Dad of a fallen Marine perseveres against protests at military funerals
Tue Mar 30, 2010

Washington – A father of a Marine killed in Iraq says he won't pay the legal fees of a protest group who picketed at his son's funeral in 2006 – at least not until he hears from the US Supreme Court on the matter.

Albert Snyder, whose son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, was killed in Iraq, learned Friday that a federal appeals court is requiring him to pay more than $16,000 in legal fees to the Westboro Baptist Church, a Christian fundamentalist group that demonstrates during military funerals to gain attention for its antigovernment, antihomosexual message. The group rallied at Matthew Snyder’s funeral in March 2006 in Westminster, Md., chanting antigay slogans and carrying signs such as “Thank God for dead soldiers,” says Albert Snyder’s attorney, Sean Summers.

The group was protesting about 30 feet from the church’s main entrance, and Mr. Snyder had to enter through a separate entrance, Mr. Summers says.

Snyder subsequently sued the Westboro group for emotional distress and won a $5 million judgment. But on appeal, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals reversed, finding in favor of protecting the protesters' free-speech rights. About three weeks ago, the Supreme Court agreed to take the case and is expected to hear it in the fall. (Last year, the high court had declined to take up the issue.) Meanwhile, the circuit court has ordered Snyder, a salesman, to pay the church’s court expenses.

Snyder, of York, Pa., told Fox News on Tuesday that he would not pay the Westboro Baptist Church "until I hear from the Supreme Court."

Westboro Baptist Church, which is based in Kansas, plans to protest in Florida on Wednesday, outside a funeral for a Marine killed in Helmand Province in southern Afghanistan on March 22.

“Military funerals have become pagan orgies of idolatrous blasphemy, where they pray to the dunghill gods of Sodom and play taps to a fallen fool,” states a press release posted on the church’s website, announcing the rally at a memorial service for Lance Cpl. Justin Wilson. At the bottom of the press release are printed the words “Thank God for IEDs,” referring to the roadside bombs that have killed thousands of troops in both wars.

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Good for you Mr. Snyder.
I would not pay WBC a dime no matter what court ordered me to do so.

>:(

R.I.P. Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder.

KingOfPain wrote on Apr 1^st, 2010 at 12:04pm:

Good for you Mr. Snyder. I [b]would not pay WBC a dime no matter what court ordered me to do so. >:( R.I.P. Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder.

Ditto to that.
And the judge that ordered the father to pay should be removed from the bench.

I viewed a video recently of a college student who was counter protesting by having people make donations to groups that Westboro Church protested against. Thank you letters were sent to the church for every donation made.  Can't remember where I saw it.

Many may not agree with the man's politics, but I am glad he stepped up.

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Quote:

Snyder subsequently sued the Westboro group for emotional distress and won a $5 million judgment. ... the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals reversed ... ... requiring him to pay more than $16,000 in legal fees to the Westboro Baptist Church ...

It was originally a judgment, but there is no mention of any $5 million paid having to be returned, probably withheld pending appeal. 

This $16,000 payment seems also a judgment, though the article states the $5 mil as a judgment and the reversal decision of $16,000 as a requirement for some reason, isn't it also a judgment and withholdable pending this appeal?



Quote:

(Last year, the high court had declined to take up the issue.)

I wonder why, but now they will.  Their opinions will be interesting.

I'd need help understanding this one.

I belong to a group called the Patriot Guard, it is a group that is spread across the US Vets like me that ride Harleys and when groups like this show up so do we. We place ourselves between these whack jobs and the families holding American flags and if they chant we rev our engines to keep the families from hearing them. How can these people sleep at night with the kind of pain they inflict on others? Is it not bad enough they have lost a loved one, a child, a brother or sister or mother or father? No matter what your feelings about the war how could anyone inflict this kind of pain on someone already at their breaking point?
Like so many others I wish we were not there but dam it I am a vet and I support the people that are there and the job they have been ordered to carry out, these idiots act like they have a choice do they not realize that GI means Government Issue and it means just that the soldiers are the property of the government and will carry out the orders of its commander and chief no questions asked or go to Leavenworth for life at hard labor. I served during peace time and did not have to go to war but when I was in I knew it could have happened at any time and no matter the reason I would have done my duty and been proud to have done it. Sorry for ranting but these protesters get my blood boiling, if they lost a love one and had people do this to them I bet they would feel a little different.

Quote:

How can these people sleep at night with the kind of pain they inflict on others?

They don't give a rat's a$$ about other people's feelings. No empathy whatsoever. They have sold their souls to the devil.

They sleep fine in this life. Not sure about the next.

I hate hate mongers. I'm like you Matt...everytime I read where they have popped up at a funeral my blood boils.

If the Supreme Court will uphold this original judgement and go after monies, properties and anything else they can get ahold up, maybe it will shut them up.

It worked pretty good for the Aryan nations and the KKK.

Thank you Matt - for being part of the Patriot Guard.  You, and all like you, are heaven sent - and are my heroes.

Well said, Pat.  I thank you too, Matt.  My very good friend's husband is also a Patriot Guard.

Isn't it ironic that those idiots people are exerting their rights to the 1st amendment, a right that other soldiers died to ensure?  I'll bet they never look at it that way.

Jeannie

My hero, too Matt!  Thank you for putting yourselves between the sleezes of the world and those people who are devastated by the loss of a loved one.

I've read a little about the Westboro "Baptist" Church.  I cannot believe that mainstream true Baptists condone what this so called church is doing.  I think I read somewhere that the church has less than 100 members, all of whom are related to the founder (inbreeding?).

What a bunch of - I'm too much of a lady to say that word, plus DJ would probably put me in time out.

Sandy

Donations are pouring in...............

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Thanks Matt!  You guys in IL were there when a friend of my daughter's was buried a couple of years ago.  I made it a point to not only shake hands with and thank the Marines on Honor Guard but also each of the Vets in the Patriot Guard who rarely if ever were thanked for the job they did while serving.  You guys are why we still have a country.

What really burns me is the way the media portrays the "protesters" as "Christian Fundamentalists".  They are neither!  I am a Christian fundamentalist, which simply means I believe in the fundamentals of the Scriptural teaching.  I believe it to be inerrant and inspired by God and attempt to follow it as best I can.  These idiots use the church as a tax-exempt smoke screen to hide behind and to claim "religious liberty" and "free speech" protection when most of them are lawyers using their "protests" to litigate agains anyone who tries to stop their bigotry and hatred.  They've managed to make a pretty good living at it so far.

Why is it OK in the media to bash Christians every time they find a nutjob that claims Christianity, but cannot call an Islamic terrorist by his true identity? 

Jerry

(It should be pointed out that Jim and Linda are members of the Patriot Guard, too.)

Well, thank you to Jim and Linda too!! 

From the heart,

Jeannie

Everytime I read of these bottom feeders, it strikes me that never have I seen a more un-Christian thing.

It also surprises me that someone, not necessarily ex-military, hasn't taken out a few of them--as unproductive but so tempting as that would be
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What a horror story.

Charlie

Don't have to have a bike to be a member of the Patriot Guard and don't have to be a member of the Patriot Guard to participate (although I did join).  Several years ago, they were burying a fallen soldier in a town about an hour from here.  Supposedly, the Westboro bunch had posted that they were going to be there.  So, we joined up with a bunch of the local bikers, Patriot Guard and several students from the local college to make sure that these scum-sucking bottom feeders didn't get a chance to ruin the funeral.

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Quote:

I belong to a group called the Patriot Guard, it is a group that is spread across the US Vets like me that ride Harleys and when groups like this show up so do we. We place ourselves between these whack jobs and the families holding American flags and if they chant we rev our engines to keep the families from hearing them.

Mat, Jim and I are members also.  We have been to many funerals of fallen soldiers to show our respect and one in which those hate mongers showed up with their awful signs.  These people spend many, many  thousands of dollars a year in airfare to do this. 

The one I attended where they protested...there were 3 of them and 500 of our bikers making a lot of noise to drown them out.  LOL   Priceless!!!!!!!!   Beside the PGR from our town...there were at least 7 states who rode in to honor this young man.   I could not have been prouder to be a part of something than I was that day.

   If any of you old timers remember Tanner...he was PGR also. 

My hat is off to each and every one of you who honor these fallen hero's and their families by doing what you do!!  As an old Marine, I would never trust myself to be that close to those " scum sucking bottom feeders" as deltadarlin so eloquently put it (she left out a few other words that I would have chosen to describe them)!!  If I were to live to 150 I would never be able to understand how a person could be capable of speading so much HATE and MISERY upon another human being!!

DD

That's what happens when notions of free speech are elevated above decency - we get 'constitutional protection' for people to harass others while they are trying to bury a loved one.

I personally think we need a law making it illegal to disrupt funerals. I don't care if the funeral is for a hero or vicious criminal ... when the person has died, let the family grieve in peace. If people want to exercise their free speech and speak poorly of the dead person (fairly or not), let them do it across town or online, but not at or near a funeral. 

And it doesn't have to be the Federal Gov't that does it. Each state could pass that law in fact I think Iowa has something similiar.

monty wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2010 at 2:50pm:

That's what happens when notions of free speech are elevated above decency - we get 'constitutional protection' for people to harass others while they are trying to bury a loved one. I personally think we need a law making it illegal to disrupt funerals. I don't care if the funeral is for a hero or vicious criminal ... when the person has died, let the family grieve in peace. If people want to exercise their free speech and speak poorly of the dead person (fairly or not), let them do it across town or online, but not at or near a funeral.

Texas has that covered [see below].  ;)
It sure would be nice if all other states [other than the states that have already done so] enacted a law to cover funerals as Texas has.
In fact, citizens need to insist that it happens.


PENAL CODE

TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY

CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES

Sec. 42.055.  FUNERAL SERVICE DISRUPTIONS.  (a) In this section:

(1)  "Facility" means a building at which any portion of a funeral service takes place, including a funeral parlor, mortuary, private home, or established place of worship.

(2)  "Funeral service" means a ceremony, procession, or memorial service, including a wake or viewing, held in connection with the burial or cremation of the dead.

(3)  "Picketing" means:

(A)  standing, sitting, or repeated walking, riding, driving, or other similar action by a person displaying or carrying a banner, placard, or sign;

(B)  engaging in loud singing, chanting, whistling, or yelling, with or without noise amplification through a device such as a bullhorn or microphone; or

(C)  blocking access to a facility or cemetery being used for a funeral service.

(b)  A person commits an offense if, during the period beginning one hour before the service begins and ending one hour after the service is completed, the person engages in picketing within 1,000 feet of a facility or cemetery being used for a funeral service.

(c)  An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.

Added by Acts 2006, 79th Leg., 3rd C.S., Ch. 2, Sec. 1, eff. May 19, 2006.

Amended by:

Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 256, Sec. 1, eff. June 4, 2007.

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monty wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2010 at 2:50pm:

I personally think we need a law making it illegal to disrupt funerals.

From Wikipedia:

Responses
Laws limiting funeral protests

In response to the protests conducted by Westboro members at Indiana funerals, a bill was introduced in the Indiana General Assembly that would make it a felony to protest within 500 feet (approximately 150 meters) of a funeral. The bill provides penalties of up to three years in prison and a $10,000 fine for those found to be in violation of the law. Shortly before this bill was signed members of the church had threatened to protest in Kokomo, Indiana, at a funeral service that was being held for a soldier who was killed in Iraq. On January 11, 2006 the bill unanimously (11-0) passed a committee vote,[68] and while members of the church had traveled to Kokomo to protest, they were not seen during or after the funeral service.

South Dakota adopted similar legislation. WBC has expressed its intention to contest such laws, and if victorious collect damages while the Phelps Chartered law firm collects attorney's fees under the Civil Rights Attorney's Fees Award Act of 1976.

On 23 May 2006 the state of Michigan banned any intentional disruption of funerals within 500 feet of the ceremony. Violating the statute would be a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison and a $5,000 fine for the first offense and up to four years in prison and a $10,000 fine for a subsequent offense.[69]

On 17 May 2006 the state of Illinois enacted Senate Bill 1144, the "Let Them Rest In Peace Act", to shield grieving military families from protests during funerals and memorial services of fallen soldiers. A first-time violation of the Act is a Class C misdemeanor, punishable by up to 30 days in jail and a $1,500 fine and a Class 4 felony for a second or subsequent offense, which is punishable by one to three years in state prison and a fine of up to $25,000.[70]

On 29 May 2006, President George W. Bush signed into law the Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act (Pub.L. 109-228), prohibiting protests within 300 feet (90 m) of the entrance of any cemetery under control of the National Cemetery Administration from 60 minutes before to 60 minutes after a funeral.[71] Penalties for violating the act are up to $100,000 in fines and up to one year imprisonment.[71] The bill garnered overwhelming bipartisan support in Congress with a 408-3 vote in the House, with 21 not voting, and a unanimous vote in the Senate.[71]

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Question... if these laws are in force - How the hell are these nutcases getting away with still protesting?

I agree that the judge in this case needs to be run out of town on a rail - tarred and feathered and whatever else bad things can be done to him.

Personally I think the laws don't go far enough -- These idiots should be treated as homegrown TERRORISTS - the same as the rest of them.

My blood is boiling too Jimi. Maybe we need to go back and take a long hard look at the Civil Rights Statute... I don't think it covered Civil Disobedience quite well enough.

Thanks Mat and the rest of you who've done what you can do to help the families of the fallen.

Quote:

How the hell are these nutcases getting away with still protesting?

They get away with it because they are very careful to stay within the 300 ft. distance from the funeral.  300 ft. isn't very far and they can still be seen and heard.

It doesn't look like Maryland (where this young man was buried) has any of these laws in affect.  In those states that do have these laws, some judges are upholding (or at least not interfering) with the law.  As to the federal law that was passed, that only applies to National Military cemetaries.

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ETA

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if protesters showed up at my sons funeral i really dont think i could keep my cool. most likely a few of the protesters funerals would be next. what an a$$hole thing to do. especially a to a marine

There's a Journalist with the BBC called Louis Theroux who does these shows called weird weekends with Louis Theroux.

This guy is brilliant because he's a tall gangley, awkward sort of dude who uses this to his advantage. Most groups do not see him as a threat because of his appearence and manner which, inturn allows him to get really up close and personel with individuals.

He spent a weekend with these freaks and they truly are a fucked up bunch. Check it out on this link, and for the madness check out the second link on the guy who can vessel aliens through his body, check out the old guy with the beard, "priceless".... :D

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Lefty

Lefty wrote on Apr 4^th, 2010 at 1:54pm:

There's a Journalist with the BBC called Louis Theroux who does these shows called weird weekends with Louis Theroux. This guy is brilliant because he's a tall gangley, awkward sort of dude who uses this to his advantage. Most groups do not see him as a threat because of his appearence and manner which, inturn allows him to get really up close and personel with individuals. He spent a weekend with these freaks and they truly are a fucked up bunch. Check it out on this link, and for the madness check out the second link on the guy who can vessel aliens through his body, check out the old guy with the beard, "priceless".... :D START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE Lefty

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