Saw this and thought it was worth copy/pasting...

- IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.

- IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY,  YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.

- IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.

- IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU WILL BE JAILED.

- IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.

- IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.

- IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

- IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET................................
1 - A JOB
2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,
3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
4 - WELFARE FOR YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN,
5 - FOOD STAMPS,
6 - CREDIT CARDS,
7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE AND/OR A BUSINESS,
8 - FREE EDUCATION
9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,
10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON,
11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE,
12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR NATIVE COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT HERE IN THE USA.


   I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD A FIRM GRASP ON THE SITUATION...

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Charlie

you can really get all that stuff if your an illegal?

-johnny- wrote on May 22^nd, 2010 at 9:52pm:

you can really get all that stuff if your an illegal?

Except for #6 and #11 minus the billions.  #7 I dont think you have to be a citizen to buy a home or business.
The rest is just bull.

And try crossing a border into one of the above-menitoned countries without ALL the PROPER documentation!!! Want to talk about "Racial Profiling?" (that is IF you're an American!)

Any documentation on those stats?

Hey, if it's on the internet, it must be true. ;)

Well I know that you can get #1.

Already have lots of frightened # 10s

Charlie

perhaps we should be tougher on the people that give them a #1

Time to stop using the words “race” or “racial” when talking about illegal persons. Being hispanic, Columbian, Mexican, Canadian, European, American and on and on and on is not a person’s “race”. It is their nationality.

BobG wrote on May 24^th, 2010 at 12:04pm:

Time to stop using the words “race” or “racial” when talking about illegal persons. Being hispanic, Columbian, Mexican, Canadian, European, American and on and on and on is not a person’s “race”. It is their nationality.

you make a good point bob. illegals come in all colors and nationalities.

Sorry, I don't get the point. That means you would prefer to live in China, North Corea, Iran or Cuba?.
Saludos
Poli

BobG wrote on May 24^th, 2010 at 12:04pm:

Time to stop using the words “race” or “racial” when talking about illegal persons. Being hispanic, Columbian, Mexican, Canadian, European, American and on and on and on is not a person’s “race”. It is their nationality.

I agree wholeheartedly.  It doesn't matter who you are, what color, what race, what nationality or what religion.

What I do agree with is "what it it about the word ILLEGAL that nobody seems to understand?"

Everyone of any color, nationality, gender, religion, etc is welcome to the USA if they come here legally.  All others - go home now.  You are not welcome here, and hopefully those who live here, both born Americans and those to came here legally, will find a way to stop you and send you home.

Sandy

Poli wrote on May 24^th, 2010 at 3:21pm:

Sorry, I don't get the point. That means you would prefer to live in China, North Corea, Iran or Cuba?. Saludos Poli

Hardly. The point is that thousands upon thousands of illegal immigrants come to the US every year and start tapping into the vast array of benefits that many US citizens are too proud to take themselves. We, the taxpayers, are stuck with the bill, and our esteemed Executive branch of government never seems to want to do anything to stem the tide. We, the taxpayers, are seen as a never-ending supply of financing, while the illegal immigrants are seen by our esteemed Executive branch as simply potential illegal votes.

Not that hard to understand.

Poli wrote on May 24^th, 2010 at 3:21pm:

Sorry, I don't get the point. That means you would prefer to live in China, North Corea, Iran or Cuba?. Saludos Poli

No, Poli,  None of us want to live anywhere than where we are, the USA.  What we are saying is that all peoples of any color, race, religion, nationality, are welcome to immigrate here, if they come in legally.

What we do not want to do is pay through our tax dollars to support those who choose to enter this country illegally for their housing, food, medical care, education and on and on, while they pay nothing for those same services.

I don't care who they are or where they came from.  If they came into this country legally, I will work to help and support them until they can assimilate into the country and support themselves. 

The illegals - the only finger I will lift to help is to help them to cross back over their boarders to their home countries.

Sandy

Ya know, I always thought that we should, say about once a month, line all the illegals up at a given airport. There are , say 5-6 jets waiting at different gates. The jet they get deported on is by lottery system. You draw jet number three, that's the jet you get deported on. The fact your from Ecuador and the jet is going to Cuba is irrelevant. Adios, amigo. Tell your new country we said "HI".

Mike.

just food for thought. perhaps we could tax the legal immigrants on the revenue from their motels an 7/11s. nothing more than i would get taxed. we'll make it even. could also stop the grants for them start a business.

i think things will get so far with shit like this till our country collapses. then we'll just have to rebuild from the bottom up with a simpler form of government.

It would be nice if our wimp legislators wrung some necks of CEOs that quietly or not so quietly hire the illegals. Tons-o-cash there with no regard for what it does to the rest of the country. It's one of those things that neither party has dared deal with.

A pretty thing, all that money and those lovely votes.

Charlie

Ya know, back in OLDEN times (the 1700s to be exact) WE didn't like the way things were going in OUR country (or rather our FOREFATHERS didn't - I really wasn't around) so we took matters in our own hands and DID something to change things. We didn't go looking for another country to INVADE and get freebies...

If these illegals are so unhappy in their own countries - why don't they just buck up to the system and DO SOMETHING to help themselves like we did and make their country worth living in? Then maybe they can start helping all the people of the world and give us a break!

:-*

Quote:

Already have lots of frightened # 10s

The lobbyists aren't the ones we should frown upon but rather the politicians who allow their votes to be swayed by the lobbyists.

LasVegas wrote on May 22^nd, 2010 at 9:41pm:

IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET................................ 1 - A JOB 2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE, 3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, 4 - WELFARE FOR YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN, 5 - FOOD STAMPS, 6 - CREDIT CARDS, 7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE AND/OR A BUSINESS, 8 - FREE EDUCATION 9 - FREE HEALTH CARE, 10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON, 11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE, 12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR NATIVE COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT HERE IN THE USA.

All are true - just a few highlights.....

#2 & #3 can be acquired but by illegal means. Have to "buy" a social security number. Not hard to do, a lot of store-fronts in Vegas sell them for about $1,500.00 quietly.

#8 true. Bilingual teachers are hired on a priority basis now. Don't get me started on being tired of pushing "1" for English. grrrrrrrrr

#9 is definitely true. Free for them, bleeding our county hospital to death for us tax-paying U.S. citizens.

BarbaraD wrote on May 25^th, 2010 at 4:52am:

WE didn't like the way things were going in OUR country (or rather our FOREFATHERS didn't - I really wasn't around) so we took matters in our own hands and DID something to change things. We didn't go looking for another country to INVADE and get freebies...

---

Quote:

#8 true. Bilingual teachers are hired on a priority basis now. Don't get me started on being tired of pushing "1" for English. grrrrrrrrr

I'm getting real tired of having to search for the English section of operators manuals and the like. It's not English that should be the hard to find section.

I'm just terrible aren't I?

Charlie

BarbaraD wrote on May 25^th, 2010 at 4:52am:

Ya know, back in OLDEN times (the 1700s to be exact) WE didn't like the way things were going in OUR country (or rather our FOREFATHERS didn't - I really wasn't around) so we took matters in our own hands and DID something to change things. We didn't go looking for another country to INVADE and get freebies...

Whoa. Yes they did. Many times over.

Native Americans. Native Hawaiians. Native Samoans, etc.. Key word being "Native". These people and their land were invaded & stolen for the benefit of the "forefathers".

I think U.S. citizens, in their zealotry over illegal aliens, should remember how this country came into existence, and not get too much into chest pounding on how it was done "properly" by the forefathers.

Public Supports Arizona Immigration Law
May 12, 2010

The public broadly supports a new Arizona law aimed at dealing with illegal immigration and the law's provisions giving police increased powers to stop and detain people who are suspected of being in the country illegally.

Fully 73% say they approve of requiring people to produce documents verifying their legal status if police ask for them. Two-thirds (67%) approve of allowing police to detain anyone who cannot verify their legal status, while 62% approve of allowing police to question people they think may be in the country illegally.

Most Disapprove of Obama on Immigration
As has been the case since last fall, the public is highly critical of Barack Obama's handling of immigration policy. Just 25% approve of the way Obama is handling the issue, while more than twice as many (54%) disapprove.

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Glad to read this article ....

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This bill never became law.

H.R. 4437 [109th]: Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005

To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to strengthen enforcement of the immigration laws, to enhance border security, and for other purposes.

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Sponsor: Rep. James Sensenbrenner [R-WI5]
Cost: $7 per American over the 2006-2010 period.
Status: 
Introduced--Dec 6, 2005
Referred to Committee    
Reported by Committee--Dec 8, 2005
Amendments (32 proposed)
Passed House--Dec 16, 2005
Senate Vote--(did not occur)
Signed by President--(did not occur)

This bill never became law. This bill was proposed in a previous session of Congress. Sessions of Congress last two years, and at the end of each session all proposed bills and resolutions that haven't passed are cleared from the books. Members often reintroduce bills that did not come up for debate under a new number in the next session.

Votes: Dec 16, 2005: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by roll call vote. The totals were 239 Ayes, 182 Nays, 13 Present/Not Voting.
Last Action: Jan 27, 2006: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

H.R. 4437 [109th]: Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005
Jan 27, 2006 - Referred in Senate. This is the text of the bill after moving from the House to the Senate before being considered by Senate committees. This is the latest version of the bill currently available on GovTrack.

HR 4437 RFS

109th CONGRESS

2d Session

H. R. 4437

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
December 17, 2005

Received
January 27, 2006
Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

Text of H.R. 4437 [109th]: Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005

     TITLE I--SECURING UNITED STATES BORDERS

SEC. 118. SENSE OF CONGRESS REGARDING ENFORCEMENT OF IMMIGRATION LAWS.

(a) Findings- Congress finds the following:

    (1) A primary duty of the Federal Government is to secure the homeland and ensure the safety of United States citizens and lawful residents.

    (2) As a result of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, perpetrated by al Qaida terrorists on United States soil, the United States is engaged in a Global War on Terrorism.

    (3) According to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, up to 15 of the 9/11 hijackers could have been intercepted or deported through more diligent enforcement of immigration laws.

    (4) Four years after those attacks, there is still a failure to secure the borders of the United States against illegal entry.

    (5) The failure to enforce immigration laws in the interior of the United States means that illegal aliens face little or no risk of apprehension or removal once they are in the country.

    (6) If illegal aliens can enter and remain in the United States with impunity, so, too, can terrorists enter and remain while they plan, rehearse, and then carry out their attacks.

    (7) The failure to control and to prevent illegal immigration into the United States increases the likelihood that terrorists will succeed in launching catastrophic or harmful attacks on United States soil.

    (8) There are numerous immigration laws that are currently not being enforced.

    (9) Law enforcement officers are often discouraged from enforcing the law by superiors.

(b) Sense of Congress- It is the sense of Congress that the President, the Attorney General, Secretary of State, Secretary of Homeland Security, and other Department Secretaries should immediately use every tool available to them to enforce the immigration laws of the United States, as enacted by Congress.

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Edit to add:
The Library of Congress > THOMAS Home > Bills, Resolutions > Search Results
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Don't worry about it KOP - the Senate has over 300 bills PENDING that they're just too busy to get around to reading or working on --

the house keeps sending stuff to them and they just keep staying busy and ignoring them...

Sooner than later, some deranged zealot is going to gross the Mexican border and set off a atomic bomb and kill a lot of innocent US citizens.

I wonder what the politicians will say then?

All for the possibility of cultivating potential sympathetic votes...for politics...for maintaining power.

Shows what an elected officials will do to maintain a power base.

Think about the type of person that would disregard the obvious in order to seem sympathetic to a group of voters to maintain an elected office.

I can't think of a word to describe it.


Please, whatever your Party, don't vote for an incumbent. Don't think you vote wasted if the senior member wins. A message needs to be sent to the cronies in Washington. And even a tight race sends a pointed notice.

Steve G

Quote:

don't vote for an incumbent

  Totally agree.  We should get a bumper sticker program going on.  Paste it on every car bumper, telephone pole, barber shop window, AND write letters to every editorial page of every paper of every town we all live in. 

Vote the incumbants out!!!!!!!!!


My only political post of the year. 

Unfortunately, we live in an age of terrorism. We can not afford to have an open border. Solutions I am short on, but it is easy to see the problem.


Ray

Well, the good news is that SB 1070 put pressure on Obama to agree to send some National Guard troops to our Southern Border.  Enough # of troops?  No where near enough, however it's a start, some are better than none and every bit helps.

LasVegas wrote on May 27^th, 2010 at 12:22am:

Well, the good news is that SB 1070 put pressure on Obama to agree to send some National Guard troops to our Southern Border.  Enough # of troops?  No where near enough, however it's a start, some are better than none and every bit helps.

And his administration will declare this to be a great victory of toughness and reform, while in practice having virtually no effect whatsoever. Hope and change, baby.

Quote:

Border Patrol Recruiters Head to Michigan (Thursday, June 12, 2008) U.S. Customs and Border Protection is stepping up its recruiting efforts to hire 6,000 additional Border Patrol agents by the end of 2008. This national hiring event is in direct response to President Bush's May 2006 announcement to enhance border security by increasing the size of the Border Patrol. CBP continues to expand its recruiting and hiring efforts with an energized advertising campaign designed to identify candidates wanting to work in law enforcement protecting our nation's borders. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Quote:

U.S. Customs and Border Protection  The immigration reform and Control Act of 1986 expanded the agency’s responsibilities and made it a law-enforcement agency. The act enabled the agency to enforce sanctions against American employers who hired undocumented aliens. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

With 6000 added, the enforcement of this law hasn't been so publicity-minded it seems.

Linda_Howell wrote on May 26^th, 2010 at 11:13pm:

Quote: don't vote for an incumbent   Totally agree.  We should get a bumper sticker program going on.  Paste it on every car bumper, telephone pole, barber shop window, AND write letters to every editorial page of every paper of every town we all live in.  Vote the incumbants out!!!!!!!!! My only political post of the year.

Honestly, I didn't even know what the term "incumbant" meant until about 5 years ago.  Do you think most voters do? :-/

Not slagging on you Mel, but if people do not understand what *incumbant* means, they really don't need to be voting. 

Maybe our household is a bit more political than most, but Sarah has had a good basic knowledge of the voting procedures since she started voting at 18.

deltadarlin wrote on May 27^th, 2010 at 8:39am:

...but if people do not understand what *incumbant* means, they really don't need to be voting.

Reality is, many of them do anyhow. They pull the lever for whoever Katie Couric tells them to.

Brew wrote on May 27^th, 2010 at 9:51am:

deltadarlin wrote on May 27th, 2010 at 8:39am: ...but if people do not understand what *incumbant* means, they really don't need to be voting. Reality is, many of them do anyhow. They pull the lever for whoever Katie Couric tells them to.

Exactly Bill.


And Carolyn, just because I didn't know the meaning of the word, didn't mean I was an uninformed voter who shouldn't have the right to vote...

Jimi wrote on May 23^rd, 2010 at 10:29am:

Well I know that you can get #1.

Illegals only get jobs when an American feels that his/her 'need' for cheap labor outweighs the legal obstacles to hiring an illegal. Those legal obstacles have not scared many people.

Jobs are the magnet that will keep pulling people here without the necessary permits. If you build a fence on the border, they will enter on planes saying they are going to visit Disney or New Orleans, and then they will find a job and forget to return. They have little to lose, while the factory owners and farmers with US citizenship have a lot to lose. The only way to solve the problem is to bitch-slap any citizen or legal immigrant who employs illegal aliens. Seize their assets and give them hard jail time. The jobs would dry up, and people would return to their home countries.


stevegeebe wrote on May 26^th, 2010 at 11:03pm:

Sooner than later, some deranged zealot is going to gross the Mexican border and set off a atomic bomb and kill a lot of innocent US citizens.

Maybe, but maybe they will smuggle it in through a cargo container - why not insist that every one of millions of containers that enters the US every years gets thoroughly inspected before we let it into our port cities? Sure, it would cost many billions of dollars and that would be tacked on to the price we pay for just about everything ... but if we conjure up the vision of a nuclear fireball over a US city, shouldn't we be devoting 100% of all activity to prevent that??

monty wrote on May 27^th, 2010 at 4:10pm:

Illegals only get jobs when an American feels that his/her 'need' for cheap labor outweighs the legal obstacles to hiring an illegal. Those legal obstacles have not scared many people.

thanks for not say they're taking jobs that americans don't want. any job will do

Quote:

Reality is, many of them do anyhow. They pull the lever for whoever Katie Couric tells them to.

The so called tea party owes big time to the major liberal news media. By their incessant reporting of a group that wasn't all that exciting, they pumped it up enough to make people wonder enough to check it out. It's still smaller than reported but it will never appear so and that's the genius of it.

Charlie

Charlie wrote on May 27^th, 2010 at 9:07pm:

The so called tea party owes big time to the major liberal news media. By their incessant reporting of a group that wasn't all that exciting, they pumped it up enough to make people wonder enough to check it out. It's still smaller than reported but it will never appear so and that's the genius of it. Charlie

Quote:

“With the rise of the Tea Party, the white-right and other racist forces. With gun sales nationwide at an all time high amongst whites, with a mood that is more anti-Black than any time recent, it is imperative that we organize our forces, pool our resources and prepare for war!” Malik Zulu Shabazz, Esq., Black Panther Party Chairman

Golly.

monty wrote on May 27^th, 2010 at 4:10pm:

Jimi wrote on May 23rd, 2010 at 10:29am: Well I know that you can get #1. Illegals only get jobs when an American feels that his/her 'need' for cheap labor outweighs the legal obstacles to hiring an illegal. Those legal obstacles have not scared many people.

[quote]The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 ... made it illegal to knowingly hire undocumented workers, establishing penalties that include fines of as much as $10,000 per worker and six months in prison for violators.

Nationwide, work-site enforcement has declined significantly since the early 1990s, according to Department of Homeland Security statistics. Fines imposed on employers for breaking the law dwindled from 1,063 orders in 1992 to only 13 in 2002. Work-site arrests, warnings issued to employers and cases completed also dropped off sharply during this time.

More recently, from 1999 to 2003, criminal employer cases presented for prosecution decreased to 4 from 182. Only two employers in the city of San Diego have been referred to the U.S. Attorney for prosecution since 2000.

Perhaps most tellingly, investigators are spending less time going after employers: Since 1999, investigative work hours dedicated to work-site enforcement have decreased by more than half. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents spent a total of 471,210 work hours investigating employers in 1999. They spent only 177,975 work hours doing so last year [2003].

"There is no fear of government."

"But I have a feeling that until we come up with an effective internal strategy, you can't put it all at the border."

Until that happens, immigrants who have an economic incentive to cross the border illegally will continue to do so, finding ways around the barriers put up to keep them out.



Politically, enforcement is skewed heavily toward the border, not business.


"Congress was committed to passing a toothless employer sanctions law," said Wayne Cornelius, director of the Center for Comparative Immigration Studies at the University of California San Diego. "It was the only way they could get it through. . . . There was a lot of pressure from business lobbies, from agribusiness, restaurants, hotels."

Over the years, politicians have intervened on behalf of a number of employers caught hiring undocumented immigrants. Some employers who have come under fire are generous political contributors ...

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I wondered why news of business sanctions was so quiet.

LasVegas wrote on May 27^th, 2010 at 12:22am:

Well, the good news is that SB 1070 put pressure on Obama to agree to send some National Guard troops to our Southern Border.  Enough # of troops?  No where near enough, however it's a start, some are better than none and every bit helps.

And our Congress has voted to not allow this!  LOL. I wonder if congress thinks the illegals are their only hope for enough votes come election time to keep their cushy jobs. 

All of congress should be shown the door come election time.  The ONLY way to end the continuation of the mess which is our government is to replace ALL of them.  The problem is any new house or senate members are quickly "educated" in the "old ways" and the corruption is perpetuated.

Throw them ALL out.

-P.

monty wrote on May 27^th, 2010 at 4:10pm:

Jimi wrote on May 23rd, 2010 at 10:29am: Well I know that you can get #1. If you build a fence on the border, they will enter on planes saying they are going to visit Disney or New Orleans, and then they will find a job and forget to return.

Those who are crossing the border illegally can't afford to go to anywhere USA (longd damned walk to get to Disney World) and stay at Motel 6, much less buy a plane ticket and go to Disney World or new Orleans.

If they had that kind of money, they wouldn't need to come here.

Brew wrote on May 27^th, 2010 at 10:45pm:

Charlie wrote on May 27th, 2010 at 9:07pm: The so called tea party owes big time to the major liberal news media. By their incessant reporting of a group that wasn't all that exciting, they pumped it up enough to make people wonder enough to check it out. It's still smaller than reported but it will never appear so and that's the genius of it. Charlie Quote: “With the rise of the Tea Party, the white-right and other racist forces. With gun sales nationwide at an all time high amongst whites, with a mood that is more anti-Black than any time recent, it is imperative that we organize our forces, pool our resources and prepare for war!” Malik Zulu Shabazz, Esq., Black Panther Party Chairman Golly.

Just to give another perspective, I can understand why the Panthers are skittish. Frankly, I am also - not that I am aligning myself with any extremist organization, that's not my intent at all.

In order to keep informed, I'll periodically log on & read opinions/blogs from David Duke, Aryan Nation, Klan-based organizations etc because I want to know what affects them and what they are watching. The sentiments expressed on those websites are parallel to what is reported and what I've read on the Tea Party. There is a contingent here in Nevada who post very strongly on a local blog so it's relatively easy to get an idea of what they are trying to represent.

There is a portion of the population who will always be skittish when there are large groups bolstering gun-toting, "states" rights, anarchy, recession from the states, militias, etc. It was the rhetoric of Timothy McVeigh. It was & still is the rhetoric of David Duke. It is the foundation of the Klan who is still very much a part of our society, like it or not. It is encouraged by the "brotherhood of Aryans".

This is what has been conveyed by the media, reflected in the rallys, and what I've read in Tea Party literature.

Yeah, golly, indeed.

There was only one Tea Party activist I spoke with who didn't frighten me because his focus was mainly on grassroots efforts to really balance this dichotomy of political parties, stop the "war on the middle class" and establish a government focused squarely on it's people, not just the elite. That makes sense. But, unfortunately, the majority of Tea Party murmurings heard in abundance are of the nature I mentioned above.

AdoreInVegas wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 1:58pm:

Brew wrote on May 27th, 2010 at 10:45pm: Charlie wrote on May 27th, 2010 at 9:07pm: The so called tea party owes big time to the major liberal news media. By their incessant reporting of a group that wasn't all that exciting, they pumped it up enough to make people wonder enough to check it out. It's still smaller than reported but it will never appear so and that's the genius of it. Charlie Quote: “With the rise of the Tea Party, the white-right and other racist forces. With gun sales nationwide at an all time high amongst whites, with a mood that is more anti-Black than any time recent, it is imperative that we organize our forces, pool our resources and prepare for war!” Malik Zulu Shabazz, Esq., Black Panther Party Chairman Golly. Just to give another perspective, I can understand why the Panthers are skittish. Frankly, I am also - not that I am aligning myself with any extremist organization, that's not my intent at all. In order to keep informed, I'll periodically log on & read opinions/blogs from David Duke, Aryan Nation, Klan-based organizations etc because I want to know what affects them and what they are watching. The sentiments expressed on those websites are parallel to what is reported and what I've read on the Tea Party. There is a contingent here in Nevada who post very strongly on a local blog so it's relatively easy to get an idea of what they are trying to represent. There is a portion of the population who will always be skittish when there are large groups bolstering gun-toting, "states" rights, anarchy, recession from the states, militias, etc. It was the rhetoric of Timothy McVeigh. It was & still is the rhetoric of David Duke. It is the foundation of the Klan who is still very much a part of our society, like it or not. It is encouraged by the "brotherhood of Aryans". This is what has been conveyed by the media, reflected in the rallys, and what I've read in Tea Party literature. Yeah, golly, indeed. There was only one Tea Party activist I spoke with who didn't frighten me because his focus was mainly on grassroots efforts to really balance this dichotomy of political parties, stop the "war on the middle class" and establish a government focused squarely on it's people, not just the elite. That makes sense. But, unfortunately, the majority of Tea Party murmurings heard in abundance are of the nature I mentioned above.

Have you actually attended a Tea Party?  Just wondering...

Attended a meeting because I wanted firsthand information. The emphasis at the time was concealed weapons, preparation for their rally in Senator Reid's hometown, etc.

Got some printed information and, as mentioned above, directly spoke to one of the activists.

AdoreInVegas wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 2:09pm:

Attended a meeting because I wanted firsthand information. The emphasis at the time was concealed weapons, preparation for their rally in Senator Reid's hometown, etc. Got some printed information and, as mentioned above, directly spoke to one of the activists.

So, what I'm gathering is that all of the tea partiers scared you except for one?

Sounds like a scary place to live. :-/

Melissa wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 2:15pm:

AdoreInVegas wrote on May 28th, 2010 at 2:09pm: Attended a meeting because I wanted firsthand information. The emphasis at the time was concealed weapons, preparation for their rally in Senator Reid's hometown, etc. Got some printed information and, as mentioned above, directly spoke to one of the activists. So, what I'm gathering is that all of the tea partiers scared you except for one? Sounds like a scary place to live. :-/

That's not what I said. I spoke to one of the activists there directly. I didn't say the activists scare me - concerned? yes. Skittish? Yes. But, that's why I feel speaking to and reading firsthand is so important. That goes for any organization one has questions or concerns about.

The only exception being you won't find me attending a Klan rally seeking information.  ;)

Melissa wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 2:15pm:

AdoreInVegas wrote on May 28th, 2010 at 2:09pm: Attended a meeting because I wanted firsthand information. The emphasis at the time was concealed weapons, preparation for their rally in Senator Reid's hometown, etc. Got some printed information and, as mentioned above, directly spoke to one of the activists. So, what I'm gathering is that all of the tea partiers scared you except for one? Sounds like a scary place to live. :-/

Unfortunately, Las Vegas, NV is a scary place to live, much different residing here than visiting as a tourist.  Been here 18 years and 2 days, changed for the worse over the years.

Quote:

In order to keep informed, I'll periodically log on & read opinions/blogs from David Duke, Aryan Nation, Klan-based organizations etc because I want to know what affects them and what they are watching. The sentiments expressed on those websites are parallel to what is reported and what I've read on the Tea Party.

What a complete and utter crock of shit.

The Tea Party is people like me - and I won't even log on and read that hatred.

You have a lot to learn about what the Tea Party is all about, sister.

Quote:

I won't even log on and read that hatred.

Oh, I am so happy someone picked up on that besides me. It isn't because I have my head in the sand or anything like that, but I was  I was going to say...the hate mongers like the black Panthers David Duke, Aryan nation the Klan and their ilk is better left to the professionals to determine what their agenda is.  The FBI, Federal, state and local authorities know far better than us what to do.  Reading their propaganda will do nothing but give them extra clicks on vistors who looked at their nonsense.  I have no interest in being a part of that.

Thanks Bill.  :-*

I'm more interested in what my enemies are thinking - the ones who are out to do real harm to me, my family, my community, my country.

Brew wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 4:10pm:

I'm more interested in what my enemies are thinking - the ones who are out to do real harm to me, my family, my community, my country.

Those hate groups ARE my enemy. They HAVE done harm to me, my family, my community, and country. That's why I'm interested, and I'm sure why you are interested in who you identify as your enemy.

As I watch & read what my enemies are thinking, they are reflecting the same sentiments I've heard expressed from the media about the Tea Party. I have made & continue to make the effort to find out what the Tea Party is about firsthand. That's much more that I can say for a lot of people who pre-judge based on media coverage alone.

I was offering my explanation of why some are concerned. That's all.

LasVegas wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 3:27pm:

Unfortunately, Las Vegas, NV is a scary place to live, much different residing here than visiting as a tourist.  Been here 18 years and 2 days, changed for the worse over the years.

Was just talking about that the other day. Seems 10x worse and not getting any better since I came out here in 1991.

They don't report half of the homocides/suicides on the news that we actually get in the hospitals.

I think it depends on where you live as to what the tea party members are like.  Not all espouse rabid ideas.

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[quote author=7071786075707566787D7A140 link=1274578897/57#57 date=1275083625]I think it depends on where you live as to what the tea party members are like.  Not all espouse rabid ideas.

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I agree.

Quote:

All of congress should be shown the door come election time.  The ONLY way to end the continuation of the mess which is our government is to replace ALL of them.  The problem is any new house or senate members are quickly "educated" in the "old ways" and the corruption is perpetuated. Throw them ALL out.

Nothing is new and it never works. The prospective "replacements" are nothing to write home about.

The Tea Party is like a schizophrenic libertarian mob. "I want my freedom absolute so long as it doesn't come with responsibility, up and until the moment I need a big brother government to rescue me," and it always come to pass.

They want a political culture where compromise is blocked by lone-wolf cranks. Instead of a Bill Buckley we get pearls of wisdom from Sarah Palin. Ignorance is prized as a healthy political alterative. They could use some "elitists" on the right.

This populism, while looking good to a particular kind of "conservative" brings out the worst of them. Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Glenn Beck. These peculiar purists are taking a large bite out of reasoned debate within a once rational Republican Party. The internet hasn't been helpful. It empowers the worst and most obnoxious people on the extreme.

Republicans need better populists.

Charlie

AdoreInVegas wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 5:11pm:

Those hate groups ARE my enemy. They HAVE done harm to me, my family, my community, and country. That's why I'm interested, and I'm sure why you are interested in who you identify as your enemy.

Why even bother? These are fringe groups with next to no following. No numbers = no power.

It's the socialists that we need to worry about. They're the ones who nibble away at liberty. Their guy sits in the White House now, and he mocks me - he calls me a Tea Bagger. I don't ever remember being mocked by a President before.

Tea Party members are NOT fringe. They are mainstream, and they will make a difference in the next election.

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Their guy sits in the White House now, and he mocks me - he calls me a Tea Bagger.

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Charlie

Brew wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 10:08pm:

he calls me a Tea Bagger.

Snicker...you said tea bagger...heheheh

Tea partiers are very much a fringe group.

They are an unwitting group as a whole a political pawn of many wealthy americans with separate agendas who support all sides. The Koch family are one of the primary supporters along with Scaife, Bradley, Olin and other reliable funders of both right and left wing infrastructure including Exxon Mobil.
Its allways nice to have a group in your hip pocket on all sides of any debate who can be summoned to voice an opinion to help lead a government in any direction as seems right for their needs. Besides who do you think is paying those 100 thousand dollar plus appearance fees the 12 million she will earn this year and providing the jets to cart sara palin around the country where she can get high enough to see russia on the horizon. The same people who helped push oil across Alaska, not that thats a bad thing.

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Only 13 percent of American voters say they are part of the Tea Party movement, a group that has more women than men; is mainly white and Republican and voted for John McCain, and strongly supports Sarah Palin, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today.
(considering that only a small percent of americans vote thats a much smaller number than it sounds)

I suspect these reporters are not TP members.
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My apologies to the tea partiers out there. But the reason its gone to tea "baggers" is that ya'all seem to be running around with bags over your heads. Your ok otherwise.  :) All my inlaws are stuanchly messed up too.
What a great country we live in as some other places I couldnt say that and get away with it.

The word "tea bagger" describes a very lewd act that has been taking place at parties and such since I was a kid. It's very nasty. Has the president actually called anyone teabaggers? If so that is too funny.

Quote:

My apologies to the tea partiers out there. But the reason its gone to tea "baggers" is that ya'all seem to be running around with bags over your heads.

No, MJ, that's not what it means at all.

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Pretty much everything is "over the head" from that read.

Now and then stuff about Birchers pop up. It's always a surprise.

Charlie

It's unfortunate that what started out being something good & right, turned into something completely unrecognizable. :(

Melissa wrote on May 29^th, 2010 at 10:22am:

It's unfortunate that what started out being something good & right, turned into something completely unrecognizable. :(

Not sure I follow. This thread, or immigration?

Brew wrote on May 29^th, 2010 at 10:25am:

Melissa wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 10:22am: It's unfortunate that what started out being something good & right, turned into something completely unrecognizable. :( Not sure I follow. This thread, or immigration?

The Tea Party "movement".  I should say that there are many who are NOT extreme who understand the basic intention of less government, but the crazies took over and that's when it really became visible in the mainstream media. 

Quote:

...but the crazies took over...

Well, that's what the left and the media (but I repeat myself) would have you believe.

Brew wrote on May 29^th, 2010 at 10:50am:

Quote: ...but the crazies took over... Well, that's what the left and the media (but I repeat myself) would have you believe.

I meant the crazies have taken over the media, not the tea party. [smiley=grin2.gif]


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Again: Without the liberal media, the tea party thing would be even smaller than it is. They better thank those "big guvmint Nazis" for allowing them to hold up signs and banners showing the President as an evolutionary throwback or worse.

The kind of "conservatism" we see here prides itself not on determining who can speak for the right but who can't. Some to a much lesser degree, can be said of the left but it pales compared to the tea party sign toters.

"Are you or have you ever been a supporter of any bill that a Republican centrist might support?"

Rather than coming up with even a wrong solution, all they do is get together for what amounts to narcissistic tent revivals extolling how great the party of Sarah will be. They remind me of Marlon Brando in "The Wild One" where when asked what he might be protesting against, said: "Whatya got?"

Charlie

Brew wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 10:08pm:

Why even bother? These are fringe groups with next to no following. No numbers = no power.

I beg to differ. They have a HUGE following. One that has tripled since, in their world, the unthinkable has happened. And they have a LOT of power. That power placed David Duke in a senate seat at one time.

That power still permeates and is growing in society. Don Black has gone corporate in a very effective way. To think otherwise is, IMO being naive.

The Tea Party "movement".  I should say that there are many who are NOT extreme who understand the basic intention of less government,.  [/quote]

I agree Mel that most tea partiers have good intentions and are good people.
Many are easily swayed and directed however, as are a lot americans. Most of us just have a basic need to belong to something potentially bigger than ourselves and willingly ignore the negatives and realities that may be a part of it.

In regards to the term teabaggers I must have gone to all the wrong parties.

Pretty much agree MJ.

It's like the net in a way. It's fun to be with like-minded people.

Charlie

Brew wrote on May 29^th, 2010 at 10:25am:

Melissa wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 10:22am: It's unfortunate that what started out being something good & right, turned into something completely unrecognizable. :( Not sure I follow. This thread, or immigration?

Brew- as allways the best way to deal with illegal immigration has been to change the subject.  :) thats how its been done forever by the left, the right and the middle. The challenge is keeping it front and center.

My native state of AZ is now doing a good job at keeping the issue up front. I think thats only because of the high unemployment in the local economy.
If construction and employment return to AZ then I suspect the issue will move to the back burner again. The illegals were the power and labor force that allowed for 30,000 new homes to be built to accomodate the influx of 40,000 U.S. immigrants from the rest of the states every month.

The latino illegals were the ones who worked the farms and citrus groves, The ones who maintained the lands, the ones who caused the catholic churches to overflow, the ones who installed and maintained the irrigation systems, the ones who kept the largest copper mines in the world going, kept the builders alive, installed roofing and insulation, built the dams, loaded trucks for transport, mixed cement, installed the drywall, washed the dishes, watched the kids and cleaned the houses, etc.etc...

In the 80s when the peso dropped to nil the illegal labor force consisted of a lot of highly educated peoples, doctors, engineers, veterinarians, former business owners, hotel operators college grads, ranchers, young and old and those were just the ones who worked for me prior to 1986 when the laws changed and I could find very few U.S citizen to work for more than a week.

Just like the chinamen who built our western railways, or the shiploads of fins who mined the U.P. of michigan, the thousands of programmers brought from india and pakistan to grow microsoft et. al.. the illegals were brought in by the 1000s all through our history by american business. They were the power that allowed this country to become a success. Dont need them now might as well boot em out and let them build new power at home. Instead we will build their countries this time instead of our own.
Soon we may be those illegals going to Mexico in search of work. (Maybe)

A little carried away.

1200 Natl. Guard troops probably will not be as effective as in the past with Operation Wetback. 

Hopefully, the Natl. Guard along with Border Patrol and state and local police agencies can put a dent in the daily problem until a real solution is implemented.

MJ wrote on May 29^th, 2010 at 1:27pm:

Brew wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 10:25am: Melissa wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 10:22am: It's unfortunate that what started out being something good & right, turned into something completely unrecognizable. :( Not sure I follow. This thread, or immigration? Brew- as allways the best way to deal with illegal immigration has been to change the subject.  :) thats how its been done forever by the left, the right and the middle. The challenge is keeping it front and center.

Since it's me you quoted MJ, I want to make it clear that I wasn't the one who changed the subject.

Not sure if you're reading something that's not there, but I was just asking Mel for clarification. I didn't understand what she was alluding to.

AdoreInVegas wrote on May 29^th, 2010 at 11:51am:

I beg to differ. They have a HUGE following. One that has tripled since, in their world, the unthinkable has happened. And they have a LOT of power. That power placed David Duke in a senate seat at one time. That power still permeates and is growing in society. Don Black has gone corporate in a very effective way. To think otherwise is, IMO being naive.

It's my impression that you perceive a threat where there is none. That's either naivete or something else - like diverting attention from the real problem (which in my opinion, as I'm sure you've already gathered, is the progressive movement).

Brew wrote on May 29^th, 2010 at 2:59pm:

AdoreInVegas wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 11:51am: I beg to differ. They have a HUGE following. One that has tripled since, in their world, the unthinkable has happened. And they have a LOT of power. That power placed David Duke in a senate seat at one time. That power still permeates and is growing in society. Don Black has gone corporate in a very effective way. To think otherwise is, IMO being naive. It's my impression that you perceive a threat where there is none. That's either naivete or something else - like diverting attention from the real problem (which in my opinion, as I'm sure you've already gathered, is the progressive movement).

Well, being that you are not on the receiving end of that threat, I'm sure you wouldn't perceive it as such.

My husband didn't see it either, until he willingly married into the receiving side.

It's all in the perception.

I don't see the "progressive movement" as any more of threat than any other political movement that has existed in this country for years. People thought the sky was falling with President Clinton. People thought the world would implode with President Bush. People think the apocalypse is upon us with President Obama. Personally, I don't think the problems that affect society as you perceive it come so openly. It comes moreso from within. I would have thought that was a learned lesson from the Oklahoma City Bombings, 9-11, Waco, etc., but it still seems like that Reagan-era mantra, "It's the economy, stupid!" is playing out all over again.

AdoreInVegas wrote on May 29^th, 2010 at 4:00pm:

It's my impression that you perceive a threat where there is none. That's either naivete or something else - like diverting attention from the real problem (which in my opinion, as I'm sure you've already gathered, is the progressive movement).Well, being that you are not on the receiving end of that threat, I'm sure you wouldn't perceive it as such. My husband didn't see it either, until he willingly married into the receiving side. It's all in the perception. I don't see the "progressive movement" as any more of threat than any other political movement that has existed in this country for years. People thought the sky was falling with President Clinton. People thought the world would implode with President Bush. People think the apocalypse is upon us with President Obama. Personally, I don't think the problems that affect society as you perceive it come so openly. It comes moreso from within. I would have thought that was a learned lesson from the Oklahoma City Bombings, 9-11, Waco, etc., but it still seems like that Reagan-era mantra, "It's the economy, stupid!" is playing out all over again.

I guess we disagree.

On just about everything.

AdoreInVegas wrote on May 29^th, 2010 at 4:00pm:

...that Reagan-era mantra, "It's the economy, stupid!"

'twas Clintonian.     :)