APRIL 18, 2010
The People and Their Government
DISTRUST, DISCONTENT, ANGER AND PARTISAN RANCOR

By almost every conceivable measure Americans are less positive and more critical of government these days. A new Pew Research Center survey finds a perfect storm of conditions associated with distrust of government – a dismal economy, an unhappy public, bitter partisanbased backlash, and epic discontent with Congress and elected officials.

Rather than an activist government to deal with the nation’s top problems, the public now wants government reformed and growing numbers want its power curtailed. With the exception of greater regulation of major financial institutions, there is less of an appetite for government solutions to the nation’s problems – including more government control over the economy – than there was when Barack Obama first took office.

The public’s hostility toward government seems likely to be an important election issue favoring the Republicans this fall. However, the Democrats can take some solace in the fact that neither party can be confident that they have the advantage among such a disillusioned electorate.
Favorable ratings for both major parties, as well as for Congress, have reached record lows while opposition to congressional incumbents, already approaching an all-time high, continues to climb.

The Tea Party movement, which has a small but fervent anti-government constituency, could be a wild card in this election. On one hand, its sympathizers are highly energized and inclined to vote Republican this fall.
On the other, many Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the Tea Party represents their point of view better than does the GOP.

These are the principal findings from a series of surveys that provide a detailed picture of the public’s opinions about government. The main survey, conducted March 11-21 among 2,505 adults, was informed by surveys in 1997 and 1998 that explored many of the same questions and issues. While a majority also distrusted the federal government in those surveys, criticism of government had declined from earlier in the decade. And the public’s desire for government services and activism was holding steady.

This is not the case today. Just 22% say they can trust the government in Washington almost always or most of the time, among the lowest measures in half a century.

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Course its that way. When the economy is booming and things are expanding, people are optimistic and happy. When Wall Street is plagued with collapsing debts and that means layoffs and credit gets tight for people on main street, people get unsettled and angry. Presidents and parties get too much credit when times are good, and too much blame when times are bad.

Quote:

Course its that way. When the economy is booming and things are expanding, people are optimistic and happy. When Wall Street is plagued with collapsing debts and that means layoffs and credit gets tight for people on main street, people get unsettled and angry. Presidents and parties get too much credit when times are good, and too much blame when times are bad.

    I almost can't argue with that. In general, the American people are kind of apathetic when it comes to life in general. If the progressives had been smart, the would have done everything in their power to bring the economy back, then dump their agenda on people. They might even have gotten past the midterms. But alas, it is not so. The true beast rears it's ugly head and displays it's true colors.

Mike

I'm just not sure that sweeping away 100 years of history to return government to its preindustrial role is something to look forward to.

What's missing with tea partiers and the far right, is a sense of humor. The best example of what can happen to governments and faith without it is Muslim terrorisim.

There is a curious difference between far right conservatives and their left wing counterparts. Left wingers allow that there is room on the planet for other points of view, at least in principal, while right wingers and tea partiers favor more Draconian solutions. It's safer for one's political career to call the left agents of Satan.

Charlie

Charlie

    At what point did I say we had to go back to some "preindustrial role". And I sure the hell didn't call anyone with a different view an "agent of satan". We have different views, and I may disagree with most of them (yes yours,lol), but the fact remains that I will rely on my ability and common sense to get me through life, rather than the government.

Mike

And some day I would like to debate you on the lefts ability to "allow for a different point of view".

Charlie wrote on Jun 7^th, 2010 at 6:15pm:

There is a curious difference between far right conservatives and their left wing counterparts. Left wingers allow that there is room on the planet for other points of view, at least in principal, while right wingers and tea partiers favor more Draconian solutions. Charlie

Oh really?  Then why is it that anytime someone criticizes President Obama, they get called a racist?

Any time someone criticizes anything this administration has done, the finger is pointed backwards at Bush?

Extremists on either side do not bode well for either party.

The folks that get unsettled and angry are mostly the people that are footing the bill and see no end to the careless spending and debt and interest payments being cast onto the future.

We use to be an extremely wealthy country. Not any more! We are in debt beyond comprehension and some folks just want to hand out more and more. When are some of you going to realize that there ain't no free lunch?

Government wastes money because its not their money. Hell, I could spend the crap out of other people's money. But if I had to earn it it would be another thing. That's the problem folks. More people are takers and the earners are becoming less and less.

Snap out of it! This situation is unsustainable. You must see this. That is if you would ever be honest with yourself.

This situation is headed for a bad place. Anyone who refuses to see it I consider a part of the problem.

If it makes you feel good or superior to campaign to see to it that the wealth is spread out, than you give all of what you have to spare to the wise Government. They know how to spend it. Go ahead and look down on me.

Morally superior...boo!

Stay myopic, locked in your dogma. See your in all of your open mindedness at the bottom...which is where we'll all end up. Maybe you can afford to buy me lunch.

God, can some of you lemmings, for a moment, think beyond the Party? JHC!

Did you come up with these beliefs all by yourself? Think about it. Where did you get these beliefs?

Let's stop being tools of the Party line. Be more than a magnetic strip. Think for yourself.

Steve G

Steve you just said a mouthful... these ideas are coming from somewhere, but people quit thinking for themselves years ago... and those that do are radicals (especially if they don't think along PARTY lines)...

We've raised a country that "spends" without regard to "saving for the future" like our parents and grandparents (or even we) did. My kids make really good money, but spend more -- I can't convince them that they don't NEED everything in sight and that tomorrow MIGHT not be as good for them as today... they just think they have to SPEND SPEND SPEND... (Is this Trickle Down Economics in its simplist form?)

You're right - this CANNOT keep going on... We did used to be a rich country - but not any more.

Unless we start taking care of US, it's not going to get any better. The rest of the world needs to tend to their own rat killing and we need to worry about our own for a while. Our foreign aid needs to go to OUR farmers and our infrastructure and into creating jobs for our people NOT putting more burden on them. We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we get our own house in order and then it needs to be LEGAL only.

We're fighting two wars that can't be won - (what's to win?). Our troops are strung out and Iraq has gone on longer than Viet Nam and what have we accomplished? What WILL we accomplish 10 years from now?

One thing about the Obama govt.... it's bringing out the corruption in about every dept in DC.... now how long it's been corrupt - anyone's guess, but it's getting brought out -one dept at a time.. They got RULES, but looks like they got foxes watching the henhouse up there...

Until Congress starts answering to the PEOPLE they respresent and not to the people who support them - we'll never get anything done - but when you're getting big bucks from an oil company - well... you tend to vote the way they TELL you  and not the way that's GOOD for your country... and we get a disaster like we've got now and it's everyone else's fault...

We need two NEW parties Common and Sense...

Quote:

and too much blame when times are bad.

You can never blame the Government too much!

Hey Barb, hate to disagree with you here, but Iraq is but a drop in the bucket compared to Vietnam.

We've actually been in Iraq since 2003 (seven years).

We got actively invovled in Vietnam in 1962 (earlier if you want to include non-combat roles).  We didn't actually pull out of Vietnam until April 1975 (thirteen years).

Casualties in Iraq are 4287 dead and 30,192 wounded. 

Casulties in Vietnam were 47,424 dead and 153,303 wounded.

There's this really awesome document out there....

It starts like this:

"We the people..."

Guess what, it's time for the people to take on responsibility - there are no cheat codes in life, and that includes quick fixes that allow little pain now and much pain later.

Anyone up for a trip to Rome?

deltadarlin wrote on Jun 8^th, 2010 at 9:11am:

We've actually been in Iraq since 2003 (seven years).

She might be encompassing that little visit we had back in about early '91 I think.   :)



lol.   shut up, Bob.    

None of what I said is personal. It's what I get from Fox and Limbaugh.

Not much humor there or here although liberals find Limbaugh hilarious.

Charlie

Quote:

Not much humor there or here although liberals find Limbaugh hilarious.

Of course Rachel Maddow, Alan Colmes and the like are a laugh a minute too. They are all part of the problem...horse whipping the other side even when it's not deserved....and for a handsome profit. Profit that they decry when entities other than themselves are raking it in.

And the wheels keep turning....


The above post is made as a member of clusterheadaches.com and not as a moderator of this forum. No opinion contained in this post represents the official policy of this website, it's owners or it's moderators.

Racer1_NC wrote on Jun 8^th, 2010 at 3:05pm:

The above post is made as a member of clusterheadaches.com and not as a moderator of this forum. No opinion contained in this post represents the official policy of this website, it's owners or it's moderators.

nice disclaimer bill :)

Nuance has disappeared.

We celebrate going out of our way to avoid any suspicion of it. A common purpose is not wanted, only a common enemy. We pride ourselves in the belief that bashing the other side is the way things have to be.

Compromisers will live in terror.

I'm guilty of it too.

Charlie

The "Distrust, Discontent, Anger" survey/results were all before the April 20, 2010 Deepwater Horizon drilling rig explosion & the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, [also called the BP Oil Spill, the Gulf of Mexico oil spill or the Macondo blowout] a massive ongoing oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, now considered the largest offshore spill in U.S. history.

I can only imagine how those survey results would pan out as to Americans "Distrust, Discontent, Anger" today.

I am not an expert on the Constitution of the United States.

However, as I understand it, the constitution gives the power to the states, not with the federal government.  The federal government is supposed to be there to oversee what the states are doing, and step in to correct or assist - not dictate.

Over the past several years (decades), the states have allowed the federal government to take over more and more power over their decisions.  This is because the feds have provided more and more funding to the states for welfare, food stamps, aid to dependent children, etc , giving them the upper hand.

The apathy of not only the states, who are willing to accept every dime they can get from the feds, but all the way down to you and me, the individual voter, is what is destroying this country.

It's one thing for every citizen to have the right to vote.  It's completely another thing as to whether that citizen even knows what he/she is voting for or against, and it's another abominal thing if that citizen doesn't vote at all yet protests their higher taxes or their loss of government benefits.

Personal opinion -

1) voting is not your RIGHT.  It is your DUTY. 
2) as your DUTY, you must be informed and aware of what you are voting on.  There should be a test - If you pass, you vote, if not - hmmm? how about maybe sent back to school to learn some US history.  Oh, never mind, they aren't teaching that anymore.  Silly me.

Sandy

As has been said and evidenced by Louisana: Everybody hates the feds until they need a friend.

Charlie

Charlie what exactly do you have against Louisiana with that kind of comment?

Do some real research and then come back and debate the points of your comment. I'll debate you any time on the merits of of what Louisiana has provided to the United States; not to mention the character and spirit of the people of this unique place.

Like I've said many times, I'd love to just shut off the valve and watch what happens. Google natural gas pipeline network and take a look at that map.

You simply do not know what you are talking about. You need to read the history of my home state, in depth, instead of typing nonsensical one liners.

And if that's too much for you, read what leaders here have been trying to do with regard to the oil spill to get Government out of the way so hard working people can get things done.

EPA needs to do a environmental study to determine if sand berms are detrimental to the environment. Shutting down drilling for six months. BOO!

You don't band airline service when a plane crashes..do you? Do you?

New Orleans is a perfect example of your progressive beliefs in action. Liberal losers, sucking on the tit of others, going nowhere and raising more and more losers going nowhere. That's what false moral superiority begets. We know it's really for the votes and power..now don't we?

Read Sir..then you may educate yourself on how my state has been screwed over since the Civil War.

Steve G - one pissed off coonass

Oh yea...the Saints beat the Jets, the Bills and the Giants.

stevegeebe wrote on Jun 10^th, 2010 at 10:28pm:

... to get Government out of the way so hard working people can get things done.

Yet, Steve, there are immense financial resources needed, we've paid in taxes for, which will now increase, that are designated to help.  I'd suppose Fed financial assistance would indicate government managed action in the use of the funds.



[quote]Gulf oil leak sets off 'unbelievable array' of legal issues

After the explosion, the flow of oil should have been stopped by a blowout preventer, but the mechanism failed. Efforts to remotely activate it have proven fruitless.

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[quote]The Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund
By: LawInfo
Published: 05/2010


In 2005, The Energy Policy Act of 2005 increased the amount of money that may be contained in the Fund to $2.7 billion. It is estimated that there was approximately $1.6 billion in the Fund at the time of the BP Deepwater Horizon spill in April 2010. Currently, the law provides that $1 billion may be spent on any one oil spill event.

$1 billion sounds like a lot of money but the current reports from the Gulf Coast indicate that this oil spill may take a long time to stop, and a lot of money to fix. Significant economic damage may be done. Thus, while the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund is helpful during this oil spill crisis, it is not yet known if it will be sufficient for a disaster of this magnitude.

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[quote]oil leak sets off 'unbelievable array' of legal issues 

By Donna Leinwand, USA TODAY


Transocean -- the owner of the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig, which exploded April 20 and sank two days later -- already has asked a judge to limit claims against it to $27 million under an 1851 law that limits liability. A judge has suspended more than 100 claims against Transocean until that issue is decided.


Hefty damages owed

Under the Oil Pollution Act of 1990, the company the Coast Guard says is responsible for a spill must pay up to $1 billion to clean it up and repair natural resource damage and up to $75 million in economic damages to compensate victims for lost income.

BP and its contractors could be forced to pay even more than that if the federal government's investigation finds widespread negligence, deliberate misconduct or violations of federal regulations.

BP American Vice President Darryl Willis last week told the House Judiciary Committee that his company expects to "exceed" the $75 million in damages required by law. He added: "BP's obligations are not, however, limitless."

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[quote]Congress Racing To Release Money From Oil Spill Liability Fund

Thu Jun 10, 1:49 pm ET


But Rep. John L. Mica, R-Fla., cautioned that the fund should not be used as a "piggy bank" for BP or other responsible parties.

"I support this measure, but I'm telling you every penny needs to be paid back," Mica said. "Where's the money? Where's the billing? In the private sector, if you have a bill, you pay it."

Separate legislation awaiting a vote in the Senate would more than quadruple the 8-cents-per-barrel tax on oil companies that is used to fill the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund. It also would increase the per-incident liability limit imposed by current law.

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[quote]Congress frees cleanup money for Gulf oil spill

Updated: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 2:23 PM

The House voted 410-0 on Thursday to lift the spending cap. The Senate passed the bill on a voice vote Wednesday.

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The Valdez settlement took 20 years, with reimbursement amounts diminishing all along the way. 

Court action mentioned above of limited payments that seem comparatively small for all the repurcussions entailed, with the mention of a billion max and $75 million toward economic damage required by law, if even exceeded by negligence, misconduct, violations, will be drawn out. 

The Fed's billion looks to be needed.

Powers & limits on Congress made by the Constitution:

Quote:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States; To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States; To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States; To establish Post Offices and Post Roads; To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court; To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations; To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; To provide and maintain a Navy; To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. Section 9 - Limits on Congress The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person. The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed. (No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.) No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State. No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another. No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time. No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State. Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

Steve,
Thanks for your post.  I've lived here for 32 years now (I'm originally from MS and listened to people put MS down for years).  Yes, there are problems with this state, but no more than any other state out there. 

LA has gotten a lot of negative press.  Unfortunately, the *good* press either is not reported or buried in a 1 inch column on the next to the last page of the paper.

After Rita and Katrina,  we banded together to help out our southern neighbors.  There were people who came up here that had nothing but the clothes on their backs. 

In Lake Charles (took the full brunt of Rita), as soon as the hurricane passed, people were already in rescue mode before the govt. could sign on the dotted line.

Now, we are faced with the worst ecological disaster to ever hit this state (or most other states for that matter).  In some areas, the barrier islands are already covered in oil.  The marshlands are being affected, in some places, the oil has already seeped in and destroyed 6 miles inland (and there are predictions that these marshlands will never again exist).

People are already starting to go hungry and they aren't standing in some line waiting for the govt. to feed them.  The mayor of Grand Isle has promised that none of his people will go hungry.  He has already started to feed his people out of his own pocket.

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This will get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

Quote:

Charlie what exactly do you have against Louisiana with that kind of comment?

Not a damn thing. I don't know why you read that into my post. Louisiana is more than deserving of federal help than anyone. It's just an example of how governors and states all over the place are thankful that the feds are there to help. Floods, building bombings, tornadoes, and other disasters are exactly what federal help is for.

In times like this all governors, conseratives included are happy that it's there.

Charlie

Charlie,
Let me first say I'm sorry I went off in the way I did. I regret what I said and I hope you are able to see that my comments were an overreaction based in pride for where I was raised.

I pray that you can find a way to forgive me and at the same time understand the reasons for my overreaction.

While it is true that the Federal Government sends more funds than it receives from Louisiana I can honestly say that the sacrifices and costs Louisiana has paid "in kind" for the benefit of "Our Country" may equal out.

Truce?

Steve G

You don't owe me an apology.

I'm just a too verbose PITA most of the time anyway  :o

Charlie

Now that you boys have made up ( ;))...

I can see why Steve is upset... I live on the "outskirts" of LA, but have seen the damage a hurricaine can do even this far inland.  When Ike hit a couple of years ago it damaged MY house and property and I'm NO WHERE near the coast...

I can think of a worst case senerio... not only are the marshlands in danger, but if a hurricaine hits the coast and washes this crap inland, lakes, rivers, etc could be damaged also.

Everyone is worried about the wildlife and that's commendable (and important - I'm not knocking it by any means), but what about DRINKING water for cities and towns... This could be a major disaster for ALL the southern states.

Some of us sit here 5 or 6 hours away from the "spill" and say, "Oh that's terrible isn't it?" but IMO we should be scared to death.

I don't know what we can do about things (if there is a solution to this problem), but I don't think BP is doing all they can. People are getting mad at the President for not jumping up and down and yelling, but I'd be more upset if he did. You can solve problems a whole lot better if you're calm than if you're emotional...

To Charlie and Steve:

Thank you..... GENTLEMEN!