Congressman Alcee Hastings (D) FL says...  during rules committee meeting on Obamacare…  "There are no rules...  We make them up as we go along..."

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The bureaucrats at CMS refuse to cover the cost of oxygen therapy for MEDICARE beneficiaries suffering from cluster headaches... and I wouldn't count on any of the other cluster headache medications like imitrex and verapamil either...  These medications are not covered for senior citizens with only Medicare coverage and who suffer from cluster headaches...  From their own web site…

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It will be no different with Government mandated medical insurance as it will eventually default to Medicare rules...  many made up by politically appointed bureaucrats...  not doctors.

Like it or not... the liberal progressives in control of Congress are about to pass Obamacare, a.k.a. social medicine, or comprehensive health care reform...  unless you do something about it...  Today!

Among other provisions that will spend us further into generational debt, this legislation will increase your taxes, your medical costs and reduce your access to health care as you know it… 

This legislation will also add more than 16 Thousand new IRS agents just to check each month if you have purchased mandatory medical insurance... that still will not cover oxygen therapy for cluster headaches... 

And if you haven't purchased this mandated medical insurance...  The IRS is going to fine you $2500 and keep your income tax return until you do...

If any of this bothers you...  you might consider going to your Congressional Representative's home page and call both his or her DC and local offices...  (The DC number is going to be busy...) Then send a fax to both locations and an email telling your representative what you think...

You can find the needed phone numbers and email form for your representative at the following link:

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If you don't want to do this today...  you can kiss the best medical care in the world (that could have been made better with common sense bi-partisan improvements) good-by...

Take care and BOHICA...

V/R, Batch

Today is too late, my friend.

The fat lady ain't sung yet...  and there were thousands of us at the Capital Steps yesterday that think there's still an opportunity to stop this liberal wet dream...

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There's still time to call, fax, and email...  and then there are a lot of States that think Obamacare is unconstitutional and ready to file suit... 

In short...  It ain't over...

Take care...  and BOHICA

V/R, Batch

No, she hasn't sung yet. But these @$$clowns aren't checking their e-mail today.

i understand where you guys are coming from but what are republicans doing to get the price of health care down. during the bush years my insurance went from $23 a week to $117 a week. republicans didnt address this issue then. whats they're solution now?

Quote:

the liberal progressives in control of Congress are about to pass Obamacare, a.k.a. social medicine

Good.

Charlie

The liberal progressives have always been good at knowing what's best for other people.

Brew wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 3:18pm:

The liberal progressives have always been good at knowing what's best for other people.

as with neo conservatives.

Mark Neuman who is running for congress in Wisconsin has a banner add running above this post on ch.com.  Wisconsin stop Obamacare.  He is collecting signatures on a petition to take to Madison and Washington DC to our elected officials to make them stand up and notice.

Neuman is running for governor.

Quote:

The liberal progressives have always been good at knowing what's best for other people.

What's happened, to the country's great misfortune, is that there no progressives of any stripe in the Republican party today. No Theodore Roosevelts nor Dwight Eisenhowers allowed. Out with these heretics! What do they mean that the country is the real thing, not themselves?

Charlie

The liberal progressives are so proud of this pile of dog crap... and they think it's going to be so popular... that they're hiring over 16 Thousand IRS agents to enforce its provisions...  so the IRS can take a lot more of your money with no real improvement in the cost or access to quality health care in the process...

Sorry Charlie...  but Stupak just caved on his opposition to the present bill... for a promise of an unsigned executive order from the anointed one... 

So it looks like your beloved liberal progressives are going to be cutting $500 Billion out of Medicare...  That isn't going to do you any good either...  In fact...  It's going to reduce your access to health care... 

Just plan on getting in line behind the more than 10 Million illegal aliens that the liberal progressives are going to grant amnesty...  and instant citizenship so they can get their shiny new medical insurance cards...  and vote liberal...  you know that old pandering thing...

After all... they're here illegally and have been taking advantage of our Nation's hospital emergency rooms since they jumped the fence, so they're clearly more deserving and more entitled to receiving access to primary health care they've not paid into all their working lives...  ahead of you...  me, and the rest of us...

Take care and BOHICA

V/R, Batch

America will get exactly what it deserves. Elections have consequences.

Batch wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 4:22pm:

Stupak just caved on his opposition to the present bill...

Other stuff aside, if that's our Bart Stupak, he represents the upper portion of the highest unemployed state, and an area extremely hard hit by unemployment, probably thereby also uninsured. 


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Brew wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 5:02pm:

Elections have consequences.

Regardless of political position,  I sincerely hope that everyone remembers this at all times.

The duty to inform yourself of the facts and vote is paramount.

Marc

i'm not seeing any kind of a solution to our heath care problems from the republican party. it would that the objective of the republican party is to oppose the democrats no matter what. i understand where republicans  are coming from but what is the solution?   

-johnny- wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 7:24pm:

i'm not seeing any kind of a solution to our heath care problems from the republican party. ...............................

Wow, I thought that the ideas they were pushing made a lot of sense. Good old common sense from what I saw.

What did you disagree with in their list of suggested reforms? I would really like to hear what you think is wrong with their approach? Please do tell me, because I think that they are all great, but no one will listen!

I can't stand the Republican party as it is (and has been for awhile) I consider myself to be a Constitutional Conservative.

Marc

-johnny- wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 7:24pm:

i'm not seeing any kind of a solution to our heath care problems from the republican party. it would that the objective of the republican party is to oppose the democrats no matter what. i understand where republicans  are coming from but what is the solution?

Google Paul Ryan and start reading.

-johnny- wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 7:24pm:

i'm not seeing any kind of a solution to our heath care problems from the republican party. it would that the objective of the republican party is to oppose the democrats no matter what. i understand where republicans  are coming from but what is the solution?

Yes, they thought they had to oppose anything and everything to spite the Democrats.  Some conservatives are honest about it all:
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And the plan that is passing is not very different from what Nixon once proposed, not very different from what Mitt Romney set up in Massachusetts, and not very different from what McCain proposed.  They had to delude themselves and excrete hysterical rhetoric to about how this bill would 'kill grandma' and 'destroy America as we know it' ... Epic Failure. 

We'll see.

Marc wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 7:35pm:

-johnny- wrote on Mar 21st, 2010 at 7:24pm: i'm not seeing any kind of a solution to our heath care problems from the republican party. ...............................    Wow, I thought that the ideas they were pushing made a lot of sense. Good old common sense from what I saw. What did you disagree with in their list of suggested reforms? I would really like to hear what you think is wrong with their approach? Please do tell me, because I think that they are all great, but no one will listen! I can't stand the Republican party as it is (and has been for awhile) I consider myself to be a Constitutional Conservative. Marc

could you post a link for me please?

Brew wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 7:37pm:

-johnny- wrote on Mar 21st, 2010 at 7:24pm: i'm not seeing any kind of a solution to our heath care problems from the republican party. it would that the objective of the republican party is to oppose the democrats no matter what. i understand where republicans  are coming from but what is the solution?    Google Paul Ryan and start reading.

thanks bill. i like what he has to say. my wife tells me hes bipartisan.

-johnny- wrote on Mar 21^st, 2010 at 8:51pm:

Google Paul Ryan and start reading.thanks bill. i like what he has to say. my wife tells me hes bipartisan.

Watch CSPAN for the rest of the night. You'll see and hear him.

It'll be alright.

I can give you dozens and dozens of examples of things the Government runs efficiently and at, or less than, what they predicted it would cost.

I trust the Government. They know what's best for me.

Steve Galt

All I know is when someone pays for something, they own it. That's what bothers me.....

The liberal progressives in control of Congress have crossed the Rubicon and gone off the reservation with this infamous and partisan vote of 219 to 212 to pass comprehensive health care…  The liberals now own what little good it may contain and are now fully responsible for all of the terrible things it will do to our great Nation…  None of this can be blamed on Bush…  and we now have taxpayer funded abortion…

Start counting the freedoms you've lost and the horrendous price you, your children and your grandchildren will be paying due to this act of partisan and ideological arrogance that has trashed our Constitution…  and remember the liberal sleaze factor when next you vote…

Quote:

So it looks like your beloved liberal progressives are going to be cutting $500 Billion out of Medicare...  That isn't going to do you any good either...  In fact...  It's going to reduce your access to health care...

Surely you jest. Do you seriously think the wimps in Congress would touch that third rail? You crack me up.


Quote:

Start counting the freedoms you've lost and the horrendous price you and your grandchildren will be paying due to this act of partisan and ideological arrogance that has trashed our Constitution…  and remember the liberal sleaze factor when next you vote…

Social Security and Medicare both were the end of America.  Medicare, which was the beginning or the end, turned out to be biggest cash cow the AMA could imagine.

Not to worry though, just give corporate medicine and evil insurance companies some time.

Charlie

The funny part is - they just gave the insurance companies $332,000,000,000 in new enrollments.  No wonder the insurance companies have been so quiet.

Happy Dependence Day, everybody!

I've read this thread with interest. And Pete ya knows I love ya...(as well as the rest of ya).
   Now I don't even consider myself a Dem or Rep these days -- I'm a Free Thinker (isn't that a throwback from the 60s - oh well!). But, there's been so much chapter and verse thrown out about this bill without telling the whole story that it's gotten so blown out of the water that it's hard to figure who's telling the truth and who's lying.. (most everyone has been lying at one point or another about something in it).

Personally I think it's going to be good for the country. Medicare has been. VA medical has been (regardless of the complaints - 1000s of Vets are helped daily with medical care and mostly without costs).

There are things in this bill that I'm not crazy about (and YES, I've read the whole darn thing), but over time I think they'll be changed.

The "cuts" to medicare are mostly "waste" and IMO should have been cut years ago.

Insofar as the abortion thing goes. That's just hogwash.

There's really more GOOD in this bill than bad, IF anyone would take the time to READ the darn thing. Anyone who's gone WITHOUT insurance and without medical care - pre-exisiting conditions keeping them out of the insurance pool - well, what can I say - I can make a case for turning 65 and getting on Medicare JUST to get some insurance.

What we should be concerned with TODAY is the CHANGES we want VOTED on to make this bill BETTER (like we did for SS and Medicare AFTER they were made into law). Maybe if the Republicians would NOW come up with some "Suggestions" instead of "Complaints" it would BENIFIT the American public. I'm personally SICK of everything being politics!

Our NEXT big hurdle is the ILLEGAL ALIEN problem. Maybe we should concentrate on that... Pete you're worried about standing in line behind the illegals. There's a bill going to come up soon on that - maybe we should get our "suggestions" to our senators and congressmen now to let them know how we feel on that. Personally I'm getting tired of these "guest workers" taking American jobs! But I guess that's another year or two of yelling and screaming.....
:-*

Thankyou Barb for input. I think the same as you with all you said, (excepting I dont know pete enough to say I love him) but did you have to start heating up the next debate allready.  ;)

Anyone notice when batch posts about liberals in his terms the ads that pop up, like Ann Coulter and other political groups of the far side.



Bob P wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 7:37am:

The funny part is - they just gave the insurance companies $332,000,000,000 in new enrollments.  No wonder the insurance companies have been so quiet.

Bob I'm not gonna fact check this now but I believe the insurance companies just carried out one of the biggest lobbying efforts in history to kill the bills. The amount of money spent by them was I believe $332,000,000. I wonder if you got that mixed up a bit.

I know, I should stay off this side of the boards.

FYI: FACT: There is a hospital on the Texas/ Mexican border that did 15,000 newborn deliveries last year to all women with a social security # 000-00-0000, which means their illegal alliens coming across the border, they get all the prenatal care necessary up to the birth of the child and all 15,000 mothers got a bill ...totalling $0.00. A working mom who worked at 7-11 w/ no insurance recieved the same care at the same hospital and because she was a American citizen w/ a social security # was billed $36,000.00. Our gov't doesn't even take care of it's own. This health care bill has many hidden agendas. Maybe the 7-11 mom will benefit as she should as a American worker, but our motivational speaker at best/President has it's own agenda and it's not in the best interest of the American people. The hidden agendas in time will be revealed and anything that appeared to be good will quickly disappear by all the closed door promises, discussions, and scandals that will come to light in the weeks and months ahead.

LasVegas wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 1:28pm:

FYI: FACT: There is a hospital on the Texas/ Mexican border that did 15,000 newborn deliveries last year to all women with a social security # 000-00-0000, which means their illegal alliens coming across the border, they get all the prenatal care necessary up to the birth of the child and all 15,000 mothers got a bill ...totalling $0.00.

That isn't a fact. You don't know how many of those '15,000' women entered the country in full compliance with our laws, and you don't know how many did pay their bills. Many middle and upper class Mexicans want to deliver in US hospitals for several reasons, including better facilities and more stringent regulations that improve health outcomes.   

Let's not confuse faulty assumptions and generalizations with 'facts.'

Quote:

I wonder if you got that mixed up a bit.

Nope.  32,000,000 new insured.  If half of them are with private insurance companies at a $6,000/yr premium, the insurance companies are making a bundle.  I hear their stock is doing very well today.  I hear the bill also gives the drug companies a new 12 year patent on name brand drugs.

I think Bobby P checks out Ann Coulter too, but of course just for the articles.


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;)

Ann was a rebellious youth, she went to see the Dead. Someone slipped her some sunshine, she slipped and hit her head... all we can say is ain't it a shame?

As usual these issues become arguments based on political affiliation and one sided half truths.  American government has been selling out America and Americans for decades.  The party in control has surely has surely changed over these decades, but the results are consistent.  Forget the Political B.S.       

The fact is that the entire bill is thousands of pages containing numerous political payoffs that have nothing to do with improving the healthcare system.   

The fact is that many legislators voting for this bill openly admit to not knowing what it contains, some admit they haven't even read it, others admit that it has problems that will need to be fixed after passage.

The fact is the bill does nothing to control healthcare or healthcare insurance costs spiraling out of control at several times the rate of inflation.  It simply makes it mandatory for every American to pay for healthcare insurance – whether you can afford it or not.

This is the same government, Democrats and Republicans, that wasted Trillions of retirement/survivor benefits that should be in reserve in the Social Security Trust.  The same government, Democrats and Republicans that has mismanaged medicare/medicaid into the abyss.  The same government, Democrats and Republicans, that has burdened American taxpayers and our children's children with over $12-Trillion in debt.  The same government, Democrats and Republicans, that have essentially reinterpreted the U.S. Constitution until it has been rendered a worthless piece of paper.

What a joke to argue the merits of either party or that Healthcare Reform  will somehow miraculously escape becoming yet another government mismanaged disaster the American people to be forced to pay for.  Sling all the canned party-line political rhetoric you want but the facts don't support either argument.

burnt-toast
(Tom)      

monty wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 5:21pm:

Ann was a rebellious youth, she went to see the Dead. Someone slipped her some sunshine, she slipped and hit her head... all we can say is ain't it a shame?

Thank You. That was damn funny! ;D

Ann Coulter is too freakin' skinny!

a song for ann colter.
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she too skinny

monty wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 5:21pm:

Ann was a rebellious youth, she went to see the Dead. Someone slipped her some sunshine, she slipped and hit her head... all we can say is ain't it a shame?

She is actually a very nice, warm, intelligent individual in person. She knows how to laugh at herself and I appreciate that quality.

Marc

And she's got purty blonde hair huh Marc? ;) LMAO.... You guys could screw up a train wreck... Here I'd already made the popcorn and you go gettin' off on Coulter...

I'm going to bed... (with my popcorn) and watch the hell-raising on TV! :D

Ya'll play nice now.. ya hear.. :-*

Nah...not my type - I like redheads  :) I certainly don't agree with everything she says, but then I can't think of anyone I agree with all of the time. Not even myself!

Brew wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 7:58am:

Happy Dependence Day, everybody!

Happy as a clam. We Medicare types have been getting along just fine with Big Brother...just like the rest of the world has for decades.

It's great getting mail from Univera showing me that I have a long way to go before I have to start paying big cash for drugs, it hasn't happened yet.

Charlie (Who likes not having to pay $310 a month for drugs that keep me from falling down the stairs several times a year)

You should be. Until it all starts being rationed because there just isn't enough of other people's money to go around.

Never happen. This comes out of the fear campaign that was ridiculous at a level not witnessed since the 1964 Civil Rights Act lunacy.

By the way, relating to the above, take a good hard look at the behavior and composition of those Tea Party followers. Not pretty. 

Maybe you have to be my age to see it though.

Charlie

Can you answer this question? Why weren't the insurance companies screaming about this, like the President said they would????

Because the bill doesn't do anything to stop the rise in cost of health insurance premimums!  They get to keep charging us more and they get millions of new customers (some paid for us taxpayers).
Now you not only get to pay for your insurance but you get to pay for someone elses also.  Wonder if the new bill covers aroma therapy?

Ya know, I heard one guy say this was the worst bill since Lyndon JOhnson signed the Civil Rights Bill - huh? That one just floored me...

Right now, instead of everyone screaming about all the things that are wrong with this bill (and granted there are some things that aren't perfect in it) - CALM down and start offering GOOD things to make it better. Stop the scare tactics - stop all the name calling - stop the B$ and start being PRODUCTIVE about things.

Right now I LOVE Medicare - I LOVE paying $7 for a RX - when I've been paying $300 for the SAME RX for years. And, like Charlie, I have a LONG way to go before I go over the limit. I LOVE the thought that I can EAT and get my MEDS each month.

But I still say we need to put "Common Sense" back in DC. That should be a criteria for running for office and it pains me to see grown men and women standing up before the TV cameras running their mouths sounding like petulent third graders throwing a tandrum cause they didn't get to jump rope at recess.

What happened to the days when we could just disagree and still be buddies after the debate? Politics has gotten way too personal to my way of thinking. You study the issue, you state your opinion, you cast your vote and you ACCEPT the outcome and go on with your life.

Wonder if they remember that we still have two wars going on?

Charlie wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 11:27pm:

By the way, relating to the above, take a good hard look at the behavior and composition of those Tea Party followers. Not pretty.

If your source for information is the complicit state-run media, then you'll believe just about anything.

Wisconsin already ranks #50 49 in health providers getting reimbursed from Medicare.  Now with the cuts to it from the health care bill, what do you think is going to happen?

BarbaraD wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 7:42am:

What happened to the days when we could just disagree and still be buddies after the debate? Politics has gotten way too personal to my way of thinking. You study the issue, you state your opinion, you cast your vote and you ACCEPT the outcome and go on with your life.

Without doubt one of the most intelligent non CH related posts I have read since I came to this site. Although I personally lean to the center left myself I have grown up with my 'Da' who is SOooooo right wing he makes Batch look like  "Che" Guevara. We just agree to disagree have a laugh and move right on.

I believe we still have a good healthy respect for each others views on this site though.. :)



Lefty son of Righty...

Seems like there are any number of opinions on this thread so guess I'll state mine as well.....

I honestly don't know if this deal will end up being good or bad......actually, I don't know how anyone else does.....just readin what it says damned sure doesn't mean thats how its gonna work!!

What I do believe is that none of the politicians that voted for passage gives a rats ass whether it benefits the american public or not......it got passed, like everything else, because the majority of them figured out a way to line their pockets with gold in doing so.

And regardless of whether the legislation is untimately beneficial for my family or not as far as healthcare goes, I fully expect in the long run to have to pay out more for our healthcare costs and our insurance coverage as well.

DD

Brew wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 7:50am:

Charlie wrote on Mar 22nd, 2010 at 11:27pm: By the way, relating to the above, take a good hard look at the behavior and composition of those Tea Party followers. Not pretty.  If your source for information is the complicit state-run media, then you'll believe just about anything.

The three that I have personally attended were nothing like the picture painted by the media. I'm a people watcher by nature so I circulated among the crowds to observe. The typical attendees are FAR from the "knuckle dragging, drooling fools" presented by the media.

Were there some real kooks buried in the crowd somewhere? Sure, just like any sampling of society in general, there are a few. But you have to dig to find them.

What I saw were people of various colors and backgrounds who want to their elected officials to actually represent the will of the people. Weird concept huh.

Marc

Marc wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 9:24am:

Brew wrote on Mar 23rd, 2010 at 7:50am: Charlie wrote on Mar 22nd, 2010 at 11:27pm: By the way, relating to the above, take a good hard look at the behavior and composition of those Tea Party followers. Not pretty.  If your source for information is the complicit state-run media, then you'll believe just about anything. What I saw were people of various colors and backgrounds who want to their elected officials to actually represent the will of the people. Weird concept huh. Marc

Weird concept indeed Marc!!  I wish I could believe that such a concept could actually be put into practice without armed insurrection being a part of the process!!

DD

DD

In recommending itself among other modes of organizing society, a point of democracracy is its capacity for solution of internal problems by social and political structure flexing just enough to find compromise, bargaining, and tolerance still of value.

Occurred as thought for exampling.


BarbaraD wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 7:42am:

Wonder if they remember that we still have two wars going on?

And of the people, too. 

Kevin_M wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 10:49am:

..................... flexing just enough to find compromise, bargaining, and tolerance still of value................

Indeed!

Lefty wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 9:07am:

...  my 'Da' who is SOooooo right wing he makes Batch look like  "Che" Guevara. ...

Now that you mention it, I do see a resemblance.  ;)

Quote:

If your source for information is the complicit state-run media, then you'll believe just about anything.

Whenever the fringe of the right doesn't like results, they spend their time finding someone to blame or somewhere to throw bricks. It takes action on the left rather than ideas to get them going.

The noisiest of the fringe sound very much like the of the worst of the anti-civil rights protestors from the 50s and 60s. The slogans, signs, and the demands for simplistic only answers look the same. They too were given a free pass to act like a mob so long as they didn't get in the way of politics. It was political suicide, as Lyndon Johnson observed to act otherwise in the south. In red states, it is today too.

The media does indeed show the worst of them. They have to or no one would watch. They are there though. The real story is the Congressmen going out of their way to be on the same platform and quietly or not so quietly, endorsing such ugly so-called political theater. The rantings from the fringe in and out of the Congress remind me of the sometimes amusing mob-like actions of old south American legislatures over the years. I wonder how much of that makes trashing Democratic offices seem like a good thing to do.

Cable news treats this thing like a 1940s radio soap opera. "Tune in tomorrow for the next exciting episode in the continuing battle between Glen Beck and Nancy Pelosi," and most of us do.

Charlie

What color is the sky in your world?

Quote:

What color is the sky in your world?

Why on my world, we get together to decide ;D

Charlie

;D

I have tried to not commet on this subject, so I won't, although reform is long overdue. As far as Neuman for govenor, for WI. Check out his bankrupt building and develoment company. His company was named Neuman Homes. He hit the housing bubble, speculated big, and went belly up. He also is from Milton and does not have a good reputation as a teacher (which he once was at Milton) or a builder of quality homes.   

                             Lee

I'm sure many of you may have seen this before, however since we are on the political subject I thought many of you (regardless of political party affiliation) would appreciate this....

"E-Mail  of the Year!! 
WOULDN'T  IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR ANY U.S.  PRESIDENT, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN, GIVE THE  FOLLOWING SPEECH?
   

'My  Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of the  Iraq regime has been completed.

Since  Congress does not want to spend any more money on  this war, our mission in Iraq is  complete.

This morning I gave the order for a  complete removal of all American forces from Iraq .  This action will be complete within 30 days. It is  now time to begin the  reckoning.


Before  me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of  countries which have stood by our side during the  Iraq conflict. This list is short . The United  Kingdom , Spain , Bulgaria , Australia , and Poland  are some of the countries listed there.

The  other list contains every one not on the first list.  Most of the world's nations are on that list. My  press secretary will be distributing copies of both  lists later this evening.

Let me start by  saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to  those nations on List 2 ceases indefinitely. The  money saved during the first year alone will pretty  much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.  THEN  EVERY YEAR THEREAFTER It'll GO TO OUR SOCIAL  SECURITY SYSTEM SO IT WONT GO BROKE IN 20  YEARS.

The  American people are no longer going to pour money  into third world Hell holes and watch those  government leaders grow fat on  corruption.

Need help with a famine ?  Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France .

In  the future, together with Congress, I will work to  redirect this money toward solving the vexing  social   problems  we still have at home. On that note, a word to  terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will  hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends  from the face of the earth.

Thirsting  for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France or  maybe China .

I  am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic  relations with France , and Russia . Thanks for all  your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as  well.

I  have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin  towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in  Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tickets  to sites where those vehicles will be stripped,  shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever  treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of  thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets  tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers and  limos be turned over to some of the finest chop  shops in the world. I love New  York.

A  special note to our neighbors: Canada is on List 2.  Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each  other, you folks might want to try not pissing us  off for a change.

Mexico  is also on List 2. Its president and his entire  corrupt government really need an attitude  adjustment. I will have a couple thousand extra  tanks and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess  where I am going to put 'em? Yep, border  security.

Oh,  by the way, the United States is abrogating the  NAFTA treaty - starting now.

We  are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll  be drilling for oil in Alaska -which will take care  of this country's oil needs for decades to come. If  you're an environmentalist who opposes this  decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a  country and move there.

It  is time for America to focus on its own welfare and  its own citizens. Some will accuse us of  isolationism. I answer them by saying, 'darn  tootin.'

Nearly  a century of trying to help folks live a decent life  around the world has only earned us the undying  enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is  time to eliminate hunger in America . It is time to  eliminate homelessness in America . To the nations  on List 1, a final thought. Thank you guys. We owe  you and we won't forget.

To  the nations on List 2, a final thought : You might  want to learn to speak Arabic.

God bless  America .. Thank you and good  night.'

If  you can read this in English, thank a  soldier. ;)
(Please  forward this to at least ten friends and see what  happens! Let's get this to every USA  computer!)"

"A  special note to our neighbors: Canada is on List 2.  Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each  other, you folks might want to try not pissing us  off for a change."

And as a Canadian - I simply say "BITE ME"!

Grandma_Sweet_Boy wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 8:58pm:

"A  special note to our neighbors: Canada is on List 2.  Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each  other, you folks might want to try not pissing us  off for a change." And as a Canadian - I simply say "BITE ME"!

As a ciizen of the U.S. of America located next to Canada of America I say ditto.

The promise of health reform, to me, seems to be built on the predicate that we can actually fund it.

How can you add millions of patients and it be revenue neutral? The Government can't pay for what is now in place even after they have looted the 2.5t in the Social Security Trust Fund.

Half of this legislation is built upon sand and the other half is cantilevered over an enormous void of empty lies. The spending continues and the incoming revenues can't get anywhere close to keeping up. Taxes will be increased.

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Now, if you've got yours and you're happy as a clam, then wonderful for you. If you've paid into it than that's the deal. Trouble is we seem to be cultivating more and more takers and less and less producers. That's what happens when your goal is big Government and grooming self-righteous, entitlement minded voters.

How long will it last? Who knows.

But remember this...a parasite that kills its host is good for neither.

If the idiots in Washington continue as they are, this country is doomed as well as the promise of a better life for our children. I am beginning to feel it's already too late.

Be equal everybody...no matter your own personally developed character or the struggle in your daily effort to craft your own life.

Equal we'll be...Master.

Steve G

Just curious what you believe to be the percentage of our budget foreign aid comes to?

It's usually a surprise and not enough to pay for all our problems and those that would be caused by your 1930s outlook.

Charlie

LasVegas wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 8:22pm:

If  you can read this in English, thank a  soldier. ;)

Unfortunately, you won't be able to personally thank the 141 Canadian soldiers who have died in Operation Enduring Freedom.



Lefty

Well, years ago (back in the "good old days") we had REGULATIONS on Monopolies (like BIG banks, and insurance companies). The loopholes were "noted" and pretty well covered (not perfect, but pretty well). Then we DEREGULATED everything... It was "good" for the American People! B$!!

Back then being on WELFARE was a "stigma" not a "way of life". But now it's GOOD for the American People! B$!!

Back then our kids learned to READ - WRITE- and CIPHER in schools (without the aid of a computer) and WRITE their little names - But that wasn't GOOD for the American People, so that had to be changed and now we're raising a generation of "lost sheep". Now that's GOOD for the American People! B$

Back then, you got sick, you went to your family doc and he treated you and you got well, your insurance covered it. But that wasn't GOOD for us, so it got changed. TOday we MUST have tests and diseases to fit NEW meds that have been developed and our old family doc MUST send us to specialists to treat "parts" of us (different doc for each part). Now that's GOOD for the American People. And the insurance companies don't have to pay for it because they have a monopoly and can say we don't need it! And that's Good for US! B$  Our docs order medicines to treat us, but the insurance companies can counter those orders because THEY don't think we NEED what the doctor ordered! And that's GOOD for US! B$!

My opinion is simple -- PUT SOME REGULATIONS back into BIG BUSINESS! REPEAL the damn DE-regulations.  I can see where that would solve a lot of problems (financial reform - campaign reform to name a couple.). Put politicians under a microscope about every cent they receive and from WHOM.

Think I'll take a day off from the news - but it's really hard.. think I've got an addiction to it... I NEED intervention!!! :)

Guess who's exempt?

From the NY Post this morning:

Quote:

Good old Joe Biden, introducing Barack Obama at the health-care bill-signing lollapalooza in Washington yesterday, leaned over and whispered into the presidential ear (and a nearby open mike): "This is a big f---ing deal." Sure was -- though not personally to Veep Potty-Mouth, nor to the president. They're exempt, you see. Really. No worrying for them about the personal consequences of ObamaCare's overbearing regulation, worrisome coverage uncertainties and financial confusions. Same for members of the presidential Cabinet -- and all of their staff members. They and their families are exempt from the calamitous health-care "reform" plan they've hung on the rest of the country. (Think maybe they know something?) It didn't have to be this way. Last fall, Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley, ranking member of the Finance Committee, proposed that any health-care bill apply to all non-civil-service federal employees -- from Obama on down -- currently covered by the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program. But when it came time to mark up a final version of the health-care bill, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid included language that applied only to members of Congress and their personal staffers. That may well have exempted all congressional staff members employed by committees -- staffers heavily involved in actually writing the final bill. And Reid never allowed Grassley's amendment to come to the floor for debate and a vote. How typical.

For me, it's not so much about health care as it is the trashing of our Constitution.  Congress is attempting to extend their granted power to regulate inter-state commerce to also regulate intra-state commerce (you can't sell health insurance accross state lines by Congress' own doing).  They consistantly interpret the phase 'common good' to mean they can do anything that they think is good even though the framers of the Constitution said they could only provide for the common good within the listed powers.
They are turning limited government into unlimited!

Wonder if it ever occured to these idiots in DC to CONVENE a COMMITTEE on CONSTITUTIONAL LAW?

Maybe a few guys who've actually "studied" the constitution just might could EXPLAIN it to Congress.... Oh well, it's a thought... :-*

Charlie wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 6:09pm:

[quote] Cable news treats this thing like a 1940s radio soap opera. "Tune in tomorrow for the next exciting episode in the continuing battle between Glen Beck and Nancy Pelosi," and most of us do. Charlie

whatever gets ratings

BarbaraD wrote on Mar 24^th, 2010 at 9:51am:

Wonder if it ever occured to these idiots in DC to CONVENE a COMMITTEE on CONSTITUTIONAL LAW? Maybe a few guys who've actually "studied" the constitution just might could EXPLAIN it to Congress.... Oh well, it's a thought... :-*

What I find totally unbelievable is that our esteemed president used to teach constitutional law.

He knows precisely what he's doing.

The most troubling aspect to me is not necessarily the Prince of Fools, but the Sea of Fools that selected this one to be their Prince.

Brew wrote on Mar 24^th, 2010 at 1:21pm:

The most troubling aspect to me is not necessarily the Prince of Fools, but the Sea of Fools that selected this one to be their Prince.

you only had 2 choices

Quote:

Then we DEREGULATED everything... It was "good" for the American People! B$!!

Same thing in the 20s. They never learn.


Quote:

From the NY Post this morning:

The Rupert Murdoch Post. Now there's an example of that liberal-bias media.... ::)

As Jay Leno says: "Thank God for Joe Biden!"

The most dangerous thing that could be done in modern times would be to call a convention. Terrifying. Stating that everything directly involves Constitutional law rather than considered deliberation, accompanies most populist movements. It grabs attention and it's the easy way. 

Charlie

-johnny- wrote on Mar 24^th, 2010 at 2:29pm:

Brew wrote on Mar 24th, 2010 at 1:21pm: The most troubling aspect to me is not necessarily the Prince of Fools, but the Sea of Fools that selected this one to be their Prince. you only had 2 choices

That is false.

LasVegas wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 8:22pm:

A  special note to our neighbors: Canada is on List 2.  Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each  other, you folks might want to try not pissing us  off for a change.

Canadian troops are fighting and dying alongside US forces in Afghanistan. If you can't respect that, fuck off.

Easy now.....

     What Bill said.      >:( >:( >:(

    Muslims and Amish can be exempt from the health care. Along with who knows who else. And this could surprise you how?

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Mike

   

Good people of Clusterville,

I started this thread to see if any of you perceived the significance of what is happening as I have…  From the comments, some of you recognize the impact the affordable health care legislation will have on all of us.

Unfortunately, now that Obama has signed this egregious bill into law, I don't see the level of situational awareness to recognize this as another milestone in a frightening legislative agenda designed to shred the Constitution, redistribute wealth, take control of the people, and transform our great Nation into a socialist state… 

If you doubt this first statement…  listen to Rep Dingell's (D-MI) comments where he let the truth slip out on the liberal motivation and aspirations driving Obamacare…  Dingell: It will take some time to… "to take the necessary steps to control the people."

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I'll try to explain, offer a prediction and ask a few questions in an attempt to clarify what is happening as I see it…

It's not about affordable health care… It never was…  It's far more devious than that…  It's about destroying the private medical insurance industry, taking over yet another large segment of our economy, and making another large segment of the population welfare dependants of a socialist state.

This isn't the beginning and it won't be the end.  It's part of a hundred year old socialist wet dream and nightmare that's coming true at a frightening pace…  It’s about a carefully orchestrated legislative agenda being carried out by a rogue Congress and a Marxist trained community organizer in the White House. 

All this is being done under the cover of deception and misdirection as their goal is to take over our entire economy, redistribute our wealth, destroy the Constitution and turn America into a socialist state. 

If these lying weasels told you the truth about their goals, you'd call for their impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors because of their blatant acts of bribery and treason…  then have them charged and convicted for these crimes…  Seeing them do the perp walk in orange jump suits and manacles might be a good deterrent to the remaining America haters…

I can hear the wheels turning… so I'm reminded of the lead-in line and refrain from the song "Ya Got Trouble" from the Music Man…   If you don't remember the lyrics, it goes like this…

" Well… either you're closing your eyes to a situation you do not wish to acknowledge, or you are not aware of the caliber of disaster indicated by the presence of…" and I'll add…  socialists in Congress…  "Oh we got trouble…"

If you doubt what I'm saying…  just look at what's happened so far and look at their agenda of things to come…

Big government liberals have been taking an increased level of control over education for over 130 years…  Obamacare just sealed the deal and took over student tuition loans as the sole provider from Sallie Mae…  The sole provider that is, with the exception of one bank in North Dakota…  Hmmm… Perhaps this bank was a kick back bribe for a "yes" vote on Obamacare?

This Obamacare provision makes a whole new group of indentured people dependant on government and destroys another private industry. 

The home loan and auto industries are now under big government control…  The Fannie and Freddie bail out alone has created a tax liability that could dwarf the cost of Obamacare when home foreclosure rates rise due to the continued unemployment.

The financial industry – banks and thrift institutions - will fall under big government control when the Senate passes Chris Dodd's financial reform bill…  That bill will essentially give the Secretary of the Treasury the power to take over a financial institution "that's too big to fail," fire everyone, and sell off its assets… 

Today when a bank or thrift institution fails the charting authority – the state, revokes the charter, closes the bank and appoints the FDIC, an independent agency of the federal government, as the receiver.   When this bill passes the Senate and is signed into law, the Secretary of the Treasury will have the power to the same thing…  except the kicker here is the Secretary of the Treasury can do this at any time even if the bank or thrift institution hasn't failed…  In short, this power will reside in the executive branch of government…  Another power grab…

Liberals have stymied the US energy industry for well over 35 years and it's in decline with respect to production due to ever increasing big government regulations… The House passed a bill that sets a 17 percent reduction target for U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by 2020 from 2005 levels.  The Senate is working on its version of a similar bill.  When that passes, big government will have a strangle hold on the energy industry…  Thank Al Gore for this one…  And the liberals in big government will start taxing carbon emissions so they can take more of your income as a further instrument of control over your daily life…

The American Recovery And Reinvestment Act (ARRA) OF 2009, a.k.a. the porkulus act laid the groundwork for single payer social medicine with a $36 Billion dollar down payment on an Orwellian computer system and network to automate your medical records.  Provisions in the porkulus also contain the seeds to take over the Internet, the communications industry, and the news media…

My prediction…

Come January 2011 when group medical insurance policies renew, the premiums on these policies will increase anywhere between 50% and 300% to cover State and Federal insurance commission actuarial reserve and high risk pool requirements.... 

This is predictable and it was planned…   It's due to all the Obamacare mandates placed on the evil and greedy medical insurance industry that makes on average, a whopping 3% to 5% profit margin after paying out medical claims, tax and other expenses…  I know… I get the SEC filings on UNH and Aetna in the annual statement for my 301k.   

Guaranteed coverage for pre-existing conditions, the cap on out-of-pocket expenses, dropping the cap on lifetime benefits and allowing children less than 27 years of age (YGBSM) covered on their parent's medical insurance policies will be enough to trigger these increases… 

FYI, I agree with all of these provisions except for children less than 27 years of age and I also understand these provisions come with a cost…  I'd only hoped these costs could have been paid out of the Porkulus… 

When the cost of these insurance premiums go up, the Marxist trained community organizer in the White House and hopefully the lame duck liberal democrats in Congress will howl at the moon and scream…  "We told you the medical insurance companies are evil and greedy… and this is why we need a single payer, government run, social health care system."  More cover and deception…  and there goes the medical health insurance industry with more unemployment…

If you think the liberal democrats passed Obamacare because they care about you and me… think again…  All they really care about is growing a welfare class of people totally dependent on the government entitlements they've enacted…  They do this so they can remain in office and have the power to make decisions for the people.

That’s why they also want to fast-track comprehensive immigration reform to grant amnesty to over 10 million illegal aliens, give them instant citizenship and give them shiny new Obamacare cards paid for with new subsidies…  That's the only way they can stay in office… 

Now ask yourself…  Where is that money coming from to pay for these new instant US citizens?  The answer…  BOHICA and stand by for a value added tax on everything…

You've got to ask… if Obamacare is so great and it's going to be so popular… why are there provisions in this bill, as the CBO points out, that give the IRS $1 Billion extra each year for the next ten years to hire nearly 17,000 new agents to enforce it's mandates?   

These dedicated IRS agents are going to share your tax data with HHS/CMS and they're going to fine you for any non-compliance…  And, if you don't pay the fine, they'll keep any income tax refund you may have coming then they'll go after your checking account and wages…  should you be fortunate enough to have a full time job that pays more than poverty level wages…

These IRS agents are also going to monitor each and every business on a monthly basis to ensure compliance and share that information with CMS as well…   (Orwell was right) so big government now has its hooks into small business…

Now for the rapid fire round:

Does Obamacare increase the number of physicians?   No!

Does Obamacare offer any meaningful tort reform?  No!

Will Obamacare prevent medical insurance premiums from rising?  No!

Will Obamacare make your health care more affordable?  No!

Will Obamacare decrease the wait time to see your PCP?  No!

Will Obamacare increase the cost of doing business? Yes!

Will Obamacare help small businesses with less than 25 employees?  No"

When do we start paying for Obamacare?  You just started when it was signed

When will Obamacare start paying subsidies and entitlements? 2014 - 2018

Will we pay more taxes because of Obamacare? Yes!

When will Obamacare start taxing union Cadillac health care plans?  2018

Will Obamacare make it easier for us to get oxygen therapy?  No…  and here's why…

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid (CMS) started taking steps in 2009 to reduce coverage for DME Oxygen and oxygen contents for Medicare beneficiaries …  See their own projected spend plan below…  then realize the Medicare cuts that went into effect when the affordable health care bill was signed, will accelerate cuts in the DME Oxygen spend plan.  Some of you may argue that's a problem for us old folks…  and that's true, but, then you'll become one of us soon enough…

However, as coverage determinations made by the CMS bureaucrats form the coverage basis for most of the medical insurance companies and these companies also service Medicaid…  the future availability of coverage for oxygen therapy for cluster headache sufferers is in serious doubt even if you're under 65 and can afford to pay for your own medical insurance.

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The fact that CMS will cut coverage for DME oxygen for Medicare beneficiaries from $1.7 Billion in 2009 to $52 Million in 2014 should get your attention…  Then realize 99.9% of the over 1 million Medicare beneficiaries receiving oxygen therapy are COPD sufferers…  and they're not counting any of the baby boomers turning 65…

As cluster headache sufferers, we don't count… because we're not covered if we happen to be a Medicare beneficiary and don't have a Medicare Advantage or second insurance plan…   and this bill not only cuts over 500 Billion from Medicare funding, it also cuts funding for the Medicare Advantage plans too… 

In case you've not figured it out… DME stands for durable medical equipment…  that will also be subject to additional tax under provisions of Obamacare, but that's only if there are any home care companies near you that deliver your oxygen left in business…  Obamacare jumps ugly on small businesses that provide DME oxygen...

Almost done…

Does anyone really believe Obama and the liberal democrats when they say Obamacare will cut the deficit?    I sure don't.

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I don't know about you, but it's hard to get my head around numbers this big so I think of it as a debt of $691,000 per family against an average family income of $61,000, and that's far from a comforting thought…

I think we need to face up to the facts… then ask if we can really afford another massive entitlement like Obamacare when Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are approaching insolvency…

Another factoid from Michelle Bachmann…  from the 15th of October 2008 to the 24th of March 2010, the Federal Government has taken control of 50% of this Nations private economy…    Try to get your head around that!!!

Now for bonus question…  Can we really afford to stand by and let a rogue Congress and a Marxist trained community organizer in the White House continue to execute the Cloward-Piven strategy to destroy our Nation?

In 1966 when I started my career as a Navy pilot, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  For the next 24 years, the cold war enemy was the Soviet Union.  Now the enemy is domestic, in our Congress, they're far left socialists and they're attacking our Constitution… 

That oath I swore remains resolute today…  Accordingly, when the mid-term and presidential elections come around, I intend to use my Constitution right to vote these lying socialist weasels out of office by voting for conservatives… and take back my Government.

Please do your own homework to come up with your own conclusions… then vote…

God Bless America

V/R, Batch

Pete ya knows I luvs ya, but you've really got to learn to speak your mind. :)

Back in the 60s, I thought segregation was WRONG (had most of my life) and I lived in the SOUTH. I remember the riots, name calling and all the rest that went with that bill... our country was going to hell and our constitution was being trampled upon (and you're old enough to remember that also). We some mighty heated arguments in my parents home about this one.... and I was odd man out on the debate.

Even the churches were preaching against the Civil Rights Bill, but it passed and we all got on with our lives.

This bill has passed - it will be "improved" upon as months and years go by. And we will all get on with our lives.

One thing we can agree on is that Congress needs to be fired (and it don't make me a darn which brand they are - I can't tell the difference any more) and we need some Common Sense folks up there with some "ideas" on how to "improve" things for us folks back home.

But for now, I'm just gonna sit back and write my letters with my "ideas" to the "powers that be" and keep on a writing and see what happens. Been doing that since the third grade -- too old to change my ways now...
:-*

Barbara,

You're right...  Civil Rights caused a deep divide in the 60s...  The big difference here is Obamacare is going to destroy our economy...  cost us more freedoms, and tax the crap out of all of us...  civil rights didn't cost us anything...

My sister works at UC Irvine Healthcare in Orange County as an Authorization/Surgery coordinator... That's a California State run medical facility...  She says the fit has already started hit the shan over the Obamacare cuts in medicare and Medi-Cal (it's broke) with a growing list of benefits that will be denied coverage... 

The first trickle of the deluded and duped public has also started coming through the door asking for their free Obamacare surgery...

The far left liberal democrats and the Marxist trained community organizer have sold Obamacare as a pig in a poke and a chicken on every table...  except there's no pig in the poke and no chicken in the pot... only pig and chicken crap.

Hugs,

V/R, Batch

Batch wrote on Mar 25^th, 2010 at 12:46pm:

(ramble, ramble, ...) Now for the rapid fire round: Does Obamacare increase the number of physicians?   No! ... Please do your own homework to come up with your own conclusions…

Just did my own homework, and found that the reform package does increase funding for educating more nurses and doctors.  So I have to disagree with that statement of yours, along with just about everything else you wrote.  Fact finding is different from generating partisan hysteria, Batchman.

monty wrote on Mar 25^th, 2010 at 3:18pm:

Just did my own homework, and found that the reform package does increase funding for educating more nurses and doctors.  So I have to disagree with that statement of yours, along with just about everything else you wrote.  Fact finding is different from generating partisan hysteria, Batchman.

So I can add you to my thank-you list when these chickens come home to roost?

Thanks for the heads-up.

Batch wrote on Mar 25^th, 2010 at 12:46pm:

Good people of Clusterville, I started this thread to see if any of you perceived the significance of what is happening as I have...  to recognize this as another milestone in a frightening legislative agenda ... ... that's coming true at a frightening pace...

As a new elected Democratic president made his way to the White House, the opposing political candidate lay asleep stretched in full length on the sofa in his melancholy home as his wife paced, a visitor recalled.  Thin and white, covered from head to foot with a dark cloak, which looked like a black pall.  Uncertainty of the future increased official gloom.  A friend penned: 

"... My opinion is
That when he comes he will bring a breeze with him.
Which way it will blow, I cannot tell. ...
My fear is stronger than ...


As perceived, I'll check under the bed tonight.  Thanks. 




The 80's secular evangelist style, like marketing a reintroduced Pacer as the "now" luxury car, has associative tangents.

Whew.

When it comes to "shredding" the Constitution, George Bush rewrote the script.

Charlie

Charlie wrote on Mar 25^th, 2010 at 6:43pm:

Whew. When it comes to "shredding" the Constitution, George Bush rewrote the script. Charlie

How so, compared to what's going on right now?

I don't have a problem with a well written reform of health care in this country, if the people are for it.  However this was neither well written nor are the people for it.

I can only hope they fix as many problems as they can QUICKLY!!!!

"I will not sign a bill if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future, period."
-Barack Obama-

How can this be said over and over when we can't even pay for the entitlements currently in place?

Can someone please elevate my hopes and name me a few endeavors taken on by the US Government that was not plagued with enormous cost overruns or involved deficit spending. Please, please tell me.

I guess we're going to find out. Trouble is if this thing goes badly it's going to go real bad...and oops ain't going to get it.

Steve G

Hey Monty,

Thanks for the comments…  I'd only hoped you would have come up with something a little more challenging...  But then at least you took the bait...

You're absolutely correct…  There is funding for new doctors… 

The ARRA 2009 a.k.a. porculus authorized $300 million to the National Health Service Corps to Support Health Professions Educational Loan Repayment and Scholarships for doctors, dentists, nurses, and medical technicians… for 2009... see page 129 -131 Subtitle B—Health and Human Services sub para (4)... 

"(4) $600,000,000, of which $300,000,000 shall not be available until October 1, 2009, shall be for the training of nurses and primary care physicians and dentists as authorized under titles VII and VIII of the PHS Act, for the provision of health care personnel under the National Health Service Corps program authorized under title III of the PHS Act, and for the patient navigator program authorized undertitle III of the PHS Act.

Assuming this attracts more potential doctors to attend medical school, and at least half of the $300 Million is used by medical school applicants, that works out to 800 new doctors in the National Health Service Corps at an average cost of $186,000 to complete medical school…

Page 1295-1296 of the 24 Dec 2009 Senate version of Obamacare provides the following:

b) PROGRAM ADMINISTRATION.—Through the program established under this section, the Secretary shall enter into contracts with qualified health professionals  (Doctors, RNs, Med Techs) under which—

(1) such qualified health professionals will agree to provide pediatric medical subspecialty, pediatric surgical specialty, or child and adolescent mental and behavioral health care in an area with a shortage of the specified pediatric subspecialty that has a sufficient pediatric population to support such pediatric subspecialty, as determined by the Secretary; and

(2) the Secretary agrees to make payments on the principal and interest of undergraduate, graduate, or graduate medical education loans of professionals described in paragraph of not more than $35,000 a year for each year of agreed upon service under such paragraph for a period of not more than 3 years during the qualified health professional’s

‘‘(A) participation in an accredited pediatric medical subspecialty, pediatric surgical specialty, or child and adolescent mental health subspecialty residency or fellowship; or

‘‘(B) employment as a pediatric medical subspecialist, pediatric surgical specialist, or child and adolescent mental health professional serving an area or population described in such paragraph.

Putting all this in perspective...  There were 16,468 matriculants from US medical schools in the 2008-2009 time frame…  (AAMC DW:Student, as of September 1, 2009 - AAMC FACTS website, START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE).

So… assuming 4 years to complete medical school (and that's a low-ball estimate) and 3+ years to complete Internship/Residency requirements (plus 1 to 2 years fellowship if you want a trained neurologist or surgeon) and they pass all the "boards…" the ARRA could be responsible for the delivery of 800 new doctors by 2018…  IF they start medical school this fall… and you are authorized to receive medical care from the National Health Service Corps... i.e. the VA, NIH, and the Military Service Hospitals... 

The Obamacare legislation is a little more vague but the bottom line is clear…   If the Secretary of HHS agrees, and the physician is willing to relocate to an area underserved by pediatricians, Obamacare will pay off loans at a rate of not more than $35,000/year for not more than three years for physicians who want to specialize in pediatrics…  but this provision is kind of fuzzy as it gives no limits on the total authorization authority or the number of recipients... only that it ends after the third year… 

and I'm positive that Obamacare is not going to let you and me go to a pediatrician for our health care...

What I can say is that princess Pelosi is Not the most powerful woman in the US Government…  it's "Abort'em All" Kathleen Gilligan Sebelius…  the Secretary of Health and Human Services… 

A review of the Senate version of Obamacare indicates over 2000 instances of "The Secretary – (of Health and Human Services)… shall…"

This little lady is going to be jumping faster that a grasshopper on an anthill with all the tasks Obamacare has laid on her…

Then there's the statistics on doctors leaving medical practice…  and these are a bit fuzzy, but it's clear the trend is up…  They're bailing out like rats deserting a sinking ship...  One survey of US physicians I looked at indicated only 18% planned to continue a full time private medical practice past the age of 50…

With the average cost of malpractice insurance between $20,000 and $200,000 per year depending on the state…  near as I can figure after running the numbers… most new physicians in private practice end up working at an effective take home salary after taxes…  not much better than the average McDonald's day manager's wages their first few years in medical practice…

Accordingly… I'll stand by my original statement…  You and I are not going to see the number of doctors that treat us increase any time soon… 

Moreover, when the 32 million new Obamacare recipients begin to demand their entitlements starting in 2014 along with the 10 to 15 million illegal aliens that the Marxist trained community organizer and rogue congress grant amnesty with instant citizenship so they can have a shiny new Obamacare card...  You and I will be blocks away waiting in line for a very long time...  to see a doctor.

Take care all...  and BOHICA…  the silly reconciliation of Obamacare just passed the House... and they've still got to fund an additional $200 Billion for the "Medicare Doctor Fix"...

Hmmm...  looks like that $170 Billion cut in the deficit by 2018 will be more like a $2.5 Trillion increase in the deficit...  so the Marxist trained community organizer and rogue Congress lied. What else is new?

And Kevin... just make sure the wind at your backside is not your own when you check under the bed...

V/R, Batch

Batch wrote on Mar 25^th, 2010 at 10:37pm:

... just make sure the wind at your backside is not your own when you check under the bed...

I closed this window, all was clear.  No dust from the 80's.

The fact is that the Bill has passed and now it would behove us all to write, call, e-mail or fax our "representatives" suggestions to IMPROVE it. And it does need improving in a lot of areas. But instead of calling each other names and wasting a lot of hot air, why not suggest improvements to make it WORK better.

Right now I'm looking at things from a personal point of view. My son's company cancelled insurance for employees so they're dependent upon his wife's insurance to cover them and she's really wanting to quit and find other employment, but can't because of the insurance on the kids. One child has a "little" problem and it would (up until Tuesday) been a problem getting a policy if she did quit. Now she doesn't have to worry about "pre-existing" condition on the baby. To me that's worth a lot (I spent years without any insurance because of CH, so I know what it's like NOT to be able to be sick).

And as far as the deficit goes -- didn't putting the costs of the WAR (which have been convenietly left out for years) in the budget kinda raise that?

I'm not crazy about the "mandated" clause in the Bill, but a lot of states have that already (I think there's about 10 or 12 that do) just like they do with car insurance. The argument is - is it constitutional for the feds to tell the states that they have to mandate it.... guess the courts will decide that, but the states that have it are working out fine from what I understand.

And we're paying for the illegals as it is (in the ERs). I don't agree with that, but I didn't read where they'll be covered in this bill.

And I think after 40 years in Congress they should give some of those guys a gold watch and a nice "thank you" go home!  :-*

Quote:

Come January 2011

Throw the crowd a few loaves of bread up front and hit them with the pay part a month after the elections.  Do ya think that was planned?

Quote:

A mandate requiring all individuals to purchase health insurance would be an unprecedented form of federal action. The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States. An individual mandate would have two features that, in combination, would make it unique. First, it would impose a duty on individuals as members of society. Second, it would require people to purchase a specific service that would be heavily regulated by the federal government.[1] This statement from a 1994 Congressional Budget Office Memorandum remains true today.

Read the whole thing at:

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BarbaraD.
To my knowledge (and limited research on the matter),  MA is the only state that REQUIRES coverage.

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For those of you that are looking for immediate relief, best hold on.

The Wall Street Journal developed a timeline of the various provisions of the bill:

2010

Coverage

Subsidies begin for small businesses to provide coverage to employees.
Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to children with pre-existing illness.
Children permitted to stay on their parents’ insurance policies until their 26th birthday.

2011

Coverage

Set up long-term care program under which people pay premiums into system for at least five years and become eligible for support payments if they need assistance in daily living.
Taxes and fees

Drug makers face annual fee of $2.5 billion (rises in subsequent years).

2013

Taxes and fees

New Medicare taxes on individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and couples filing jointly earning more than $250,000 a year.
Tax on wages rises to 2.35% from 1.45%.
New 3.8% tax on unearned income such as dividends and interest.
Excise tax of 2.3% imposed on sale of medical devices.
Cost control

Medicare pilot program begins to test bundled payments for care, in a bid to pay for quality rather than quantity of services.

2014

Coverage

Create exchanges where people without employer coverage, as well as small businesses, can shop for health coverage. Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to anyone with pre-existing illness.
Requirement begins for most people to have health insurance. Subsidies begin for lower and middle-income people. People at 133% of federal poverty level pay maximum of 3% of income for coverage. People at 400% of poverty level pay up to 9.5% of income. (Poverty level currently is about $22,000 for a family of four.)
Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor, expands to all Americans with income up to 133% of federal poverty level.
Subsidies for small businesses to provide coverage increase. Businesses with 10 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $25,000 receive tax credit of up to 50% of employer’s contribution. Tax credits phase out for larger businesses.
Taxes and fees

Employers with more than 50 employees that don’t provide affordable coverage must pay a fine if employees receive tax credits to buy insurance. Fine is up to $3,000 per employee, excluding first 30 employees.
Insurance industry must pay annual fee of $8 billion (rises in subsequent years).
Cost control

Independent Medicare board must begin to submit recommendations to curb Medicare spending, if costs are rising faster than inflation.

2016

Taxes and fees

Penalty for those who don’t carry coverage rises to 2.5% of taxable income or $695, whichever is greater.

2017

Coverage

Businesses with more than 100 employees can buy coverage on insurance exchanges, if state permits it.

2018

Taxes and fees

Excise tax of 40% imposed on health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage
As we move toward the 2010 midterm elections, be assured: passage of this bill will play a prominent role in each party’s election strategy.

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Other changes in 2010

Also, individuals that have not had health insurance for 6 months will receive a subsidy to enroll in high-risk insurance pools run by the states.  (Hope those subsidies are very good.  Currently my daughter is in the high risk pool run by the state.  Her insurance costs $2400.00 a year, with a $2500 deductible for medical and $250 for pharmacy).  Then it pays at 80%.

In 2014, the majority of Americans will gain benefits from the new health care bill.

So, the way I read this, we will be paying for 4 years before any significant gains are made. 

Quote:

Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to children with pre-existing illness.

Is this something that they "fixed" in the Senate reconciliation bill the last few days? Because the way I heard it, while our illustrious leader had been touting this, it didn't actually go into effect (the way the language was written) until 2014.

Warren Buffet - “There’s class warfare all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” 

Social Security was established as greatest self-funded (employees/employers) program to provide retirement and survivor benefits to working Americans.  In the original legislation money accumulating in the Social Security Trust was not to be spent for any other government purposes.  Since its beginning payments into the Trust have exceeded payments out.  Trillions in principal should be collecting massive interest for the Trust. 

Government (Democrats and Republicans) decided they could spend those accumulating trillions for government operations.  Even as payments into the system are projected to dip below payouts, government continues skimming every extra dollar from Social Security.  Our money has been replaced by worthless IOU’s backed by a government $12 Trillion in debt.  Surprise!!!  Congress and top government officials are exempt from participating in Social Security.  They kept their lavish taxpayer funded retirement programs and then call the program we’re forced to pay into an “Entitlement Program”.       

In 1993 Bill Clinton inherited the world's strongest economy with middle class Americans enjoying the highest standard of living in history.  His administration left in 2001 after destroying middle class America with… 
NAFTA
Permanent “free-trade” agreements with China
Removal of all “fair trade” protections in GATT
Subsidizing corporations with tax dollars for moving jobs overseas
Changing Glass-Steagall to restore pre-great depression influence to the banking industry (brilliant)
Revising unemployment calculations to disguise job losses from the $1-Trillion annual trade deficit generated by one-sided “free trade”

Ross Perot warned American’s that Washington was selling out our economy and standard of living.   No one listened.               

The Bush administration expanded “free trade”, corporate welfare, and foreign nation building.  The administration entered into ill advised wars that generate massive profits for politically aligned corporations and expand foreign economies at U.S. taxpayer expense. 

Now the Obama administration forces Healthcare Reform down our throats.  Not much has been reformed, healthcare and healthcare insurance costs increasing several time faster than the rate of inflation remain.  If you happen to be one of the growing numbers of underemployed you will however be forced to pay for it whether you can afford it or not, while others get a free ride.  Surprise!!! Congress and top government officials are once again exempt from their own legislation and get to keep their lavish taxpayer subsidized healthcare programs.  Sounds like an old familiar scam.

Both parties are responsible for the $12 trillion national debt and economic meltdown from job losses fueled by one-sided "Free Trade" agreements.  Now after sucking exorbitant personal wealth from deregulation and “free trade”, executives and wealthy investors stuffed their pockets with government granted taxpayer dollars, covered up illegal accounting practices and fraud while taxpayers bailed out the corporations they plundered.                
      
We’re here because Americans accept corruption and treason as leadership.  As both parties legislate American’s into indentured servitude and abolish individual freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution, gullible Americans dutifully re-elect party endorsed, corporate sponsored chameleons that continue the sellout. 

burnt-toast
(Tom)

Stop it, Tom. Your head is going to explode.

Tell us how you really feel. ;)

Tom,
nice post I couldn't agree more.  with all the corporate money piling in to elections, how do "we the people" work to fix or at least address this problem...aside from education of the masses?  of course I am assuming that electing those who wish to serve for the greater good would be the start, but how do we get them into office?

republican or democrat, what is the difference?  either way you have the feds pushing social programs that cannot be funded (drug benefit from dubya and obamacare).  I am not happy with my healthcare but having a large inefficient bureaucracy in charge of it certainly will be worse.  why do people want to become or remain dependent on government.  Not being a big Reagan fan, he did get it right in saying that government was the problem rather than the solution. 

Nicely written Tom. Those who know me know I try to stay out of politics. I vote my opinion but for the most part stay away from all the endless arguments.

That being said, I'm convinced a good percentage of our problems could be fixed very quickly if our elected officials were bound by the same laws they pass. It's scary that they continue to exempt themselves from every law passed...(no sides here, that's the republicans, democrats, independents, green peace, liberatarians etc....) The sheer arrogance of saying it's right for the people...just not the right thing for US....kinda sorta galls me! ;)

Next up on the soap box??

Joe

Speaking of the law not applying to all (and I don't know if this is just Louisiana or not).  OUr estemed legislators cannot get a speeding ticket if they are traveling to a legislative session~one Charles *Cocaine* Jones was stopped for doing 80 in a 50, it was dropped for this reason.

Quote:

AT&T said Friday that it is preparing for President Obama's health care overhaul to cost the telecommunications giant an additional $1 billion in expenses in the first quarter, possibly forcing the company to cut benefits it offers to current and retired workers.

Jobs, jobs, jobs - gone.

We’re here because Americans accept corruption and treason as leadership.  As both parties legislate American’s into indentured servitude and abolish individual freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution, gullible Americans dutifully re-elect party endorsed, corporate sponsored chameleons that continue the sellout. 

I'm going to start using that as my tag line.  Very, very well said!

Bob P wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 7:14pm:

Jobs, jobs, jobs - gone.

Both John Deere (Moline, IL) and Caterpillar (Peoria, IL) made similar announcements this week. Both headquartered in our illustrious leader's "home" state (no, not Kenya).

deltadarlin wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 6:30pm:

Speaking of the law not applying to all (and I don't know if this is just Louisiana or not).  OUr estemed legislators cannot get a speeding ticket if they are traveling to a legislative session~one Charles *Cocaine* Jones was stopped for doing 80 in a 50, it was dropped for this reason.

Please don't take offense but every time I think Louisiana politics, I think Grand Wizard vs Convicted Felon.  (Edwards v Duke)

Batch wrote on Mar 25^th, 2010 at 10:37pm:

Hey Monty, Thanks for the comments…  I'd only hoped you would have come up with something a little more challenging...  But then at least you took the bait...

"took the bait." It's not a game. This is what's wrong with what used to be the GOP. They look at it only as points to use to destroy the opposition at the expense of the public.

So we can stop this tiresome thing, please run against overturning the bill that for the first time prevents evil insurance companies from denying coverage whenever they feel like it....Please..

Charlie, who misses real Republicans.

Quote:

Accordingly… I'll stand by my original statement…  You and I are not going to see the number of doctors that treat us increase any time soon…

Batch,

aside from increasing funding to medical and nursing schools to add more seats and faculty, aside from better loans and scholarships to attract more students and let them graduate with less debt, what do you suggest? Your right, that isn't an overnight fix. It takes a few years to gear up and educate more doctors.  What is your solution to increase the number of doctors by yesterday???

Well that's obvious - just throw more money at it!

It seems to be the current fashion for everything that ails us. Why not, we can just keep printing more.

I had read a quote a while back, that I thought was pretty good. May not be in the exact words and I don't remember who said it, but it went something like this.

Democrats are here to screw everything up.

Republicans are here to make sure it doesn't get fixed.

Or something like that.

Mike

FramCire wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 8:21pm:

deltadarlin wrote on Mar 26th, 2010 at 6:30pm: Speaking of the law not applying to all (and I don't know if this is just Louisiana or not).  OUr estemed legislators cannot get a speeding ticket if they are traveling to a legislative session~one Charles *Cocaine* Jones was stopped for doing 80 in a 50, it was dropped for this reason. Please don't take offense but every time I think Louisiana politics, I think Grand Wizard vs Convicted Felon.  (Edwards v Duke)

No offense, I'm originally from Mississippi anyway, so I can always claim allegiance there  ;D

Anybody want to tell me what the following section/subsection of the bill has to do with healthcare?

13 PART I—INVESTING IN STUDENTS AND FAMILIES
14 SEC. 2101. FEDERAL PELL GRANTS.

deltadarlin wrote on Mar 27^th, 2010 at 10:10am:

Please don't take offense but every time I think Louisiana politics, I think Grand Wizard vs Convicted Felon.  (Edwards v Duke)No offense, I'm originally from Mississippi anyway, so I can always claim allegiance there  ;D Anybody want to tell me what the following section/subsection of the bill has to do with healthcare? 13 PART I—INVESTING IN STUDENTS AND FAMILIES 14 SEC. 2101. FEDERAL PELL GRANTS.

Easy.

Nothing.

Something for everyone here:

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Charlie

Brew wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 8:02pm:

Bob P wrote on Mar 26th, 2010 at 7:14pm: Jobs, jobs, jobs - gone. Both John Deere (Moline, IL) and Caterpillar (Peoria, IL) made similar announcements this week. Both headquartered in our illustrious leader's "home" state (no, not Kenya).

about a year ago cat announced they will no longer be making engines for heavy trucks due to strict emission standards set forth by the EPA. i dunno if they followed through with that but that was the plan.

A different opinion

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But every time the fiscal facts presented clearly, the folks in Washington from the President on down laugh - then attempt to discredit the messenger.

Sure anyone can juggle the absolute numbers but one fact remains constant:

We, as a nation continue to spend money that we do not have. We have done this for years, but now we are accelerating the spending at an alarming rate. Debt isn't always bad - but too much debt is very bad.

There are dire (perhaps disastrous) consequences to doing this at the grand scale which we approach. We are no longer "too big to fail."

Marc

Hey Monty,

Thanks for the reply and good question...  You wanted my opinion, so here it comes... straight from the head and heart without ideological banter as I know we think so much alike when it comes to cluster headaches...

I'll be the first to admit I don't have all the answers...  I do know that growing a crop of new doctors and increasing the numbers of primary care physicians (PCP)/family doctors, involves a complex equation and nothing can speed up the process... 

11-13 years for a high school graduate and 7-9 years for a college graduate is a reasonable minimum bogey to produce a doctor... 

I know...  I was pre-med working on an undergraduate degree in chemistry going through the U of W in Seattle until I got a flight in a Navy T-34 near the end of my Junior year...  a few weeks before I was scheduled to take the MCAT...

After that, the decision between spending 18 months after graduation in the Aviation Training Command to get my Navy wings so I could fly fighters… and spending 7 to 9 more years of med school, internship/residency and fellowship before being able to hang out my shingle was an easy choice... and it wasn't about the money...  An Ensign's monthly pay in those days was $325 plus $25 hazard/flight pay for the privilege of getting shot off the pointy end of the boat day and night...

There aren't enough PCPs/family doctors or physician's assistants (PA) around now...  There's a very real shortage and it's not getting any better.  If there were any real incentives to keep more around past the age of 50, we might be able to start bridging the shortage gap.

There are a lot of excellent articles addressing the flow of physicians from private family practice…  The following link provides a good coverage on this topic:

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We need incentives to keep qualified PCPs/family doctors in practice as long as possible and to attract more into this segment of the medical profession... 

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be any legislation over the past 15 years or more that provides the incentives for physician to stay in practice or to entice more applicants into the medical profession...  That's not to say they don't exist... if they do, they're not very effective.

Spending $1Billion a year on 16,500 new IRS agents for 10 years isn't the kind of incentive that will attract qualified people into the medical profession either.

You and I can disagree on the direction the administration and congress are taking the country, but I think it's safe to say we can agree that we'd like to see some meaningful medical tort reform...  This wouldn't cost us any new taxes and it could save billions each year...

If we want to demonize an industry that costs us untold wealth, then I think it's time to put some controls on lawyers with meaningful medical tort reform.

Meaningful medical tort reform won't put a dent in the growing deficit, but it will remove some of the negative factors affecting the decision process that qualified people with the desire to enter the medical profession go through...

I've spent 10 of the last 15 years as a professional guinea pig at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, MD.  I was a participant in four clinical studies trying to keep my eyes from falling out...   

With labs and exams every month and some times every two weeks for 10 years in a row, I've had the opportunity to spend a good deal of time with some incredibly brilliant physicians...

Every physician I spoke with spent time in private practice, but chose to enter the field of medical research to avoid clinical practice, malpractice insurance and the constant threat of litigation...  Moreover, all commented on the fact that private practice had become a numbers game... 

They had to see 30 to 35 patients a day, sometimes spending as little as 5 to 7 minutes per patient (they had to spend two to three times that on the patient's paperwork) in an attempt to make ends meet... only to have Medicare or Medicaid stiff them with underpayments after waiting as much as two months to see any payment at all.   

The shear bulk of bureaucratic regulations associated with Medicare and HMOs required additional clerical staff each year just to do the mandated paperwork.  One slip in documenting the Healthcare Common Procedure Coding System (HCPCS) entry in a patient's records and Medicare would refuse to cover the medial procedure or it would counter with another HCPCS code that pays a fraction of the actual cost.

For some, the decision to leave private practice and enter medical research was a simple matter of economics, for the majority, it was a better use of their skills, training and expertise so they could do the science and still spend quality time with the few patients they do see.

I spent an average of 30 minutes each month with the same ophthalmologist having my eyes examined and going over the results of the various eye tests I had each visit.  I also spent another 20 minutes each month with the study's Primary Investigator going over my labs and progress in the study...  All of it was quality time and I left each visit at NIH with accurate information on my condition and progress within the study.

Do we really need 16,500 more IRS agents at a cost of $1 Billion dollars a year for the next 10 years?  How is the IRS is going to improve the quality our health care or relieve the shortage of PCPs and PAs? 

Why don't we demand an amendment that scraps the IRS enforcement provision in the present HC bill completely and use funding from the porkulus as an incentive for more qualified students to enter the medical profession with student loans...  that would be paid in full if they entered family practice in designated urban and rural areas for a minimum of 5 years...  The Military Services have done this for years.

A billion dollars would fund 6000 new doctors or a mix of PCPs, PAs and RNs... we need more PAs and RNs too!  Why not take $10 Billion from the porkulus and make it $1 Billion a year for 10 years if the medical schools can handle the load...  now we're talking 60,000 more PCPs, PAs and RNs...

This would work, but it needs come from the top and it must be sincere...  I remember when President Kennedy said we're going to put a man on the moon in 1962...  The education system reacted overnight with a new and genuine emphasis promoting math and science classes to grow the needed engineers and scientists...

The co-pay for office calls on a PCP needs to be increased for all but the most destitute when seeing a PCP...  You can't go to your local Urgent Care facility for less than $100 a visit...

I'm sure there are other potentially effective incentives… but this is a start.

Take care

V/R, Batch

I agree with scraping the IRS auditors. We've got too darn many as it is. And they need to concentrate on anything besides the Joe Smith's trying to get by.

People don't realize that audits cost the taxpayer money (and I'm not talking about the agent's paycheck). Right now I'm in an audit with the IRS on a client. We began in Febuary and MUST be finished by April. So far it's cost the taxpayer over $2000 to BE AUDITED. And that's just my fees.

The bad part is that if they disallowed everything on the return it wouldn't make a scape of difference in what he owes (he had a deficit that year). We've proven every expense and reported every cent of income. But now he's retired, scared to death and it's costing him out the yang yang to PROVE he didn't do anything wrong. And we're NOT thru yet.

This client can afford it, but what about Sam Jones who doesn't have an accountant and goes before these people alone? He's pretty much screwed by the time they confuse the hell out of him and browbeat him (most people don't even have a clue what's going on and the IRS counts on that for intimidation.).

I'm all for saving that billion and spending it MORE wisely.

There is so much fraud in EIC payments it's not even funny. That should have been eliminated before it began.

You just said the words (IRS) that pushed my button... Sorry for the rant.

Hugs BD :-*

Very interesting.