So, I stumbled across a threaded discussion (elsewhere) wherein a nutritionist was talking about a link between vegetarian/vegan diets and depression (mostly in women, but he was making a blanket statement). He was citing a lack of natural tryptophan in his theory, along with B-12, iron, and some other meat-happy chemicals.

What caught my eye was his assertion that vegetarian diets can interfere with sleep patterns, brain function, serotonin levels, and the hypothalmus. Hmmmm. . .

It got me thinking. My first bout with this crap came a few months after I went total vegetarian. I'm not saying there's a direct corellation at all, but has anyone else had a similar experience? Or has there been any discussion along these lines? Just reaching for something, like we so often do. I'm not going back to eating meat any time soon!

Lieutenant2 wrote on Oct 29^th, 2010 at 3:47pm:

So, I stumbled across a threaded discussion (elsewhere) wherein a nutritionist was talking about a link between vegetarian/vegan diets and depression (mostly in women, but he was making a blanket statement). He was citing a lack of natural tryptophan in his theory, along with B-12, iron, and some other meat-happy chemicals. What caught my eye was his assertion that vegetarian diets can interfere with sleep patterns, brain function, serotonin levels, and the hypothalmus. Hmmmm. . . It got me thinking. My first bout with this crap came a few months after I went total vegetarian. I'm not saying there's a direct corellation at all, but has anyone else had a similar experience? Or has there been any discussion along these lines? Just reaching for something, like we so often do. I'm not going back to eating meat any time soon!

   I'll eat yours.

        Potter

There have been a lot of threads on supplements....vitamins,minerals, testosterone therapy, and of course we all talk about food as triggers for some, but I do not recall having seen anyone with a vegan diet that's managed to ditch CH yet! (not counting Neil who shows up every 3-4 months trying to convince us 3000mg of Vitamin D a day cures CH! ;))

That being said, if any change in your life style decreases either the frequency or the severity of your CH, run with it as long as it carries you!

Joe

Nah, Joe. . .it's actually the other way around! I started on the CH train at roughly the same time I went vegetarian, so I'm sure as hell not finding and relief! I'm not planning to go back to being a carnivore, for other health reasons. . .but this guy was saying that being vegetarian can cause major issues with serotonin, hypothalamus, etc.

I was just wondering if there were any other veg-heads here? No? Beuller? Beuller?

Eat meat or not, you're still a clusterhead.  It isn't the meat or lack thereof.  However, I don't doubt living as a vegan might have implications on other issues.

Man was not designed to be vegan though.  Take a good look at your teeth.  Humans don't have the amount of enamel on their teeth herbivores have. 

Just my $.02 for what it's worth.

Jerry

C'mon, Jerry. . .I was thinking a little deeper than that! As in, lack of tryptophan in a diet leading to CH? Low amounts of B-vitamins, maybe? I'm certainly not going to debate the merits of eating meat / not eating meat here, just wondering if I'm the only vegetarian in the world who started getting CH around the same time he/she stopped eating meat?

But you should pick up a copy of Michael Pollen's book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma", anyway. It's a great read!   :)

I'm a vegetarian CH'er who doesn't buy into the old "look at your teeth" carnivore arguments, but anyway I imagine I'm one of the very few vegetarians here, which is one reason I'm skeptical that it can have any sway on CH.

Otherwise I suppose this place would be full of vegetarians. I never thought for a moment that Potter might be one.  ;D

bejeeber wrote on Oct 29^th, 2010 at 8:24pm:

Otherwise I suppose this place would be full of vegetarians. I never thought for a moment that Potter might be one.  ;D

That ain't lettuce in his freezer... I never knew how much Buffalo meat one could cram into a freezer  :D
_____________________________

Still have CH and I'm Not Vegan or Vegetarian I eat a healthy diet of meats veggies and grains light on the dairy  :P

I was a vegetarian from age 24 to age 30. Full-fledged carnivore before and since. CH started when I was 28.

There might be something to the Vitamin B thing. I posted a thread about vitamin B6 being necessary to the production of melatonin, a precursor for GABA, and how taurine eats up B6. A lot of the B vitamins (like niacin) are part of a chain that is involved in neural health. I take a super B complex every day, and while I don't know if it did anything by itself, in combo with other things I'm not going to stop, it seems to help. Anyway, bite the bullet and and a turkey sandwich and see if you get better. You can always go vegan again later. Or, try the B complex thingie. Blessings! lance

Hey Lieutenant2, if yout're the sort of vegetarian who eats eggs and dairy, there's plenty of B12 to be found there.

And nuts, seeds, beans are the go to items for tryptophan.

I've been thinking a bit about all these little symptoms that might combine to form the perfect storm.

Had my first attack last year at age 32 - and back then was eating meat about 2x / month.  Even though I eat more meat now, this year's cycle was A LOT worse.

I'm slightly hypothyroid, and I just had blood work done during my last CH cycle indicating that I'm also slightly anemic.
Which means that my blood is not able to deliver an adequate amount of oxygen.
Iron, found in meant, helps with this!  Of course, Iron can be found elsewhere.
But I don't doubt that there is a connection between lack of oxygen triggering or causing a suitable environment for an attack. I doubt it causes CH on its own -

Make sure you eat well!  and take good care of yourself.
there's an excellent cookbook that I swear by:
How to Cook Everything Vegetarian
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And actually, a few more about cooking with whole foods which might help:

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Bon Apetite, pain free of course!

Thanks Shuli. . .some excellent info there! I'm especially interested in the stuff on whole foods, I've been trying to go locavore/whole foods as much as possible. So, THANKS!

I also gave a quick thought to possible iron deficiency, so I had bloodwork done (haven't we all?) Everything normal there, and I think my diet is pretty balanced with iron-rich foods.

I seriously don't think I have any nutritional deficiencies at all. I'm in very good physical shape, I feel great, etc. I was just trying to go down the rabbit hole of B6 and tryptophan that was mentioned elsewhere, but I'm probably getting plenty of those, too.

Eh, it was worth a shot!

Hi,

I started CH when I was about 18/19, went vegetarian around 20 (after reading Peter Singer's book 'Animal Liberation' - changed my life  ;)), now 41 and have been eating some fish only since I had my son 8 yrs ago.  I don't know if it affects my CH, they have changed a lot in the past few years - less intense hits/more shadows.  I'm putting that down to better management and maybe just maybe because I'm getting older....

I have suffered from depression in the past but rather than diet I'd have to put that down to life situations and possible family history of depression....   I also suffer from fibromyalgia which is not great - but again have not read anywhere that that is connected to diet....

I think being vegetarian (hard to call myself that these days due to the fish but anyway) produces many more health benefits than deficites - and makes me personally feel better about my global footprint etc etc

Not sure that any of that is helpful to you....  kinda nice to know that there are a couple of other vegies about tho'  :)

Kate

Most vegetarians don't have issues with B vitamins- most are found in grains.  B12 comes from bacteria & is only found in significant quantities in animal products, but the bacteria that produce it is also in healthy soil and even your digestive tract (especially if you happen to be the raw-foodie, eat unwashed organic veggies type.  yuck).

I was a vegetarian for years and I've had some hypothyroid issues that exacerbate my CH  (anything that disrupts sleep makes me worse).  I suspect that the highly processed soy foods inherent in modern vegetarian diets have a lot to do with that.   Soy and cruciferous vegetables block iodine, which prevents the thyroid from working properly.

I've read somewhere that old-fashioned asian vegetarian diets don't have that problem  (the soy is fermented and so many sea vegetables are included that dietary iodine is extremely high), but I can't say I've read any studies to that effect, I think it was probably speculation.  At any rate, few vegetarians eat traditional vegetable-based diets.  Most I know eat a lot of sweets and make very little effort to get the RDA for anything.

Lessee here, I was vegetarian for 4 years starting in high school, then carnivore for 4 years, vegetarian for 6 years after that, carnivore for another 4 years, now back to vegetarianism again.  CH first hit me while I was eating meat and hasn't seemed to change at all with my wacky eating patterns, even when I was flirting with pure veganism.

...and just as a side note for those say "cavemen didn't evolve incisors for eating only veggies", bear in mind early humans had a 50% infant mortality rate and a life expectancy of 35. Living like they did might not be the best idea.

But what percentage of modern humans are carnivores, and what is the modern infant mortality rate? And how much of the infant mortality rate can be linked to diet, both then and now?

One thing we have now that they didn't then is called vaccination. There are many other things we have now as well.

I'm just sayin'....

msussman wrote on Nov 7^th, 2010 at 1:58am:

...and just as a side note for those say "cavemen didn't evolve incisors for eating only veggies", bear in mind early humans had a 50% infant mortality rate and a life expectancy of 35. Living like they did might not be the best idea.

I dunno.  We had a pretty good gig as neolithic, omnivorous hunter-gatherers.  Other than the vagaries associated with weather, big hairy critters, and unfriendly neighbors, it was a pretty good life--three hours effort a day on average satisfied ones needs.  There was a lot of time to relax, make stuff, goof off, and invent intrigues and mayhem.

It wasn't until we began to commit agriculture that things went south on us--hierarchical organizations, poor nutrition, laboring from dawn to dusk for "the man", various and increasingly complicated forms of indenture.  You know the drill.  We even managed to persuade ourselves that it was a good thing to work for some fatcat or another until we dropped, and that we liked it.  Very odd.

Of course it's way too late to do anything about it now.  At this point it'll take some sort of technological deus ex machina to restore any sort of balance to our lives, and those who would lose power over the rest would resist it with every fiber of their being.  We're basically screwed.

Not that any of this has anything to do with whether or not we choose to eat our vegetables.   ;)

Best,

George