hey all
i just got my non breather mask and o2 delivered today :) and waitng on the proper regulator tomorrow morn! i have a question and i did read the o2 on left but want to make sure! question... when i start o2 therapy and im breathing in the mask 15 -25 lpm's when exhaling do i just exhale in  the mask (just breathing,hyperventilating) in and out with the mask not taking off to exhale? sorry if im all over the place just want to do the right thing! thanks all!

I'm sure you're all squared away now but for anyone else reading the question....the Non Re Breather has the one way valves that let the exhaled air out. You just huff away fro all you're worth keeping the mask on your face.

Joe

PS:  A point we bring up now and then is a good reminder.....not a bad idea to cust the strap off of your mask and just hold it against your face. The concern is you abort the attack....fall asleep...the tank runs dry and it's POSSIBLE you could suffocate.....not REAL likely but a good idea to cut the strap just in case!

And neither application of the O₂ptimask - mask or mouthpiece - has any kind of worthless strap attached to it! One more reason to get one and GET IT NOW!

thanks guys got the optimask no meessing around here!! :)
thanks for all the support kinda new to all of this and couldnt or wouldnt want to do it with out u guys!!!
cheers!

A tip from an old swimmer - remember to fully exhale - push out the stale air from your lungs b4 getting a hit of the fresh stuff.  O2 has been good to a lot of us.  15 lpm or so is usually enough for me to knock out a hit.  I wish that the O2 works well for you.

Jon 

The 'optimask' is absolutley designed to exhale with the mask on. This is how I use it. Actually a standard non-rebreather is supposed to be the same.

Although NOT advisable, I have a strap rigged on my O2PTImask so if I need to load up a shot I have both hands free and don't need to stop the O2. The O2 has worked during this critical time.

Kick the beast in the butt.
Don

Anthony,

If you want the fastest abort possible with a 0-25 liter/minute regulator, crank that puppy up to 25 liters/minute and leave it there until you get the abort.

If you start getting re-attacks (another cluster headache attack 15 to 45 minutes after a successful abort), use the same procedure, but when you get the abort, throttle back to 12-15 liters/minute and stay on the oxygen to bring your total oxygen time up to 15 minutes... 

If the re-attacks persist, bring the total oxygen time up to 20 minutes.  From the data we've collected, re-attacks tend to go away by the 3rd to 4th week of this therapy.

Jon was spot on with his comment on breathing technique.  What I teach is to perform the following standing or seated upright to give your diaphragm a full range of motion:

Exhale as completely as possible and when you think there's nothing left, do an abdominal crunch and coughing maneuver but hold it for a 2-count, then tip your head and shoulders back and suck in as much oxygen as possible.  With a 3-liter bag on your O2PTIMASK™ kit, you'll need to adjust your respiration rate to match the 25 liter/minute flow rate.

If you do the exhale technique correctly, you'll hear a wheezing sound as you squeeze more of the residual breath from your lungs.

If you use the entire technique properly, you should start feeling the effects of paresthesia (a slight tingling of the fingertips, back of the neck, and slight dizziness) after 4 to 5 breaths.  This is the best indication you've hyperventilated long enough to push your system into respiratory alkalosis with an arterial pH >7.45.  Keep this up until the pain is gone.

You'll find your abort times will vary directly with the intensity of your attacks.  In other words a Kip-4 will abort in a much shorter time than a kip-7 with this method of oxygen therapy.  This is the best reason to jump on your oxygen as soon as you feel an attack approaching...

I use much higher flow rates and now abort 90% of my attacks in less than 2 minutes with 30% of these in less than 1 minute... 

I also keep my pH under control using 3 to 4 calcium citrate tablets with vitamin D, magnesium, and zinc along with a couple big glasses of fresh lemonade a day as my preventatives...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Unfortunately, 25 lpm won't keep up if I really breathe deep and fast - which is by far the most effective method for me. At 25 lpm, I have to fight to keep my respiration rate slow.

Two ways I have dealt with not having a demand valve regulator:

- Two 25 lpm regulator/tank rigs connected with a "T" in the mask tubing.

- A welding regulator - same thread as large medical O2 tanks. (Also have an adapter to connect it to little medical E size tanks)

Marc

i just finally got my regulator for o2 tank they only had one with max of 15lpm hope it will be good enough for now never tried o2 so im happy i have this at the very least!

Anthony,

A flow rate of 15 liters/minute "works" if you want to call it that, and it's far better than no oxygen at all...  It will just take three times longer to abort your attacks than if you had a flow rate that supports hyperventilation.

If that's the flow rate your doctor prescribed, you've got  a couple options...  call him on Monday and ask to have the flow rate upped to 25 liters/minute, or go out and buy a good high flow rate oxygen regulator of your own.  What's the price of pain?

Take Care,

V/R, Batch

I don't understand something. You up the flow by 67% and cut the abort time by 200%? The math doesn't add up for this ol' country boy.

I'm not real smart on the details, but since I got the demand valve and started hyperventaling like Batch told me to do and do the ph thingy I just know I can abort real quick and without drugs (about 90% of the time or more - I don't really keep up with it any more).

When I travel without O2, I carry my cafergot and it takes forever to work. I usually chug a Red Bull along with it and it still seems to take forever. With the O2, I just don't waste time with the pain and I'm good to go in a couple of minutes...

Now I've been on O2 since back in the 90s and have had "fairly" good success with it (sometimes it gave me something to do while the meds worked). But the high flow rate has been a godsend. I'm a total convert. Where I was spending 10-15 minutes sucking O2 - I now abort in 2-5 minutes (depending on the intensisty of the hit and how soon I get to the O2). BIG DIFFERENCE.

I don't really care about statistics or numbers or any of that stuff (I'll leave that to better minds than mine) - I just know it works for me and thank goodness for that.

Off soapbox

Hugs BD :-*

That's not soapbox, Barb. And I don't doubt for a minute that it works. I'm just trying to understand.

hey all!
so where could i find a "demand valve" regulator? I have a very large tank of o2 like the iron m tank but my reg goes to max of 15lpm hopeing to get one to 25 on monday the o2 company had to order it?
thanks
anthony

Brew,

You know how I feel about it already, but I'll say it again:

In my experience, for my CH's, I actually do use less total O2 at very, very high flows. The "why" I'll leave for others to figure out - perhaps Pete is on the right track. For many years I argued here on the board that I was already breathing 100% O2 at 15 lpm, so I couldn't see how breathing more would help - you can't get 120% concentration!

My breathing rate at 15 lpm, O2 is just a step above of worthless for ME. Killing a hit is a 15-20 minute battle with agony.

At 25 lpm I see a very big improvement, but I still cannot breathe fast and deep with that limit.

At really, really high breathing rates the world becomes a wonderful place in 3-6 minutes because the pain level never has an opportunity to climb. I don't even need to continue for a few extra minutes - just wham, bam and done.

I've had 13+ years of being chronic to test and play with this and I know what does the trick and what doesn't for ME. I'm in no way trying to say that others aren't getting phenomenal results with lower breathing rates.

Both you and Bob P have always correctly pointed out that the breathing rate supported by 8-15 lpm works very, very well for some people. I can only say: That's great, keep doing it!

I post my opinion often simply to remind people not to give up on O2 if lower flow rates don't work. I could get depressed thinking of all of the wasted hours in agony that I endured because I didn't know........

Marc

thanks for ALL the input! as i sadi i am brand new to O2 and all the info could be overwhelming! "breathing rate" question... as i am breathing with my non breather mask is it best to hyperventilate breathing fast and deep? sorr y if i seem a bit lost but i want to get it rite!
thanks all!!

Marc - I know how you feel about it. Feelings have nothing to do with my not understanding how upping the flow by 67% can cut abort time by 200%. If biochemistry weren't involved, it would look like the numbers are cooked a little. But I don't pretend to understand the biochemistry part.

If I huff o2 fast as I can breathe and the bag stays full at all times what's the difference between 15lpm and 25lpm? 

             Potter

Potter wrote on Jan 9^th, 2010 at 11:53am:

If I huff o2 fast as I can breathe and the bag stays full at all times what's the difference between 15lpm and 25lpm?               Potter

None.

Only time it makes a difference is if an individual can "out run" the bag at 15lpm. I can....so can many others. Heck...I can out run it at 25 easily.

sorry guys but im a bit confused  what do u mean out running the bag? i just got o2 and its a bit intimidating to start with! wanna get it right!
thanx

If you are using the O2 and the bag on the rebreather mask flattens out causing you to wait for the next breath, you are out running the flow rate.

anthony g wrote on Jan 9^th, 2010 at 12:21pm:

sorry guys but im a bit confused  what do u mean out running the bag? i just got o2 and its a bit intimidating to start with! wanna get it right! thanx

Huff, the stuff as fast and as hard as you can. If the bag goes flat you've outrun the lpm, turn up the volume till the bag stays full.

         Potter

Potter wrote on Jan 9^th, 2010 at 12:26pm:

anthony g wrote on Jan 9th, 2010 at 12:21pm: sorry guys but im a bit confused  what do u mean out running the bag? i just got o2 and its a bit intimidating to start with! wanna get it right! thanx Huff, the stuff as fast and as hard as you can. If the bag goes flat you've outrun the lpm, turn up the volume till the bag stays full.          Potter

Bingo

(least enough to keep the bag from going flat)

Brew wrote on Jan 9^th, 2010 at 11:32am:

Marc - I know how you feel about it. Feelings have nothing to do with my not understanding how upping the flow by 67% can cut abort time by 200%. If biochemistry weren't involved, it would look like the numbers are cooked a little. But I don't pretend to understand the biochemistry part.

Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully and said "In my experience......" in lieu of "how I feel" about it. If my direct experience seems bogus, there isn't much I can say.

I suppose it's like Verapamil working well for some folks at 120mg to 240mg........... 

I will flatly say that my abort times dropped from 15-20 minutes (with major pain) to 3-6 minutes without appreciable pain - very reliably.

I got stuck using my old 15 lpm regulator for one hit last week when my main regulator died. I was reminded of what a real hit feels like and I can assure you that I won't let that happen again.

I don't tend to jump on bandwagons until I have seen repeated results over long time spans, then tried doing without whatever remedy I'm testing. I'm driving this one!

Best,
Marc

Anthony,

I can see why you're confussed... we're used to this stuff and don't really explain well. (Well, I don't know enough to explain anything except it works for me).

The demand valve is a little different from the non-rebreather mask. It hooks up to the tank differently (or mine does) and YOU regulate the flow with your breathing. Depending on how deeply you breathe you can get up to 60 liters a minute with it.

The bad news is - it's rather expensive (in my case it was worth more than gold because of the results I got, but not for everyone).

We all REACT different to most everything including O2. As Marc said, some people are fine with 8-10 liters where some of us require more. You just have to figure out where you fall and what works for YOU. We can only tell you how and what works for US.

Now, if we confuse you - just say so and we'll try to UNconfuse things. We want you OUT OF PAIN and as quickly as possible. That's the purpose of this board.

Hugs BD :-*