appreciate all your words and it helps alot!!

Bless you all!
Tess

Tess,

I really don't have any advice to add, just that I hope you find relief soon.

Jeannie

Could someone please remind me (and Tess) the right O2 level?  I don't remember what it is--but it has to be a certain level to work and it is quite high.  It sounds like you have the right mask--for anyone reading--it needs to be a nonrebreather mask.
Tess, O2 works for me IF it is the right level EXCEPT when I am peaking in the cycle.
A few suggestions.  You need to start the O2 as quick as possible when you feel the headache coming on--at night this can be more difficult when you are awakened by the headaches--but you need to spring out of bed and get to the O2 as soon as possible nonetheless.
Also--and this is important--when you administer the O2 it oftentimes is extremely helpful to be in a sitting position with your head and neck bent downwards.  So, in other words, you are looking at the floor while administering the O2 not straight down at it but almost.  If I do not go into this position the O2 DOES NOT work nearly as well.  I do not know why this works, but this is the recommended position. 
Also, when things have gotten not as great with the O2, I have tried inhaling O2 while sipping black coffee--obviously not at the same time--inhale O2 for a while, remove mask, sip black coffee--this is oftentimes VERY effective, and even when done at night, although I am sensitive to coffee I have had no problems falling asleep afterwards.
I would not give up on the O2 just make sure the flow is correct, etc.
Good luck with everything!

starlight , I can't help in CFM or with a mask as I don't use a regulator that does CFM or Liters per minute. My regulator is for psi and I use 45 there.

No mask either a tiorch grip for welding torches

(because i am a man   ::))

Thanks Mac--guess we use different kinds of tanks lol!
I just read how Tess has tank where the level can be adjusted--problem is some tanks don't go up high enough--I had that happen to me once.  Anyway, been out of cycle for a while and can't remember the level.  Oh wait, there's an O2 button on the left let me look there.

OK, looked on the button at left.  Tess you need a flow rate of at least 15 LPM (that sounds right on).  Problem is some regulators don't go up that high--I've had one that didn't--not fun b/c it doesn't work and you wonder why it isn't working.  Anyway, hope any of this info helps.  Sometimes you get the O2 and think great! but little do you know you are not getting the right flow.  Good luck!

Layla328 wrote on Dec 30^th, 2009 at 10:17pm:

OK, looked on the button at left.  Tess you need a flow rate of at least 15 LPM (that sounds right on).  Problem is some regulators don't go up that high--I've had one that didn't--not fun b/c it doesn't work and you wonder why it isn't working.  Anyway, hope any of this info helps.  Sometimes you get the O2 and think great! but little do you know you are not getting the right flow.  Good luck!

In reply #3 above, Tess said she has a demand valve regulator. She gets as much as she demands, and it shuts off in between breaths - like a scuba diver. Flow rate and an inadequate regulator are not the issue.

There is a wide variety of tanks, but the regulator is most important. Which tank is least important.

Masks seen to break down to the wrong ones, the right ones, ir a mouth piece, since a mask of any kind may cause pressure on one's face which may not be welcome pressure.

Or men with beards may find masks leak, and will not seal.

How complex depends on the users wishes.

Tess, get the Calicum Citrate supplement. Pete had me on the plain calicum and then switched me and the Calicum Citrate worked a lot better. I just take two or three when I think about it.. (with lots of water).

PM him if you have any questions -- He can get real "detailed" with his instructions.

And try standing up to hyperventilate with the demand valve (Pete has me doing that and it seems to work better). If you get dizzy sit down, but try that and see if it helps.

Hope you get some relief soon..

:-*

Tess,

As near as I can figure, the dosage for the calcium citrate tablets with vitamin D, magnesium, and zinc works out to one table for every 50 lbs of weight.  I start at three tablets with lunch and up the dosage to four tablets later that night or the next day if there's no change in my cluster headache frequency or my response to oxygen therapy is still slow. 

Lemonade is a good chaser.  As an alkaline forming food stuff like lots of green veggies, lemonade appears to boost my pH and end the high cycle within a day...

Starlight, 

25 liters/minute is minimum effective oxygen flow rate for most folks to achieve a rapid cluster headache abort (7 minutes or less).  Higher flow rates work even faster.   If I catch an oncoming attack early, my abort times are less than two minutes and sometimes less than one...

We get all the oxygen needed when breathing 100% oxygen at flow rates of 7 to 9 liters/minute. Unfortunately, what these flow rates cannot do, when administered with a constant flow oxygen regulator and non-rebreathing mask, is cast off enough CO2 to keep it at a normal level. 

As an elevated arterial CO2 level almost completely negates the beneficial vasoconstrictive properties of oxygen therapy, we need a level of lung ventilation (flow rate) that keeps CO2 levels normal, and if we want a faster abort, we need a high enough oxygen flow rate to bring arterial CO2 levels below normal, i.e., hyperventilation.

An oxygen flow rate of 25 liters/minute or higher may sound like a high flow rate, but there are a number of studies done on respiration rates of first responders like firemen and CBR experts wearing full face masks and breathing compressed air that show just walking around (or doing a slow cluster two-step shuffle) demands a minute volume (the volume of air inhaled in one minute) of 25 minute-liters just to maintain normal arterial CO2 levels... 

When these same first responders climbed two or more flights of stairs at a rapid pace, the minute volume jumped to 57 liters...  Again, that level of lung ventilation was what their bodies demanded just to maintain normal CO2 levels...

If you're a jogger, you chop wood, or do any strenuous work for more than a minute, your minute volume of lung ventilation is likely up around 60 minute-liters or more during these activities...

To put this in perspective, the minute volumes of lung ventilation in the examples above are "Normal" for these levels of physical activity.  That means in order to hyperventilate, (ventilating the lungs at a higher rate than normal) you need a higher minute volume than normal.

Get the picture yet?  If you've doing the cluster two-step or seated and rocking back a forth while attempting oxygen therapy, you'll need a minute volume of lung ventilation of 25 minute-liters (an oxygen flow rate of 25 liters/minute) just to maintain normal CO2 levels...  And if you want a faster abort, you'll need to hyperventilate with a higher minute volume of lung ventilation...  an oxygen flow rate greater than 25 liters/minute.

For the "Nervous Nellies," this method of oxygen therapy results in lower total oxygen exposure times than the hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) currently approved for diving sickness and other medical purposes...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Batch,

Thanks for the info--I can't remember the flow rate I was using last time, been out of cycle for a while, I don't think it was that high and, although it was most times effective, it was definitely taking me longer than a minute to get rid of the headaches!  This is very useful information to me and I am sure many others b/c next time I will know to go up that high.  Thank you!

Hey thanks everyone and Batch too for all the info...it is so helpful.  I am going to get my supplements this fri so hopefully that will help me as well as it has help you all

Thanks again and PFDAN TO US ALL!!

Tess

I've had cycles when O2 didn't seem to be as effective at aborting as other cycles. Thankfully it wasn't that I became "immune" and did again work for me during a later cycle, or even later in the same cycle. Batch is the O2 oracle on this stuff.

I do 10-15 lpm and generally abort within 10 minutes. If it doesn't work by 15 minutes and I'm flipping the cap and loading on an imitrex into the injector if I've got somewhere to be. My reg actually only goes to 15.....

seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2010 at 5:51am:

I've had cycles when O2 didn't seem to be as effective at aborting as other cycles. ......................... ................................. My reg actually only goes to 15.....

That may be your answer. Some people get great results with reliable five minute aborts as low as 7 lpm, but many of us need 25 lpm or more much for fast, reliable aborts. The difference is astounding for many of us who thought that "O2 doesn't work for me."

Speed is important to me because I tend to ramp up the pain very, very fast.