There is this guy in Minnesota with a device to detect dark matter, but the problem being…
Dark matter passes through his machine and has for the last five years, without it being detected because you can’t detect dark matter with a dark matter detector?????????
Take a step back.
Creation with the big bang, inflation, dark matter and so on till the universe has begun and is still big banging now with…
“Dark energy” (that’s the new one.)
Cosmologists and mathematicians are spinning a web of how we began from nothing.
As they find problems to their theories they manufacture a new theory of nothing.

Nothing before the big bang… but it went bang.
It expanded with inflation … (That’s a word we’re all familiar with)
Dark matter appeared… but we can’t see it, detect it or really know its there.
Dark energy…to hold it all together or else dark matter wouldn’t work, (Even though we don’t know it’s there anyway).
Answer…
What on earth are they teaching our kids at school nowadays?
What’s wrong with a bit of corporate corruption (sounds familiar) Jobs going at a bank near you.
Sport or sex education you know the type, when you thought she wouldn’t get pregnant if you inhaled the cigarette and were standing up…
Those were the days eh!

Get back on that treadmill Colin.  It'll clear your mind of such matters.   ;D

It's cos they are all scared of Genesis chapter 1 :-/

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wrote on Mar 12^th, 2010 at 7:37pm:

in Minnesota with a device to detect dark matter,

Sounds like the Cryogenic Dark Matter Search (CDMS).  2400 ft under in the Soudan Mine in northeast MN, shielded and fractions of a degree above absolute zero so that detected movement would be due to an external force. 

The Sloan Digital Sky Survey (SDSS) has helped with a first composite portrait of a dark matter halo from galaxy gravitational lensing.  With clusters, lensing has outlined the halos of dark matter.

Check: Bullet Cluster, Aug. 21, 2006.



The DoE, NASA, and NSF established a Dark Energy Task Force in 2005, with so far four general methods of tracking.  Projects maybe 2014 and 15.

Gone are the days when advancing scientific theory meant that you had to first root it in some basis of substantiated fact.

Would not the same principals employed in advancing this theory be employable in advancing the theory of existence of a higher omnipotent being?

Does this qualify as the anti-science of scientific principal? 

How much public green matter is absorbed in the dark matter every day?   

Inquiring minds want to know.

burnt-toast
(Tom)

It was noticed in 1933 by Fritz Zwicky in the Coma cluster, objects rotating at a speed exceeding the limits of gravity will escape the gravitatiional pull but do not, mass is missing.  In a paper he simply coined the phrase (Ger.) dunkle materie, or dark matter.  This phenomenon was also noticed in the Virgo cluster by Sinclair Smith, then all more or less ignored for 35 years.


Spinning around the Milky Way at about 1/2 million mph should have flung us out, which hasn't been explained away.  Dark matter is simply yet to be discounted.

More recently gravitational lensing of clusters has appeared to use the mass and tried to outline it.  Mysterious. 

Headache Boy uk wrote on Mar 12^th, 2010 at 8:41pm:

It's cos they are all scared of Genesis chapter 1 :-/

If you take the Bible literally as a science text, you must believe that the Earth is fixed in space and cannot move, it is flat, has edges, and and has 4 corners.  You must also believe that the sun orbits the Earth. Do you?

Quote:

If you take the Bible literally as a science text, you must believe that the Earth is fixed in space and cannot move, it is flat, has edges, and and has 4 corners.  You must also believe that the sun orbits the Earth. Do you?

ain't none of that stuff in my Bible. except a reference to 4 corners , any way the Bible is more a reference  on how to live our lives in a relationship with God not a set of rules to be taken literally, I can see my self getting in way over my head here not exactly a theologist .
wot i meant was maybe science is trying to go abit too deep and should just except what is.

Nigel

Headache Boy uk wrote on Mar 14^th, 2010 at 10:15pm:

just except what is.

With normal matter only 5% and estimates like dark matter making up 23% of the universe and dark energy 72%, that leaves too much discovery unknown to be untried.

If challenging Newtonian gravity is looked at instead of dark matter, we've been pretty satisfied with it.  Efforts of Modified Newtonian Dynamics has produced a model, but it's not a theory.  Suggesting new physics must first satisfy all the existing data to be taken seriously, and make new predictions tested by experiment.  Don't think it has. 

Einstein's grand theory of gravity, general relativity, has also has been good to us.  The right hand side describes the matter and energy of the universe, the left-hand side depends on gravity.  Either a new kind of energy would change the right hand side of the equation, or a new formulation of gravity, the left.  Geometry beyond me.

The Cassini probe sent to Saturn tested general relativity with very accurate results.  Apollo missions 11, 14, and 15 put mirrors on the Moon to reflect a laser beam back, measuring the distance to the Moon to within 1mm to trace the orbit in detail.  It has beautifully agreed with general relativity, but G/R will be challenged, three projects planned.

In the search for dark matter though -- a photon of light will follow the path defined in which matter warps spacetime.  An outline of the path of light going around dark matter can be documented in gravitational lensing surveys, but the lens itself, what is warping spacetime, is invisible.  So the influence can be seen and outlining the paths of light gives a tracing of something there, but not what it is. 

It's a hard one to just leave at that, I'd give it time. 

It might seem, dark matter cannot be explained by modifications of our theory of gravity. 




Quote:

getting in way over my head here

me too    ;)

Headache Boy uk wrote on Mar 14^th, 2010 at 10:15pm:

ain't none of that stuff in my Bible. except a reference to 4 corners ,

Yes, it's there. The idea of spherical earth that revolves on its axis and orbits the sun is incompatible with a literal reading of the Bible, and it is why the Church opposed Copernicus and Galileo. 


Headache Boy uk wrote on Mar 14^th, 2010 at 10:15pm:

any way the Bible is more a reference  on how to live our lives in a relationship with God not a set of rules to be taken literally,

We agree on that.

Maybe I'm missing the bigger picture here but it just seems to me that spending so much time and money on finding the smallest particles or trying to make black holes and stuff is such a wast when there are more important science issues about at the moment such as what to do when we hit peek oil (reckoned to be in about 5 years) etc.

It's not that I'm apposed to science in all it's formes but some of it seems a little unnecessary.

But like i said I'm probably missing the big picture, after all I am just a carpenter ;)

Nigel

Nigel,

The thing is that a lot these brainiacs aren't able to tie their shoes or fry and egg so it's best to let them have their way. That and I can't imagine how dull this planet would be without them. This little toy we use here exists because of them. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

I love this stuff but I need more than a road map. I need a Dummies guide here.

Charlie

Ok here's one for you, dose finding / proving the existence of dark matter or dark energy mean that darkness actually exists , and is not just a word used to describe the lack of light ?

Quote:

when we hit peek oil (reckoned to be in about 5 years)

Not familiar with this day of reckoning, more of being under the reins of cost and further problems from its use.  Drilling under the Artic will be easier with clearing ice.

In five years who knows, could be a base established at the Moon's poles to mine 100 million tons of He-3 only nine feet down, your M-15 and M-16 looking at protecting Earth's landing sites for conveying to newly built fusion reactors.  From all this space crap, unlimited power.  ;)




Quote:

Ok here's one for you, dose finding / proving the existence of dark matter or dark energy mean that darkness actually exists , and is not just a word used to describe the lack of light ?

Dark can mean hidden or secret so far, too.


My original reply to the MN detection mentioned, which may be in the area of the conversation, the using of absolute zero to freeze nuclei into place, I'd assume, is to detect movement, maybe capturing and identifying something weakly interacting with matter.  It's not the only one, Lawrence Livermore and CERN have their projects.  Separately also, annihilation detectors based in the Antarctic and a gamma ray telescope launched in 2008.  Ideas of mystery hunters for capture, identity.

Headache Boy uk wrote on Mar 15^th, 2010 at 7:38pm:

It's not that I'm apposed to science in all it's formes but some of it seems a little unnecessary.

All science is important - START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE - but some leaves me wondering.

Forgive me; the dark side has left me a little twitchy for I see not all that appears to be.
I had a dream, which was not all a dream.
The bright sun was extinguished, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space,
Ray less, and pathless, and the icy earth
Swung blind and blackening in the moonless air;
Morn came, and went and came, and brought no day,
And men forgot their passions in the dread
Of this desolation; and all hearts
Were chilled into a selfish prayer for light:
Ho Hum.
Darkly speaking of course
Colin..

Quote:

For a long period of time there was much speculation and controversy about where the so-called "missing matter" of the Universe had got to. All over the Galaxy the science departments of all the major universities were acquiring more and more elaborate equipment to probe and search the hearts of distant galaxies, and then the very centre and the very edges of the whole Universe, but when eventually it was tracked down it turned out in fact to he all the stuff which the equipment had been packed in.   Mostly Harmless    Douglas Adams

   In reality there is so much dust in are galaxy that we cannot see the galactic core. It should be bright, maybe brighter than the sun. Every galaxy has this dust too, maybe even between the galaxies.

   The mass of the universe is calculated by the light we see. With possible a large portion of this light being unable to be seen there is a lot of mass the isn't counted. Some scientist decided that dark matter or dark energy must be the answer and went searching for it. They ignore the dust in front of their eyes.

Paul

There is no dark matter, it's all dark.

HEY>>>>>>>>>>>>!!
So, what's the matter, really with dark hair? Can ya tell me??
Cosmetologists have been discussing this with their clients for years now, but it's generally, blonde, brunette, redhead.........it's a SCIENCE.. not speculation!
The study of cosmetology will explain just how you achieve the shade desired and, if you're lucky, she's an aesthetician as well, assisiting you in facials and makeup color choices........glad I could help!
Oh, and if she's really good, she keeps her station clean and dust-free, too!

TA ALL!
Emily Latella

Opus wrote on Mar 16^th, 2010 at 10:59pm:

The mass of the universe is calculated by the light we see. With possible a large portion of this light being unable to be seen there is a lot of mass the isn't counted. Some scientist decided that dark matter or dark energy must be the answer and went searching for it. They ignore the dust in front of their eyes.

Yet not true, they use the hot gas, there is an understandng of the details of gas physics.  From a combination of temperature and density -- pressure of an ideal gas is directly proportional to its density times temperature, and the temperature of gas is encoded in the spectrum of x-ray radiation.  At a particular temperature, it will have a particular shape.  Observing the intensity of the x-ray signals over a range of energies, the temperature can be deduced.

With the hot cluster gas, it's stripped of electrons and ionized into a soup of negatively charged electrons and positively charged ions, known as plasma. 
  Collisions between electrons and ions produce x-rays -- the more electrons in the plasma, the more x-rays.  Since the number of electrons is related to the number of atoms in the gas, total gas mass can be determined from the intensity of the x-ray radiation.

Concerning dust, condensation from gas to solid, it is detected by its radiative properties as well, easily noticed in this picture:

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Peering at just our neighbor, Andromeda galaxy, the hard-to-ignore pink is dust.



Quote:

In reality there is so much dust in are galaxy that we cannot see the galactic core.

Or if one would like, pictures minus the dust also:

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The core of our Milky Way without the dust.







wrote on Mar 16^th, 2010 at 9:04pm:

The bright sun was extinguished, Darkly speaking of course

Oh now, not so dark really, Colin.  When it goes, expanding into a giant red engulfing the Earth, we'll be within it!

Colin, I  think you just need to ask a teenager to explain it to you.They know everything anyway!

Colin,
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Search for Patricia Burchat.

This is a great site on many subjects.

Root

Don't get me on the topic of hot gas and visual imparement of the tubular looking tube to out there.

One moment whilst i wipe the dark matter from my eye.
Considering we don't see 70% of whats there and guess the rest
OK the worlds not flat and we ain't gonna fall off it if we go to far.
We totally assume from our mathematicians
(Maybe' another day)

Kevin_M wrote on Mar 16^th, 2010 at 11:57pm:

Yet not true, they use the hot gas, there is an understandng of the details of gas physics.  From a combination of temperature and density -- pressure of an ideal gas is directly proportional to its density times temperature, and the temperature of gas is encoded in the spectrum of x-ray radiation.  At a particular temperature, it will have a particular shape.  Observing the intensity of the x-ray signals over a range of energies, the temperature can be deduced.

I thought the X-ray studies were showing less mass than the inferred/visible/ultraviolet light studies. Am I out of touch with current data,  or are scientist trying to use studies showing less mass?

Unrelated to above.
For those that misunderstand what Atheism believes this should help.

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Paul

Opus wrote on Mar 18^th, 2010 at 1:14am:

I thought the X-ray studies were showing less mass than the inferred/visible/ultraviolet light studies. Am I out of touch with current data,  or are scientist trying to use studies showing less mass?

I don't take you mean inferred/visible, however just for a moment, by itself, that portion had been misleading us to believe Andromeda, larger and with many, many more stars had more mass than the Milky Way.  While it is larger with more stars, our galaxy has about an equal mass, so that's been unreliable.

What you more likely mean is the combination of infrared and ultraviolet, which as of early 2007 had found what was previously thought to be dark matter came to be harder to find visible matter and for the same reason we visibly miscalculated Andromeda's mass -- the Milky Way is more actively star-forming at its core.

This was done on dwarf galaxies that spewed out from a collision of larger galaxies and they happened to come from the core of the colliding galaxies, where the star-forming was going on.  This is what has also determined our galaxy has the mass of Andromeda, because of this active star-forming at our core. 

In the case of these dwarf galaxies, it has seemed to explain what was previously thought to be dark matter, but is in fact visible.

This all unfolds more, but these being from the disk and not the halo of the larger colliding galaxies, much mass is at the center, and explains why these dwarfs have so much mass thought to be hidden. 

Dark matter seems to be in a halo around the core, which makes it still in the air, so to say.

But they do suspect that infrared/uv can detect the harder-to-find and its use is important.  It surprisingly hasn't been a large topic on dark matter hunts but I'd like to find out more than what I've only read.  Good point, Paul.



 



With computer modeling
 

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Charlie

Paul, sorry, previous post was written without my usual three or more edits in attempts to make things better understandable, or just sound sane.  Notice though the last post was finished at 9:05am, I was to meet somebody at 9:00am.  Returning, I found an article written a year before I read about it, probably took that much time to make the info a part of a book, and being kinda new, was not discussed a whole lot, also probably because of this mentioned in the article in 2006.


Quote:

The Cambridge University team expects to submit the first of its results to a leading astrophysics journal in the next few weeks. ... "The distribution of dark matter bears no relationship to anything you will have read in the literature up to now," explained Professor Gilmore.

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The points I pick up from this article matches in many ways what was what I had later read.  Some of them being:


Quote:

But now an Institute of Astronomy, Cambridge, team has at last been able to place limits on how it [dark matter] is packed in space and measure its "temperature". "It's the first clue of what this stuff might be," said Professor Gerry Gilmore. "For the first time ever, we're actually dealing with its physics," he told the BBC News website.

Mentioned in an earlier post with halos and temperature.



Quote:

Science understands a great deal about what it terms baryonic matter - the "normal" matter which makes up the stars, planets and people - but it has struggled to comprehend the main material from which the cosmos is constructed.

A general statement, of course saying dark matter is a mystery.



Quote:

Astronomers cannot detect dark matter directly because it emits no light or radiation.

This, too.



Quote:

Its presence, though, can be inferred from the way galaxies rotate: their stars move so fast they would fly apart if they were not being held together by the gravitational attraction of some unseen material.

Mentioned earlier, recounted from its history since Zwicky in 1933.



Quote:

The Cambridge efforts have produced an additional, independent result: the detailed study of the dwarf galaxies  has allowed the scientists to weigh our own galaxy more precisely than ever before. "It turns out the Milky Way is more massive than we thought," said Professor Gilmore. "It now looks as though the Milky Way is the biggest galaxy in the local Universe, bigger even than Andromeda. It was thought until just a few months ago that it was the other way around."

This is what I mean by inferred and visible being deceiving, because of the turn-around on which galaxy is bigger since, but notice again, this study was on dwarf galaxies perhaps not suitable in a search for dark matter, because as it mentions:


Quote:

"It looks like you cannot ever pack it [dark matter] smaller than about 300 parsecs - 1,000 light-years; this stuff will not let you. That tells you a speed actually - about 9km/s - at which the dark matter particles are moving because they are moving too fast to be compressed into a smaller scale. "These are the first properties other than existence that we've been able determine."

This why it may be dwarf galaxies are unlikely candidates if searching for dark matter and not part of the hunt, they can be too small, or if larger than this, too sparse in amount as to be detectably relevant in its mass.  This is why I kept the conversation on galaxies and clusters.  Here also explains why:


Quote:

"If this temperature for the dark matter is correct, then it has huge implications for direct searches for these mysterious particles (it seems [science] may be looking in the wrong place for them) and for how we thought the galaxies and clusters of galaxies evolve in the Universe. "Having 'hotter' dark matter makes it harder to form the smallest galaxies, but does help to make the largest structures  This result will generate a lot of new research."

Quote:

The most likely candidate for dark matter material is the so-called weakly interacting massive particle, or Wimp.

This relates back to a further comment on Colin's original mention of a MN detection base where absolute zero is used.  This also.


Quote:

Experimental crystal detectors placed down the bottom of deep mines are hoping to record the passage through normal matter of these hard to grasp dark matter particles.

Could be the CERN and Lawrence Livermore projects:


Quote:

Researchers would hope also that future experiments in particle accelerators will give them greater insight into the physics of dark matter.

Of course the article explains all this, but just wanted to show how this early article has related closely to information I had learned of afterward and as noticed doesn't make mention of infrared/ultraviolet for some reason.  So what you last posted was strange to me but from what mention I've read, a dwarf galaxy was in common.  That was all I could comment about it.   

:)





of course edited again.

Kevin
So exactly what are you saying???
Is it there or is'nt it can you see, feel, smell or touch it.
Sounds like an over elaborate excuse of wasting funds to me.
Giz a job will ya.
cern were looking for a magnetic core sweeper upper, and i did apply but it required experience of nanno particle mopping and a bit of out of hours sub cooling cabinet cleaning, (These boffs just love their ice creams)
Any use for 9000 gauss bar magnets in your world, do have a few ideas myself,
Apart from keep your fingers clear.

I'V GOT IT

The answer is 42!

Kevin,

The BBC article is interesting but incomplete like most BBC articles. It said the dark matter is 10,000 degrees, degrees what? Kelvin I hope.

It seems to me something so hot would emit more radiation than zero.  If it is made up of WIMPs then it is possible but still unlikely. We will see.

Paul

Opus wrote on Mar 19^th, 2010 at 12:35am:

It said the dark matter is 10,000 degrees,

Yeah, I didn't comment on that either, too confusing.


You are correct in that x-rays don't accurately trace the profiles of cluster cores, their inferred radius is smaller than suggested by earlier x-ray measurments.  This is not at odds with dark matter predictions, but creates complexities and discrepancies with cluster lensing, a method which seems to be playing the major role in detecting mass by gravity that also seems separate from the hot gas revealed by the x-ray observation that has differentiated the two. 

Evidence is strong that dark matter of some form exists from lensing and where it is, this is what makes these direct search experiments for dark matter particles important that Colin mentioned.  Don't know what it is, but it's out there, lensing narrows the search.

I apparently don't have an updated browser to view these links, but check here:

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Quote:

We will see.

Agree on that.      :)

Kevin_M wrote on Mar 19^th, 2010 at 6:19am:

I apparently don't have an updated browser to view these links, but check here: http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2006/1e0657/ http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/chandra/news/08-111.html

What are you running IE6? Even Microsoft sent flowers to it's funeral. The links work fine in the latest firefox and chrome.

What happened to the mystery of the Pioneer probes slowing down?

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Is it dark matter in our own solar system, is it a misunderstanding of gravity at distance, or is it string theories mass in more than 3 dimensions exhibiting gravity in the three dimensions we can see? 

We are far from understanding what is going on in our local space. In my opinion scientist should be looking at all solutions, not just one.

Paul

The net buzz speculation gets really out there, many things to check for with the slight anomaly, instramentational included. 


Quote:

The measured deceleration is about one nanometer per second per second, measured over distances of about seven trillion meters.  That's twenty-one orders of magnitude between the length scales.  That's a thousand billion billion to one, a sextillion to uno,

Not sure if still tracked with budget cutbacks.

from a previous post:

Quote:

The Cassini probe sent to Saturn tested general relativity with very accurate results.

But not exactly precise.  There was a decimal point with a few zeros after it.  Could be the next big net stink.  Things like that known, concern so far hasn't ruffled much.


Another good one is from the Russian Venera program, landing on Venus.  At a certain point of descent in its atmosphere all technical equipment blinks out for something like 5 seconds or longer.  I think we also experienced this with one atmospheric probe.



Quote:

We are far from understanding what is going on in our local space.

It wouldn't help any with dark energy, 72% of the universe.  Doesn't happen in a gravity system, which trumps it. 

Kevin M

Sorry I missed your peek oil question....

Peek oil is the point at which demand exceeds supply causing prices to sky rocket and loss of availability (as if prices weren't high enough already at £1.20 a liter($6.80 a gallon for our us friends))
A possible dooms day in it's self cos it will effect every thing.

sorry to go off topic . Maybe dark energy can be harnessed to overcome this problem.

edited cos my spelling is crap

Headache Boy uk wrote on Mar 19^th, 2010 at 7:49pm:

Peek oil is the point at which demand exceeds supply causing prices to sky rocket and loss of availability (as if prices weren't high enough already at £1.20 a liter($6.80 a gallon for our us friends)) A possible dooms day in it's self cos it will effect every thing.

Sort of ... peak oil occurs when the development of the resource hits a maximum and then begins to decline. There have been times in the past when demand exceeded supply, and that was not peak oil.

Peak oil will be a game-changer. Nothing out there will be able to economically replace oil. We won't run out of oil overnight, but the limited supply will drive the prices up, as you said.

Anytime in the past 50 years that the price of oil spiked, the economy went into a recession. Then demand decreased, and prices went down. I expect we'll see a lot of that in the next two decades ... every recovery will trigger an increase in oil prices, which will induce more economic malaise. The only way to get out of this is to move away from heavy dependency on a declining resource ... which may not be fun or easy.

No it won't and this is the basis of my original comment way up the page some where on funds for research into dark matter etc. maybe being better used else where such as research into renewable energy.

BTW I knew my spelling of peak didn't look right, duh ! :D

On the radio yesterday an oil company flak explained that one reason their oil gets more expensive in warmer months is that they like drag out their "less polluting oil" when demand is up in summer?  :o ;D

What's even worse is that we let them get away with this bullshit.

Charlie

Kevin_M wrote on Mar 19^th, 2010 at 6:15pm:

The net buzz speculation gets really out there, many things to check for with the slight anomaly, instramentational included.  Not sure if still tracked with budget cutbacks.

Contact with Pioneer 11 was lost in 1995. Pioneer 10 was declared dead in 2003.

The anomaly wasn't net buzz, but straight from NASA. They discovered it and tried to get help finding the answer. I believe as of today it is still a mystery.

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The anomaly is at the end or find the word "ANOMALOUS"

The budget cuts you are thinking about were for Voyager 1 and 2. Thankfully That didn't happen and both are still sending data.

Paul

Quote:

Not sure if still tracked with budget cutbacks.

Opus wrote on Mar 20^th, 2010 at 12:42am:

Pioneer 10 was declared dead in 2003. The budget cuts ...

Aware.  There was something about still tracking it with Doppler, not communication, that may have been cut off.




Quote:

it is still a mystery.

There are a few to come across.  :)

Questioning general relativity and Newton's Law is always an option, as I mentioned concerning dark matter and may be going forward in some projects planned. 

Newton's laws of gravity are a limiting case within general relativity.  Maybe general relativity is imbedded in an even deeper theory of gravity, something missing from the right or left hand side of the equation.  Not easy, but yet only one aspect of a search.  

Headache Boy uk wrote on Mar 19^th, 2010 at 7:49pm:

Kevin M Sorry I missed your peek oil question.... Peek oil is ...

Don't recall any question about peak oil.  ???   Just mentioned Arctic drilling and price, which doesn't have a relationship to the reserves in the Earth.


May 2007, M16 in Moscow and Beijing discovered Russia and China had signed an agreement to mine He-3 on the moon.  Both Roscosmos, Russia's Federal Space Agency, and China's Lunar Exploration agency predicted they would have a head start over rival NASA/ESA, who announced Moon bases by 2014.

Your landing sites and reactors will be based on remote moorlands in Scotland and the west of England, but less than secure defenses have been found from Russia and China.

After landing, processing, and fullfilling their domestic needs, and marketing globally at prices they set, M15/M16 computer experts at GCHQ predict cyberwarfare hacking from the pair will prevent us from completing the same.       spy vs spy stuff    ;)

Charlie wrote on Mar 20^th, 2010 at 12:12am:

On the radio yesterday an oil company flak explained that one reason their oil gets more expensive in warmer months is that they like drag out their "less polluting oil" when demand is up in summer?  :o ;D What's even worse is that we let them get away with this bullshit. Charlie START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGESTART PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Demand did usually go up in the summer - I remember 'the good old days' when people used to hop in the car and drive thousands of miles. That alone can raise prices, even if there was a perfect market (which we never had, too few companies with too much ability to reshape the market).

And refineries in many areas are required to change their formulation of gasoline with the seasons ... many areas are more likely to have thermal inversions in the summer, which traps pollution and leads to photochemical smog. To cut down on problems from pollution, the gasoline is required to burn cleaner at these times. It does add to the cost.

Sorry Kevin it wasn't so much a question as" not being aware of this doomsday"

I'm quoting from memory here couldn't figure out how to find Your post to copy the relevant part.

I think the oil companies are nothing short of devious especially when so many reports of people using water to run cars etc come out and then they are never herd of again

Nigel

Headache Boy uk wrote on Mar 20^th, 2010 at 10:21am:

" not being aware of this doomsday"

Yep, tha'd be certainly true.  Running out in five years isn't.

Headache Boy uk wrote on Mar 20^th, 2010 at 10:21am:

I think the oil companies are nothing short of devious especially when so many reports of people using water to run cars etc come out and then they are never herd of again

Urban legends. Yes, oil companies may be devious, but it is related to mundane things like trying to boost prices a few extra pennies, or covering up their pollution.

Water is not a limitless fuel - it is like ash, already oxidized and low energy. The only way to run a car on water is to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen, then burn those gases. It works, but you have to put more energy in than you get out.

If there is a miracle technology, it might be fusion. But fusion is 20 years in the future (and has been for the last 60 years). 

monty wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 12:31am:

If there is a miracle technology, it might be fusion. But fusion is 20 years in the future (and has been for the last 60 years).

Yes Jon, it has, but nonetheless an interesting sequence of articles from The New Scientist appearing sporadic over the years presently has intel services up on their toes about this for some reason, and concerned digesting the waves from a Russia/China agreement that seems to have been learned in 2007.  What are they up to, how large the repercussions.



Quote:

The Mine on the Moon 18 November 1995 by Justin Mullins ONE day we will mine the Moon. We will mine it for a valuable fuel which will make fusion power possible at last. And that day will come soon: not in five hundred years' time but early the next century. Or so Hiromu Momota, professor of nuclear engineering at the National Institute of Fusion Science in Nagoya, believes. With access to the Moon's store of helium-3, a substance not found on Earth, he believes it will be possible to build fusion machines which are simpler, cheaper and cleaner. These machines could even be used to power spacecraft and generate high-energy beams to treat cancer. The experimental fusion reactors now being built around the world ...

Then later, we have:


Quote:

China plans three-phase Moon exploration 03 March 2003 by Will Knight China has revealed further details of its plans to explore the Moon... ... Ziyuan said exploring the Moon "probably holds the key to humanity's future subsistence and development". ... Furthermore, Luan Enjie, director of China National Space Administration, hinted that China would be interesting in exploiting rare resources found on the Moon's surface. "The prospect for the development and utilisation of the lunar potential mineral and energy resources provide resource reserves for the sustainable development of human society," he told the newspaper. However, James Oberg, a space analyst and veteran of the US space program, believes the projects are more about national pride than scientific or industrial exploration. Nonetheless, he says the lunar missions are well within China's means. "They've already developed the capabilities to operate spacecraft around the Moon and even on its surface," he told New Scientist. China has so far launched four "Shenzhou" spacecraft in preparation for a crewed mission into space. Such an achievement would make China only the third nation in the world, after the US and Russia, to place humans in space. Oberg adds that China has set itself a number of ambitious goals. "As with their manned programme, they don't intend to recreate the US and Russian programmes," he says. "They intend to go to the head of the queue in terms of capabilities."

An announcement by Bush followed months later.


Quote:

Can we mine the Moon? 31 January 2004 by Eugenie Samuel Reich The prospect of a permanent lunar base has certainly excited astronaut Harrison Schmitt, a veteran of the Apollo 17 mission. Nowadays Schmitt is a geologist at the University of Wisconsin in Madison and chairman of Interlune Intermars which raises money to develop lunar mining. President Bush's announcement included references to the moon's "abundant resources", but Schmitt and his co-prospectors are primarily interested in one: helium-3. Helium deposits are scarce on Earth, and the isotope helium-3 is even rarer. Nevertheless, it is valuable in medical diagnostics, and researchers developing nuclear fusion reactors as a future solution to terrestrial power generation will use helium-3 by the bucket load. Soil samples brought back from Apollo suggest that the lunar surface, or regolith, contains vast amounts of helium and hydrogen deposited by the solar wind. ...

;)   


Star Wars, the sequel

This just in:

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Quote:

Astronomers have long known that in many surveys of the very distant Universe, a large fraction of the total intrinsic light was not being observed. Now, thanks to an extremely deep survey using two of the four giant 8.2-metre telescopes that make up ESO’s Very Large Telescope (VLT) and a unique custom-built filter, astronomers have determined that a large fraction of galaxies whose light took 10 billion years to reach us have gone undiscovered. The survey also helped uncover some of the faintest galaxies ever found at this early stage of the Universe.

I love how the first Blog says this can't possibly have anything to with dark matter. Finding matter we couldn't see before because of dust and gas means we still don't have all the answers to how much light emitting matter is out there.

Has Dark matter turned into a religion like AGW?

Paul

Yes, includes the little note preempting the article and within it:



Quote:

I’ll note: this has nothing to do with dark matter We know it exists, and you can find out why here.

Click there within the article.

Glad you cleared that up for me.
Still feel the monkey on the typewriter's  favourite to get the last verse down before your explanation.
Googleplex and counting.....
and one and two and three.....
What did you say Graham.

Oh!! got a light Charlie.
Think we both need one Eh.

wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 5:36pm:

Still feel the monkey on the typewriter's  favourite to get the last verse down Googleplex and counting.....

Instead of retyping several entire books on a message board, complimentary displayable articles and pictures are easier.  ;)    



wrote on Mar 12^th, 2010 at 7:37pm:

What on earth are they teaching our kids at school nowadays?

With banana-peeling critters' diligence attaining one-time personal bests of six to eight words of Hamlet, the bar has been heightened beyond any competing use to think it comparable to explore unknowns anymore. 




Quote:

You science buffs gotta help me here.

Buffing's a nowhere job matched against waiting for another word typed, but still two cents.  If you want to drop that other shoe up here now...    :) 

Comedian Bob Newhart had a stand-up routine in which a lab technician monitoring an "infinite number of monkeys" experiment discovered that one of the monkeys has typed something of interest. It went something like this: "Hey, Harry! Here's something: 'To be or not to be — that is the gazornenplattzsptt."

Charlie

A challenge I fear is blossoming in the world of smithy whether it be fact, fictional, dour or comedic or a mixture of tuther…
Keeping my brain active!!
Why, look you now, how unworthy a thing you make of me. You would play upon me; you would seem to know my stops; you would pluck out the heart of my mystery; you would sound me from my lowest note to the top of my compass; and there is much music, excellent voice, in this little organ, yet cannot you make it speak. 'Sblood, do you think I am easier to be played on than a pipe? Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, you cannot play upon me.
Although the toe nails need a little trim…